Probably A Really Stupid Cohort Question...


Rules Questions


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Can a Cohort take the Leadership feat?

May I have, say at level 15, a lvl 13 cohort with a lvl 11 cohort with a lvl 9 cohort with a lvl 7 cohort with a lvl 5 cohort?


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Bane Wraith wrote:

Can a Cohort take the Leadership feat?

May I have, say at level 15, a lvl 13 cohort with a lvl 11 cohort with a lvl 9 cohort with a lvl 7 cohort with a lvl 5 cohort?

Yes. But, down there at the bottom, you see that tiny print? "If a person with leadership has their cohort take leadership, everyone at the game table may hit this person in the face with a fish once per day as an immediate action."


Bane Wraith wrote:

Can a Cohort take the Leadership feat?

May I have, say at level 15, a lvl 13 cohort with a lvl 11 cohort with a lvl 9 cohort with a lvl 7 cohort with a lvl 5 cohort?

Theoretically yes. However, as the cohort is NPC, it is GM who deciedes what feats the cohort gains. And most (but certainly not all) GMs would rather not see such abuse of Leadership feat.


But you miss the other print.. let me post it for you.

Cohort Level: You can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of your Leadership score, you can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than yourself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Creating NPCs).

From Creating NPC's
.... These characters are designed and controlled by the GM to fill every role from noble king to simple baker.

I hate to point out that all Cohorts should follow the rule that they are created by the GM not the player. These are suppose to be already viable NPC characters and not fresh blank slates that the player gets to create and min/max. Now the player gets to control this Cohort but I would never allow a Player to ever again MAKE his Cohort. It leads to too much trouble much like the above OP's idea.

Never never let your player create his Cohort. I prefer the 2nd edition tried and true leadership. These cohorts follow you because they have heard your greatness and because of your keep have flocked to serve you. You get what comes, typically it is a guy who is exactly like the player who is using the player as his mentor, and will try to be just like him but thats up to the GM.


Tharg The Pirate King wrote:

I hate to point out that all Cohorts should follow the rule that they are created by the GM not the player. These are suppose to be already viable NPC characters and not fresh blank slates that the player gets to create and min/max. Now the player gets to control this Cohort but I would never allow a Player to ever again MAKE his Cohort. It leads to too much trouble much like the above OP's idea.

Never never let your player create his Cohort. I prefer the 2nd edition tried and true leadership. These cohorts follow you because they have heard your greatness and because of your keep have flocked to serve you. You get what comes, typically it is a guy who is exactly like the player who is using the player as his mentor, and will try to be just like him but thats up to the GM.

...Shame. ^_^ I was planning to erect my own Mage's guild!

Simply go around town, find the most competent Leader around that fits the bill... Make him your cohort... Make him follow you around to the Next town, to repeat the process, until you basically have a hierarchy that you can establish at various guild halls, or bring home to work in one University-like base of operations.

Followers make excellent laborers too ^_^

...Orrrr, I could simply take over the Mage's guild by force when I'm That high level...

Bah. Just thinking about the future!


Tharg The Pirate King wrote:

But you miss the other print.. let me post it for you.

Cohort Level: You can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of your Leadership score, you can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than yourself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Creating NPCs).

From Creating NPC's
.... These characters are designed and controlled by the GM to fill every role from noble king to simple baker.

"See creating NPCs" is a parenthetical in the sentence "The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level," and there is no grammatical reason it should be taken as anything other than a pointer as to where the NPC wealth table is.

Attract a cohort could be taken to mean something, but "attract" is not a defined game term and the distinction between it and "gain" as used of animal companions can and should be taken as purely fluff. While you can argue that the cohort should be a preexisting NPC I don't think you have any real grounds for denying the player the ability to control the cohort's build from the beginning of his cohorthood.


Atarlost wrote:


"See creating NPCs" is a parenthetical in the sentence "The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level," and there is no grammatical reason it should be taken as anything other than a pointer as to where the NPC wealth table is.

Attract a cohort could be taken to mean something, but "attract" is not a defined game term and the distinction between it and "gain" as used of animal companions can and should be taken as purely fluff. While you can argue that the cohort should be a preexisting NPC I don't think you have any real grounds for denying the player the ability to control the cohort's build from the beginning of his cohorthood.

Fluff or not, I would most Definitely not press for control or design of any cohort beyond the First. I think we can all agree that a cohort gained by an NPC cohort should be entirely governed by the GM, if at all. It's merely stuck in my head that should I leave a cohort in charge of, say, running a brand new Mage's guild, that that cohort would automatically create a hierarchy. And, since the individuals of this hierarchy are effectively managing those below them, I'd say they Also would have the leadership feat in order to effectively govern and to create a tight, regulated, and disciplined troupe(or guild or clan).

