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Have you ever considered to remove the differences between Arcane and Divine magics in your game, basically making them the same thing?
How would you handle :
- Classes ?
- Armor penalty to casting ?
I can't think of a simple idea to make this happend in my game gameplay-wise, or the explanations for "why can't a wizard cast a cure spell" type of question...
Your help would be appreciated.
PS. excuse me for the possibles grammar/syntax errors in my posts, english isn't my first langage.
-K
In Unearthed Arcana (3.5) they had a generic spellcaster who cast spells as a sorcerer, but with access to all spell lists to choose their spells from. They had to choose weather they were arcane or divine at first level, which modified which class ability feats they could get.
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I would make spell failure either apply to all casting, or remove it completely.
I would also recommend paying close attention to the spells your players choose. Experienced players will be able to pick all the right spells to be much more effective than their level might suggest. Gentleman agreements may be needed.
One solution is to make all casters spontaneous, so that the ability to choose all the good spells is limited by the number of spells they can know.
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@Kierato : thanks, I'll take a look if I can get my hand on a copy of UA. But I was looking for a more PF-balanced solution. And as I understand it, it doesn't solve the problem because you'll eventually have to chose between arcane or divine.
@TOZ : for spell failure, I was thinking about apply it to everyone, and having feats/class features to reduce the %. About optimization, my players aren't really into it, so no worry at the moment ! I like the idea of the spontaneous caster.
the distinction is no longer about arcane vs divine. The bard, the witch, and the summoner pretty much eliminate the distinction between what is arcane and what is divine.
The issue is what should any single class be able to do. If you let any one class cast EVERY spell, it would be too powerful. Its not a matter of not letting a wizard cast cure spells, its about finding limitations that make sense within the theme to keep things balanced.
If you are looking for ways to have a mix of wizard and cleric spells in the same character there are 2 3rd party classes by super genius games, the Magus (not the ultimate magic one this product was released before that anouncement) and the Mosaic Mage. And in the most recent issue of kobold quarterly there is the white necromancer class.
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the distinction is no longer about arcane vs divine. The bard, the witch, and the summoner pretty much eliminate the distinction between what is arcane and what is divine.
Agreed, but the bard and the witch are still considered arcane caster (can't remember for the summoner, but I guess he's arcane too). So in term of game mechanic, they are still (partially ) vulnerable to arcane caster problems such as casting failure.
The issue is what should any single class be able to do. If you let any one class cast EVERY spell, it would be too powerful. Its not a matter of not letting a wizard cast cure spells, its about finding limitations that make sense within the theme to keep things balanced.
What if grant acces to spells of other lists that are one level lower than the maximum level spell that you can cast. For exemple, a level 1 sorcerer, which as access to spells level 0 and 1, could take any cleric spells of level 0 as if they were in is own spell list. He couldn't do the same for the level 1 spells, until he has acces to level 2 sorcerer's spells.
The issue is what should any single class be able to do. If you let any one class cast EVERY spell, it would be too powerful. Its not a matter of not letting a wizard cast cure spells, its about finding limitations that make sense within the theme to keep things balanced.What if grant acces to spells of other lists that are one level lower than the maximum level spell that you can cast. For exemple, a level 1 sorcerer, which as access to spells level 0 and 1, could take any cleric spells of level 0 as if they were in is own spell list. He couldn't do the same for the level 1 spells, until he has acces to level 2 sorcerer's spells.
That is still an increase in power. For casters versatility means power. The supergenius magus casts as a sorceror, and can do precisely that (sort of) but it has considerably less in the way of class features then what the sorceror gets for bloodlines.
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I don't think it will solve the problem.
What Kolokotroni is trying to say to say here is that the biggest your spell selection is, the more powerfull you can be if you choose the right spells. It doesn't matter if buy a couple of extra spells if you take the right choices at the right time.
Am I right, Kolokotroni ?
I played in a 3.x game where we had three classes: Warrior, Spellcaster and Specialist. The names basically tell you what they did. It was not gamebreaking because no one at the table was trying to break the game. A lot of the issue with expanding spell lists is that a lot of groups have that one person at the table whose idea of fun is to do everything all the time better than everyone else. This person is why on any given day there are debates over if the Rogue is a gimp, if the Fighter can compete after level 8, if the Monk is a waste of everyone's time, why the Paladin is so great etc.
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I played in a 3.x game where we had three classes: Warrior, Spellcaster and Specialist. The names basically tell you what they did. It was not gamebreaking because no one at the table was trying to break the game. A lot of the issue with expanding spell lists is that a lot of groups have that one person at the table whose idea of fun is to do everything all the time better than everyone else. This person is why on any given day there are debates over if the Rogue is a gimp, if the Fighter can compete after level 8, if the Monk is a waste of everyone's time, why the Paladin is so great etc.
I should definitely take a look at those 3 classes (they're in UA, right ?), but I think I'll miss a lot of the Pathfinder gravy.
I feel concerned by what you said, because of my actual group, I'm the one who is more into optimization for performance.
Have you looked at the spellcasting classes from Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved?