Alright, I am a long time GM, I've done games in many systems over the years, and found that some are more flawed than others. Our regular Pathfinder game is coming to an end do to people moving out of state, but others have stepped up and proposed that to begin playing a different game completely...
What they are hoping for is a semi-original zombie filled post-apocalyptic roleplaying game, and it's got me fairly excited... I'm writing up an original world synopsis, the only thing we are lacking at the moment is a system in which to run our game. Alright so first let me give you the broad strokes of what the game is to be, after which I will tell you what I want out of a system, and list those systems which I am considering. I hope to get some feedback on what you think of these systems, the upsides and the downsides (if you have experience with them), whether you think the particular system fits my needs, and I'd appreciate if you could steer me towards any system or game which is more fitting than those listed...
The Pitch:
The setting is very near-future earth, the characters are to be survivors but other than that relatively normal humans, in the worst imaginable situation. I am planning on populating this world with a few types of zombies, human cannibals, and probably minor (not completely ridiculous) human and animal mutants. Since the game will be set in the southwest, other adversities I plan on using include lack of water, vital supplies, ammunition, and food stuffs (all pretty standard post-apocalyptic fare). My goal is to make every encounter TRULY perilous, and if not thought through, probably deadly. I figure the zombie problem will have arisen AFTER the apocalyptic disaster, which I figure will be a perfect storm of complete multinational financial collapse, concurrent with a global pandemic (culling roughly 85% of the human population), and unchecked scientific avarice (leading to mutations (NOT superheroes!!! Just speed boosts and strength increases and such) and the zombies). All of my players, and myself, want the entire game to be a struggle to survive.
We are completely happy with this world, and don't want to edit it, or change it for a system! Prepackaged post-apocalyptic settings will most likely not work for us...
What I need from a system:
My players are all experienced roleplayers, and each have been in one game or another with me for the last 20 years or so, and here's what they think the system needs, along with what I know I need. What we are hoping for is a system which is more about roleplaying than "ruleplaying", which will give me the freedom to make the game suspenseful and challenging, even when we are not bashing zombie brains. From the system, ABOVE ALL we need grittiness, realism, and believability; I need a system which can handle the survival horror roleplaying without much trouble, and something which, while allowing us to improve our characters as we progress, is not going to allow us to be able to become overpowered in a few sessions. Lastly, I have to note that I do not intend to use All Flesh Must Be Eaten, because after running a few Buffy the Vampire Slayer games a few years back, by the end of one "season" (less than 6 months of weekly "episodes") all of the PC's were WICKEDLY OVERPOWERED, even though I reduced experience I gave them to the system minimum. I am loathe to use the Uni-system again, even though the rest of the system was truly great.
Here's the possible roleplaying systems I am considering: (PLEASE tell me your opinions on any you've played, PLEASE... I am desperate!)
BESM roleplaying system
Castle Falkenstein roleplaying system
D6 roleplaying system
Risus roleplaying system
Tri-Stat DX roleplaying system
If I'm missing something obvious, let me know please! Thanks for any help, seriously... We can get started as soon as I know what system we are going to use and generate the bad guys, so any help would be AWESOME!
^ word!
I'm not familiar with any of the systems you've mentioned but I'm going to give a second nomination for GURPS. You can run a zombie apocalypse with just the basic system book. If you use 3E that's just one book that I bet you can get used. If you want the latest (4E) that's two books. If you feel like getting detailed and specific with weaponry you might also want the High Tech supplement, which catalogs just about everything available today. If not, you can just use basic stats for pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc. and call them whatever you want.
If you want to check out the system you can download GURPS Lite for free. If you want to stick with rules-light for actual play then you could easily use that free product for the whole game.
Hope that helps.
M
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Fourthing the GURPS recommendation. My group played a Zombie setting using the rule last summer and it came out really well. Plus there's a free java based character tool out there that works really well.
I haven't played "All Flesh Must be Eaten", so I can't vouch for the rules, but it's an RPG that seems to do well for itself and was designed specifically for the genre.
Well you are missing two obvious games there....
1) All Flesh Must Be Eaten which is the game about Zombie Apocoalypse. Uses a very simple rule set and is pretty much generic enough to cover any type of zombie apocalypse.
2) Than there is Dead Reign from Palladium...which is another zombie apocalypse game though it has a very strong back story that might not work with your intent.
