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In Version 3 of the PFS Guide to Organise Play, I know that the Guide stated that raise death and resurrection did not incur any permanent negative levels when cast in PFS play, as a change to the normal death and dying rules.
From reading the boards, I have been made aware that this wording is no longer present in Version 4 of the guide. However, if I hadn't read mention of this in a couple of threads, I'd have had no idea, and would have kept on running raise dead as under the Version 3 rules in error.
My point is that I find it's a lot harder to spot rules changes that have been removed in updates than it is to spot new additions to the rules.
Is there any way that new versions of the guide could note it somewhere when a previous PFS 'house rule' is removed, so as to avoid us less observant sorts from missing important rules changes like this one?
Michael,
Sometime after the release of version 3.0, the emails that were automatically sent to everyone who had previously downloaded the Guide, and which listed all the changes between versions, stopped getting sent. If that system could be reactivated, I think that would fix this issue.
Though, no offense to anyone, but why would someone not read through the new version as soon as they got their copy?
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Though, no offense to anyone, but why would someone not read through the new version as soon as they got their copy?
I can't speak for everyone, but I did read through it. Despite that, it didn't click that the raise dead rules had changed until I saw mention of it on the boards. It's a 32 page document and I don't compare old and new side by side to see what changed.
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Though, no offense to anyone, but why would someone not read through the new version as soon as they got their copy?I can't speak for everyone, but I did read through it. Despite that, it didn't click that the raise dead rules had changed until I saw mention of it on the boards. It's a 32 page document and I don't compare old and new side by side to see what changed.
Exactly my situation too. Hence my mentioning it's harder to spot removed rules than it is to spot newly added rules.
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Michael,
Sometime after the release of version 3.0, the emails that were automatically sent to everyone who had previously downloaded the Guide, and which listed all the changes between versions, stopped getting sent. If that system could be reactivated, I think that would fix this issue.
Though, no offense to anyone, but why would someone not read through the new version as soon as they got their copy?
I'm creating a separate word file that I copy and paste info to on changes, additions and deletions as I work on Guide 4.1. This will allow us to create a sticky post here that should include all the changes for future guides going forward.
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I'm creating a separate word file that I copy and paste info to on changes, additions and deletions as I work on Guide 4.1. This will allow us to create a sticky post here that should include all the changes for future guides going forward.
One thing I've seen work really well for documents like this is to change the text color of the sections that have changed.
example
This is the first rule
This is the second rule
This is
This is the second rule
generally something more visable then our OOC blue (red is the color I've seen most often)
generally something more visable then our OOC blue (red is the color I've seen most often)
Mark and Mike, and Paizo, already put new changes to the Additional Resources page and the PFS and general FAQs in red when updates are made.
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I'm creating a separate word file that I copy and paste info to on changes, additions and deletions as I work on Guide 4.1. This will allow us to create a sticky post here that should include all the changes for future guides going forward.Michael,
Sometime after the release of version 3.0, the emails that were automatically sent to everyone who had previously downloaded the Guide, and which listed all the changes between versions, stopped getting sent. If that system could be reactivated, I think that would fix this issue.
Though, no offense to anyone, but why would someone not read through the new version as soon as they got their copy?
Michael,
Be careful when posting the contents of that Word document, as I know for a fact that some forums do strange things to documents from Word because Microsoft's "Smart Quotes", among other proprietary pieces, don't play well with non-Microsoft forums. Apostrophes and quotes turning into control character boxes, just for a start.
Myself, I usually copy from Word into Notepad, and then copy from there, since it usually does a good job of turning smart quotes into normal quotes.
Just a test:
“This is a test.”
Edit: Interesting, seems like this forum is more Microsoft-friendly than most.
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So under the current rules a Player who dies at level 1 or 2 can't be raised?
Not necessarily. It would probably take the combined efforts, and most of the gold, of everyone at the table (or a lot of playing up at <name omitted>'s tables) to afford, but it is, barely, possible.
On the other hand, with so little vested into the PC; and the lasting negative effects on the whole party, I would tend to recommend cutting your losses and starting a new PC instead. Losing that much gold so early would leave everyone fairly well gimped for some time, if they were not already involved in breaking the WbL curve from the other direction.
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Thanks for the answer Callarek.
This happened at the weekend to my wife's character, we were playing a mated pair of Tengu and she died in a really unfortunate manner. My wife was genuinely upset about the prospect of losing the character so a raise dead was arranged with the group. As we were playing up at the time we actually walked out with more cash than we would have without the raise.
That said in the long run it will cost more to get that con drain removed...
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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Thanks for the answer Callarek.
This happened at the weekend to my wife's character, we were playing a mated pair of Tengu and she died in a really unfortunate manner. My wife was genuinely upset about the prospect of losing the character so a raise dead was arranged with the group. As we were playing up at the time we actually walked out with more cash than we would have without the raise.
That said in the long run it will cost more to get that con drain removed...
It's just the additional cost of a restoration in the end. Which I think is worth paying to make sure a Tengu character can still be played.
Certainly this highlights the need for a document to track not only rules changes and additions but also where rules are deleted.
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Thanks for the answer Callarek.
