DMing Vanquished Villains

[Goblin Yoda]

So, I've been DMing for 3 or 4 years now, and my players are pretty happy with my style--the one thing I can't seem to do right is role-playing a conquered enemy. After they've been knocked unconscious, grappled and tied, or forced to surrender, it's difficult to tell how they would act toward the PCs. How can I keep them from giving up all their information and still make them seem intimidated? How hostile should I play them? How does it vary between different types of villain?

[Nicos]

There is no rule fot that, the best thing you can do is to give your villains a defined personality, so you can know beforehand how they will respond to be defeted and interrogated, they can refuse no matter what the players do, or the Pcs can have the portunity to intimidate they, or the villain can lie

[Helic]

Goblin Yoda wrote:

So, I've been DMing for 3 or 4 years now, and my players are pretty happy with my style--the one thing I can't seem to do right is role-playing a conquered enemy. After they've been knocked unconscious, grappled and tied, or forced to surrender, it's difficult to tell how they would act toward the PCs. How can I keep them from giving up all their information and still make them seem intimidated? How hostile should I play them? How does it vary between different types of villain?

Most evil types will sell out their buddies to save their own skin. LE types are the most likely to clam up, especially if they belong to an organization that punishes such (talking is not a get-out-of death free card, it just delays it). But remember they're generally evil because they value themselves above all else. Fanatical evil types (like Clerics, though this is not absolute) might rather die than talk. You need to decide beforehand what kind of evil guy you've got.

But, remember that you're operating in a world with Raise Dead and the like. If your boss is powerful, he may reward you for choosing death over talking, in the form of being brought back to life. Consider if he has a boss who might do this.

[Kthulhu]

Helic wrote:

But, remember that you're operating in a world with Raise Dead and the like. If your boss is powerful, he may reward you for choosing death over talking, in the form of being brought back to life. Consider if he has a boss who might do this.

1. Getting killed in the way most minions get killed HURTS. Even if the guy believed his boss would definitely bring him back, he'd probably rather just avoid dying altogether.

2. How many evil minions have THAT MUCH faith in their BBEG boss?

3. And how many of those bosses actually deserve that faith?

4. A competent minion wouldn't have gotten caught in the first place...so why waste time and resources raising an incompetent minion?

[Lincoln Hills]

Goblin Yoda wrote:

...After they've been knocked unconscious, grappled and tied, or forced to surrender, it's difficult to tell how they would act toward the PCs. How can I keep them from giving up all their information and still make them seem intimidated? How hostile should I play them? How does it vary between different types of villain?...

Ah, an intriguing question. Warning: I'm going to be long-winded on this one!

1. Total Defiance... PCs tend to be far more pragmatic than TV/movie heroes (not counting Mal negotiating with Crow in The Train Job, or James Bond negotiating with ANYbody.) A neutral villain is more likely to take this stand, since he/she has some faith that the PCs aren't monsters. An evil villain knows darn well that if the roles were reversed, he'd start cutting off limbs - so he usually won't try this approach (barring reasons such as the religious fanaticism or the Omerta - both already mentioned in other posts.)

2. Stonewall... Particularly phlegmatic or depressed captives will simply act like they're zombies. They'll provide info (not necessarily reliable) if the PCs are menacing enough but otherwise tend to bide their time, waiting for rescue or a chance to bolt.

3. Ye Got Me, Jim Lad! The villain behaves as if this whole thing, regardless of how deadly its stakes have been, was a great game in which the PCs won. He bears them no grudge for being the better player, and will cheerfully offer whatever he thinks the PCs want to hear. Unlike 'Nice Master, Good Master', a YGMJL probably isn't plotting his escape, although he'll certainly make one if he sees a golden opportunity. Although I named it after Long John Silver's line, this technique is most often seen from Batman's villains.

3. My Sword Is Yours... Quite uncommon, and when it does happen it's usually a ruse. However, under certain circumstances (especially with a LN villain) the villain may transfer his loyalty to the PCs on the basis that they are very strong and thus likely to achieve victory - and he'd rather have a small share of the victory than 100% of the defeat.

4. Name, Rank, and Serial Number... Usually only for non-chaotics. More cooperative than the Stoneface, but the villain is simply providing the bare minimum necessary to maintain his/her value as a prisoner, so the PCs will spare his/her life.

