My regular group is about to make new characters and start Kingmaker. Also, this will be our first time playing with Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat, and I really like the new Whip Mastery feats. What characters can make best use of whips?
Some relevant links, for your convenience: Whip, Whip Mastery, Improved Whip Mastery, Greater Whip Mastery
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My regular group is about to make new characters and start Kingmaker. Also, this will be our first time playing with Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat, and I really like the new Whip Mastery feats. What characters can make best use of whips?
Some relevant links, for your convenience: Whip, Whip Mastery, Improved Whip Mastery, Greater Whip Mastery
A Class with Full BAB, High Strength and Tons a feats. Good sir, you are looking for a Fighter.
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My regular group is about to make new characters and start Kingmaker. Also, this will be our first time playing with Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat, and I really like the new Whip Mastery feats. What characters can make best use of whips?
Ypu should also look at the Serpent Lash and Greater Serpent Lash feats. They will add even more options! I also like a Bard for whip combat, automatically proficient and with Bardic music and buff spells you can be almost as effective as a fighter for the CMB checks. Plus it fills a support role very easily instead of trying to do all support and be a prime damage dealer you can support in multiple ways as a bard while still doing all your whip tricks.
A Class with Full BAB, High Strength and Tons a feats. Good sir, you are looking for a Fighter.
I agree that a fighter would probably deal the most damage and be the best at implementing disarm, trip, and grapple maneuvers. Also, with a high strength, weapon training, and weapon specialization, a fighter can make up for the lowly 1d3 base damage of a whip.
You should also look at the Serpent Lash and Greater Serpent Lash feats.
Sweet! Especially with Greater, that would be a powerful battlefield control strategy for a fighter.
I also like a Bard for whip combat, automatically proficient and with Bardic music and buff spells you can be almost as effective as a fighter for the CMB checks.
A bard might be particularly good for Kingmaker, as well.
I've also considered a Rogue(Scout). The ability to move, sneak attack, and still not be within reach of your enemy, enabling you to move again on the next round without provoking.
What do you think about an Arcane Trickster with a whip build? The thought just occured to me and I want to get an idea of pro's and con's.
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Fighter will get the best numbers.
Master summoners need few feats / stat points, so you can make a Dex-based summoner with agile maneuvers and those feats above and wreck havoc (trip them down for your beasties to eat).
It really depends on if you want it to be your primary focus or if you want to do other things as well. For my part I prefer the master summoner, as it's a great "buff" for your summons.
I've often thought that a summoner with a whip would be cool for a few reasons:
1 - You really don't need more than a 14 charisma to be a good support class. Buff, send in Eidolon, summons as necessary.
2 - After you send your eidolon in to attack, the summoner suffers from "now what do I do?" syndrome. Most people say "just hide" until the combat is over, but that's a bit boring.
3 - Conceptually, the "lion tamer" image works really well with the summoner imho. "Attack, you beast!" *cracks whip for emphasis*
4 - You have 3/4 bab and you can wear light armor. You don't want to be on the front line, but a whip gives you some range to stay back.
5 - You can optimize your eidolon to take advantage of the trips with combat reflexes, etc.
This is not the most optimized approach by any stretch of the imagination. Your feats will be very very tight and there will be creatures you either can't or don't want to get close enough to trip.
Still... it seems like a fun concept to me. Just focus on str, with a 14 or so dex and try to use a whip with the "dueling" special ability from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
Regards -
Xykal
How does your group treat 3rd party material? If you allow it, then the blacksnake archetype from The Genius Guide to Martial Archetypes can turn any class into one that is good with a whip. It has all sorts of whip based abilities, some of which make the whip mastery feats redundant (and you can get them earlier in your career).
Cleric of Calistria. Whip-crackin', 3/4 bab, and full spellcasting FTW!
Cleric of Calistria. Whip-crackin', 3/4 bab, and full spellcasting FTW!
Cleric (or Oracle with one more feat) of Calistra sounds cool. Clerics are pretty good at combat, but risk attacks of opportunity while casting in melee. Using a one handed weapon with reach would allow a less risky method of mixing spells and melee.
How does your group treat 3rd party material?
We won't be using any third party material. Thanks for the suggestion though.
I've often thought that a summoner with a whip would be cool for a few reasons. . .
Do you think a Druid would do that just as well? I like the look and feel of a beast tamer with a whip, and I can see the strategic advantage of combining a pet class with 15' reach, but I'm not a fan of the Summoner class. (It's the only class I'm unwilling to play.)
What do you think about an Arcane Trickster with a whip build?
Aside from being short on feats, I think whip would be a great weapon for an Arcane Trickster. Like any melee/caster, the reach would keep him from provoking attacks of opportunity while casting.
After reading Serpent Lash & Greater Serpent Lash, but I'm really starting to lean toward Fighter. The ability to trip, disarm, or reposition two foes with a standard action at 15' range seems like an outstanding battlefield control option.
How about a Magus? Delivering spells with a whip sounds cool. May not be the most effective Magus build, but rule of cool trumps...
Actually a magus using true strike + spell combat can make some really hard to beat trip and disarm checks.
At level 10, with a +2 whip(use your arcane pool to make it a +5 whip), +3 strength bonus, +7 BAB, +20 from true strike -2 from spell combat = +33 CMB to trip or disarm
I would say the ability to have an almost unbeatable trip or disarm 2 or 3 times a day is pretty cool.