Edited: Ninja by Matthew Winn of All Flesh Must Be Eaten...but having play it...I don't why anyone would pick GURPs over it for a zombie apocalypse game.
BTW, the OP said " I have to note that I do not intend to use All Flesh Must Be Eaten, because..."
M
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I'll also put my +1 for GURPS as well.
World of Darkness could fit your needs as well. I'm not talking Vampire, Werewolf or the other variants. It would kinda be like a Hunters Hunted concept but limited to zombies instead of all the other beasties.
As for AFMBE, if you start the players off as Survivors (that is standard humans, not Survivors, so they start with a lower point build), axe the "Inspired" concept and related material and limit the XP (if you want to slow advancement this is the best way to do it), then it very well may fit your needs and, if you already have a copy of that system, you won't need to shell out for more game product (if that is a concern).
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There is the Army of Darkness game, but it uses the Unisystem and may have the same issues as Buffy.
Personally, I'd use the Call of Cthulhu rules. It's nicely detailed and is built for horror. If you want a more forgiving CoC campaign you can try the Savage Worlds Realms of Cthulhu product. It's not as detailed and investigators are not overwhelmingly destined to go insane or die.
BTW, the OP said " I have to note that I do not intend to use All Flesh Must Be Eaten, because..."
M
Ah...missed that part. Did not play Buffy much(like 3 sessions before it fell apart) but play All Flesh Must Be Eaten for a whole campaign and really did not notice the PCs becoming overpowered.
Than I have to say Dead Reign is probably the best bet as it is built for a zombie apocalypse game and has rules for everything the OP wanted.
I don't know if AFMBE has the same sort of xp system, as Buffy. If that's the only real issue with the game it seems like it would be an easy fix, and you know it was intended to run exactly that type of campaign. I've run a couple of one shots using that system where the characters were all norms, and we always had a really good time and found the system worked really good for doing that type of game.
I doubt Savage Worlds would give you quite the grittiness you are looking for, but it does have a zombie apocalypse setting, and I believe a zombie apocalypse adventure path that you might want to mine for ideas. They can be found as downloads on drivethrurpg.
I'm not sure what system I'd go to (probably AFMBE, despite your misgivings). However you may also want to consider checking out the West End games d6 system. It can be downloaded for free on drivethrurpg, so there's no real reason not to check it out. I have a friend who has been playing in a modern campaign with that system, and he really likes it. Some of the systems you mentioned seem a little on the rules lite side to give you the sort of gritty realistic feel its sounds like you want.
Other systems that pop into mind are Twilight 2000, BRP, World of Darkness, Don't Rest your Head, Trail of Cthulhu (if you want investigative over action- doesn't sound like you really want that).
For a zombie survival game, I really feel like you need a system that deals well with called shots and hit locations. You always need to be making those head shots or taking out their legs to slow them down. I haven't seen a lot of systems that really seem to do that well (even AFMBE doesn't do it that well, maybe Aces and Eights, but its more of a western game). It would probably also be good to have a system that deals with fear and sanity because really good zombie horror is always more to do with the psychology of the characters than just shooting zombies.
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I would say Basic RolePlaying: The Chaosium Roleplaying System would be worth a look. One book, all the coolest of Call of Cthulhu but with many more options (mutantants for you cannibals?).
In terms of RPG's I have yet to find one so versitile and player/GM friendly. Great for new and old players.
There is a good reason the rules haven't changed much over the last 30+ years - they work. Softcover printed 2008 and hardcover 2010, can't accuse the game of not being contemporary!
Sounds like a nice setting, good luck with which ruleset you decide on.
S.
. What we are hoping for is a system which is more about roleplaying than "ruleplaying", which will give me the freedom to make the game suspenseful and challenging, even when we are not bashing zombie brains. From the system, ABOVE ALL we need grittiness, realism, and believability; I need a system which can handle the survival horror roleplaying without much trouble, and something which, while allowing us to improve our characters as we progress, is not going to allow us to be able to become overpowered in a few sessions.
I stand a good chance at getting pilloried for this, but Twilight:2K13. It's a bit clumsy for the first sentence, but applies superbly for the next sentences.
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Have you heard about Outbreak: Undead? (aka. Your Zombie survival plan will fail)
Percentile/skill based, survival post-apoctalyptic resource gathering system, and it's pretty deadly, etc.
