First +1 weapon should be about level 4~5.
+2 should be about 7.
+3 should be about 9~11.
+4 should be about 12.
After that it really starts accelerating.
Generally I add them at about the same level that the PCs could make them.
+1 weapons are available at level 3ish
+2 weapons are available at level 6ish
+3 weapons are available at level 9ish
+4 weapons are available at level 12ish
+5 weapons are available at level 15ish
I do it somewhat similar to Bob_Loblaw but accelerate it a bit faster.
+1 = level 3 (roundabouts)
+2 = level 6
+3 = level 9
+4 = level 11
+5 = level 13
+6 = level 15
+7 = level 16
+8 = level 18
+9 = level 19-20
+10 = level 20 (if then)
Reading this makes me sad... I'm 6th level and still wielding a non-enhanced masterwork weapon and a mithral chain shirt (which ate up a lot of my resources three levels ago, and I still have no gp). My last splurge was a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword, which I had to borrow gp from other players to even get in the first place. Besides a cloak of resistance +1, I don't even have any magic items. It's not a low magic campaign either.
At my level, I would expect to at least have some +1 stuff (that I can actually use) thrown my way, or be able to upgrade my current equipment to +1 stuff. As it is, even with the gp I will be coming into shortly, I will barely be able to afford some new +1 equipment.
Reading this makes me sad... I'm 6th level and still wielding a non-enhanced masterwork weapon and a mithral chain shirt (which ate up a lot of my resources three levels ago, and I still have no gp). My last splurge was a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword, which I had to borrow gp from other players to even get in the first place. Besides a cloak of resistance +1, I don't even have any magic items. It's not a low magic campaign either.
At my level, I would expect to at least have some +1 stuff (that I can actually use) thrown my way, or be able to upgrade my current equipment to +1 stuff. As it is, even with the gp I will be coming into shortly, I will barely be able to afford some new +1 equipment.
Keep in mind that we are talking about our own campaigns. If your GM is keeping in mind that you don't have magic items or much cash for gear and creates encounters based on that, then there isn't much to worry about.
In the campaign I'm running, the party was pretty starved for gear and cash for the first 5 to 6 levels. They did just fine. I am running Age of Worms adventure path which has a lot of need for magic items as the party progresses. They just had to figure out how to handle things on their own for a few levels.
Reading this makes me sad... I'm 6th level and still wielding a non-enhanced masterwork weapon and a mithral chain shirt (which ate up a lot of my resources three levels ago, and I still have no gp). My last splurge was a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword, which I had to borrow gp from other players to even get in the first place. Besides a cloak of resistance +1, I don't even have any magic items. It's not a low magic campaign either.
At my level, I would expect to at least have some +1 stuff (that I can actually use) thrown my way, or be able to upgrade my current equipment to +1 stuff. As it is, even with the gp I will be coming into shortly, I will barely be able to afford some new +1 equipment.
you could have bought 2 +1 weapons and a +1 chain shirt for the price of that mithral chain shirt, seems fine to me
Generally I add them at about the same level that the PCs could make them.
+1 weapons are available at level 3ish
+2 weapons are available at level 6ish
+3 weapons are available at level 9ish
+4 weapons are available at level 12ish
+5 weapons are available at level 15ish
This is the guideline I go by as well. But really it's just when they can afford them, either in cash or in cash/time to craft.
There's no hard fast rule, but yeah a +1 every 3-4 levels is probably about right. This doesn't really take into considerations additional enhancements though. I don't see a +1 Keen Flaming Longsword to be out of place on a 7th level character, even when looking at its total enhancement it breaks the curve.
Generally I add them at about the same level that the PCs could make them.
+1 weapons are available at level 3ish
+2 weapons are available at level 6ish
+3 weapons are available at level 9ish
+4 weapons are available at level 12ish
+5 weapons are available at level 15ishThis is the guideline I go by as well. But really it's just when they can afford them, either in cash or in cash/time to craft.
There's no hard fast rule, but yeah a +1 every 3-4 levels is probably about right. This doesn't really take into considerations additional enhancements though. I don't see a +1 Keen Flaming Longsword to be out of place on a 7th level character, even when looking at its total enhancement it breaks the curve.
+1
you could have bought 2 +1 weapons and a +1 chain shirt for the price of that mithral chain shirt, seems fine to meReading this makes me sad... I'm 6th level and still wielding a non-enhanced masterwork weapon and a mithral chain shirt (which ate up a lot of my resources three levels ago, and I still have no gp). My last splurge was a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword, which I had to borrow gp from other players to even get in the first place. Besides a cloak of resistance +1, I don't even have any magic items. It's not a low magic campaign either.
At my level, I would expect to at least have some +1 stuff (that I can actually use) thrown my way, or be able to upgrade my current equipment to +1 stuff. As it is, even with the gp I will be coming into shortly, I will barely be able to afford some new +1 equipment.
A mithril chain shirt is 1100 gp and is automatically considered masterwork. A +1 weapon is 2,300 gp minimum. A +1 chain shirt is 1150 gp minimum (50 gp more than a mithril chain shirt).
