Hello,
I may be losing my mind, but I remember reading about some group(s) dedicated to Aroden. Does anyone know where that is?
Thanks!
Most of Aroden's followers joined the church of Iomedae, but there are still some pockets of Arodenite's still out there. You can find information on Aroden's faith in Humans of Golarion.
There are groups that still follow Aroden, though I am not sure what has been written about them. Clerics cannot get powers that way, since he is dead, but other divine classes can still have their powers and say they worship Aroden, since their powers do not have to be deity-dependent on Golarion.
Thanks for the ideas all! I haven't found what I thought I had seen yet. Haven't look at CoT, yet, though.
Even though worshipping Aroden doesn't officially give powers to followers (you could be a Cleric of Aroden, but you will have no spell-casting whatsoever), I think there was a feat in one Forgotten Realms book that allowed you to gain normal Cleric spellcasting and use of domains related to a dead god (like, you're still devoted to him/her and whatever was left of him/her fuels your power). I really liked that idea, and wanted to work it for a homebrew race of mine (an all-female race that decided to venerate Aroden as he almost managed to turn them back from Minotaurs to Humans).
Also, I think there were places for Aroden's worship in Cheliax, Absalom and Taldor.
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It was two Feats, and I believe it was Lost Empires of Faerun. I can't find the book to make sure. One was a prereq that gave you minor bonuses and manybe a 0 level spell like ability or something, an te second let divine casters continue to recieve class features from a dead deity, (under the idea tat deities can not truely ever die, but instead go to a section of the Astral Plane in a coma like state).
Actually, I checked it out now (have my own copy of that book), and it's just one feat. Servant of the Fallen was it's name.
Bingo, found it. The westcrown article in CoT #1, Founders of Aroden.
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Actually, I checked it out now (have my own copy of that book), and it's just one feat. Servant of the Fallen was it's name.
Doesn't it have a prereq, though? I might be thinking of something else?
Of course those were feats for another game system and another world.
In Golarion, clerics of a dead god are looking for either a new patron, or a new line of work.
Not really. It was the exact same in Faerun, and this was a way to get around that. It does the exact thing that the rest of the world that follows Aroden can't. Also note, it doesn't atually mean you get your spells from Aroden. It implies it, but you might (with the Feat) be recieving your powers from some demon/devil to-be-named-later.
If I remember correctly, there was an earlier book (PathFinder) that had something like this occuring with a "Cleric" of Andoran.
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One idea I've heard that I sort of like is that Aroden and Pharasma (who knew about his upcomming death but didn't warn anyone) discoered something of th future, and Aroden sacrificed himself to unshackle mortals from fate, which also screwed up prophecy and destiny for everyone.
But in my games prophecy (real prophecy) is just fine, so it's a non-issue. Whatever happened with Aroden and Pharisma, if it was even them, actually increased prophecy and visions, not destryed it. People just don't understand what the see, or comprehend it's meanings fully.
Another is that Aroden isn't dead. Maybe he was never an actual (true) deity, and the test of the Star Stone is not permanent. Maybe he decided t step down. Maybe (like in Greyhawk's past) he is just locked away (like maybe in an atheist country that fears deities coming tere and setting things straight or in Cheliax).
Consider this a hypothetical example (it's a real example from my homebrew Golarion campaign, but that's beside the point).
Level 20 cleric of Aroden pledges his soul to keep evil at bay, being granted immortality in return for being a lonely guardian over a particularly dangerous item. Things go swimmingly for several centuries until...Aroden dies. Cleric loses his divine powers but is still a 20th level cleric.
Assuming they wanted to convert to another religion (say, Iomedae), is it a simple process or more involved? Just curious what others think. Would the gods jealously covet such a follower, or is a high level cleric not such a big deal in Golarion?
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Beckett, I am reasonably sure that if Aroden had been alive and anywhere near Cheliax after That Dark Day, the Chelaxians would have moved heaven and earth to get him freed and restored to his power.
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Does Aroden strike anybody as the kind of god who'd sacrifice himself?
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Cui bono? Who received the lion's share of Aroden's faithful?
Who find her worship doubled and trebled as a response to the threats of the Worldwound and Cheliax's diabolism? Who Who acts for humanity in the cause of righteousness, without a Lawful Neutral god to stand as our patron?
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Beckett, I am reasonably sure that if Aroden had been alive and anywhere near Cheliax after That Dark Day, the Chelaxians would have moved heaven and earth to get him freed and restored to his power.
Maybe House Thrune and Asmodeus are he only ones that know? Wasn't Asmodeus just a super devil until around this point? :)
Does Aroden strike anybody as the kind of god who'd sacrifice himself?
Maybe he foresaw a much worse future. As others have pointed out, what has he really done "as the deity of humanity" in the last few hundred years? Not much. Maybe his ignoring of that aspect of his portfolio was lost after not using it for so long?
Cui bono? Who received the lion's share of Aroden's faithful?
Who find her worship doubled and trebled as a response to the threats of the Worldwound and Cheliax's diabolism? Who Who acts for humanity in the cause of righteousness, without a Lawful Neutral god to stand as our patron?
Who indeed. . .?
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Consider this a hypothetical example (it's a real example from my homebrew Golarion campaign, but that's beside the point).
