If I use Armor as DR, I plan to add Ref save into Defense. After all, isn't Reflex all about avoiding damage?
Mmmh... I think it's a little bit too much...
Most people forgot that the + enhancement bonus on armor do not goes to DR but goes into Defense... ;)
So at most it's a 9 AC loss for a 9 DR gained... It seems quite balanced to me...
The only thing I do in my game is skipping those rules on bypassing DR... :p
Oh and for the Touch AC it's simple, since from the beginning touch ac doesn't take armor into account then Touch AC bypass armor DR... period... :)
Actual play update:
Armor as DR: played out as I feared. Best Armor as DR systems remain Conan RPG (#1) & Iron Heroes (#2).
Called shots: a keeper. Good risk vs. reward mechanic and allows for a greater level of specificity when desired w/o undoing the standard system.
Piecemeal armor: hasn't really been used yet. I still have concerns about broken combos but I view that as largely equal to other GM rulings on other gear, esp. magic items.
Wounds & Vigor: dropped after 2 sessions. Greatly increased combat length with little-to-no game benefit. Just isn't worth the effort.
In summary, the section that was the primary reason for purchasing the book underwhelmed big-time. It clearly suffered from limited playtesting and limited implementation/wordcount.
There's still plenty to love about this book, but the weakness of the Variant Rule chapter does much to undermine the Ultimate Combat title.
been using piecemeal armor for awhile now; haven't had any real problems with it really. while starting characters can end up with a slightly higher AC or the same one for less GP, those are mitigated in the long run if you use random item generation for gear as they dont have listed any of the "best" armor.
also i noticed most people have been listing chain torso in alot of their piecemeal armor combo's and i just thought id point out that at the bottom of table 5-9 "torso armor pieces" it says it only counts as light if used by itself, so adding any additional armor pieces results in medium armor and reduced speed...
Wounds and Vigour: The fact that some effects can directly target vigour (i.e. negative damage) seems to be problematic. Channel negative energy has just become way scary.
Good lord, clerics become really terrifying with that system. Especially if they used some incense of meditation recently. That can turn many of the mid level inflict spells into save or dies or just dies. For example, cause serious wounds (3rd level) maximized deals up to 39 damage with a will save for half. With an 18 Con, that will 1-shot you on a failed save, and put you in critical/staggered condition on a successful save.
Some encounters would be effective impossible to overcome like that too. 12 1st level clerics (like a small cult) is only around CR 6. Except they could all just open the battle with Channel Energy and deal 42 wound damage, save vs 12 for up to 1/2 damage. You'd need a 21 Constitution to avoid getting 1-shot like that.
My group uses Called Shots and the Critcal Hit and Fumble decks, we all have a good time.
i use called shots but i raised the dcs quite a bit
I was using the called shot system in my RotRL campaign, we've been playing PF since it first came out and have settled into a few common house rules but all of my players have complained that we never adopted a called shot system. So here's where things got messy, we commonly used the Hero Points system for PF which allows you a +8 bonus to a d20 roll if you declare the use of the hero point before the roll so my PC's would wait until they got to the BBEG and then they would all use their first attacks to make called shots, usually to the BBEG's head (which is a -5 penalty) using a hero point (with the +8 and the -5 they net a +3 to their attack). At low levels this was incredibly devastating to the game on my end but the players seemed to be loving it, especially after a 1 hit knockout from a called shot to Chief Ripnugget's dome.
How is making an opponent sickened "incredibly devastating"?
My main criticism of the called shot system is that it's almost always useless unless you get a critical hit. The only exception I can think of it shooting a creature in the leg if it has a devastating charge.
i changed the dc based on the size of the critter and i made the dc harder for things the eye ya that's a +15
so to shout a man in the eye is a +15 to his ac . but to hit a beholder in its titanic front eye +6 in think off the top of my head
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Making the effects of a called shot minor was a conscious design choice, barring massive damage or a critical hit. The system's meant to run within the reality established by the Core Rules, in that damage taken generally isn't majorly debilitating until you are dead. Basically, a system where any shot to the head leaves you dead or crippled doesn't mesh well with the core assumptions of Pathfinder RPG. Instead, it leaves you reeling slightly unless the hit was particularly significant, as expressed by either being a confirmed critical hit or a hit for large amounts of hit point damage.
Making the effects of a called shot minor was a conscious design choice, barring massive damage or a critical hit.
That makes sense, of course, but it's a little bit odd to have a system where hitting your enemy in the hand has only a tiny chance of making him drop his weapon (for instance). That's, like, Called Shots 101!
I don't really like some of the called shots. You would think a head shot might add additional damage. I would have it as an increase to your crit threat by 2 and deals an additional dice of damage or something.
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I don't really like some of the called shots. You would think a head shot might add additional damage. I would have it as an increase to your crit threat by 2 and deals an additional dice of damage or something.