I believe you are mistaken.
Depends on the type of game I'm running.
Normally I drop a +1 weapon for the prime beater around level 3; the other combat types will see em around level 4 or 5.
I tend to repeat this model every four or five levels. Each progression gets a + to the modifier. I tend to allow time for crafting though so giving out magic to early cuts into the value of crafting feats.
I also drop a fair bit of custom treasure, including charged magical weapons and have a fondness for intelligent items that have their own desires and potent abilities that complicate PC lives. Intelligent items and legacy weapons that become progressively more powerful over time are an easy way to adjust party power on the fly without cheating anyone.
you could have bought 2 +1 weapons and a +1 chain shirt for the price of that mithral chain shirt, seems fine to meReading this makes me sad... I'm 6th level and still wielding a non-enhanced masterwork weapon and a mithral chain shirt (which ate up a lot of my resources three levels ago, and I still have no gp). My last splurge was a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword, which I had to borrow gp from other players to even get in the first place. Besides a cloak of resistance +1, I don't even have any magic items. It's not a low magic campaign either.
At my level, I would expect to at least have some +1 stuff (that I can actually use) thrown my way, or be able to upgrade my current equipment to +1 stuff. As it is, even with the gp I will be coming into shortly, I will barely be able to afford some new +1 equipment.
A mithril chain shirt is 1100 gp and is automatically considered masterwork. A +1 weapon is 2,300 gp minimum. A +1 chain shirt is 1150 gp minimum (50 gp more than a mithril chain shirt).
I believe you are mistaken.
Thanks, Ashiel. Also, I very well could have bought a +1 chain shirt. It was mithral instead because my character is a gish, so I need 0% spell failure (with Arcane Armor Training). My main point here is that in six levels, all I have been able to purchase is that mithral chain shirt and a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword. Since part of the OP's question was asking when I expect to have +1 weapons, my expectation is... before 6th level. I would've had to save all my money up until now to even afford a decent +1 weapon. Since the norm seems to be about 3rd level, I am disappointed, regardless of how my GM goes about it.
As others have said about the same level that they could make them. There is a very good book that came out at the end of 3.5 era called "Magic Item Compendium" if you can get a hold of a copy the appendix has a good breakdown of when each type of magic item should be found. It also has a lot of good ideas for new items, set items (like diablo style), and other good stuff.
Paizo should publish "Ultimate Magic Items" or something like it and give much better breakdown of wealth by level and how it should be used, when should items be handed out ect... I also love the idea of Legendary weapons from 3.5, items that grew with you as you leveled a retooling of that idea with example weapons from Golarion would be welcome.
Thanks, Ashiel. Also, I very well could have bought a +1 chain shirt. It was mithral instead because my character is a gish, so I need 0% spell failure (with Arcane Armor Training). My main point here is that in six levels, all I have been able to purchase is that mithral chain shirt and a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword. Since part of the OP's question was asking when I expect to have +1 weapons, my expectation is... before 6th level. I would've had to save all my money up until now to even afford a decent +1 weapon. Since the norm seems to be about 3rd level, I am disappointed, regardless of how my GM goes about it.you could have bought 2 +1 weapons and a +1 chain shirt for the price of that mithral chain shirt, seems fine to meReading this makes me sad... I'm 6th level and still wielding a non-enhanced masterwork weapon and a mithral chain shirt (which ate up a lot of my resources three levels ago, and I still have no gp). My last splurge was a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword, which I had to borrow gp from other players to even get in the first place. Besides a cloak of resistance +1, I don't even have any magic items. It's not a low magic campaign either.
At my level, I would expect to at least have some +1 stuff (that I can actually use) thrown my way, or be able to upgrade my current equipment to +1 stuff. As it is, even with the gp I will be coming into shortly, I will barely be able to afford some new +1 equipment.
A mithril chain shirt is 1100 gp and is automatically considered masterwork. A +1 weapon is 2,300 gp minimum. A +1 chain shirt is 1150 gp minimum (50 gp more than a mithril chain shirt).
I believe you are mistaken.
Truthfully my players tend to stay fairly close to Wealth by Level. Not necessarily continuously, but if they begin to fall behind they will usually hit a windfall during an adventure. Most of the treasures I pass out tend to pass out are generally custom items, along with treasure they can convert into magic items (via purchasing or crafting).
On average, I'd say my group will generally have easy access to a +1 weapon prior to 6th level, a +2 possibly by 8th or 9th, and so forth. At a certain point they can just buy +2 weapons in stores, but that's about as high as it goes just purchasing it. Greater weapons are gained via item crafting, or through adventuring or as rewards for adventuring.
The core rulebook supports weapons up to +2, armors up to +3, stat boosters up to +4, and up to +4 resistance items, at metropolises. You'd probably be able to arm yourself decently fairly early on just on gold and treasures you found, with more impressive stuff being a little trickier to get, depending on your resources and activities.
