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Hey all,
I'm new to the boards here, and relatively new to PF.
I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around an aspect of the Cleric ability "Channel Energy" and hope someone can help. I'm sure this has probably come up before...
Okay, so my cleric 'channels energy'. For the sake of argument, lets say he chooses to channel positive energy, and there are wounded companions, as well as a few undead within the radius of his channeling.
When the positive energy is channeled, do the wounded companions get healing and -at the same time- the undead take damage? Or does he have to choose between healing and harming?
Further, when he rolls his 2D6 chanelling dice, does he roll them once and apply that value to all those affected? Or does he roll separately for each target in the burst radius?
Thanks in advance! I've got a game on Sunday and want to make sure I'm understanding this...
You have to choose to affect living creatures or undead every time you channel energy.
You roll once and apply it to everyone applicable.
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric's level + the cleric's Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channeled energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect. A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.
Also, be aware that if there are wounded allies and also wounded enemies, your channel energy would heal both your allies and your enemies (if they're living and within range) unless you have the Selective Channeling feat.
1. Okay, so my cleric 'channels energy'. For the sake of argument, lets say he chooses to channel positive energy, and there are wounded companions, as well as a few undead within the radius of his channeling.2. When the positive energy is channeled, do the wounded companions get healing and -at the same time- the undead take damage? Or does he have to choose between healing and harming?
3. Further, when he rolls his 2D6 chanelling dice, does he roll them once and apply that value to all those affected? Or does he roll separately for each target in the burst radius?
For clarity sake I answer all your question, even thought others have done it.
1. First of all, remember that a given cleric can only channel either positive or negative energy, which is decided at first level. Maybe you know this, but I wasn't sure since you wrote "chooses to channel positive".
2. He has to choose between healing and harming.
3. You can do it either way around. Making one roll is by far the easiest and fastest. A cleric can end up having channeling energy for 12d6, and there is no reason to have to count those 4 or 5 times.
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Also, be aware that if there are wounded allies and also wounded enemies, your channel energy would heal both your allies and your enemies (if they're living and within range) unless you have the Selective Channeling feat.
This is why taking Selective Channeling is the only feat I consider, at level one, for good or neutral (who choose to channel positive) clerics.
1. First of all, remember that a given cleric can only channel either positive or negative energy, which is decided at first level. Maybe you know this, but I wasn't sure since you wrote "chooses to channel positive".
*cough* Versatile Channeler *cough*
I read the rule a tad different. The only difference, from the answers you have been given above, is in the amount of "positive energy" created. It does not say 1d6 for "each" it simply say's 1d6 per every 2 levels of the caster. It also goes on to further say "...you can only choose whether or not you are affected." This last part of the Normal use of the power is what the debate, in our group, goes on about. Why would a caster not want to be effected by the power? Who would be so unselfish not to take 1d6+ healing if it is available? The acceptable answer, to some of our group, is that the healing must be a pool of energy and not dice per character. So as to mean the Cleric rolls the dice one time and then the energy is absorbed as it is needed.
Example: A cleric uses his Channel Energy to heal a group of 3 people in the radius area. He/she rolls 1d6 and rolls a 6! Good show! The three people that are affected or can be is the Cleric herself (losing 4 HP), a Fighter who has lost 8 hp and a Mage that has lost 2 hp in their recent conflict. Since the Mage is closest to the Cleric it will affect the arcane player first. The Cleric being a kind person elects not to be healed and so the Mage absorbs 2 of the 6 points and then he fighter absorbs the remaining 4 points.
If it were positive energy and affecting Undead the same would be true. 3 skeletons of 4hp points each are hit by the radiating wave of divine energy and the first one would absorb enough energy to disrupt (4hp each) and the next skeleton would absorb 2 points of the six and fight on... the third unaffected by the energy as it dissipates.