Ah, the new tactics that would create. Greataxes would be a heck of a lot more popular. "I attack his face!" *hits* 3d12 damage. Booya. "I attack his face!" *hits with an 18, rolls and confirms* 5d12 damage. Booya-baby!
True Strike + Bigger Damage Dice = high burst damage at low levels. :)
Making the effects of a called shot minor was a conscious design choice, barring massive damage or a critical hit. The system's meant to run within the reality established by the Core Rules, in that damage taken generally isn't majorly debilitating until you are dead. Basically, a system where any shot to the head leaves you dead or crippled doesn't mesh well with the core assumptions of Pathfinder RPG. Instead, it leaves you reeling slightly unless the hit was particularly significant, as expressed by either being a confirmed critical hit or a hit for large amounts of hit point damage.
Eh, I was hoping that wouldn't be the mentality that was going to be considered when making the rules for called shots. The game is abstract, but shouldn't the concept of called shots be to remove some of that? If I hit someone in the head with a greatsword or an arrow, you would think I would score more damage and the potential for way more. It doesn't have to super deadly, because characters in this game are pretty superhuman, for the most part.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Eh, I was hoping that wouldn't be the mentality that was going to be considered when making the rules for called shots. The game is abstract, but shouldn't the concept of called shots be to remove some of that? If I hit someone in the head with a greatsword or an arrow, you would think I would score more damage and the potential for way more. It doesn't have to super deadly, because characters in this game are pretty superhuman, for the most part.
To balance that, called shots would either need to be a lot harder to pull off, or would need to be mechanically similar to existing options like vital strike. In any case, with a head shot with an arrow, you do have the potential for devastating effect. Just not the assurance.
Eh, I was hoping that wouldn't be the mentality that was going to be considered when making the rules for called shots. The game is abstract, but shouldn't the concept of called shots be to remove some of that? If I hit someone in the head with a greatsword or an arrow, you would think I would score more damage and the potential for way more. It doesn't have to super deadly, because characters in this game are pretty superhuman, for the most part.To balance that, called shots would either need to be a lot harder to pull off, or would need to be mechanically similar to existing options like vital strike. In any case, with a head shot with an arrow, you do have the potential for devastating effect. Just not the assurance.
The head shot rules I made up a few posts above I think is a good way to represent that. It's a standard action at -5, the penalty is already pretty big.
The head shot rules I made up a few posts above I think is a good way to represent that. It's a standard action at -5, the penalty is already pretty big.Eh, I was hoping that wouldn't be the mentality that was going to be considered when making the rules for called shots. The game is abstract, but shouldn't the concept of called shots be to remove some of that? If I hit someone in the head with a greatsword or an arrow, you would think I would score more damage and the potential for way more. It doesn't have to super deadly, because characters in this game are pretty superhuman, for the most part.To balance that, called shots would either need to be a lot harder to pull off, or would need to be mechanically similar to existing options like vital strike. In any case, with a head shot with an arrow, you do have the potential for devastating effect. Just not the assurance.
-5 is not that much of a penalty except at low levels. At high levels, a -5 is a laughable penalty, considering the benefit of a called shot.
-5 is not that much of a penalty except at low levels. At high levels, a -5 is a laughable penalty, considering the benefit of a called shot.The head shot rules I made up a few posts above I think is a good way to represent that. It's a standard action at -5, the penalty is already pretty big.Eh, I was hoping that wouldn't be the mentality that was going to be considered when making the rules for called shots. The game is abstract, but shouldn't the concept of called shots be to remove some of that? If I hit someone in the head with a greatsword or an arrow, you would think I would score more damage and the potential for way more. It doesn't have to super deadly, because characters in this game are pretty superhuman, for the most part.To balance that, called shots would either need to be a lot harder to pull off, or would need to be mechanically similar to existing options like vital strike. In any case, with a head shot with an arrow, you do have the potential for devastating effect. Just not the assurance.
-5 is still enough of a penalty for a somewhat small benefit. I mentioned that it was a standard action, but I was wrong it's actually a full round action to pull off one. The -5 isn't exactly the only penalty, here. Even the -5 can increase to a much higher penalty by just using a ranged weapon.
The called shot benefits are hardly worth it unless it's a crit or something as they are.
Imho, UC (and UM) Variant Rules feel like typical houserules (e.g. increasing the complexity without offering anything).
I've used Called Shots and Wounds/Vigor. I like them both. W&V reminds me a lot of BODY and STUN damage from HERO so it's easy for me to wrap my head around. It hasn't extended combat by much really. Most of the players in the group I ran with do enough damage to destroy things even with the CON boost. And I found it makes first level a little bit more survivable than normal. I could see it getting a little more complicated when adding Armor Class as DR, but I haven't tried that one yet. No real interest in trying Piecemeal armor.
I use called shots, and in theory, the dueling rules, although no one has actually made use of them. Piecemeal armor probably won't get used much either. What was the concern with brokenness?
While I like the theory of Armor as DR, this particular system doesn't really strike my fancy as what I need. BP, can you share the Conan system you seem fond of?