Psychic Warrior Build Advice


Advice

Liberty's Edge

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I'm considering a half-giant psychic warrior for an upcoming low level game (starting at 1st). I'm having trouble deciding what path to follow. I really like the skill options from the feral path, and I think feral path will be helpful against high AC enemies. Furthermore, half-giants are rare in this world and so finding properly sized equipment may be difficult so again relying on natural attacks could be helpful.

However, I could take the rich parents trait and start with a pair of masterwork weapons (perhaps a reaching / tripping weapon and a great sword) and just get them enchanted as I level. And it is much cheaper to enchant a weapon than it is to enchant an amulet of natural attacks. (And leaves room for an amulet of natural armor.)

The other path I'm considering is the assassin path, chameleon can help make stealth worth while even with me having a 10 dex and wearing heavy armor, but its yet another power selection and I really don't care for the assassin's powers, though its skills are nice (second only to feral warrior path).

I'm pretty sure I'll be taking aesthetic path as my secondary path so I can get offensive precognition as a path power so I can use it as part of the attack action. (I'm really worried about my attack bonus, especially if I don't use natural weapons.)

So my main questions are:

1) Is either manufactured weapons or claws / bite psionic powers clearly superior or are they roughly equal?

2) If I split my focus between the 2 types of combat (while focusing on combat neutral / psionic feats) will I handicap my character? (Say by taking expanded knowledge: astral construct rather than weapon focus: greatsword or claw)


Good to see people using the psionics stuff. Dreamscarred Press is amazing.

As to your questions...:

1.) Early on, natural weapons are very nice, as you are typically making more attacks per round with a higher attack bonus. As you level, manufactured weapons become better through iterative attacks and the lower cost for enchants.

Also, manifesting powers is eating up actions, so keep that in mind as well. It might not be a problem if you have prep rounds or know encounters are coming ahead of time. Otherwise, you are burning a round or two to get yourself ready to fight.

2.) As long as you didn't sink too many resources into natural weapons, this could be viable. You won't be as strong as a specialist but you will have a little flexibility. That said, the differences in damage between claw/claw/bite at 1d8/d6/d6 (which would use your medium size for damage, not powerful build) and 3d6 for a large greatsword will be smaller. That said, the natural weapons are all adding full str to damage, rather than x1.5 for the single melee attack at level one. Also, never forget that with power attack, you will be at -1/+3 with a two-hander versus -1/+2 for the natural weapons.

Another problem in the single weapon vs. natural weapons will be movement. You move, you only get 1 natural attack that is weaker than the single two-hander.

I wouldn't suggest two-weapon fighting. Thematically it is cool but mechanically it suffers from a huge investment cost vs a low payoff.

Sorry if that is a little jumbled. I'm at work and don't have time for much editing.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks for the advice. I have no plans to go with two-weapon fighting, so no worries there.


I am also happy to see people using the psionics stuff from dreamscarred. I suggest checking out the stuff they have released from their upcoming new book.

Half-giant is a great race. I don't think you should be too concerned about finding a weapon. It might cost a bit more for the large version, but you can always have the local blacksmith do a custom job. This would make sense if you have rich parents as well. I'm wondering how your rich parents ended up with a half-giant baby however. That's not important for me to know and is best left to you and your DM.

I agree that the feral and asetic paths are both pretty good. The claws work for hours/level which is like having them all day essentialy. You will definitely run into situations where you wont be able to buff up for the bite. This could be troublesome. It's worth pointing out as well that the offensive power from the ascetic path would not work on the first attack, only the remaining iterative attacks. You can however keep spending points on each attack which is kind of nice. I only see one problem with the feral path. Its maneuver is pretty weak. The ability is already mirrored by a 2nd level power. Sure you have to spend a swift action and points on the power, but the manuver requires you expend focus which is essentially a full-round action you'll be paying later.

Perhaps the best option would be to just learn the claws power normally and stick to using weapons after a couple levels. That will really take advantage of the powerful build racial ability. 2h weapons are always good as are ones with reach. The horsechopper is probably the best reach weapon, but you'll need to have a skilled goblin as a friend to make you a large one of those. There's always the option of simply crafting your own arms as well.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you but you should learn expansion as soon as possible. It's stupid good especially when you get to level 3 and can make it last 10 min/level. Great use of PP's there. It's kind of fun when you hit level 7 and can become huge (weilding gargantuan weapons) as well.