And, it comes with a system to generate yourself as a character.
It's a bit crunchy, but it's purpose built for post-apoc zombie/undead gaming, and it got some shout-outs at the Ennies/GenCon.
I have no real problem with crunchiness, I have been running a Kingmaker campaign, and am still running a Star Wars d20 (RCRB edition not Saga) campaign. We are, as a group, wanting to move away from that type of rules intense roleplaying, toward a robust, but more much streamlined system.
Okay, I have a few question to toss out here, and they may be complex to answer, sorry about that...
GURPS looks awesome, I have been aware of it for like 10 years, but never run/played anything in that system... What're the big differences between 3E and 4E GURPS? What is the biggest draw for GURPS in the type of campaign I am planning on running? What are the dice requirements?
I've not run a WoD game since we played Vampire: the Masquerade maybe 12 years ago... We aren't really looking seriously at it as an option...
Aren't the Call of Cthulhu rules just modified d20? It truly does sound like an awesome system if it has the whole madness dynamic!
I truly know very little about Alternity at all, anything that suggests it would be a good system for me?
Never even heard of Dead Reign...
What's Don't Rest Your Head (what dice or whatnot does it use)?
What's the synopsis of the Trail of Cthulhu system (what dice or whatnot does it use)?
For a zombie survival game, I really feel like you need a system that deals well with called shots and hit locations. You always need to be making those head shots or taking out their legs to slow them down. I haven't seen a lot of systems that really seem to do that well... It would probably also be good to have a system that deals with fear and sanity because really good zombie horror is always more to do with the psychology of the characters than just shooting zombies.
^ this is EXACTLY what I am talking about...
So describe the Twilight:2K13 system please; what's the system like? Any upsides to the system? Downsides?
Outbreak: Undead looks okay, but I'd seriously need to hear from some roleplayers who have used it and get their description of the system... Anyone out there who has played it?
The only upswing to the D6 system is that most of us are familiar with the system, having played a long term D6 Star Wars campaign back in the 1990's... We love it, you can become very highly powered characters, but nearly perfectly stay balanced with the enemies (depending on the GM of course)...
I have the Castle Falkenstein book, it's a fantasy steampunk setting originally, but it is modular enough to use for most anything... And it uses CARDS instead of dice, I've never actually played it, but it's been around forever!
Tri-Stat DX looks like it could be made to fit my needs well, it has a varied scale depending on whether you want to play normal characters or superheroes... Very cool, and I've done a single one-shot with it (d12 steampunk) and we all liked it, though it is strange!
We looked into True20, and have done an old west and a bronze age campaign with it... While it worked EXCELLENTLY for those campaigns, it is not really able to provide the grittiness we all want in the system...
Anyway, thanks SO much for the help you've already provided, and any information you can help with would be awesome!
What is the basic breakdown of the Chaosium system?
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"GURPS looks awesome, I have been aware of it for like 10 years, but never run/played anything in that system... What're the big differences between 3E and 4E GURPS? What is the biggest draw for GURPS in the type of campaign I am planning on running? What are the dice requirements?"
There aren't a whole lot of differences between 3E and 4E. The fundamentals are the same but they've cleaned up a lot of stuff and made play a little more streamlined. I don't know the details because I never really played 3E (though I had a few books) but have read others' mostly positive feedback on the SJG forum.
I'd say the biggest draw is that it's pretty much an open toolset. Creating a zombie in GURPS (if you can't find one somewhere on the net or in a book) is relatively easy because any creature is made the same way characters are. You can customize your base zombie easily: lost an arm? Just add the one-armed disadvantage. The basic set has all of the basic guns and equipment you need and, if you want more just get High Tech and hand out Desert Eagles and MP5s. If you want to follow up with Zombies in Space you can do that too...with the basic book or maybe some of the goodies in Ultra Tech. The good news is that many of the pre-4E books work fine with 4E, with minor changes.
Dice are easy: just D6. You need 3 for basic tests, maybe more for damage rolls. The basic mechanic is to roll under your skill or attribute. For instance, a HT (health) test works similar to a Fort save in D&D - roll to resist a poison, say. If you've got an HT of 11 you need to roll less than 11 to make it. Same with skills and such. There are modifiers, of course.