Level 20 cleric of Aroden pledges his soul to keep evil at bay, being granted immortality in return for being a lonely guardian over a particularly dangerous item. Things go swimmingly for several centuries until...Aroden dies. Cleric loses his divine powers but is still a 20th level cleric.
Assuming they wanted to convert to another religion (say, Iomedae), is it a simple process or more involved? Just curious what others think. Would the gods jealously covet such a follower, or is a high level cleric not such a big deal in Golarion?
Keep in mind that most of this happened nearly a hundred years ago, so said Cleric might be nearly dead by now himself. However, I would imagine, for a few years afterwards, most related churches (Asmodeus, Imodae, Abadar, and possibly Irori) would wait, not knowing what is really going on. Once the idea the Aroden is not comming back, I would imagine that (especially Imodae and Asmodeus) they would try to recruite said Cleric as a fairly high priority.
Beckett, The big A has been a god for a long, long time. Since before the age of darkness at lest.
As for the cleric, well Iomedae would have taken him as long as he accepted her as Arodens sucesser
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Actually, I checked it out now (have my own copy of that book), and it's just one feat. Servant of the Fallen was it's name.
Why take a feat when you be cleric of ideal.
a small number dedicate
themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such
as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deif ic
abstraction.
It was a Forgotten realms Feat, and in FR you can't be a Cleric of an ideal.Yeah but this Glorian (Sp?) where you're allowed to be a Cleric of an ideal. Why not model your ideals to be similar dogma to a church of Aroden.
You are not. In Golarion you must have a god to be of the cleric class. So no you can not be a cleric of an idea in Golarion
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You are not. In Golarion you must have a god to be of the cleric class. So no you can not be a cleric of an idea in GolarionIt was a Forgotten realms Feat, and in FR you can't be a Cleric of an ideal.Yeah but this Glorian (Sp?) where you're allowed to be a Cleric of an ideal. Why not model your ideals to be similar dogma to a church of Aroden.
I'm not doubting you but I would like to know were you got the info from.
Very true. I was going off of the idea that Imodea was very uncomfortable taking Aroden's place, according to most sources, and Pharasma is known for not telling anyone about Aroden's death, even his or her followers, so I woud imagine that no one would realize he was dead for some time.
I think it was known extremely quickly that he had gone bye-bye, since the Eye of Abendago (a gigantic, persistent hurricane) and the Worldwound (a permanent rift to the Abyss) were among the immediate by-products of his death.
In other words, as written, Aroden's death immediately rocked the world. Of course, if you want to change it so that it took months or even years before those events happened, you certainly can.
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I think the byproducts where immediate, but that doesn't mean that people (or deities) automatically knew he was dead. Some did, but Pharasma is noted as knowing but not telling. It could go either way, but we ddo know that Imodae did not immediately try to takeover in his place.
As far as all Clerics in Golarion must have deities, that is part of the official (sort of) assumption for the setting. It doesn't say that anywhere except in PF Society play, so feel free to ignor it as many do. Alo, if you are just going from the Core book, Pharasma hates undead despite her Domains. :)
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I'm not doubting you but I would like to know were you got the info from.You are not. In Golarion you must have a god to be of the cleric class. So no you can not be a cleric of an idea in GolarionIt was a Forgotten realms Feat, and in FR you can't be a Cleric of an ideal.Yeah but this Glorian (Sp?) where you're allowed to be a Cleric of an ideal. Why not model your ideals to be similar dogma to a church of Aroden.
I'm not doubting you but I would like to know were you got the info from.
One of the links above states it, its been said loudly and often enough it is in fact official. The 3.5 setting book makes it clear but doesn't come out and say it, the new book was suppose to say it clearly I am not sure what happened in that it does not.
As I posted in that thread also, here are the relevant quotes from the Inner Sea World Guide about the cleric having a deity:
From page 235 of the Inner Sea World Guide:
False gods and dead gods cannot grant spells to clerics, but other divine spellcasting classes (such as druids or oracles) who gain their power from other sources, rather than directly from the gods, can serve these forces as champions or cultists.
and from page 236:
Clerics who follow a philosophy must select a patron deity among the philosophy’s associated religions (they gain no additional benefits from adherence to a philosophy).
Ah cool they did make it a bit clearer.
Regarding the hypothetical example I posted above, the cleric is immortal (he does not age) and he has (in my homebrew) been around for nearly 1,000 years in fact. It has only recently come to light that he has been godless for the past 100 years (don't ask) and I'm wondering if it's a simple thing to be indoctrinated into a new religion or if it would take some time (weeks, months, years?).
My perspective is that it would take some time to re-educate the cleric. His high level of ability would make things go quicker than if it was a regular layperson, but it would still take some time. Iomedae makes the most sense, for sure, as a viable alternative. Thanks for the thoughts!
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There is no official answer. Officially, yes, Clerics can switch faiths (as we know that most of Aroden's followers, including both Clerics and Paladins id so). As for the rest, that's really up to the DM, and should mostly be based on the circumstances for those last hundred years, and those last 1,000 years.
Honestly, I think Abadar is much closer than Imodae. Aroden and Abadar are bot LN deities of civiization, advancment, and order. I just find it odd that said Cleric would remain immortal after Arodens death, unless the two are not relatd (as I assume).