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Hello, I've recently decided to get into a tabletop rpg after playing smaller tabletop dungeon games like heroquest, descent, etc. I've joined a group locally with a friend, and we're about to jump in with them at 6th level during The Serpents Skull campaign. My friend and I were given a 24 point buy out system, the ok for all paizo publications for character development excluding third party content, and an ass load of reading :p
I've read some guides on wizard, and have found Treantmonk's ( http://sites.google.com/site/mattspathfinder/extras/community-creations/tre atmonks-lab/test )to be really good and helpful, the whole "God Wizard" bit. I usually play spellcasters in any game that i'm playing, and I know that blasting isn't the most effective wizard. That out of the way.... Now here are my questions :(
1) CRB tells me as an Elf Wizard at 6th level I am proficient with club, dagger, quarterstaff, heavy crossbow, light crossbow yadda yadda. Does this mean I am incapable of equipping and using other weapons/tools? I was reading Treantmonk's Guide and he was telling me about "Headband of Vast Int" and "Rod of Metamagic Extend, Lesser", "Rod of Metamagic Silent, lesser" and "Rod of Metamaic Quicken, lesser", "Crystal Ball" and "Small shield, Mithril" etc, etc.
Can someone explain to me, or point me in the right direction as to how I can make use of these items? As of right now 6th level Elf Wizard I am to believe I can not equip any armor, and can not use any weapons or weapon like items other than listed in the proficient list under Wizard in CRB.
2) How useful is Alchemy and item creation feats? Will I need to brew myself and party members potions? Create magic and wondrous items for them? I've never actually sat down and played a session with a DM, and the group I've linked up with are about 10-20 years older than I am (I'm 25) and I don't want to be wasting their time. I've been trying to find guides online, but I don't want to rely on them. I love getting inside scoop from players themselves, rather than a "DO THIS" guide.
3) Permanent spells. What should I keep in my spellbook on hand (other than my obvious specialization spells) and what should I look at becoming permanent, if this is at all even useful, which I believe to be based on what I've read from the books. My school focus is Divination, and I'm going to be pulling mainly from Conjuration, Divination, Transmutation, and Illusion. With a couple blasts just as a back up (maybe one or two.)
I believe that's all that I have, and I thank anyone who has taken the time to read this hodgepodge of Wizard question dumping. Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated. You can respond here, or email personally if you feel like taking a moderately skilled Wizard under your wing ;)
Thanks!
- Zach, zfpayne@gmail.com
Elves get elven weapon proficiencies also.
You can wear any armor you want but spells that have somatic components will be subject to arcane spell failure based on which specific armor you have.
Your GM will specify how he/she wants you to handle starting equipment, headband of vast int boots your primary casting stat making your spells harder to resist and giving you bonus spells per the bonus spells chart. All of the specific items are listed in the core rulebook and also in the pfsrd.
You can use any weapon you want, you would just suffer non proficiency penalties.
The usefulness of crafting feats and permanent spells will be tied to the availability of in game funds and time, as well as personal preference.
1) CRB tells me as an Elf Wizard at 6th level I am proficient with club, dagger, quarterstaff, heavy crossbow, light crossbow yadda yadda. Does this mean I am incapable of equipping and using other weapons/tools? I was reading Treantmonk's Guide and he was telling me about "Headband of Vast Int" and "Rod of Metamagic Extend, Lesser", "Rod of Metamagic Silent, lesser" and "Rod of Metamaic Quicken, lesser", "Crystal Ball" and "Small shield, Mithril" etc, etc.
The proficiencies you mention are your weapon proficiencies, as it what weapons you can use without penalty. Everything else you list, aside from the shield, are rods or wondrous items. Anybody can use them, as they don't require proficiencies. The shield you can use without having the proficiency, but take a slight penalty to do so, though as a wizard, that penalty may or may not be a hindrance. You can also use any weapons not listed, but take a penalty to use them.
I've read some guides on wizard, and have found Treantmonk's ( http://sites.google.com/site/mattspathfinder/extras/community-creations/tre atmonks-lab/test )to be really good and helpful, the whole "God Wizard" bit.
Take everything you read there with a grain of salt. Or maybe a whole saltmine. Those are optimisation guides and have nothing to do with roleplaying.
A lot of people will prefer a more balanced approach, where you don't totally ignore things just because they don't maximise your effectivity, or put 7s into all stats you don't need to maximise damage output. In fact, some GMs will not allow such characters.
1) CRB tells me as an Elf Wizard at 6th level I am proficient with club, dagger, quarterstaff, heavy crossbow, light crossbow yadda yadda. Does this mean I am incapable of equipping and using other weapons/tools?