5. Nice Master, Good Master! Remember what Smeagol did. He pulled "My Sword Is Yours" at first, and then devised a new plan that took advantage of his defeat and new loyalties. This is the trickiest to perform, since most PCs will be expecting it. But it's all the sweeter when they know the villain is treacherous and he/she still tricks them.

6. Fools! I Am Not The True Enemy! Sometimes the villain really is the lesser of two evils, and sometimes it's an epic Bluff check. Either way, the villain reveals that although he/she has been opposing the PCs, he/she has been doing so to prevent a greater evil or danger that the PCs would have unwittingly caused. Only villains who are masters of Bluff should attempt a false FIANTTE: whereas if it's a legitimate FIANTTE, you as GM had better have a rock-solid case A) why the PCs didn't notice the True Enemy before now, and B) why the villain didn't just tell them about the True Enemy.

Best Fits For These Strategies - By Villain Alignment
LN Villain = Total Defiance, Stonewall, My Sword Is Yours, Name Rank & SN, Fools I Am Not The True Enemy
N Villain = Total Defiance, Stonewall, Ye Got Me Jim Lad, Name Rank & SN, Nice Master Good Master, Fools I Am Not The True Enemy
CN Villain = Total Defiance, Ye Got Me Jim Lad, Fools I Am Not The True Enemy
LE Villain = Stonewall, My Sword Is Yours, Name Rank & SN, Nice Master Good Master, Fools I Am Not The True Enemy
NE Villain = Ye Got Me Jim Lad, Name Rank & SN, Nice Master Good Master, Fools I Am Not The True Enemy
CE Villain = Total Defiance, Ye Got Me Jim Lad

[Helic]

Kthulhu wrote:

Helic wrote:

But, remember that you're operating in a world with Raise Dead and the like. If your boss is powerful, he may reward you for choosing death over talking, in the form of being brought back to life. Consider if he has a boss who might do this.

1. Getting killed in the way most minions get killed HURTS. Even if the guy believed his boss would definitely bring him back, he'd probably rather just avoid dying altogether.

2. How many evil minions have THAT MUCH faith in their BBEG boss?

3. And how many of those bosses actually deserve that faith?

4. A competent minion wouldn't have gotten caught in the first place...so why waste time and resources raising an incompetent minion?

I agree with much of this, but I also think that if the mafia existed in the fantasy world, dying instead of talking is sort of like going to jail; inconvenient but acceptable. Bad guys have families that need taking care of too, after all. Of course in the real world the mafioso rat each other out to avoid jail time much of the time anyways - but in a fantasy world, fanatics should be MORE common. To reply in specific:

1. Squealing on your boss can get you killed too. By your boss. And who's to say those guys holding you for information won't kill you after you've talked?

2. This depends. Cohorts probably would.

3&4. Some do. Chief minions are difficult to replace and raising them is good for cementing loyalty. The raised also tend to burn with vengeance, which is excellent motivation. Those minions also have valuable information; enemy faces, tactics, intelligence and the like. Recovering your minion for valuable intel is acceptable. Heck, you can take it out of his share of future booty.

[Bwang]

I have the behavior 'match' the storyline, perhaps a bit too much. My ultimate goof had players with NO skills 'break' the baddie in order to advance the plotline too the next step (Yes, they missed about a half dozen clues!) when the party went catatonic. I eventually had the prisoner escape down the NEVER SEARCHED FOR secret door leading to the next encounter. I actually had to have him grab one of the players' backpacks to lure them on.

Remember, they are tools to advance the adventure.

[Goblin Yoda]

Lincoln Hills wrote:

Lots of helpful stuff.

Wow, this was really useful. Thanks! And I love Helic's idea about mooks (maybe second-in-commands) that are confident they'll be raised later.

[Helic]

Goblin Yoda wrote:

Lincoln Hills wrote:

Lots of helpful stuff.

Wow, this was really useful. Thanks! And I love Helic's idea about mooks (maybe second-in-commands) that are confident they'll be raised later.

Again, this is highly dependent upon the boss and minion interaction. The Boss' girl/boyfriend? Yeah, s/he's getting raised. The sometimes useful but often competitive henchthug? Not so much.

[Lincoln Hills]

I recall one particularly gruesome scene from one of 3.5's modules in which the boss villain raises one of his lieutenants right in front of the PCs, just so he can say "You have failed me for the last time" and kill him far, far more horribly than the PCs did. ;)