Let me know if that helped at all (I tend to ramble about gaming stuff especialy when typing). I'll be glad to help further as well if you need more advice.

Liberty's Edge

Shizzle69 wrote:
I'm wondering how your rich parents ended up with a half-giant baby however. That's not important for me to know and is best left to you and your DM.

The same way human parents end up with human babies and elves end up with elven babies. :)~

Quote:
It's worth pointing out as well that the offensive power from the ascetic path would not work on the first attack, only the remaining iterative attacks. You can however keep spending points on each attack which is kind of nice.

There's no need to activate the power more than once, its duration will carry through the combat.

Quote:
I only see one problem with the feral path. Its maneuver is pretty weak. The ability is already mirrored by a 2nd level power. Sure you have to spend a swift action and points on the power, but the manuver requires you expend focus which is essentially a full-round action you'll be paying later.

This is true, but I can pay that full round action out of combat. Though to be honest, I don't expect to use the maneuver.

Quote:
Perhaps the best option would be to just learn the claws power normally and stick to using weapons after a couple levels. That will really take advantage of the powerful build racial ability. 2h weapons are always good as are ones with reach. The horsechopper is probably the best reach weapon, but you'll need to have a skilled goblin as a friend to make you a large one of those. There's always the option of simply crafting your own arms as well.

One of the reasons I'm considering the feral path is for the skills. Beyond that, only one other path has a power I think I'll ever actually use which I get anyway. The assassin trance is nice, I admit, as is having stealth, but I just don't think it compares to the options of having the bonus to hit and natural attacks. (The trance and the bonus from offensive precognition will be amazing together.)

Quote:
I'm sure I don't have to tell you but you should learn expansion as soon as possible. It's stupid good especially when you get to level 3 and can make it last 10 min/level. Great use of PP's there. It's kind of fun when you hit level 7 and can become huge (weilding gargantuan weapons) as well.

I'm picking it up at first level. I expect to use expansion and some tripping early on. (Huge size, great strength, and a trip weapon with 15 foot reach ftw.)

Quote:
Let me know if that helped at all (I tend to ramble about gaming stuff especialy when typing). I'll be glad to help further as well if you need more advice.

It is, a great help.


As a half giant psychic warrior, using pathfinder rules, I feel there's one obvious and most viable path.

A large weapon (large sized greatsword is probably the best), psionic weapon/greater psionic weapon, psionic meditation, and vital strike chain. Stay mobile and make big hits, like 6d8+4d6+X or something at level 8 with Expansion active.

Also, Weaponmaster Path seems just plainly superior to other paths. By expending your psionic focus you can take an attack on someone who attacks you in melee (this is on top of any AoO they might incur) and take a 5-foot step thereby stepping out of their reach. It stops full attacks dead a lot of the time and throws a big wrench into pouncing enemies. It's really that good.

Dreamscarred Press

meatrace has a good point about the Weaponmaster. He also gets Acrobatics for the Path Skill bonus - although his other path skills might not be optimal for your build.

Metaphysical Weapon doesn't have a great duration, but minutes / level is still pretty solid, especially at 1st level.

Shizzle has a good point about just taking claws at 1st level as your standard power known... You can use Psychic Reformation later when you don't need it anymore.


jeremy.smith wrote:
Metaphysical Weapon doesn't have a great duration, but minutes / level is still pretty solid, especially at 1st level.

True, but at later levels you can augment it to be hours/level. In our Dark Sun game it almost obviates magic weapons entirely, which is great cuz we po.

Dreamscarred Press

meatrace wrote:
jeremy.smith wrote:
Metaphysical Weapon doesn't have a great duration, but minutes / level is still pretty solid, especially at 1st level.
True, but at later levels you can augment it to be hours/level. In our Dark Sun game it almost obviates magic weapons entirely, which is great cuz we po.

It actually works well with a +1 weapon with special abilities. :) 9 power points turns a +1 flaming sword into a +3 flaming sword.

Liberty's Edge

I can't believe I missed weapon master. . . The +1 competence bonus with melee weapons is exactly what I was wanting and the fact that it has an amazing maneuver is only icing on the cake.

I like the thought about vital strike, I just don't know if its worth it since psychic warriors get a super pounce (at level 4 if you really want to take it that early). Though that would be some disgusting 1 hit damage. And its not like I had a ton of plans for my feats really.


