I'm starting a level 1 rogue in an old school D&D campaign and want to try and get him pounce at some point. Coupled with the Scout build it seems to have a lot of potential, but can it be gotten without investing levels in Barbarian (10) or Druid (5+)?
I want to full attack after a charge if possible.
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The spell Beast Shape II gets you pounce...
Several ways you could go....
DESCRIPTION
This spell functions as beast shape I, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, grab, pounce, and trip.
Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a -2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a -2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus.
Monstrous Physique II
DESCRIPTION
This spell functions as monstrous physique I, except it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large creature of the monstrous humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, freeze, grab, leap attack, mimicry, pounce, sound mimicry, speak with sharks, and trip. If the creature has the undersized weapons special quality, you gain that quality.
Tiny monstrous humanoid: If the form you take is that of a Tiny monstrous humanoid, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Large monstrous humanoid: If the form you take is that of a Large monstrous humanoid, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus.
Undead Anatomy II
DESCRIPTION
This spell functions as undead anatomy I, except it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large corporeal creature of the undead type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, blood drain, DR 5/bludgeoning, scent, freeze, grab, mimicry, pounce, shadowless, sound mimicry, and trip.
In this form, you gain a +4 bonus on saves against mind-affecting effects, disease, poison, sleep, and stunning. If the form has a vulnerability to an attack (such as sunlight), you gain that vulnerability.
Tiny undead: If the form you take is that of a Tiny undead, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Large undead: If the form you take is that of a Large undead, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus.
Alchemist (Beastmorph archetypes)
- Greater Beastform Mutagen
At 10th level, a beastmorph’s mutagen grants him three of the abilities listed in the beast shape II spell, which persist as long as the mutagen. He may select three different abilities each time he creates a mutagen.
Barbarian 10th level
- Beast Totem, Greater (Su)
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian gains the pounce special ability, allowing her to make a full attack at the end of a charge. In addition, the damage from her claws increases to 1d8 (1d6 if Small) and the claws deal x 3 damage on a critical hit.
Druid - 4th level
- At 6th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Large or Tiny animal. When taking the form of an animal, a druid’s wild shape now functions as beast shape II.
You could dip 4 levels of druid - take a Shaman archetype that gets you a single form at Druid level +2 for wild shaping. You would also access pounce at 4th level as you would be wild shaping as a 6th level druid. Continue along the path with the feat Shaping focus to add 4 more levels to your character for wild shaping. So now for your one single form you would wild shape as a 10th level Druid while only taking 4 levels of Druid at the end.
- At 8th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Huge or Diminutive animal, a Medium elemental, or a Small or Medium plant creature. When taking the form of animals, a druid’s wild shape now functions as beast shape III. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape now functions as elemental body II. When taking the form of a plant creature, the druid’s wild shape functions as plant shape I.
At 10th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Large elemental or a Large plant creature. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape now functions as elemental body III. When taking the form of a plant, the druid’s wild shape now functions as plant shape II.
Wizard - 7th level / Sorc - 8th level
- Cast the spell Beast Shape II
Any class that allows Domains - 6th level
- Plains Domain
Granted Powers:
- Migrating Herd (Su): When you summon an aurochs, bison, elephant, horse, mastodon, pony, or similar quadruped herbivore with a summoning spell, the duration of the spell is increased by 100% (this does not stack with Extend Spell). The creature’s land speed is increased by 10 feet.
Pounce (Ex): At 6th level, you may use the pounce special attack once per day. You may pounce one additional time per day for every 3 levels after 6th.
I say Alchemist's the best way to go. Even if it's a deadly long path (That rogue might just become a 4 level dip), You still get the ability to do a flying sneak pounce.
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I say Alchemist's the best way to go. Even if it's a deadly long path (That rogue might just become a 4 level dip), You still get the ability to do a flying sneak pounce.
+1 - true that. They are better then Druid in that way as they can choose which race features of the spell they would like to use. The problem i run into is this... very few games i play in go beyond 10 - 12 levels... so you have to get your "fun" in early.
I'd disagree. With the Alchemist, not only do you get your mutagen which gives you various abilities and a bonus to strength, but you also gain whichever natural attacks you please whcih in turn will be much better with feral combat and dragon style than a barbarian. Also, you get to couple beastmorph with vivisectionist, increasing your sneak attack. Not only that. You gain spells like bull's strength and enlarge person.
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I am of the 3rd party ... lol
Monk - 2 (master of many styles)
Druid - 6 (saurian shaman)
Alchemist - 12 (Vivisectionist)
* Allosaurus animal companion
* wild Shape Allosaurus
Feats: Dragon Style / Dragon Ferocity / Feral combat training / Boar style / Imp. Grapple / Strangler
*** alternate is Snapping Turtle style chain for the grapple and AC.
That removes his Scout though. But the thought of a steroid-junkie kung fu Allosaurus is interesting.
3 Levels of Horizon walker and then the 4 Dimensional feats I think would be ideal for a guy who likes to remain rogueish.
The Fourth of those is perfect for 17 levels of rogue. Since you get pounce and can flank with oneself. It happens at level 15, but you get better than pounce at level 13, which isn't bad.
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You are correct... my bad.@Whipshire.
Just to point out none of the shaman archetypes get wildshape until level 6.
Is there an official ruling on this? The way it reads is that the shaman archetypes receive wild shape as normal, and at level 6 the wild shape is modified per the archetype (+2 lvl for eagle shape, -2 level for other shapes).
If you haven't made your character yet, there are ways for a pure rogue to get pounce (or pounce like abilities) from their race, as long as you are ok with playing an animal person.
1:Tengu Swordmasters get the following ability:
Tiger Trance (Ex): The swordmaster pounces upon her opponents, striking with the ferocity and brute force of a wild tiger. While in this trance, a swordmaster can make a combat maneuver check against an opponent within charge range. If she succeeds, she may charge that opponent and make a full attack against that opponent.
2:Catfolk can get a pounce with their claws
3:Kitsune can pounce if they reveal their true form.Also, with Pummeling Style and Pummeling Charge you can make have a pounce like ability, but I think the jury is still out on whether you can use it with manufactured weapons.