Proficiencies are all about weapon proficiencies only. Well, weapon and armour proficiencies.
It doesn't mean you are incapable of using or equipping other weapons or tools.
The exception is magic. Some magic items can only be used be certain people. For example, a wand of the cure light wounds spell can only be used by characters with cure light wounds on their spell list. That means wizards cannot use such wands (unless they have the Use Magic Device skill and make their check).
But back to weapons and tools. And armour.
There is no such thing as "tool proficiency". That means you can generally use all tools. To effectively use them, you of course need the right skills. For example, a set of lock picks is more or less useless to someone who never learned to pick locks (with the Disable Device skill). Some skills can be made untrained (i.e. if you didn't put any ranks into it), and every race and every class can put ranks in every skill (but if it's a class skill for your class, you get a +3 bonus for the skill if you have ranks in it).
For weapons, there are weapon proficiencies, which allow you to use a weapon effectively. If you don't have the right proficiency, you can still use the weapon, but take a -4 attack penalty due to non-proficiency. And a few select weapons have special options that only work if you have proficiency (I'm talking about the bastard sword, which is a two-handed martial weapon, but if you have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat for that weapon, you can use it one-handed. If you don't, it's a two-handed weapon and you simply cannot use it one-handed, not even with the -4).
Elves get extra proficiencies (longsword, rapier, longbow, shortbow) over those every wizard gets.
Armour is a different animal. There is still a non-proficiency penalty - the armour penalty will then apply to most checks, not just the usual. Also, certain classes, like wizards, have general trouble casting spells in armour. Whenever these classes wear armour and try to cast a spell with a somatic component (i.e. gestures), they have a percentile chance of fumbling the spell (because the bulky armour is in the way).
I was reading Treantmonk's Guide and he was telling me about "Headband of Vast Int" and "Rod of Metamagic Extend, Lesser", "Rod of Metamagic Silent, lesser" and "Rod of Metamaic Quicken, lesser", "Crystal Ball" and "Small shield, Mithril" etc, etc.
Most of these magic items can be used by anyone - though in some cases, not everyone will find them useful. The headband of vast intellect increases the character's intelligence score, which is great for wizards, but a barbarian will probably not get terribly excited about it (and only very rarely pay lots of gold to get it). Metamagic rods are only useful if you can do magic.
Can someone explain to me, or point me in the right direction as to how I can make use of these items?
There are a number of magic items that have use limitations:
Scrolls are "spell completion". If you want to use them, they need to be the right kind of scroll (there are arcane scrolls for wizards and so on, and divine scrolls for clerics etc.), the spell has to be on your spell list (a wizard couldn't use an arcane cure light wounds scroll, since the spell isn't on the wizards spell list), and ideally be of high enough level to cast that particular spell (not absolutely necessary, but if your caster level is too low, you need to make a check to successfully cast the spell from the scroll)
Wands are spells in small stick form. They're similar to scrolls, except that they're "spell trigger" items. You need to be a spellcaster, and the spell must still be on your list, but there is no difference between arcane and divine, and you can use them without problem even if you couldn't use that particular spell yet. Note that no wand can have spells of 5th-level or higher
Staves are similar to wands, except that they have less charges, can be recharged without cost in a limited manner, have more than one spell on them, and unlike most other spell items, you can supply your own caster level etc. instead of the items if yours is better.
There are a few other special cases where you need to meet special requirements to be able to use the item, but that's mostly it. (Magic weapons and armour are just like regular weapons and armour - if you have trouble wielding a normal greatsword, you'll also have trouble wielding a magical greatsword). There's even stuff that only works for, say, elves, or dwarves, or good characters. In those cases, it's less a matter of proficiency and more of items that are specifically designed this way.
In all these cases (except the weapon and armour proficiencies), you can use the Use Magic Device skill to use the item even if you normally do not qualify for it (you basically tinker with it, or sometimes fool the item into believing you are a nice paladin while you are, in fact, an evil rogue)
As of right now 6th level Elf Wizard I am to believe I can not equip any armor, and can not use any weapons or weapon like items other than listed in the proficient list under Wizard in CRB.
As I said: If you use armour, you'll have a spell failure chance (not really worth it. Besides, wizards tend to have better ways to prevent others from hitting them). Weapons you're not proficient in carry the non-proficiency penalty. As a wizard, your attack bonus tends to be rather bad, anyway (so taking further penalties will only make things worse), and frankly, when a wizard is forced to fall back on steel weapons, he's in trouble, anyway.