This happened at the weekend to my wife's character, we were playing a mated pair of Tengu and she died in a really unfortunate manner. My wife was genuinely upset about the prospect of losing the character so a raise dead was arranged with the group. As we were playing up at the time we actually walked out with more cash than we would have without the raise.
That said in the long run it will cost more to get that con drain removed...
Unfortunate but spectacular. People were talking about that one at Conception last weekend.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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Unfortunate but spectacular. People were talking about that one at Conception last weekend.Thanks for the answer Callarek.
This happened at the weekend to my wife's character, we were playing a mated pair of Tengu and she died in a really unfortunate manner. My wife was genuinely upset about the prospect of losing the character so a raise dead was arranged with the group. As we were playing up at the time we actually walked out with more cash than we would have without the raise.
That said in the long run it will cost more to get that con drain removed...
It was Indiecon last weekend ;)But yes we were talking about it!
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So what happens when a PC dies in PFS? I too have looked in the document and from my previous understandings there were no penalties. Since I didn't notice that there were penalties, I didn't take them when my PC died and played again this past Con.
When Raise Dead is used - you suffer a penalty and that is? Why is that better or worse than a Resurrection and would I have been better off with that being that either PA or money is no /was no object?
So what happens when a PC dies in PFS? I too have looked in the document and from my previous understandings there were no penalties. Since I didn't notice that there were penalties, I didn't take them when my PC died and played again this past Con.
When Raise Dead is used - you suffer a penalty and that is? Why is that better or worse than a Resurrection and would I have been better off with that being that either PA or money is no /was no object?
Here is the text from the Raise Dead spell, bolding of penalty done by me:
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can't be raised). A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised. A spellcasting creature that doesn't prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell.
A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current HD. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature's equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.
The negative levels must be removed with the Restoration spell. So you would need both Raise Dead and two castings of Restoration to get back to normal, assuming you have none of the other issues listed in the spell description that the spell does not fix.
As to your question about Resurrection, it has a negative effect also, but otherwise completely restores the character:
Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. The subject of the spell gains one permanent negative level when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can't be resurrected).
Note that you would still need one casting of Restoration if using Resurrection.
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So if I decide that I don't want or cannot afford the PA/GP cost of those two additional Full Restoration spells with a Raise Dead - I lose two levels? Thus allowing me to play my character even more? Doesn't really sound like a lose-lose situation. I could even decide that those last two levels were bad ideas and re-build my character with them. Of course, if it isn't expressly forbidden in PFS play than this should be an option to consider. If the level drain 'must' be restored to continue playing a PFS character a new Raise Dead with Full Restoration concept should required in the guide.
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just a buyer beware: restoration to restore negative levels can only be done once a week. if you're brought back at the end of a game thats probably fine. but if you're rezzed during a game, the most that a restoration can remove is one of the negative levels, until another week passes. since downtime between sessions isn't tracked temporally, your next session won't have any negative levels presuming you pay the costs / pa to have restoration cast a second time.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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just a buyer beware: restoration to restore negative levels can only be done once a week. if you're brought back at the end of a game thats probably fine. but if you're rezzed during a game, the most that a restoration can remove is one of the negative levels, until another week passes. since downtime between sessions isn't tracked temporally, your next session won't have any negative levels presuming you pay the costs / pa to have restoration cast a second time.
This just happened at my last nights game (3-07, Echoes of the Overwatched) to a very unfortunate Gunslinger. The 4-5 tier actually resulted in 2 PC deaths. Anyway, because it happened on the last encounter, I had the PC that was revived via Raise Dead & Restoration x2 just mark down the total Prestige Cost on that night's chronicle sheet. My assumption being that there's about 1-2 weeks of downtime between most non-continuous games and that his character would be fine "sitting on the bench" until he was fully restored.
Somewhat related question that I now have because of the deaths - when i go to record the session, do I still mark that both PCs died? Even though both were resurrected (in some fashion) and completed their individual faction missions? I only ask because after you check "died" in the reporting area, it grays out the fields for prestige gain. Are killed then resurrected pre-end-of-the-game PCs not eligible to receive any prestige or fame?
This just happened at my last nights game (3-07, Echoes of the Overwatched) to a very unfortunate Gunslinger. The 4-5 tier actually resulted in 2 PC deaths. Anyway, because it happened on the last encounter, I had the PC that was revived via Raise Dead & Restoration x2 just mark down the total Prestige Cost on that night's chronicle sheet. My assumption being that there's about 1-2 weeks of downtime between most non-continuous games and that his character would be fine "sitting on the bench" until he was fully restored.
Downtime between scenarios in never recorded or measured, even if you play two connected scenarios back to back in which you would expect no passage of time between to occur. Even in these cases, stuff that ends at the end of a scenario stills ends and anything that requires passage of time to heal or recharge or whatever still happens.
Somewhat related question that I now have because of the deaths - when i go to record the session, do I still mark that both PCs died? Even though both were resurrected (in some fashion) and completed their individual faction missions? I only ask because after you check "died" in the reporting area, it grays out the fields for prestige gain. Are killed then resurrected pre-end-of-the-game PCs not eligible to receive any prestige or fame?
No, you check the "died" box only if the character cannot be raised and stays dead after the end of the scenario, because then they are no longer legal for play and cannot be used again.