Again the only part that makes this seem the plausable ruling is that the caster ahs the choice to be affected or not? Why would that even be important to note if it didnt change the sum of how much someone receives. With the use of "Channel Energy" as a Feat Power the Cleric then has the choice whom he/she heals. In the earlier example the channel energy could have bypassed the Mage and gone directly to the Fighter for all 6 points. Or the Cleric could elect to hit a more powerful Undead being with the damage rather than affect it's minions:)
Why would a caster not want to be effected by the power?
Because that cleric may be channeling negative energy (or channel positive energy, but be of a race with negative energy affinity). Since channeling negative energy actually deals damage rather than heal it, the distinction that the cleric can choose whether or not to include himself in the effect is important.
One of the features of Pathfinder is that any reasonably optimised group is going to have virtually infinite healing. This is, I think, clearly intended if you count the number of 'wands of cure x' handed out in most of the adventure paths. I think like 4E it's tending towards a MMORPG or Dragonage where after each fight the characters get restored to full power. I think the positive channeling is generally a good thing but it does indeed lead to a giant amount of healing being available, particularly at higher levels. (At 1st (let alone 2nd) level, 6d6 total healing, even to every PC, isn't that much really). However, with the ability to swap spells out for healing the main effect of this is to allow the cleric player to do all the necessary healing and still actually cast some spells which aren't healing - in 3.5 pretty well all their spells ended up being Cure X. If it worries you, ambush them with some undead, that'll use up some of the channels. Or ban/limit selective channeling to make it harder to use in combat.
I'm playing D&D since 2nd edition and went trough 3rd, a bit of 3.5 and I did not like 4th that much, basically the reason why we are currently moving on to Pathfinder.
Since 2nd edition, we never took the rule where spellcasters have to choose which spells they are going to cast during the day. Instead, all known spells are available, at any given time, to the spellcasters as long as they have available slots of the correct level just like stated by the rules, only particular components are taken into account also (i.e. 1000 po gem for Augury).
Since spellcasters don't have to choose daily spells means that we never used the "Spontaneous Casting" available to cleric. We never used rules for treasures niehter so objects granted to players have never been let to hazard so there won't be tons of "Wands of cure X" as stated in the "rules" book.
But still, I find that the current "Channel Energy" gives way too much healing available to cleric and I am more and more convinced that this part of the rule will be "ruled out" of my next campaign for reasons stated in my previous post.
Why would anyone even want to play a cleric under these rules? If all spells are available to everyone at all times, play an oracle for more spells. Likewise, there's no reason at all to play a wizard instead of a sorcerer.
You're free to do whatever you want in your own game, and I certainly won't say that you should change. However, once you change the game enough, then you can't draw comparisons from that back to the core rules.
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That commentary aside, how do you define "too much healing"? A Life Oracle has channel energy as well. A paladin can spend lay on hands uses to channel, although it's very inefficient. A 9th level bard can grant someone 2d10 temporary hitpoints (and other buffs), and refresh them or change who benefits from them as a move action. Some parties are just so effective at killing that they never even take damage that matters.
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I think that's such a major change that there's no harm in tinkering/eliminating the cleric channelling. With those rules you've effectively eliminated sorcerers as a class (since Wizards can do what sorcerers do with a better selection of spells) so more changes to tune your game to what you want it to be isn't going to stress anyone. If you get a new player though, make sure they're not ambushed by this.
Nan Bobson, you missunderstood what I said. Spellcasters may choose from their normally available spells and are limited by the number of spells per day, per level, for their repective class.
The only differences with regular rules are the following :
1. Priests and Mages may choose to cast any spell they KNOW as long as they have slots availalbe from the correct spell level.
i.e. A mage level one, that may cast 2 spells per day, that know mage armor, magic missile and alarm don't have to "memorize" his spells. He may choose to cast any of his three spell two times a day when he needs it.
2. Spell components are not taken into account unless they represent a major focus item (holly symbol is an example).
Normally a sorcerer knows a few spells of a given level, but can cast all of them in any combination as needed. A wizard knows (effectively) every spell of a given level, but can only cast a few of them chosen ahead of time. If I understand what you're saying right, sorcerers are unchanged, but wizards can cast any spell in their spellbook spontaneously? But they still have less spells per day?