2) How useful is Alchemy and item creation feats? Will I need to brew myself and party members potions? Create magic and wondrous items for them? I've never actually sat down and played a session with a DM, and the group I've linked up with are about 10-20 years older than I am (I'm 25) and I don't want to be wasting their time. I've been trying to find guides online, but I don't want to rely on them. I love getting inside scoop from players themselves, rather than a "DO THIS" guide.
This depends a lot on the party and, more importantly, the GM's style and the nature of the campaign. These feats can be immensely useful!
You can more or less choose what you build, which can be nice in games where buying magic in stores is hard. You will also pay only half, which is nice whether the game you play in has magic item supermarkets or considers the idea of someone selling magic strange.
On the other hand, it takes time. Most characters probably won't mind if you take a bit of time to create their magic sword if they save big time in return, but the campaign might not wait for you: If you only have a week to find the hidden temple to kill the priest before he can finish his ritual and make his deity manifest bodily on this world and enslave all the goodly races, taking a month to create a better sword isn't really an option.
It's best to ask the GM whether you're going to have time for item creation.
3) Permanent spells. What should I keep in my spellbook on hand (other than my obvious specialization spells) and what should I look at becoming permanent, if this is at all even useful, which I believe to be based on what I've read from the books. My school focus is Divination, and I'm going to be pulling mainly from Conjuration, Divination, Transmutation, and Illusion. With a couple blasts just as a back up (maybe one or two.)
If you have the money, permanency can be quite useful. But note that in the standard rules, a caster that is higher-level than the guy who cast the permanency can just dispel the effect and then it is gone forever, along with the money you blew on it. And you tend to encounter ever more powerful enemies as you advance in the campaign and in level.
Again, it's probably best to ask the GM about this: Is he using the standard rules (my house rule is that these effects are basically magic items, so the enemy using dispel magic can only suppress them for a time)? How often will you meet a dispel? Does he think it a good idea to use permanency?
Let me give you this as a general piece of advice for roleplaying: Communication with the other players and the GM is always a good idea. RPGs cannot really be compared to board games, even complicated ones like Hero Quest. House rules (i.e. changes to the rules that differ from group to group) are very common, and beyond that, the group's playing style and the nature of the campaign have a huge impact on the game.
There aren't really house rules for chess (nobody will think that pawns are underpowered and rule that they now get to move two squares and strike in all directions), and there is really only one way to play monopoly: Like a board game.
A roleplaying game, on the other side, varies a lot: There are groups that play by the book. There are groups that think they play by the book, but since they misunderstood a few of the rules, they don't really. And there are groups that have lots of house rules. (And of course, everything between is possible, too).
Beyond that, some groups like to have deep immersion storytelling, where people address each other with their character names. Other groups are all about the fighting: Enter dungeon, encounter monster, kill monster, take its stuff. Repeat for next room. And again, combinations and pretty much everything is possible.
And of course, there are campaigns where you take on missions that have little connection with each other, while others are one big, interconnected story. Sometimes, you have lots of spare time between missions while other times, you're on the clock, being forced to react to events rather than setting your own pace.
It's good to talk about these things with the group.
You didn't mention what level you're starting at. If it's first, you're not going to be able to afford any wondrous items anyway.
If you're dead set on playing a straight wizard, I would shy away from weapons entirely, unless you're starting at first level. Buy yourself a crossbow and maybe a dagger at first level - these are weapons of last resort. Focus more on your spell book - all your effort should be here at first level. If you're worried about AC, take Mage Armor or Shield. In my experience a clever wizard doesn't need to worry too much about AC, though, because he's parked himself behind the fighter, rogue, ranger or barbarian.
I would stick to one school of spells and see how many of the spells you want to take have a saving throw. If it's more than one, your first feat should be Spell Focus: (school). This should also be the type of wizard you are.
Whether or not to be an item creation monkey is entirely circumstantial. If you're playing a low-magic world that has little or no wondrous items available, then this might be a really good investment to buff your party. If your gang is swimming in loot in a high-magic world with wondrous item shops on every corner, then item creation probably isn't worth it.
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wow thank you all for the timely responses! every response has been extremely helpful. you all have cleared up my gray areas!
Like i had mentioned I am starting at 6th level. Would any of you have any recommendations for gearing myself as a 6th level wizard? what books I can look at? should I focus on headbands, amulets, rings, etc accessories over any type of armor? and should I look into wands and staves? obviously steel and close combat weapons would be a bad choice, but should I utilize a bow as an elf wizard?
again thank you all for your very detailed responses!
I wouldn't bother with a bow. I rolled up a 5th level elf wizard and bought him a bow. In his entire career he took one shot with it and missed. Totally not worth it for a wizard. (level 1-2 might be a different story).