ShadowcatX wrote:

I can't believe I missed weapon master. . . The +1 competence bonus with melee weapons is exactly what I was wanting and the fact that it has an amazing maneuver is only icing on the cake.

I like the thought about vital strike, I just don't know if its worth it since psychic warriors get a super pounce (at level 4 if you really want to take it that early). Though that would be some disgusting 1 hit damage. And its not like I had a ton of plans for my feats really.

The trick with psychic warrior is getting enough attacks to make the pounce worth it. TWF is one way to go, the other is natural weapons. TWF has it's own disadvantages, not the least being the gold cost. Thing is, even with Claws of the Beast and Bite of the Wolf up, you're looking at 3 attacks at 1d6ish+Str, max 3*(1d6+17). ESPECIALLY with weapon master and expansion it's all about milking attacks of opportunity through reach, making one big attack (easily 50+ at level 8) and playing a defensive game with the weaponmaster maneuver.

It's also more economical to go with one big weapon, and you can focus your wealth more towards defensive/utility items.

It comes down to style in the end, but as a half-giant I'd always want to use its abilities to the maximum advantage. If you were playing a race (shifter from eberron or thri-kreen) that had its own natural weapons it'd be a different story.

Liberty's Edge

I'm thinking about going with a tripper build and maybe working in warmind. Seems with all the bonuses a half-giant can get tripping should be fairly easy, though I don't think I'll be able to afford the dex for combat expertise to really take advantage of it.

If the DM approves the alternate racial traits for half-giant I'll be looking at +9 to trip, before expansion, +11 after expansion, at first level.

I am curious, if a weapon that's large size does 3d6, what does increasing its size again make it, 3d8? And then again? 4d8?


If you are planning on tripping you need to be able to afford the 13 int required for the feats. They give a good bonus between the two(+4) and they force a lot of AoO over the course of a battle. Also if you are not using a reach weapon they are necessary to avoid drawing AoO's. It would seem you have chosen a Greatsword based on your question about a large weapon with 3d6 damage. This means you are not using reach and should reconsider the combat expertise.

Concerning above mentioned weapon, I beleive 3d6 becomes 4d6 (same max as 3d8 better min to show that 3d6 is better than 2d8) followed by 6d6. 2d10 becomes 4d8, 1d10 becomes 2d8, so 4d6 becomes 6d6 since 2d6 becomes 3d6. I'm basing this on p 145 of the core book.

Have you thought about powers yet? I am currently trying to pick my next 2nd level power (I only have Animal Affinity so far, I highly suggest it) I really have no clue what to get from there. I have been considering dimension swap, concealing amorpha, strength of my enemy, and Psionic Lions Charge. I think they are all good. I am playing a Psychic fist so my selection is limited, but that list should give you some help in selecting. I would appreciate if you had and suggestions for me as well.

Liberty's Edge

I'm considering using both a great sword and a reach weapon, depending on the circumstances of the battle. I'm just afraid that with a point buy I'm never going to have the points to buy str, dex, con, int and wis.

Consider hustle. Its good for getting a "charge", but it also has several tactical advantages to lion's charge.

What's your build?


Point Buy is rough. I don't know your play style but I would order my stats as such. Str>Con>Wis>Int>Dex. The beauty of being a manifester is you can wear heavy armor no problem. Your dex never needs to be massive as it wont effect your AC. Sure you can only move 20ft/round but hey nobody's perfect when you use point buy. Your reflex will most certainly be poor. Not much you can do about this. Hopefully someone will be hasting you eventually(maybe yourself with the new books) There is always the option of getting a sick nasty physical stats belt, or even just the boots of striding and springing to bring you back up to 30ft/round.

My build is 4 Quinqong Monk Ki Mystic/2 Nomad/3 Psychic Fist so far. I have chosen to focus on grappling and I picked good psion powers that dont depend much on level. They are, Ectoplasmic sheen, Force Screen, Energy Ray(for trolls and such), Foxhole(from the 2nd new book), and Vigor. My psychic Fist powers are currently Expansion, Grip of Iron, and Animal Affinity.