One problem I'll point out in GURPS is the ability to get severely 'lost in the weeds': if you get too precious about tallying up the points of every NPC and monster and such I think you'll end up wasting some time. I've had to overcome my basic nature on this front and focus on the most important items in order to run GURPS in a freeflow manner. You certainly *could* be anal-retentive with the system and run a very simulationist game...but I think it's a bit more fun (especially for zombies) if you keep it looser.
We played a session last night and I'll say that it's a real friggin' bear to make headshots on zombies. It's fine when there are one or two (take a round to brace and aim and make a called shot) but when there's a group advancing on you the panic sets in really quickly and your shots start going pretty wild. Hey, just like the movies! ;)
Our characters were staff on the maiden voyage of a new cruise ship when the zombieapocalypse went down. We didn't even know what was happening because it coincided with a terrorist attack/insurance scam. We realized the deal as we were getting the last people off of the boat as zombies filled the deck and an unpiloted Coast Guard cutter (crew zombified and milling on the deck) plowed into the side of the ship finishing her (and a lot of the lifeboats) off. We spent a week afloat and just made landfall to find out that the epidemic seems to be worldwide. Now we're about to have to deal with a biker gang that has taken up residence in what we thought would be our new temporary safe house.
M
What is the basic breakdown of the Chaosium system?
You can get Call Of Cthulhu quickstart rules from the chaosium site for free
Aren't the Call of Cthulhu rules just modified d20? It truly does sound like an awesome system if it has the whole madness dynamic!
There was a Call of Cthulhu d20 variant put out by WoTC waaaay back in the 3.0 days. If you ever find it, you will pay a bundle for it, as it only ever had the one printing. Most of the folks here are talking about the original, from Chaosium, which the d20 version was actually based on.
My first thought was also to recommend that. But instead, I'm going to kick all the trends here and say that if you can get hold of the d20 Modern rules (the SRD might still be up somewhere), go with that.
Here's why:
1. You said you only wanted speed boosts and strength increases. That system calls its classes "Fast Heroes," "Strong Heroes," and the like. Since the PCs in the game are above-average and have these only-slightly-better-than-human powers built-in, no modification to the rules will be necessary. Your players can just choose classes right from the book.
2. It has zombies in the monster section.
3. It has plenty of monsters that could be called "mutants."
4. You will have minor access to magic and psionics right there, if you ever want that flavor. If not, they are easy to ignore.
5. It was 3.5 compatible, so you will already be familiar with most of the rules.
Now, some here will say "too crunchy," but you said you wanted the strength and speed, so that's my recommendation. We've done some d20 Modern zombie stuff that was scary as hell. I also incorporated a little of the rules into our d20 Cthulhu-based Silent Hill game (though not the classes). Again, scary is as the GM does.
The D20 Modern rules are indeed pretty good. You do, as with any straightforward D20 system, have the problem of power curve: The PCs get pretty powerful as they climb levels. If you slow the progression it might work for you.
I liked the D20 CoC ruleset, actually. It's not old-school Cthulhu but I successfully ran a more pulpy modern game with it and it worked out well. You don't have to worry about the characters getting too powerful as they progress.
One problem with both systems is that there are no called shot rules and damage is pretty abstract. You could get around that with some houserules, however.
M
Never even heard of Dead Reign...
Link
https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/230-Dead-Reign-RPG.html
Now you have.
The chaosium system is a percentile based skill system. Your character has percentages in a variety of skills and you try to roll under your percentage to accomplish tasks, sometimes with modifiers.
The Basic Roleplaying System is probably the core book I'd advise for it should you go that route. Call of Cthulhu uses this system, and gives you the basics of it, but includes tons of setting specific stuff related to the Cthulhu Mythos that you likely wouldn't use that much for the type of game you want to run. The basic BRP book is a bit like GURPS in that it gives you the core rules along with a ton of optional rules that you can add to the system to customize it to your liking (and I believe this includes the sanity system that Cthulhu is so famous for). I'm not sure if it has any rules for hit locations or head shots and the like, though they wouldn't be that hard to come up with.
