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Hello All,
I'm a GM and I'm running Legacy of Fire. We have a fairly haphazard group of heroes, but one is a Ranger with a fairly nasty build. Here are his stats:
KAY'ENN TELVA CR 4
Male Half-Elf Ranger (Guide) 5
NG Medium Humanoid (Elf, Human)
Hero Points 1
Init +4; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +11
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DEFENSE
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AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 15. . (+5 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 45 (5d10+5)
Fort +6, Ref +9, Will +3
Immune sleep; Resist Elven Immunities
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OFFENSE
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Spd 20 ft.
Melee +1 Longsword +8 (1d8+3/19-20/x2) and
. . Dagger +7 (1d4+2/19-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +7 (1d3+2/20/x2)
Ranged +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +2) +10 (1d8+3/20/x3)
Special Attacks Ranger's Focus +4 (2/day)
Ranger (Guide) Spells Known (CL 2, 7 melee touch, 9 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) Longstrider (DC 12), Gravity Bow (DC 12)
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STATISTICS
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Str 14, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 10
Base Atk +5; CMB +7; CMD 20
Feats Deadly Aim -2/+4, Endurance, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Skill Focus: Survival (Adaptability)
Traits Gnoll Killer, Highlander (hills or mountains)
Skills Climb +7, Craft (Bows) +7, Craft (Traps) +7, Escape Artist +1, Fly +1, Heal +6, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (Geography) +9, Knowledge (Nature) +9, Perception +11, Ride +1, Stealth +10, Survival +12, Swim +3 Modifiers Highlander (hills or mountains)
Languages Elven, Gnoll
SQ Elf Blood, Hero Points (1), Ring of Feather Falling, Terrain Bond (Ex), Terrains: Mountain (+2 bonus) (Ex), Track +2, Wild Empathy +5 (Ex)
Combat Gear +1 Hide Shirt, +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +2), +1 Longsword, Arrows (40), Dagger; Other Gear Adventurer's Sash, Artisan's tools, masterwork: Craft (Bows), Artisan's tools, masterwork: Craft (Traps), Backpack, Bedroll, Blanket, winter, Chalk, 1 piece (3), Climber's kit, Cloak of Resistance, +1, Flint and steel, Gems (23), Necklace of 13 Gnoll teeth (kill trophies), Ring of Feather Falling, Rope, silk (50 ft.), Waterskin
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Deadly Aim -2/+4 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Elf Blood You are counted as both elves and humans for any effect relating to race.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to Sleep effects.
Endurance +4 to a variety of skill checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Hero Points (1) Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Highlander (hills or mountains) +1 to Stealth checks, Stealth is always a class skill for you. Double this in hilly or rocky areas.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into combat.
Ranger's Focus +4 (2/day) (Ex) +4 to hit and damage focused target.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Terrain Bond (Ex) Allies within LOS and hearing gain +2 Initiative, Perception, Stealth, Survival and don't leave tracks within your favored terrain.
Terrains: Mountain (+2 bonus) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Mountain.
Track +2 +2 to survival checks to track.
Wild Empathy +5 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
The concern I have is that when buffed, and against a Gnoll, this character, at 5th level with Haste (provided by party member) + Gravity Bow (provided by himself) he gets +13/+13/+13 (at a designated target) and between 42-72 points of damage in one round. And that's just with a +1 composite long bow, and not a confirmed critical threat.
To further break it down:
TO HIT: +13/+13/+13
TO DAMAGE (One Attack): 2d6+12 (Low: 14; High: 24)
TO DAMAGE (All Attacks): 6d6+36 (Low: 42; High: 72)
Critical (One Attack): x 3 (Low: 42; High: 72)
Critical (All Attacks): x 3 (Low: 126; High: 216)
Any suggestions on how I can handle this?
He's firing at high armor foes for anyone he doesn't have a clear shot to hit and he's still at least two feats away from recovering from that (he could perhaps take weapon focus next level and then snag point blank master at 6 with his ranger feat). Until then, if any occupied square intersects his shot, they gain cover and he's shooting at a target with a +4AC bonus.
Tight spaces always offer big problems, he will provoke when shooting for some time, even with well planned feats, so just make sure you don't run many encounters where the badguys start from range.
Fickle winds and any spell of that ilk (wind wall, etc) will force him to check down to melee in most cases. Even an illusion of a wind wall will be enough to fake him out and draw him in (or make him complain!)
Blocking vision is also easily done. To be honest this archer is sub optimal from a couple of perspectives, you're not dealing with a dedicated power gamer.
It's not hard to kick around an archer a bit, but you need to realize he's going to crank out as much damage as a well played barbarian or fighter over the course of an adventure.
Also, what's your beef with him? I assure you that if the rogue was the only well built character he'd be the one owning the encounters. IMO let the well planned person reap the benefits. Let the mustache havers enjoy their mustaches.
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Hello All,
I'm a GM and I'm running Legacy of Fire. We have a fairly haphazard group of heroes, but one is a Ranger with a fairly nasty build. Here are his stats:
Will +3
With that Will save, any sort of class that does Enchantment spells or Telepathy psionics will ruin the rest of the party's day. A couple of charm person spells (in case that Hero Point gets used to deal with the first one) and a request "to deal with your friends because they are causing my employers absolute fits. Could you have them all tied up for me tomorrow morning, please?"
Also, if he's wasting gnolls, who's to say some of them don't get wise and pledge themselves to some group or individual that's more powerful for protection.
Finally, anything players can do, NPCs can too. Maybe he gets a rep being such a good archer that he has other archers gunning for him. In the case of gnoll archers, his first warning shot will be the one that hits him when he least expects it.
Will +3
I'll expand on this with: How about a spellcaster with (Greater?) Spell Focus (enchantment) behind a wind wall?