I think I have finally decided on Dimensional Swap for my next power. My character is a self sacrificing type of guy so it should be extremely useful. To give you an idea I have a 34 ac at level 9 and it will be 36 when I level. This can be buffed to 46 if needed which is just great. Not that it matters though as my DM rolls nat 20's on me like a champ. I will also have freedom of movement constant at level 14 so being able to dimension swap my almost swallowed whole buddy and then just slide out of the grapple should be sweet.

I agree that hustle is better than the lion's charge. The problem I have is that My PP pool is not very big. Hustle is just a one time go and only nets me 2 extra attacks currently. I prefer to get powers that let me "cheat" against the rules or that will last for a couple fights or maybe more. For your character that has a full 20 level PP progression, Hustle is going to be great.

I have now turned my attention to the 3rd level powers and I'm quite stumped. I'm positive I'd like the new Physical Acceleration power, but after that I'm stumped. I had considered Emphatic Transfer, Hostile but the SR will really hurt me because of my low manifester level. Not to mention that I currently have Fast Healing 1 (from a custom legacy item, yeh my DM is cool like that) so I can't hold the charge at 50 hp down like some psychic fists might.

Sorry to ramble on about my character

Liberty's Edge

No worries. I'm honestly not a fan of the new physical acceleration power. Its basically a self only haste. If you don't have a wizard you can depend on for haste, then maybe but probably not.

And its an interesting build, a pity your manifester level is so limited, it'd drive me nuts having to keep track of multiple manifester levels, but pooling their pp.


Old thread but I have some advice. Don't forget all the cool combos that can be accessed by investing in a psycrystal. Pick up a Psycrystal and psycrystal containment. At one point you will be casting vigor for tons of temp hp. Cast share pain on your psycrystal now the temp hit points last twice as long. Two feats to become best meat shield ever. Now you can also go anywhere you want as long as you tell your psycrystal to get into position. Dimensional swap with it to get anywhere. Have a hand free? Throw your crystal as a free action and swap. Exploit the weaponmaster maneuver. Something charges in to attack? Expend your psycrystal's focus take your attack at full attack bonus because you are maintaining your focus and can still use the weaponmaster trance. Another enemy charges in? You still have one more focus to execute the maneuver again. Remember too. When you are expanded you have reach it works like this. Enemy moves into threatened square. Enemy exits threatened square to get in melee range. You take AOO. Enemy attacks. You take an attack and a five foot step by expending charge of focus. Your turn. You take a five foot step as part of full attack. Attack at highest attack bonus. Manifest inevitable strike as part of the attack. Take next iterative attack at -5 +20. Enemy's turn. Is standing in threatened square. Five foot steps as part of full attack. Attacks at full bonus. You expend second focus to attack and five foot step. Enemy's iterative attacks are wasted because you are no longer in range...
The psychic warrior is capable of so much finesse AND is super beefy.

As far as weapons go, I recommend taking EWP Bastard sword and wielding it one handed with a shield. Enchant it with Impact for a really nice boost to damage when you are able to cast level 7 expansion.

Another nice back up trick for survivability is get armor of spell storing and store empathic transfer hostile in it. If something smacks you really hard, having the option to deal damage back and refill the hp loss passively is really nice. Heck. If you want to really piss off the GM go ahead and throw spell storing on you shield too!

Anyway. I know this was a late and long winded post but I'm hoping to get someone excited about the psychic warrior half giant. Next to the magus it has been the most fun class I've ever.played and I'm psyched because our group is picking up and old campaign that my level 10PW was in. Super excited about that.
Final shout out to Dream scarred for doing a great job with the psionics content and all the community members that helped bring psionics to Lone Wolf Dev's Hero Lab!


Dang. All that ranting just gave me an idea for what might be the ultimate dip combo Gish! Magus Bladebound Kensai and Psionic Warrior. One could use spell combat to cast one spell per round we part of an attack and then manifest a power as part of an attack! Plus there is an arcana that lets the magus maximize the damage dice dealt by a weapon. A gargantuan bastard sword with impact and vital (vicious?) strike would be 50 + 6d8 + str and enhancement. With ability to cast true strike before the attack it would almost be a guaranteed hit too. That puts the hit in range for the more severe called shot effects. Called shot to the heart vs dragons anyone?

Let me check my math.. Bastard Sword M 1d10, L 2d8, H 3d8, G 4d8, G +Impact 6d8. Worship Falayna and you could be doing 8d8 at level 16.

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