Or are you saying that both wizards and sorcerers have access to every wiz/sorc spell at all times?
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2. He has to choose between healing and harming.
NITPICK! ;)
(Also, forgive me if this was already mentioned and I missed it.)
You don't choose healing or harming. You choose which type of creature to affect. Then the interaction between the energy type and and the creature type determines whether damage is caused or healed.
Like I said, just a nitpick. :D
It is my understanding that you chose to channel positive or negative energy at character creation. You then pick whether to affect living or undead each time you channel. You heal or harm every affected creature in the area of effect the full Xd6 - rolled once so everyone get the same amount of healing or damage.
The Cleric can omit himself from the burst to avoid harming himself if he would otherwise.
In combat this ability kinda sucks unless you take selective channeling, because by default you would heal your enemies / harm your allies in the burst. Even then you can only omit creatures equal to your Charisma Mod, so you might still catch someone you didn't want to in the burst.
Channeling is a Standard Action so on turns you spend turning that is almost all you do.
You only get so many channels a day. If you take extra channel and selective channel you have used up two feats. Feats are a limited resource.
Those of you who think applying all the healing dice from channel energy to all allies in range is too powerful missed the boat 4 years ago. When this was play tested, I also argued that it was too powerful, but I was greatly outnumbered, and almost everyone disagreed with me. I have since played clerics many times, and I have to agree with them after trying it extensively. It is really not too powerful, and since most times healing while in combat is usually a losing battle (a much better use of the cleric's action would be to use an offensive spell on enemies, or buffing spell for the party), it is generally only an option that clerics use if they are out of other resources.
2. He has to choose between healing and harming.NITPICK! ;)
(Also, forgive me if this was already mentioned and I missed it.)
You don't choose healing or harming. You choose which type of creature to affect. Then the interaction between the energy type and and the creature type determines whether damage is caused or healed.
Like I said, just a nitpick. :D
While I appreciate the attempt to correct an four month old detail, I am not sure I agree.
Seem like the same thing to me:"A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures"
Thus according to text you choose to deal damage to a certain type or to heal another. It is both what I wrote, and what you wrote, not either or.
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While I appreciate the attempt to correct an four month old detail, I am not sure I agree.
Hey, I was bored at the time, alright? ;)
Seem like the same thing to me:
"A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures"
Thus according to text you choose to deal damage to a certain type or to heal another. It is both what I wrote, and what you wrote, not either or.
You are correct that the line you quoted fails to distinguish between our respective descriptions.
However:
Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted.
A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric who worships a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric casts spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric.
Bolded what I'm looking at, italicized what you quoted.
The bit you quoted, as you said, accommodates us both. Meanwhile, the other lines noted above make it clear that the decision at the time of channeling is whom to affect, not what result to produce.
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Been playing pathfinder for awhile and reading through these posts as last night we ran into an issue with Channel Energy. I'd always thought of it as a good cleric that floods the area with positive energy will do at the same time 1d6 to all allies worth of healing while as the same time since it is positive energy, harming undead at the same time and rate if the undead is caught in the burst.
Example: first level cleric wants to help the group as they are fighting skeletons. By channeling positive energy he can heal his living allies 1d6 and deal 1d6 damage to undead due to positive energy. (The reverse is true for evil clerics that want to heal their skeletons while harming enemies, and since can keep himself safe by not hitting himself with the same energy that heals his skeletons)
The selective channel feat seems good if your generally facing living foes such as a necromancer or Evil cleric. I can to this because the description says you pick one energy type. It just seems to make more sense to me. Is this not correct?
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I'd always thought of it as a good cleric that floods the area with positive energy will do at the same time 1d6 to all allies worth of healing while as the same time since it is positive energy, harming undead at the same time and rate if the undead is caught in the burst.
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Is this not correct?
I'm not entirely sure of your question, but your first paragraph is not correct. The cleric must choose either to heal the living or harm the undead. The burst has no effect on the other group.