WBL seems to be a more common discussion point in one of my groups since many of the players began using automated character sheets like Hero Lab which calculate the PC's wealth.
As Paraxis said, the MIC had some useful charts on item levels. If you have that book you might want to refer to Table 6-3 on page 226. Per that table, masterwork weapons should be available at 2nd level, +1 armor at 4th level, and a +1 weapon at 6th level. By this progression submit2me's equipment sounds about right as long as a +1 weapon comes along soon.
Pathfinder has slightly higher WBL than 3.5 did, so it might be reasonable for magic items to appear a little earlier. My preference would be something like a +1 per 3 levels starting at 5th level (when you can start crafting magic weapons).
Incidentally, I'm actually attempting to use Legacy Items in one of my current Pathfinder games. Maybe I'll start a separate thread on that though.
Reading this makes me sad... I'm 6th level and still wielding a non-enhanced masterwork weapon and a mithral chain shirt (which ate up a lot of my resources three levels ago, and I still have no gp). My last splurge was a masterwork, alchemical silver greatsword, which I had to borrow gp from other players to even get in the first place. Besides a cloak of resistance +1, I don't even have any magic items. It's not a low magic campaign either.
At my level, I would expect to at least have some +1 stuff (that I can actually use) thrown my way, or be able to upgrade my current equipment to +1 stuff. As it is, even with the gp I will be coming into shortly, I will barely be able to afford some new +1 equipment.
Keep in mind that we are talking about our own campaigns. If your GM is keeping in mind that you don't have magic items or much cash for gear and creates encounters based on that, then there isn't much to worry about.
In the campaign I'm running, the party was pretty starved for gear and cash for the first 5 to 6 levels. They did just fine. I am running Age of Worms adventure path which has a lot of need for magic items as the party progresses. They just had to figure out how to handle things on their own for a few levels.
I'm playing in a 3.5 game where my guys is 5th level with a bit under 4k in gear, plus some alchemical weaponry. The other party members are similar. Last night we had to face off against a huge spider (poisoned the hell out of me and one other) and a bulette, in a torrential downpour that caused concealment and rough terrain. We somehow survived. WBL be damned!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For a primary melee or ranged combatant who uses a single weapon, I think it's typical to invest about half of your wealth on your primary weapon. A two-weapon fighter or switch hitter will probably invest the same amount or a little more in order to get two weapons of slightly lower power.
.
Wealth by Level:
2 ... 1,000
3 ... 3,000 .... 2,000 .... +1
4 ... 6,000
5 ... 10,500
6 ... 16,000 ... 8,000 .... +2
7 ... 23,500
8 ... 33,000
9 ... 46,000 ... 18,000 ... +3
10 .. 62,000 ... 32,000 ... +4
11 .. 82,000
12 .. 108,000 .. 50,000 ... +5
13 .. 140,000 .. 72,000 ... +6
14 .. 185,000 .. 98,000 ... +7
15 .. 240,000 .. 128,000 .. +8
16 .. 315,000 .. 162,000 .. +9
17 .. 410,000 .. 200,000 .. +10
18 .. 530,000
19 .. 685,000
20 .. 880,000
For me it's always depended on the setting. If I used one of the established settings such as the Realms, Dragonlance, or Darksun, the first magic weapons and armors start showing up as:
+1 at ~Level 5 or 6
+2 ~ Level 10 or 11
After that the group gets powerful enough that they make their own.
In my own homebrew campaign setting magical weapons, even +1 weapons are rare to the point of being considered artifacts. Yes I do still throw typical monsters at the group. They just have to be much more clever to win, or if they're smart, avoid modern day gamer dogma that the adventurers are heroes and actually see running away as an option.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've been running the numbers on this using Pathfinder's Wealth By Level Chart and the accompanying text which suggests the value of a PC's gear should be about 25% in weapons, 25% in armor, 25% in miscellaneous magic, 15% in consumable magic, and 10% in mundane gear and coins.
Based on that distribution, a PC could have:
masterwork weapon: 3rd level
+1 weapon: 5th level
+2 weapon: 8th to 9th level
+3 weapon: 11th level
+4 weapon: 13th level
+5 weapon: 15th level
I've also run the numbers for armor, and cleric, druid, or wizard created potions, scrolls, and wands.
masterwork armor: 2nd level (chain shirt or less) to 5th level (full plate)
+1 armor: 4th level (banded mail or less) to 6th level (full plate)
+2 armor: 7th level
+3 armor: 9th level
+4 armor: 11th level
+5 armor: 12th level
1st level spell: 2nd level
2nd level spell: 3rd level
3rd level spell: 4th level
0-level spell: 2nd level
1st level spell: 2nd level
2nd level spell: 2nd level
3rd level spell: 3rd level
4th level spells: 4th level
5th level spells: 5th level
6th level spells: 6th level
7th level spells: 6th level
8th level spells: 7th level
9th level spells: 8th level
1st level spell: 4th level
2nd level spell: 8th level
3rd level spell: 11th level
4th level spells: 13th level