Ways to perform Dirty Trick with weapons

[Lord Phrofet]

Ok so thanks to the Dueling FG enhancement you can apply bonuses to Dirty trick combat maneuver as long as you use the weapon to perform the combat maneuver ( Topic Here). So the topic of this thread is inventive ways to use your weapon (specify weapon type or specific weapon please!) to perform a Dirty Trick (the conditions are blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened).

Blinded: slashing weapons can cut the eyebrow to make blood in the eyes. Blind someone with reflective sources with light.

Dazzled: not sure actually....

Deafened: blunt object to temple. slam a weapon against sometime to make loud noise.

Entangled: polearm or rope based weapon up tangled in limbs.

Shaken: not sure actually...

Sickened: nut shot.

And I know people can do better then this (looking at your blackbloodtroll).

[Bertious]

Put it on a gauntlet then you can do anything you could with your hand.

[Adamantine Dragon]

Lord, just for the sake of playing this game (not in any way indicating an approval of the "Dueling FG" enhancement itself, which I probably would not allow in my games) here are some thoughts:

Dazzling: You reflect the light of the sun, or of a bright fire into the eyes of your opponent, temporarily dazzling them.

Shaken: You demonstrate such impressive skill with your weapon (either by twirling it around at blinding speed, or by feinting rapidly from different directions) that your opponent is temporarily shaken.

I've seen these performed in movies enough times there is at least cinematic precedence for such things.

[Rycaut]

Entangled - strategic cuts to the opponents clothing/armor (think "pull your pants down" but with a weapon this might be "shred parts of clothing/armor to get in the enemies way" the move action (or standard action depending on feats) would reflect getting out of the entanglement

Shaken - blow to the back of the head or other spot (not to create nausea but rather to disconcert the person - think a blow to your funny bone

Sickened - nut shot, solid blow to the chest, cut or blow to the neck

Blinded - not just slashing weapons, blunt or piercing weapons could also blind through appropriate blows to the head (remember dirty tricks are temporary damage so can also reflect being disoriented due to temporary damage to your person or equipment.

It should also be noted that dirty tricks against non-human targets might also exploit elements of those creatures physical nature and/or weapons & armor.

[TGMaxMaxer]

I like the whip myself, and posted these in a similar thread a while back: blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened

Blinded: Flick their cloak over their head, (for a helm with horns) twist the helm around so that they can't see until they correct it.
Dazzled: Reflect light off a blade, snap them in the forehead with just the tip.
Deafened: Ever had a whip crack near your ear?
Entangled: Flick it between their feet while they are shuffling, this one works in real life lol.
Shaken: Same thing, snap it in the face area.
Sickened: Snap to the groin, another real life option.

[Adamantine Dragon]

One thing to consider is that when your "dirty trick" involves successfully defeating the opponent's attempt to defend themselves from direct contact with your weapon, it becomes functionally indistinguishable from a "called shot". The idea that you can cut the forehead to cause blood to fall into the eyes presumes that you could perform such a highly detailed and precise maneuver in spite of the defenses of the opponent, and if you could do that, why not just stick the blade right through his eyeball and into his brain?

I would instead stick to "dirty tricks" that did not involve such precise maneuvers that make one wonder why you didn't just spit the guy.

So "cracking the whip loudly near an ear" works fine. Snap to the groin? Not so much. That's a called shot.

This is one of the problems with "dirty tricks" and other subjective interpretations of the rules. What makes perfect sense to one person totally breaks verisimilitude to another.

[Lord Phrofet]

Its a lot easier to do a quick slash at someones eyes then it is to plunge your dagger thru the eye would by my argument. But yeah I agree they start to look like called shots but not everyone uses the called shot rules in their game...

Right this second I am trying to think how to use claws and bite (the two most common natural attacks) with dirty trick but coming up empty in my head...

[Adamantine Dragon]

Bite the shield and shove it down to entangle the legs of the opponent.

Claw at the opponent's backpack/cape/cloak to trip them

Bite at the sword/mace/etc to attempt to disarm

Claw something off the wall and toss it at their feet to trip, or at their face to dazzle

Bite a board in half to demonstrate the awful power of your teeth and induce the "shaken" condition.

[Rycaut]

I think of dirty tricks as blows that irritate/annoy/disorientate but don't actual deal damage. That's the tradeoff mechanically of the maneuver:

- it is a standard action (so can't be part of a series of iterative attacks w/o taking the Quick Dirty Trick feat or being a maneuver master monk doing a full attack w/flurry of maneuvers). This reflects the focus on a single dirty trick vs just dishing out damage

- it doesn't deal damage but deals one of a series of effects - so arguable in many cases whether this is "better" than the damage you could deal but there are MANY situations where it very well might be (blinding/deafening a caster will likely protect your allies more than a small amount of damage)

- the effects are never permanent and can be shaken off - i.e. a shallow cut that blinds (or a blow that turns your helmet etc) results in temporary blindness - taking a move action (or standard w/greater dirty trick) represents wiping your face, turning your helmet etc.

The main point being creating distractions and annoyances vs damage - whether this is to allow yourself and allies to escape (i.e. a blinded opponent even if just for a round typically can't take AoO's so allies can run past to escape) or whether it is to allow allies to move into position and deal combat ending blows (spells or melee attacks) depends on your party composition and position.

[DevonRex]

Lord Phrofet wrote:

Right this second I am trying to think how to use claws and bite (the two most common natural attacks) with dirty trick but coming up empty in my head...

I have a few ideas on that. Warning scatological material ahead!

Dirty Trick And Claw/Bite:

For Sickened/Blinded/Dazzled instead of the usual dirt/muck in face I replace with an equivalent vomit/hairball/bad breath/spray of musk/flung fecal matter depending on the attacker.
Deafened/Shaken could be handled by a loud roar close up.
Entangled could be caused snagging a belt or piece of clothing and tugging it out of place.

I personally do not agree with Dirty Trick being able give the shaken status as it is more of a mental state than a physical one.

The intimidate skill already covers this as does dazzling display and other abilities and feats.

Now if you could inflict the same statuses as Dirty Trick with relevant skills(such as intimidate), I would agree more with it being able to inflict the shaken status.