Im taking the Maneuver master archetype with my Dwarven Monk and Flurry of Maneuvers replaces flurry of blows.
1. My question is can I make a melee attack and a combat maneuver in the same round using this class ability? It says "At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action".
2. If not can u choose to keep your flurry of blows and make a combat maneuver followed up by an melee attack since you get two attacks per round, with penalties (-2).
3. Also, I need to know if a monk could use the double-chained kama as his chosen monk weapon since a kama is listed as such a weapon?
Numbered for convience
1. No you lose the ability to make multiple attacks around.2. No archetypes repalce features and those replacements are not optional.
3.if you take exotic weapon profiency.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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That's not the way I read it.
Here is the full ability for reference:
At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces flurry of blows.
As far as I can tell, the Maneuver Master makes a full attack, plus he gets a combat maneuver. There don't seem to be any limits on what sort of things he can do with his full attack so long as the extra attack is a combat maneuver. The name of the ability and phrase "additional combat maneuver" sort of implies it's all combat maneuvers, but I don't think it follows that it must be all maneuvers. It's particularly weird since at higher levels the monk might be mixing combat maneuvers and melee attacks regardless.
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Also, another peice of evidence that verifies this logic I found in the text of the monk's flurry of blows. It says "A monk may substitute disarm, sunder and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows". since flurry of blows and flurry of maneuvers have identical wording I would have to say you can substitute.
No, that logic doesn't work. Flurry of Blows and Flurry of Maneuvers are two completely separate class features - separate enough that the latter replaces the former. The maneuver master gets Flurry of Maneuvers and that's it. Anything not in the description of FoM is not part of FoM. You can't just "port" things in from FoB just because they have similar names.
Again, FoM replaces FoB. It doesn't modify it, or add to it, or supplement it. It replaces it. If your monk is a maneuver master, you don't get any of the rules of FoB.
Also, another peice of evidence that verifies this logic I found in the text of the monk's flurry of blows. It says "A monk may substitute disarm, sunder and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows". since flurry of blows and flurry of maneuvers have identical wording I would have to say you can substitute.No, that logic doesn't work. Flurry of Blows and Flurry of Maneuvers are two completely separate class features - separate enough that the latter replaces the former. The maneuver master gets Flurry of Maneuvers and that's it. Anything not in the description of FoM is not part of FoM. You can't just "port" things in from FoB just because they have similar names.
Again, FoM replaces FoB. It doesn't modify it, or add to it, or supplement it. It replaces it. If your monk is a maneuver master, you don't get any of the rules of FoB.
True, but one can substitute disarm, trip, and sunder freely for attacks anyway, by the nature of those particular maneuvers.
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True, but one can substitute disarm, trip, and sunder freely for attacks anyway, by the nature of those particular maneuvers.Also, another peice of evidence that verifies this logic I found in the text of the monk's flurry of blows. It says "A monk may substitute disarm, sunder and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows". since flurry of blows and flurry of maneuvers have identical wording I would have to say you can substitute.No, that logic doesn't work. Flurry of Blows and Flurry of Maneuvers are two completely separate class features - separate enough that the latter replaces the former. The maneuver master gets Flurry of Maneuvers and that's it. Anything not in the description of FoM is not part of FoM. You can't just "port" things in from FoB just because they have similar names.
Again, FoM replaces FoB. It doesn't modify it, or add to it, or supplement it. It replaces it. If your monk is a maneuver master, you don't get any of the rules of FoB.
Yes, by the nature of those maneuvers. Not because of FoB wording. Which was my point. (Note that I did not contest the claim that those maneuvers could be substituted, I just said his logic didn't work.)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Again, FoM replaces FoB. It doesn't modify it, or add to it, or supplement it. It replaces it. If your monk is a maneuver master, you don't get any of the rules of FoB.
Exactly which part of Flurry of Maneuvers says you are limited to maneuvers only and cannot make a melee attack?
At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action".
At least at first level i would say that word i bolded.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action".At least at first level i would say that word i bolded.
Actually, I mentioned that above. I see where you are coming from, but I don't think it really requires it, it certainly doesn't prohibit mixing maneuvers and melee attacks if you have more than one attack in your full round attack.
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Again, FoM replaces FoB. It doesn't modify it, or add to it, or supplement it. It replaces it. If your monk is a maneuver master, you don't get any of the rules of FoB.Exactly which part of Flurry of Maneuvers says you are limited to maneuvers only and cannot make a melee attack?
It does not appear to me that Jiggy is making that claim.
= = = = = = = = = =
Everyone: YOU DO NOT GET TO FLURRY attacks IF YOU ARE A MANEUVER MASTER.
(You get additional maneuvers while making a full-attack. It's similar to, but not the same as, a Flurry in which substitute some of the attacks for maneuvers.)
Note that nothing implies that a Maneuver Master cannot take TWF/ITWF/etc.
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It does not appear to me that Jiggy is making that claim.Again, FoM replaces FoB. It doesn't modify it, or add to it, or supplement it. It replaces it. If your monk is a maneuver master, you don't get any of the rules of FoB.Exactly which part of Flurry of Maneuvers says you are limited to maneuvers only and cannot make a melee attack?
Thank you.
All I was actually saying is that FoM is its own ability - you don't take FoB and then make a couple of tweaks. You start from scratch.