The 2E warhammer system (which is basically the same engine that powers Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy) is also percentile based and does include hit locations as well as a pretty nice wound mechanic. I like how it does combat better than BRP. However, I like how BRP does skills better than warhammer, but since they are both percentile based it wouldn't be all that hard to mash some of the best parts of both systems together. However, the slickest percentile based system I think I've seen recently is Eclipse Phase. The problem with that game is that it is a pretty setting specific hard sci-fi game. The good thing about it is that it is probably one of the most interesting rpgs I've ever seen.
The main problem with this game is that it uses the palladium system, which I've always found to be a confusing mess of a game.
Never even heard of Dead Reign...
Link
https://palladium-store.com/1001/product/230-Dead-Reign-RPG.html
Now you have.
Trail of Cthulhu uses a single d6. Your skills consist of pools of points that you can spend over the course of the session to enhance your roll. This gives players a fair amount of influence over the narrative without it being overpowered.
The main thing about this system is that it is really focused on investigation, and as a result the combat system is fairly abstract, and may not have the level of detail you are looking for. It does feature a good sanity system however.
By the way, the zombie apocalypse adventure path that is being put out for Savage Worlds is called War of the Dead. I haven't checked it out, but it might be of interest to you for inspiration.
Trail of Cthulhu uses a single d6. Your skills consist of pools of points that you can spend over the course of the session to enhance your roll. This gives players a fair amount of influence over the narrative without it being overpowered.
The main thing about this system is that it is really focused on investigation, and as a result the combat system is fairly abstract, and may not have the level of detail you are looking for. It does feature a good sanity system however.
Apparently, a post-apocalyptic version of Gumshoe (the Trail of Cthulhu system) is being developed, Razed
Trailing all the way back to the OP, I've run some d6 and it works well, but the late game can get a bit clunky. The newer d6 games are free now with the demise of WEG so there is little to lose by giving it a go.
The other systems you mention I don't have direct xp on so I will side step any comments there.
GURPS has been made to do everything and so it can do anything. However, the system is so aggregated that it can approach the "amount of work VS fun" balance point (to me). Obviously that is my take on it, and not an objectively researched conclusion (which most GURPies require :)
For a zombie themed survival game...go for Dread. That is unless you are offended by Jenga towers or require dice and numbers in order to have fun with zombies. The key to having fun with Dread is for the GM to divorce themselves from a pass-fail resolution system and go with "this, that or other" narrative resolution (Example: Jenny if you can pull a Jenga log successfully you can get out of the truck and pick up the keys you dropped 40ft away that you can see through the window glinting in the streetlight. If you decide to pull a log and the Jenga tower falls...the zombies are likely going to surround you on your own outside the vehicle. If you decide not to pull a log you are going to miss your chance to drive away from this zombie infested hell-hole as the zombies reach your location and you are forced to hide in the vehicle).
Atomic Highway.And if you can wait a few months get the Twisted Armageddon expansion(with rules on alternate apocalypses with: Aliens, cybernetics, zombies, killer robots, retro-future and alien tech)
For a zombie survival game, I really feel like you need a system that deals well with called shots and hit locations. You always need to be making those head shots or taking out their legs to slow them down. I haven't seen a lot of systems that really seem to do that well... It would probably also be good to have a system that deals with fear and sanity because really good zombie horror is always more to do with the psychology of the characters than just shooting zombies.^ this is EXACTLY what I am talking about...
I can recommend Cyberpunk 2020 on both accounts, the hit locations and insanity, though the later is primarily linked to having cyberware installed, which is maybe to hightech for post-Apocalypse, but i think i´d would work just as well without.
Solid system, d10 based, if you downgrade the armor pretty deadly and gritty too.
Thank you guys so much, I am a long time gamer, and I am learning A LOT here! I ABSOLUTELY appreciate it!!! Now...
So, here's a simplified and revised NEEDS list for the system I will eventually choose:
1. Definitive (even if I have to figure it out myself) insanity/fear/madness aesthetic of some sort... It just makes sense!
2. A well defined called shot system (even if it's not perfect, anything which'll do the job!)
3. Crunchiness enough to allow for complex actions/resolutions and defined combat!
4. Streamlined enough play to allow for limitless decision making and EXCESSIVE FREEDOM to ROLEPLAY!!!
5. Ease of learning for both me and my players (I am less worried about them than me, yikes!)...
6. If it's not completely ridiculous I'd LOVE to see a workable fatigue system!
7. True life and death danger for the characters, during any combat encounters, even at higher levels,
And an additional IF POSSIBLE:
8. A hard copy (preferably hardcover) of the rulebook/source books... (I don't have a computer close by in my Roleplaying space...