Add in the ability to deliver touch spells(chill touch, vampiric touch, ghoul touch, etc) with the reach of the whip, and you get a very fun character.
After reading Serpent Lash & Greater Serpent Lash, but I'm really starting to lean toward Fighter. The ability to trip, disarm, or reposition two foes with a standard action at 15' range seems like an outstanding battlefield control option.
Sounds like the way to go if you really want the best-of-the-best whip master. Add a few feats to enhance your movement options and weapon specialization, and you'd make Indiana Jones run away crying!
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After reading Serpent Lash & Greater Serpent Lash, but I'm really starting to lean toward Fighter. The ability to trip, disarm, or reposition two foes with a standard action at 15' range seems like an outstanding battlefield control option.Sounds like the way to go if you really want the best-of-the-best whip master. Add a few feats to enhance your movement options and weapon specialization, and you'd make Indiana Jones run away crying!
Or it would just make him get a gun and shoot you with a don't-care attitude while you are doing awesome dancing moves with your whip.
Or it would just make him get a gun and shoot you with a don't-care attitude while you are doing awesome dancing moves with your whip.
Best. Scene. Ever.
Also, totally improvised, because Ford had a case of Montezuma's Revenge and wasn't up to filming a fight scene, from what I've read.
Inquisitor. Bane. Instant Belmont. :)
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For a fighter, consider something like this (format: feats; class abilities)...
Human, Int 13, high Dex, Free Hand Fighter archetype (APG)
01 - EWP Whip, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Whip)
02 - Whip Mastery; Deceptive Strike 1
03 - Combat Expertise; Elusive 1
04 - Dodge
05 - Improved Whip Mastery; Singleton 1
06 - Improved Trip; Deceptive Strike 2
07 - Serpent Lash; Elusive 2
08 - Greater Whip Mastery
09 - Greater Weapon Focus (whip); Timely Tip
10 - Improved Reposition; Deceptive Strike 3
11 - Greater Serpent Lash; Elusive 3, Singleton 2
12 - Greater Reposition
13 - Improved Disarm; Interference
14 - Greater Trip; Deceptive Strike 4
15 - Greater Disarm; Elusive 4
16 - Greater Feint
17 - Mobility; Singleton 3
18 - Sidestep; Deceptive Strike 5
19 - Improved Sidestep; Elusive 5, Reversal
20 - Disruptive; Weapon Mastery (whip)
Do you think a Druid would do that just as well? I like the look and feel of a beast tamer with a whip, and I can see the strategic advantage of combining a pet class with 15' reach, but I'm not a fan of the Summoner class. (It's the only class I'm unwilling to play.)
For the beast tamer idea, you could take a look at the Animal Speaker (bard) archetype. You can summon animals, buff them (and yourself) with Inspire Courage and... use a whip!
You could save a feat by taking Heirloom weapon as a trait and being prof. with your granddaddy's old cowhide. LOL Or in the Indiana Jones style your father passes you the torch(whip).
Good idea, and I noticed an error in my build, so here's a revised version:
Human, Int 13, high Dex, Free Hand Fighter (APG)
Traits: Heirloom Weapon (EWP Whip), Threatening Defender (from Cheliax, Empire of Devils)
01 - Dodge, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Whip)
02 - Whip Mastery; Deceptive Strike 1
03 - Combat Expertise; Elusive 1
04 - Mobility
05 - Improved Whip Mastery; Singleton 1
06 - Improved Trip; Deceptive Strike 2
07 - Serpent Lash; Elusive 2
08 - Greater Whip Mastery
09 - Greater Weapon Focus (whip); Timely Tip
10 - Improved Reposition; Deceptive Strike 3
11 - Greater Serpent Lash; Elusive 3, Singleton 2
12 - Greater Reposition
13 - Improved Disarm; Interference
14 - Improved Feint; Deceptive Strike 4
15 - Greater Trip; Elusive 4
16 - Greater Disarm
17 - Greater Feint; Singleton 3
18 - Sidestep; Deceptive Strike 5
19 - Improved Sidestep; Elusive 5, Reversal
20 - Disruptive; Weapon Mastery (whip)
...too late to edit, but switch Dodge with Combat Expertise there. >.<
Heirloom Weapon, sadly, does not work that way any more. You can't take an Exotic weapon with it.
Darn it, that throws the build back off again. x.x
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I'm playing a Whip based Magus (Kensai archetype) right now. I went with kensai to get the whip proficiency and the weapon focus (whip)[which is a pre-req for the whip mastery feats] out of the way, as otherwise you'll never have enough feats to get the whip mastery feat that gives you threatend squares. He is fun, but not horribly optimized (the threat range on a whip sucks, and magus benefit greatly from spellstike crits). Other than that, its pretty fun to channel shocking grasp through the whip, or true strike disarm.
This is exactly what I was thinking of doing as well for fun and flavor... and started reading this thread to see if it would pop up... glad it did
Thanks for the great ideas, everyone.
No one has mentioned the Scorpion Whip
It fixes a major problem with the whip; its inability to deal lethal damage, plus it also uses a d4 instead of d3, not much of an improvement but still, nonetheless. Also says that if you are proficient with whips, you are also proficient with it.
Half-Elves can get the alternate racial trait that trades skill focus for a weapon proficiency, so if you don't want to play human, that is an alternative.
The beauty of the whip is that you can do maneuvers from afar without wasting so many feats, you don't get the +2 bonus from the feats, but don't get the AOO, assuming you do it from afar.