You have to decide what you're going to do with this character. By 6th level you should have a path laid out for him. Do you want to be the party buffer? Do you want to put the bad guys in holes (create pit)? Maybe it would help if we knew what the rest of the party looked like, or what setting this is going to take place in.
For gear, I would focus on boosting your AC, get a headband of vast intelligence you can afford, and pick a utilitarian item that you can think of multiple uses for. One I recommend is a Ring of Sustenance - being immune to starvation and dehydration is gravy - the real advantage of this is only having to sleep for 2 hours, which can really ease things up when you're on the road.
Another one I'd recommend is a Necklace of Adaptation. Breathe underwater (no drowning) and immune to airborne poisons. Might be a little out of your price range right now, but save up for it - it saved my bacon more than once.
And I love my bacon.
2) How useful is Alchemy and item creation feats? Will I need to brew myself and party members potions? Create magic and wondrous items for them? I've never actually sat down and played a session with a DM, and the group I've linked up with are about 10-20 years older than I am (I'm 25) and I don't want to be wasting their time. I've been trying to find guides online, but I don't want to rely on them. I love getting inside scoop from players themselves,...
Alchemy is somewhat fun but not all that useful for wizards, a total of a +10-+25 will allow you to be able to build just about any alchemist item you want, but you should be able to use spells to do everything better.
Craft Misc Magic item is a "feat tax" of sorts for wizards, it allows you to build Blessed Books which are deceptively valuable and headbands of vast intelligence of greater power than you would normally be allowed. The important thing to do is have it be understood that you need a week or six between adventures so you can scribe spells and build and upgrade magic items.
Craft Misc Magic item is a "feat tax" of sorts for wizards, it allows you to build Blessed Books which are deceptively valuable and headbands of vast intelligence of greater power than you would normally be allowed. The important thing to do is have it be understood that you need a week or six between adventures so you can scribe spells and build and upgrade magic items.
And a DM that actually gives out enough coin to afford all that crafting.
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I wouldn't bother with a bow. I rolled up a 5th level elf wizard and bought him a bow. In his entire career he took one shot with it and missed. Totally not worth it for a wizard. (level 1-2 might be a different story).
You have to decide what you're going to do with this character. By 6th level you should have a path laid out for him. Do you want to be the party buffer? Do you want to put the bad guys in holes (create pit)? Maybe it would help if we knew what the rest of the party looked like, or what setting this is going to take place in.
For gear, I would focus on boosting your AC, get a headband of vast intelligence you can afford, and pick a utilitarian item that you can think of multiple uses for. One I recommend is a Ring of Sustenance - being immune to starvation and dehydration is gravy - the real advantage of this is only having to sleep for 2 hours, which can really ease things up when you're on the road.
Another one I'd recommend is a Necklace of Adaptation. Breathe underwater (no drowning) and immune to airborne poisons. Might be a little out of your price range right now, but save up for it - it saved my bacon more than once.
And I love my bacon.
This is my first campaign, first game session, first DM, first pathfinder experience period haha. The only group I could find was one already in progress as a 6th level party. They have a rouge and a cleric, not sure what styles but my friend (also new) is joining as ranger and said something about being a switch hitter.
really I think I'm just going to have to trial and error. I have yet t experience the flow of game play and am sort of lost on where I should look for gearing my wizard. my DM has given me 16,000 GP to start with and other than picking my skills, feats, spells and calculating my stats I've kind of lost a sense of where to go next.
am I able to just purchase these magical items?
Craft Misc Magic item is a "feat tax" of sorts for wizards, it allows you to build Blessed Books which are deceptively valuable and headbands of vast intelligence of greater power than you would normally be allowed. The important thing to do is have it be understood that you need a week or six between adventures so you can scribe spells and build and upgrade magic items.And a DM that actually gives out enough coin to afford all that crafting.
The DM does not have to give out crap, the Hedge wizard trait and a small town can earn you 25 gp a day.
I wouldn't bother with a bow. I rolled up a 5th level elf wizard and bought him a bow. In his entire career he took one shot with it and missed. Totally not worth it for a wizard. (level 1-2 might be a different story).
You have to decide what you're going to do with this character. By 6th level you should have a path laid out for him. Do you want to be the party buffer? Do you want to put the bad guys in holes (create pit)? Maybe it would help if we knew what the rest of the party looked like, or what setting this is going to take place in.
For gear, I would focus on boosting your AC, get a headband of vast intelligence you can afford, and pick a utilitarian item that you can think of multiple uses for. One I recommend is a Ring of Sustenance - being immune to starvation and dehydration is gravy - the real advantage of this is only having to sleep for 2 hours, which can really ease things up when you're on the road.