A few quick notes on my particular post-apocalyptic zombie apocalypse game:
A. Guns shouldn't end up being most peoples' weapons of choice, as ammunition is exceedingly hard to come by!
B. The studied source material for this campaign is equal parts Cormac McCarthy's The Road and AMC's The Walking Dead. My players did their homework and have read the books, and watched the show I asked them to.
C. There should be an overwhelming and constant sense of dread, increasing as the gravity of everything sinks in!
D. The SEARCH for food and drinkable water should be almost as important as being quiet and not being eaten!
E. Interactions with other groups of survivors will invariably by strained if not completely negative (cannibals)!
F. For the most part, the entirety of the campaign is set in OUR world, maybe 3 years from now... So I can't justify going too techy at all... The minor mutations come with downsides, slowly destroying the persons body and mind. We will be completely normal humans... Our party has some character ideas already, for example, A borderline crazy fire and brimstone preacher, a prostitute turned merchant, an ex-military officer, an industrial engineer... Two others are still considering...
Hope those help, along with everything else. Seriously though, you guys have been a GREAT help so far, in the next week or so I must make a decision though...
Before I can choose either of them, or add them to my consideration list, (despite the fact they both look absolutely AMAZING!!!) I am going to need to hear specifics on the combat systems of Razed and Dread. Can anyone at all be of help with the particulars of either?
I didn't know GURPS was a Steve Jackson Games product! That ALONE makes me want to check it out, heh! Any links to 3E/4E books I'd need or could use? Are there decent prices on print editions?
Alright, so as of this moment I have a new list of game systems I am considering (Please continue to add anything I am obviously missing and give any advice you can!):
Roleplaying System (Is there anyone who has played a zombie game with this, who'd like to share?)
(Sounding very cool, if it's not too crunchy... Please give me an idea, is it all crunch?)
Roleplaying System (Still seems like a great system, anyone know if it's possible to get a Print copy?)
Products I'd consider with more information:
I've run, and LOVED d20 Modern, but a bunch of my RPG books (mostly randos, d20 Modern, and WoD books) were stolen a few years back, during a move... I don't really know about running this particular campaign in the d20 Modern system... Wasn't there a rumor that Paizo was going to get the rights to do a d20 Modern thing? Too bad I haven't seen that around!
Thanks again, everyone... Sorry to be a nuisance!
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A few quick notes on my particular post-apocalyptic zombie apocalypse game:
A. Guns shouldn't end up being most peoples' weapons of choice, as ammunition is exceedingly hard to come by!
D. The SEARCH for food and drinkable water should be almost as important as being quiet and not being eaten!
The ancient Fantasy Games Unlimited "Aftermath" game does a very good job of this. It is very detailed and has extensive rules for guns, ammo and scrounging among the ruins.
Given the needs list I would have to pull back my recommendation of Dread. It is still a F***ing of a game to play/run, but it may fit better in a different expectation list. If you get a chance to play a game of it, do it though :-)
GURPS is designed to give you all the crunch you could ever ever ever ever ever need. The fluff and skinning is up to you, or the many example-splat books out there for the system. That being said you can also strip it back and exclude portions as you see fit. I'd liken it to Linux as an OS. If you know what you are doing it is a rewarding experience, but you need to be able to roll up your sleeves a bit.
Never played Tri-Stat so I can only stare agape like a zombie at that one with flies buzzing in and out of my mouth.
d6 is sort of the idiot step-child to GURPS, and I mean that in the best possible connotation. It's a simple math system, and dice pools are easy to wing on the fly. You'll still have some work ahead of you to get it to do what you want, but it pays out well (and for me strikes a better balance between squeeze vs juice). However, d6 is a digital medium these days unless you can track down the physical books so that may drop it off your list of contendors.
Honestly given the list of requirements I'd have to steer you toward Chaosium's Basic Roleplaying or Call of Cthulhu (mostly the same system). They've held up over time, and you can get them in print or pdf easily. I don't personally own Basic Roleplaying, but I have had Call of Cthulhu sitting on my shelves (in one format or another) for years and had a blast with it...plus...zombies :-)
You may want to take a serious look at Nemesis.
