Metamagic on Bloodline Powers? (Arcane Bolt + Toppling Spell)


Rules Questions


Can you apply a metamagic feat on a bloddline power by spending spell slot (in this case a first level slot because of the +1 level adjustment)? I'm asking the question because I find this combo very tempting:

Pathfinder SRD wrote:

From the Sage Sorcerer Archetype (UM) : Arcane Bolt (Sp): Starting at 1st level, you can unleash a ray of magic force as a standard action, targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. This ray deals 1d4 points of damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. This damage is treated as a spell of a level equal to half your sorcerer level, and is a force effect. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. This bloodline power replaces arcane bond.

Also from UM : Toppling Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells with the force descriptor knock the affected creatures prone.
Benefit: The impact of your force spell is strong enough to knock the target prone. If the target takes damage, fails its saving throw, or is moved by your force spell, make a trip check against the target, using your caster level plus your casting ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, Intelligence for wizards, and so on). This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the check fails, the target cannot attempt to trip you or the force effect in response.
A toppling spell only affects spells with the force descriptor. A toppling spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

I'm not sure if you could combine those by spending a first level slot for the metamagic. I know a Spellike ability is not a spell, but it says in the description it is treated as a spell.

I dont find this overpowered, and would allow it at my table, but I wanted to gather some though about this one before letting it fly.

Scarab Sages

I would say no, since as you pointed out it is a spell-like ability and not a spell. I don't see the line "as a spell of a level equal" as overriding that.

It doesn't have a spell level, per say. It's not a cantrip, or a first level spell, or a second level spell, ect. You don't have a spell level to adjust in the first place. You're making an assumption that it's a cantrip in order to adjust it to a first level spell, but nothing in the text indicates that. And even if it did, it's still a sla.

Sorry :/

Now, do I think that would be overpowered? Not terribly. But it's something you'd have to get your dm to houserule. If you're playing PFS, you're out of luck :(

Side note -- magic missile is super useful with toppling. 5 targets, one spell? yes please! :D


This is in the FAQ already guys -- try harder.

Let me give you a hint -- as soon as you can show me how you are going to raise the level of the spell slot the spell like ability is going to take then you can get back to me (at which point I'll point you to the rules that state a spell like ability is not a spell and therefore can't be used with metamagic).


Thanks Magicdealer - I thought so, but wanted to be sure.

Abraham spalding wrote:

This is in the FAQ already guys -- try harder.

Let me give you a hint -- as soon as you can show me how you are going to raise the level of the spell slot the spell like ability is going to take then you can get back to me (at which point I'll point you to the rules that state a spell like ability is not a spell and therefore can't be used with metamagic).

Thanks for the awnser, Abraham, if not for the sneering way it was delivered.

I may also raise that a cantrip does not have a spell slot (only a spell level), and you can still use metamagic feat on them - that was the fact that let me to wonder about bloodline powers.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Well there's a Quicken Spell Like ability feat, so (house rule) why not Topple SLA?

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