Other than that, cover and concealment help. Enemy archers who are prone and firing crossbows would work too.
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I'm not against the player at all. I think it's great that he's maximised his character, however with that much output, I fear for the safety of major NPCs as the end battles should be epic and not over in 5 minutes.
I guess I'm just looking for strategies to combat that problem, which you have all provided. So thank you! Will saves...gotcha!
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So you have issues twice a day, against his favorite enemies, when they buff haste? He has mediocre saves and does normal damage against non-gnolls when they don't have haste / gb online (or even if they do).
That is actually a pretty average archer build. Lots of cover/angles will hurt him till next level.
I would say that the general problem is that the APs are too easy. Over 1/3 of the damage here is coming from Wizard (Haste) and I bet other party memebers would also do damge hasted, if the enemies got close. So without further information I wouldn't say this was the rangers problem.
I would add Advanced Template to all enemies for a while and see how it goes (= +2 to all rolls, +4 to AC) without adding the exp awards. If it seems too much, drop it or lower it to half. If not enough keep adding.
Looking him over, he has decent but not high AC. Put him in tight quarters and move your enemies in from more than one side. If you can get him flanked he's down to his longsword. Have the enemies group to add cover from their allies.
And the big one for this module: Gnolls have darkvision. Your ranger only has low light vision. Gnolls should be raiding at night, under the cover of darkness, cloudy skies, and all that nice gloomy ambiance. Sure a few torches and light spells will drop threat. But a few gnolls with longbows will out range your ranger on that dark night and can really throw a party into disarray for a few rounds.
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To all those suggesting that he target the will save, remember that as a Half-Elf he actually has a +5 against most of the spells that were being suggested.
He seems fine. He actually weakened himself as far as I'm concerned by taking the Guide Archetype; he could have been hitting every gnoll with his favoured enemy bonus, and had enough favourite target by now as well. The way he is now he can go to town on two enemies per day. So if you want to protect your big bads from his bow, give them a soft cover barrier in the form of other minions. Either he uses his guide bonus on them, or he's attacking without his bonuses until his allies can clear him a path.
It's the same as the arguments against paladin archers doing so much damage, only in this case your ranger's guide bonus is far less brutal than smite evil. It's not broken if he can only go nova twice per day.
Just make sure you're calling him on soft cover (read up on these rules as they're important to know), and if you really want someone protected, have an ally use a scroll of windwall on them.
The concern I have is that when buffed, and against a Gnoll, this character, at 5th level with Haste (provided by party member) + Gravity Bow (provided by himself) he gets +13/+13/+13 (at a designated target) and between 42-72 points of damage in one round. And that's just with a +1 composite long bow, and not a confirmed critical threat.
1) Crits are 1 in 20 at BEST at his level with his stats. Don't worry about them. If they happen they happen and triple damage on a primary fighter is usually enough to seriously mess up anything.
2) Haste helps the entire party, not just him.
3) He is going to do that against ANYTHING not just gnolls, twice a day. Just remember a guide can choose one target for one use of his ability so that is two CREATURES a day he can 'nova' on.
4) Archers burn through a TON of arrows. A TON. Make sure your not playing the 15 minute adventure day and make him keep track of the arrows he uses. Eventually he will run out unless your allowing a rediculous amount to be carried all the time.
5) A well played party, that buffs and complements each other, is what you WANT players to be doing, to defeat the bad guys. Playing smart is nothing to be penalised. Remember that buffs can be dispelled. Throw in an occasional defensive caster or two who will be dispelling their hastes and there boost spells.
6) Will saves are weak. Use that to advantage.
7) The gnoll killer trait only works with a Favored Enemy. Your Ranger HAS NONE. Ramger's Focus REAPLACES Favored Enemy completely. By taking the guide variant ranger he LOST that class feature. He only gets the bonus from Gnoll Killer if your being EXTREMELY generous. You cannot have your cake (Gnoll Killer bonus) and eat it too (NOT have Gnoll Favored Enemy).
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7) The gnoll killer trait only works with a Favored Enemy. Your Ranger HAS NONE. Ramger's Focus REAPLACES Favored Enemy completely. By taking the guide variant ranger he LOST that class feature. He only gets the bonus from Gnoll Killer if your being EXTREMELY generous. You cannot have your cake (Gnoll Killer bonus) and eat it too (NOT have Gnoll Favored Enemy).
Unfortunately, you can. The trait says this:
You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls made against gnolls. If you are a barbarian and you’re fighting gnolls, your rage lasts 1 round longer than normal. If you’re a ranger and you select humanoid (gnoll) as a favored enemy, your trait bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls against gnolls increases to +2.So it just means he gets a +1, not a +2.
In one combat per day (gravity bow) against one or two opponents (Ranger's Focus) with the help of one of the other party members (haste), the ranger can do a lot of damage. For the rest of the day he's merely decent (slightly better against gnolls).
<shrug> IMO, you're making this a larger issue than it needs to be. A primary spellcaster with hold person or stinking cloud can be even more devastating to opponents.
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In one combat per day (gravity bow) against one or two opponents (Ranger's Focus) with the help of one of the other party members (haste), the ranger can do a lot of damage. For the rest of the day he's merely decent (slightly better against gnolls).
<shrug> IMO, you're making this a larger issue than it needs to be. A primary spellcaster with hold person or stinking cloud can be even more devastating to opponents.
For my part I carried a ton of level 1 pearls of power. They're cheap and the spell is nice when you have time to cast it, but really you're only adding 2.5 damage per hit (average) with that spell. At that rate it's not worth casting unless you have a round where you can't attack anything for some reason. If you think 2.5 damage per hit is breaking things, take another look, I guarantee it's not the problem.