It seems to cover everything you want, using the fantastic ORE (One Roll Engine).
It's also free, so I linked the pdf.
I believe that GURPS meets all of the terms outlined on your list (with a couple of slight caveats):
1. Definitive (even if I have to figure it out myself) insanity/fear/madness aesthetic of some sort... It just makes sense!
* There is a fright/shock table (based on will and modifiers) that can result in effects from nothing, a couple of seconds of inaction, or permanent mental/physical disabilities linked to your PTSD. The disadvantages provided by the system can mimic any sort of disability you need (and, beyond madness, it can also model a lost eye, hand, leg, chronic pain, etc.)
2. A well defined called shot system (even if it's not perfect, anything which'll do the job!)
* GURPS has this built in (not GURPS Lite, however) with penalties and different effects established (damage multipliers for vital areas, knockdown, etc.) Also, a massive shot (RPG) to the arm isn't going to kill you because you can only take a certain amount of damage to a certain body part...I had a player shoot a guy in the foot in SW Saga to intimidate him and he killed him instead (fine with me because I didn't want him questioned).
3. Crunchiness enough to allow for complex actions/resolutions and defined combat!
* GURPS has a multi-layered ruleset for combat. The Lite game has just the basics and the full product has several sections that add progressively more detail.
4. Streamlined enough play to allow for limitless decision making and EXCESSIVE FREEDOM to ROLEPLAY!!!
* This takes some work. You *can* get bogged down in the GURPS rules if you're not careful. I believe we've streamlined our games, however, and our current game is playing with less attention to the rules than a typical Pathfinder session...lots of roleplaying!
5. Ease of learning for both me and my players (I am less worried about them than me, yikes!)...
* Again, this is one of the perceived drawbacks of GURPS. The rules aren't hard but there are a lot of options that can make a newcomer squeamish. I don't think the perception is warranted. The system is no more difficult to grasp than many systems out there...and far simpler than some.
6. If it's not completely ridiculous I'd LOVE to see a workable fatigue system!
* GURPS has fatigue built in! Works great.
7. True life and death danger for the characters, during any combat encounters, even at higher levels,
* You get your wish here. A shotgun blast can kill a normal person in GURPS same as real-life. As long as you don't start adding super-powered advantages to the characters then you have pretty much normal, fragile humans no matter how many points they're built with.
And an additional IF POSSIBLE:
8. A hard copy (preferably hardcover) of the rulebook/source books... (I don't have a computer close by in my Roleplaying space...
* GURPS is available in PDF or hardcopy. There are two volumes, the player's guide and the GM's guide (called Characters and Campaigns, respectively), required for play (unless you use GURPS Lite, in which case that's all you need). Most of the supplements you might find useful (High Tech, with modern weaponry, for instance) are hardcover as well.
There might be easier and cheaper ways to go but I will say I think GURPS is one of the most flexible...and after your Zombieapocalypse game comes to a close you can use the same rules to play whatever the heck you want.
M
Thanks for putting up that link. I wasn't familiar with that system, and started checking it out. It looks pretty awesome.
You may want to take a serious look at Nemesis.
It seems to cover everything you want, using the fantastic ORE (One Roll Engine).
It's also free, so I linked the pdf.
You can download the basics of the Chaosium system for free in the form of the GORE rpg. However, I don't believe that GORE includes the Cthulhu Sanity rules, but it does include pretty much everything else you would want, including a good hit location system.
Thanks for putting up that link. I wasn't familiar with that system, and started checking it out. It looks pretty awesome.
Glad you like it. The ORE system is, IMO, one of the best there is. Reign (the more generic version called Reign Enchiridion) is my fantasy game of choice for running political campaigns.
Also, here is a link for a nice NEMESIS character sheet.
Thanks for putting up that link. I wasn't familiar with that system, and started checking it out. It looks pretty awesome.
Glad you like it. The ORE system is, IMO, one of the best there is. Reign (the more generic version called Reign Enchiridion) is my fantasy game of choice for running political campaigns.
Also, here is a link for a nice NEMESIS character sheet.
Reign is amazing. One of the most imaginative fantasy settings you'll ever find, and the company rules can easily be ported to just about any other game out there.