Another one I'd recommend is a Necklace of Adaptation. Breathe underwater (no drowning) and immune to airborne poisons. Might be a little out of your price range right now, but save up for it - it saved my bacon more than once.
And I love my bacon.
This is my first campaign, first game session, first DM, first pathfinder experience period haha. The only group I could find was one already in progress as a 6th level party. They have a rouge and a cleric, not sure what styles but my friend (also new) is joining as ranger and said something about being a switch hitter.
really I think I'm just going to have to trial and error. I have yet t experience the flow of game play and am sort of lost on where I should look for gearing my wizard. my DM has given me 16,000 GP to start with and other than picking my skills, feats, spells and calculating my stats I've kind of lost a sense of where to go next.
am I able to just purchase these magical items?
Yup.
He's giving you that based on this chart. this one will give you the list of the most useful gear (for you), this will give you an idea of prices for wands, scrolls, and the rest of the magic items like potions, rings, staves, staffs, rods. How you "acquired" these items is up to you - you could have bought them at a store, or inherited them from a wizard, found them in a box, whatever. It's your fluff.
Like I said, you should narrow your concept down, decide what you want to do, and build everything around that. You could do a lot worse than to follow Treantmonk's guide when you're starting out. Since it looks like there's no dedicated tank, focusing on summoning monsters is not a bad idea, and TM swears by it. For example, if what you want to do is debuff the enemy and shut him down, focus on necromancy, sink a feat or two into Spell Focus: Necromancy (to increase save DCs, making it harder for the enemy to ignore your spells), look for effects that lower saving throws by making them shaken or frightened (like scare. If you're going to focus on summoning monsters, buff them up with Augment Summoning, Haste, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, etc.
Depending on your intelligence mod, you'll have at least 13 spells in your book. Ask your DM if you can have "acquired" other spells in your travels to add to your spellbook, and if so how many and can you choose them. He might tell you that you need to spend money on scrolls to get them.
Pay attention to your saving throws. Don't dump Dexterity because it's the most useful all-around stat, even for a wizard, and boosts your Reflex and AC. Don't dump Wisdom because it powers your will save and Perception, the skill you will use the most (and is the odds-on favorite for your first dice roll in the game). Don't be afraid to ask questions while you're playing.
I like Alchemy for making your spells even more useful if your DM allows Alchemical Power Components. If you go that route, I'd suggest a Ring of Sustenance and the Master Alchemist feat at 5th level. With max ranks in Craft Alchemy and an Alchemists' Kit, you'll be cranking out Alchemical stuff really really quickly.
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Again, thank you all very much. This has been a very informative thread for me. I do have another question though, if an item or wand is telling me that it's CL10th does that mean I have to be caster level 10? Am I only able to equip things CL6th and down?
Thanks again everyone :)
You can't craft it unless you have the required CL. but you can equip anything you can buy or find. Whether you can activate it is another question.
Rule of thumb: If you can speak, and you have the spell available on your spell list, you can activate it.
Generally speaking, alchemical items are not worth the price and time. You'd be better spending your skill ranks elsewhere.
*Buy* an alchemical item or two as power focuses for your spell casting.
This is true if CL is listed in the requirements field for the magic item.
If you look at the following magic item you will see that while it as a CL of 20, it does not require you to be a 20th level caster to create:
Sovereign Glue
Aura strong transmutation; CL 20th
Slot —; Price 2,400 gp (per ounce); Weight —
Description
This pale amber substance is thick and viscous. Because of its particular powers, it can be contained only in a flask whose inside has been coated with 1 ounce of salve of slipperiness, and each time any of the bonding agent is poured from the flask, a new application of the salve of slipperiness must be put in the flask within 1 round to prevent the remaining glue from adhering to the side of the container. A flask of sovereign glue, when found, holds anywhere from 1 to 7 ounces of the stuff (1d8–1, minimum 1), with the other ounce of the flask's capacity taken up by the salve of slipperiness. One ounce of this adhesive covers 1 square foot of surface, bonding virtually any two substances together in a permanent union. The glue takes 1 round to set. If the objects are pulled apart (a move action) before that time has elapsed, that application of the glue loses its stickiness and is worthless. If the glue is allowed to set, then attempting to separate the two bonded objects has no effect, except when universal solvent is applied to the bond. Sovereign glue is dissolved by universal solvent.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, make whole; Cost 1,200 gp
As you can see, the only requirements are at the bottom. In this case, Craft Wondrous Item and the spell make whole are it.