As for the Original Cohort being of the character's design...

I truly don't know. ^_^

I think it's at the GM's discretion. A particular fellow I know is fond of letting players take over an NPC cohort or distant relative of their character, when that character kicks the bucket(Dies.). Thus, he allows for near-total control over a cohort's development, but controls them himself until the player takes over (with a short description of personality from the player first, of course).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bane Wraith wrote:

Can a Cohort take the Leadership feat?

May I have, say at level 15, a lvl 13 cohort with a lvl 11 cohort with a lvl 9 cohort with a lvl 7 cohort with a lvl 5 cohort?

Can they? Yes. Would I allow it? Absolutely no fricking way.

Grand Lodge

I understand that there are GM's that allow the player to create the cohort. Also some that let the player run the cohort as an extension of their PC. I do not like that approach myself.

PRD wrote:
Benefits: This feat enables you to attract a loyal cohort and a number of devoted subordinates who assist you. A cohort is generally an NPC with class levels, while followers are typically lower level NPCs. See Table: Leadership for what level of cohort and how many followers you can recruit.

Where it counts NPC is not parenthetical. So the GM makes it and controls its actions. The GM can always hand over the dice rolling to the player. The cohort and followers should never just be PC puppets.

If you want to make a mage guild then take Leadership and Role Play it and your GM should get the hint and let you go down that path. A Cohort and followers could be part of a guild population that is loyal to you as you climb your way to the top of the tower.

Liberty's Edge

LazarX wrote:
Bane Wraith wrote:

Can a Cohort take the Leadership feat?

May I have, say at level 15, a lvl 13 cohort with a lvl 11 cohort with a lvl 9 cohort with a lvl 7 cohort with a lvl 5 cohort?

Can they? Yes. Would I allow it? Absolutely no fricking way.

A GM let me do it once because it fit a concept, but he wouldn't let me play the cohort beyond what may come up in the game.

Long story short I was playing a monk, I eventually bested my master who then became my cohort and ran my monastery. He had leadership (being my mentor) and one of my rival monks continued to follow him (becoming his cohort)

I ended up with a fairly large monastery full of low level monks guarding a city that grew up around the monastery acting as kind of a local police force, while I became kind of a batman figure for the region.

It was a lot of fun, but a very specific allowance for a very specific campaign.


Bane Wraith wrote:

Can a Cohort take the Leadership feat?

May I have, say at level 15, a lvl 13 cohort with a lvl 11 cohort with a lvl 9 cohort with a lvl 7 cohort with a lvl 5 cohort?

I wrote up a whole group like this once. We decided that the people in the chain were only loyal to the people directly above and below them. In most other cases, they probably hate your guts, think you are in the way of their personal aims, or want you out of the way.

So when your level 11 guy tells his level 9 guy to do something, the level 9 guy will tell the level 7 guy to do it, who will either not be strong enough or will resent the order being passed down and do something unexpected.

It is soooo hard to find good minions.


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When one of my players gets the Leadership feat, they get to create their own cohort, and also control him in combats (though I reserve the right to veto of course). I'm not a control freak and I don't want to play half the party myself.

As for a cohort who takes the cohort feat himself - I'd flat out veto that. No Russian doll characters. Not just because it gets cheesy, but also because the poor bastard is four levels behind the party - that usually results in a dead metacohort sooner or later.


KaeYoss wrote:

When one of my players gets the Leadership feat, they get to create their own cohort, and also control him in combats (though I reserve the right to veto of course). I'm not a control freak and I don't want to play half the party myself.

As for a cohort who takes the cohort feat himself - I'd flat out veto that. No Russian doll characters. Not just because it gets cheesy, but also because the poor bastard is four levels behind the party - that usually results in a dead metacohort sooner or later.

What about an instance in which the "russian dolls" are actually in charge of an organization or facility, such as ciretose's example, or mine a little farther up?

I find it's a strange mix between roleplay and the RAW...However, it gives actual Set numbers to the number of people loyal to the player. Numbers a GM can use, if they prefer to, rather than keeping track and estimating it themselves.


I've actually played in a game where this was used to good effect.

It was something that was more or less required of the characters in the group, with each tier being used to represent a different adventuring party in an overarching mercenary organization.

Since the goals of the original characters involved a specific campaign to godhood that hinged on a very complex plan of moving parts coming together at (almost) precisely the same time, each tier was tasked with various responsibilities, and it left us able to switch off between the phases of our plans that were coming together, while having separate but defined characters taking care of it.

And each player was responsible for one of the cohorts of a different player at each tier

It wasn't even as complex to keep track of as you might think it would be. Since there was no mix between the tiers (as in, the level 5s were never out doing something with the level 7s), it basically just created a really large cast of characters.