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Alternity has a modern horror campaign setting, "Dark Matter". I like the Alternity system and know people who love it, but it didn't receive the support it deserved from WotC. The original Alternity setting was "Star*Drive" - a futuristic setting. However, when WotC got the Star Wars license, Alternity was phased out, leaving the market segment open for Star Wars. "Dark Matter" was released just prior to the Alternity rules being dropped completely.
I've never played Alternity but have some of the books (Player's, GM, Gamma World, S*D, Tangents) and have always thought it would be a good system. We may try it for Gamma World someday. It doesn't have hit locations/called shots or fatigue, really, so it may not be what the OP's looking for...though these things could be house-ruled. I did, in general, like the damage system however.
M
I've only played the jenga version of Dread, but it's really fun. Here's a basic rundown of how you play.
Character creation is very freeform, I usually use a simple method of asking a player some leading questions, than the character is loosely defined by those answers. They don't have stats.
Once characteers are made, you set up a jenga tower, each player makes one "pull". You start narrating the scenario, every time a player wats to do something that has a chance for a dangerous failure, they make a pull from the tower. If the tower is still standing, they succeed, if it falls, they die. Or they can refuse to make a pull, in which case I get to narrate something bad happening, which makes life harder for them. Lastly, a player can knock over the tower on purpose, then they get to narrate their sacrifice and how it helps the group.
If something is particularly dangerous, they have to pull two blocks. Games often result in TPKs, but that's kind of the point of a horror game. It works best for oneshot games. The GM should always stand/sit away from the table with the jenga tower so they don't accidentally knock it over.
I once died 5 minutes into a game because my dog leaned against the table to scratch himself. I got to help narrate gruesome deaths for other people.
In addition to GURPS and Call of Cthulu, you should look into D20 Modern.
For that matter, you can still run Pathfinder, and just tell the players "no spells or spell-like abilities". I've considered doing a similar thing.
Bard = rock musician, evangelist
rogue = street thug, detective
barbarian = football player, boxer
monk = MMA fighter
fighter = soldier, SWAT officer
ranger = survivalist, hunter
paladin = beat cop, firefighter
alchemist = science teacher, scientist
You could even allow NPC classes like Expert and Aristocrat (politician, heiress, etc.), because most of the PC classes will be losing abilities and therefore be roughly the same power level. Taking away spells will hit some classes harder than others, but taking away most of the armor in the book will also impact the melee classes harder than the former spellcasters.
Some of the skills will obviously need to be changed. For instance, instead of Spellcraft, you can make it "Security Systems". "Knowledge: Planes" could become "Knowledge: Pharmaceuticals". "Fly" would keep the name, but reference helecopters and airplanes.
If you really want to run a "Walking Dead" or "28 Days Later" setting, where a zombie bite is a BAD thing, use ghouls instead of zombies. If you are going "Resident Evil", throw in some Abberations.
I don't know if you're still looking or not, but for some reason I totally forgot about Nemisis. It's a modern horror game that uses the One Role Engine. The mechanics of this game look really interesting and I think would be a great fit for the type of game you want to run.
http://www.arcdream.com/dennis/NEMESIS.pdf
I don't know if you're still looking or not, but for some reason I totally forgot about Nemisis. It's a modern horror game that uses the One Role Engine. The mechanics of this game look really interesting and I think would be a great fit for the type of game you want to run.
http://www.arcdream.com/dennis/NEMESIS.pdf
Maybe because you learned about this game a couple of posts back in this very same thread...
yes, perhaps that's where I heard about it... I was trying to remember. Still a pretty cool system though.
Maybe because you learned about this game a couple of posts back in this very same thread...I don't know if you're still looking or not, but for some reason I totally forgot about Nemisis. It's a modern horror game that uses the One Role Engine. The mechanics of this game look really interesting and I think would be a great fit for the type of game you want to run.
http://www.arcdream.com/dennis/NEMESIS.pdf
Yes, it is a really cool system
And don't worry, my memory is failing me often enough. ;-)
yes, perhaps that's where I heard about it... I was trying to remember. Still a pretty cool system though.
Maybe because you learned about this game a couple of posts back in this very same thread...I don't know if you're still looking or not, but for some reason I totally forgot about Nemisis. It's a modern horror game that uses the One Role Engine. The mechanics of this game look really interesting and I think would be a great fit for the type of game you want to run.
http://www.arcdream.com/dennis/NEMESIS.pdf