Newbie Dumb Question #2 "inside" reach and attacks of opportunity


Rules Questions


I did a quick search and didnt see a ready answer. My apologies if I missed it

I just read the rule regarding reach weapons and noted that reach weapons do not allow attack to adjacent foes (assuming no house rules).

I assume this also includes attacks of opportunity?

for example - a spell caster is standing next to a foe (for some dumb reason) who has a reach weapon. Mister Wizard casts a spell that would provoke an attack.

- medium foe cant attack *with that weapon* (but could maybe punch Mister Wizard in the snot locker...which I find to be an amusing thought)

- side note: a large creature could make an adjacent attack with a natural weapon (Mister Wizard gets pasted by an ogre fist)

does that sound right?


zerhackermann wrote:

I did a quick search and didnt see a ready answer.

I assume this also includes attacks of opportunity?

for example - a spell caster is standing next to a foe (for some dumb reason) who has a reach weapon. Mister Wizard casts a spell that would provoke an attack.

- medium foe cant attack *with that weapon* (but could maybe punch Mister Wizard in the snot locker...which I find to be an amusing thought)

- side note: a large creature could make an adjacent attack with a natural weapon (Mister Wizard gets pasted by an ogre fist)

does that sound right?

Do you get an attack of opportunity with a natural or improvised weapon? I thought you did not.

And if you do not have improved unarmed strike, do you provoke an attack of opportunity for doing an attack of opportunity?


If the character (or creature) has a natural weapon (such as a claw) and the limb or part of the creature is free to attack, it can make an attack of opportunity with it. Improvised weapons I'm not sure of, they would definitely get the -4 for being improvised. As far as provoking, you cannot provoke an AoO with an AoO. Can't remember where exactly, but I saw it in the combat section somewhere.


You only get attacks of opportunity from foes in (or moving out of) threatened squares.

In case of an opponent in an adjacent square, you only get an AoO if you threaten adjacent squares.

With a reach weapon, you don't threaten adjacent squares.

You don't normally threaten when unarmed, so you can't make AoOs.
You do threaten if you have Improved Unarmed Strike (since you count as armed then), so you can make AoOs then (and don't provoke while doing so).
You do threaten with improvised and with natural weapons.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Btw, if you're using reach weapons and still want to be able to attack foes in adjacent squares, you could always use armor spikes instead of spending a feat on IUS - or take some levels in either the Polearm Master or the Phalanx Soldier fighter archetypes, which both circumvent that problem differently.


What I meant was if on the outside chance, one combatant began adjacent to an opponent who had a reach weapon. The combatant takes an action that would provoke an attack (but is not an attack of opportunity itself)like casting a spell, drinking a potion or lighting a torch (why? who knows, players do odd things) - it is, apparent according to the rules* that the opponent does not get the attack of opportunity even thought some fool is standing right next to him mumbling and waving his hands or fumbling up a potion.

It seems to me that in many circumstances, the opponent should be able to do something opportune. Even with a rather stiff penalty. Whether that would be the smart thing to do tactically is another thing altogether. I guess maybe it is a gm discretion sort of thing.

*"Performing certain actions within a threatened square" core pg 180


There are many actions other than movement that provoke AoO's, such as spellcasting, standing up from prone, digging in your pack for an item, etc.

As for attacking foes in adjacent squares, you could always just use the gauntlets from a set of armor (they count as weapons) such as plate, breastplate, even leather armor.


And I may be getting ahead of myself (still reading core through slowly) if an opponent has reach due to natural size - ogre, etc) do they have the same "aura" reach where adjacent squares arent threatened as with pole arms?


No, a creature with 'natural' reach, such as an ogre, threatens all squares adjacent as well as all squares 10 feet out. Makes the larger creatures really dangerous.

Edit: that is, only for natural weapons. Any reach weapons they use, such as polearms and whips, still cannot attack into the squares adjacent to them.


to clarify, if one does not have improved unarmed strike, they do not threaten with an unarmed strike. (not ogres, but normal humans who dont have a natural attack)

so you couldnt punch the wizard in the shnoz for casting a spell, as you dont threaten the square he is in, if you only had a polearm.

a creature with a natural attack that has reach by merit of size does threaten all squares, its only reach weapons really that dont threaten the closer ones. So the ogre COULD punch the wizard in the shnoz (slam attack)

Grand Lodge

You threaten a square if you can attack that square with your melee weapon (with various exceptions, such as standard unarmed strikes and whips). You don't threaten an adjacent square with a reach weapon.


Thems the rules, and changing them makes reach weapons significantly better.

There's a reason most reach fighters have armor spikes, spiked gauntlets, etc.

The Exchange

Starglim wrote:
You threaten a square if you can attack that square with your melee weapon (with various exceptions, such as standard unarmed strikes and whips). You don't threaten an adjacent square with a reach weapon.

Actually, some of the new feats in Ultimate Combat allow you to not only threaten with a whip, but also to threaten anywhere within its reach, including adjacent. They made the whip much sweeter!

Liberty's Edge

This is why most fighters I know have armor spikes. Many fighters use reach weapons, so cannot threaten adjacent squares. Armor spikes allow them to get around that limitation, since the spikes do threaten adjacent squares.


Isengrim wrote:

Do you get an attack of opportunity with a natural or improvised weapon? I thought you did not.

And if you do not have improved unarmed strike, do you provoke an attack of opportunity for doing an attack of opportunity?

You can totally provoke AoO through doing an AoO.

For instance, there are three combatants standing in a L shape. One of the combatants on the end drinks a potion. The one in the middle knows he can only win by knocking him prone, and so he uses his AoO as a trip attack. This (if you don't have the trip tier feats) provokes an AoO from both other combatants. Say the first combatant, Mr Potion drinker, decides to attempt a disarm with his AoO. This will possibly provoke an additional AoO from the combatant who is tripping. IF he has combat reflexes.

In this above situation being familar with grapple, and multiple characters in grapple, would probably be a good thing.


zerhackermann wrote:
And I may be getting ahead of myself (still reading core through slowly) if an opponent has reach due to natural size - ogre, etc) do they have the same "aura" reach where adjacent squares arent threatened as with pole arms?

Creatures with reach greater than 5ft threaten all squares within whatever their reach is. That applies to natural attacks such as bites or claws or tentacles. (Note: some monsters only have extended reach with specific natural weapons.)

A giant with a 10ft reach wielding a club threatens all squares within 10ft of him.

A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

That rule tells us that the same giant when using a Large reach weapon threatens squares 15ft to 20ft away from him but does not threaten squares closer... with that weapon. The same giant still threatens with any natural attacks he has. So if the giant's stats say he as 10ft reach with his... oh... bite attack, he has the ability to threaten all squares within 20ft but has two unique bands which require attacking with different weapons. Far out he uses the weapon, up close he bites.

So that all said, you can only attack squares you threaten. Ever. For normal attacks and attacks of opportunity. That's why I keep highlighting that word.

For Joe Average Fighter Guy, humanoids don't get natural attacks; they don't threaten any squares without a weapon in hand. You need Improved Unarmed Strike to threaten with your fists/feet/head/whatever. You technically are able to make attacks with improvised weapons, so arguably you threaten with them, but are specifically not allowed to make AoO, so arguably you don't. Improvised weapons are the weird edge condition... hence improvised.

Hope this helps.

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