But that sort of campaign, which eventually stalled out and never finished due to how slowly the overall plot moved along, won't be for everyone, or even most people, I suspect.


Ice Titan wrote:
Yes. But, down there at the bottom, you see that tiny print? "If a person with leadership has their cohort take leadership, everyone at the game table may hit this person in the face with a fish once per day as an immediate action."

That got errata'd, you know. Now it's once per encounter as a free action.

Anyway, yes, you can. I had a PC ask me about it a few sessions ago. I told him no. Because I'm the GM. It's what I do.


For me, the Leadership feat mainly constitutes a completely loyal cohort who follows you around on adventure to directly supports you and your party in combat, and which you get to control more or less. (I do tend to overlook/ignore the followers).

Everything beyond that is either resolved through those followers or other means. You don't need a feat for every person you wish to employ in an organisation.


Bane Wraith wrote:

Can a Cohort take the Leadership feat?

May I have, say at level 15, a lvl 13 cohort with a lvl 11 cohort with a lvl 9 cohort with a lvl 7 cohort with a lvl 5 cohort?

When I'm GM I would rule it as the following:

Yes the cohort can take the leadership feat.
However, he/she is is no longer your cohort.
He/she is now a leader in his/her own right and will no longer be following you around to bask in your greatness.


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:


When I'm GM I would rule it as the following:
Yes the cohort can take the leadership feat.
However, he/she is is no longer your cohort.
He/she is now a leader in his/her own right and will no longer be following you around to bask in your greatness.

..Not bad. ^_^ And it really doesn't conflict with what I had planned.

How do you handle experience and leveling, in that case? Is your cohort completely static until they leave their own cohort, and go adventuring with you? Do they instead gain a passive amount equal to keeping them 2 levels below you?


Once your Cohort gains the leadership feat he is a free to follow his own path. he no longer looks at you as his mentor and will follow his own accord. This means that you will need to make rolls to gain a new cohort. That cohort may come back as NPC for other encounters.. maby he will be a freindly contact in a city you need to be in or he may provide shelter and or help when needed. (as long as he was treated well). but he no longer gains exp and or levels according to you. this is why you will need to find a new cohort.


Tharg The Pirate King wrote:
Once your Cohort gains the leadership feat he is a free to follow his own path. he no longer looks at you as his mentor and will follow his own accord. This means that you will need to make rolls to gain a new cohort. That cohort may come back as NPC for other encounters.. maby he will be a freindly contact in a city you need to be in or he may provide shelter and or help when needed. (as long as he was treated well). but he no longer gains exp and or levels according to you. this is why you will need to find a new cohort.

... Strange...

Hmm, your previous post states that it's Completely and utterly in the GM's control, really. And in that sense, of course you may rule it however you like...

Should make it clear that (as far as I know) there are No rules to suggest that though; The cohort merely gains a cohort and followers.

But I like that approach, a bit. Kind of gives a bit more challenge to attempting to reign over a small city's worth of followers ^_^

Viva la Diplomacy!

One thing's for certain; It just might be an Awesome side-quest for a PC to actively seek out a cohort of his liking, and subjugate the hell out of 'em. ^_^

EDIT: Oh! That actually raises another question:

Since your approach basically means that the player will have More than one cohort in their career as Leader of all things, and the cohorts aren't actually Dying, ( I see no penalty for them just Leaving... ) Does that actually mean a PC with Leadership in your campaign is actually more than capable of fathering and overseeing Many small troupes that are generally friendly or loyal to the PC? In other words, groups of followers of former-cohorts?


Bane Wraith wrote:
...Since your approach basically means that the player will have More than one cohort in their career as Leader of all things, and the cohorts aren't actually Dying, ( I see no penalty for them just Leaving... ) Does that actually mean a PC with Leadership in your campaign is actually more than capable of fathering and overseeing Many small troupes that are generally friendly or loyal to the PC? In other words, groups of followers of former-cohorts?

Depends wildly.

1) If the ex-cohort is a ranger that likes to go 'walk-about', yes he will be freindly to the PC, but might never see him again.
2) If the PC is the traveling type and his ex-cohort is a cleric that wants to set up a new shrine, again yes they could be friendly, but still might never see each other.
3) If the PC is a trying to set up a farming community and the ex-cohort is a druid, they might have mutual respect yet still oppose each other over the clearing of forest to farm.
4) If the PC didn't treat the ex-cohort well (some think of the cohort as just better than average cannon fodder), they might not even like each other.
5) If they do still like each other, are not in opposition, and are in the same area; then yes there could be a large number of friendly, helpful, and capable former associates in the area. But the PC has to remember he can't order them around anymore. They have differing priorities and goals. The PC will have to give them reasons and diplomatically talk them into anything major.

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