Variant Channels

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Ok I am looking at creating a Necro, and I have chosen Cleric as the casting class and plan on playing a Dhamphyr. I was looking at Variant Channel abilities and saw this one:

Undeath: Heal—The healing effect is enhanced (see Variant Channeling above) for undead creatures and those with negative energy affinity. Harm—This works like a standard channel (not halved).

my question is, does the Heal effect on this alternate channel Heal or Harm undead?. From my reading it appears that this alternate will heal undead and negative energy creatures instead of the usual harm that would occur, and then the Harm effect channeling negative energy will heal them as well?. Giving them 2 ways to heal? Am I reading this wrong?

[Bart Vervaet]

I think it means that if you use channel to heal undead, it has an enhanced effect, and if you use it to harm living creatures the effect is unchanged.

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Bart Vervaet wrote:

I think it means that if you use channel to heal undead, it has an enhanced effect, and if you use it to harm living creatures the effect is unchanged.

but typically harm will heal undead and heal will hurt undead. Im wondering if this means that you can now heal either way.

[Vehement1]

Tharg The Pirate King wrote:

Ok I am looking at creating a Necro, and I have chosen Cleric as the casting class and plan on playing a Dhamphyr. I was looking at Variant Channel abilities and saw this one:

Undeath: Heal—The healing effect is enhanced (see Variant Channeling above) for undead creatures and those with negative energy affinity. Harm—This works like a standard channel (not halved).

my question is, does the Heal effect on this alternate channel Heal or Harm undead?. From my reading it appears that this alternate will heal undead and negative energy creatures instead of the usual harm that would occur, and then the Harm effect channeling negative energy will heal them as well?. Giving them 2 ways to heal? Am I reading this wrong?

with channel negative energy you harm living creatures at full value and heal undead at 150%

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Vehement1 wrote:

Tharg The Pirate King wrote:

Ok I am looking at creating a Necro, and I have chosen Cleric as the casting class and plan on playing a Dhamphyr. I was looking at Variant Channel abilities and saw this one:

Undeath: Heal—The healing effect is enhanced (see Variant Channeling above) for undead creatures and those with negative energy affinity. Harm—This works like a standard channel (not halved).

my question is, does the Heal effect on this alternate channel Heal or Harm undead?. From my reading it appears that this alternate will heal undead and negative energy creatures instead of the usual harm that would occur, and then the Harm effect channeling negative energy will heal them as well?. Giving them 2 ways to heal? Am I reading this wrong?

with channel negative energy you harm living creatures at full value and heal undead at 150%

But the problem is the part for undead is located within the line for Heal effect which in the rules http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo---cler ic-archetypes/variant-channeling state that when you use Positive Energy Channel that you would reduce the Heal by 1/2 but gain an additional effect this of coruse means the part about undead is secondary effect (undead and negative energy creatures healed normal +50%) and of course it already states that Harm (negative energy channel) is unaffected and does not loose 1/2 dmg like it does for other variants because there is no secondary effects. So while typically only the harm (negative energy drain) would heal undead. This variant appears to allow the user to use the heal effect as well for undead. I mean that is what I am asking? I know that typically that would not occur when you channel postivive but this ability seems to allow it.

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Ok my last post all ran together and I cant edit it so I cleaned it up a bit.

Variant-Channeling

The Channeling power is broken into 2 parts. Heal (positive) and Harm (negative). All clerics cast in this manner even evil ones. The new variants state that when you choose a variant the powers of the Heal are 1/2 of the normal power because you get a bonus feature. Same for the Harm it is also cut in half because of its special effect that almost all the variants have.

Now the Undeath variant lists the 2 parts of the Channel. The Heal and the Harm. it lists that for the Heal that undead are healed at normal heaing +150% and so the downside is that all other people get healed for +50%. And then it states that Harm stays at full 100% because it has no extra feature.

Now I thought I was reading this wrong and so I have went over it and came to this conclusion: Typically Undead are harmed by Heal (positive energy) but this variant appears to change that for this channel only. When using channel your positive energy will heal undead and then since they also heal with negative the harm will also heal (but wouldnt need to use it since its not enhanced). Now if you cast cure light the positive will still hurt them with that spell, this is for the Channel Variant only. At least I cant find a reason to say it doesnt work this way.

If this was not suppose to be the case It should have been listed as:

Undeath: Heal—This works like a standard channel (not halved).Harm—The healing effect is enhanced (see Variant Channeling above) for undead creatures and those with negative energy affinity.

but since it is not. Can we get a official ruling on this? I mean by RAW I think It works as I stated with heal working and harm working to heal undead, just that now there is no reason to use harm for undead since heal will be better for that.(+50%)

[Remco Sommeling]

I think the use of heal and harm has been used rather unfortunately in the description, I think it is supposed to deal half damage when channeling negative energy but heal undead for more. Positive channeling is unchanged.

I got the impression you felt like a cleric of any alignment was able to both harm and heal with this variant, I do not think it was the intention, but the description is muddy enough to make me doubt.

What I got from the variant, assuming good aligned cleric, was you channel for half the effect but creatures benefiting would get an additional boon.

Now coming to undead this confuses me, would :

1) undead just get half damage and nothing else
2) get half damage and suffer the effect mentioned under harm
3) not be affected at all

In reverse if you are evil or neutral and choose to channel negative energy affecting undead, would :

1) undead be healed and suffer the drawbacks
2) be healed and get the benefits mentioned under heal
3) not be affected at all

It might not quite make sense, the whole thing is a bit confusing to me.

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Remco Sommeling wrote:

I think the use of heal and harm has been used rather unfortunately in the description, I think it is supposed to deal half damage when channeling negative energy but heal undead for more. Positive channeling is unchanged.

I got the impression you felt like a cleric of any alignment was able to both harm and heal with this variant, I do not think it was the intention, but the description is muddy enough to make me doubt.

What I got from the variant, assuming good aligned cleric, was you channel for half the effect but creatures benefiting would get an additional boon.

Now coming to undead this confuses me, would :

1) undead just get half damage and nothing else
2) get half damage and suffer the effect mentioned under harm
3) not be affected at all

In reverse if you are evil or neutral and choose to channel negative energy affecting undead, would :

1) undead be healed and suffer the drawbacks
2) be healed and get the benefits mentioned under heal
3) not be affected at all

It might not quite make sense, the whole thing is a bit confusing to me.

see thus my problem. I am creating a NE Cleric undead lord and I just noticed the Variant Channels. then when I read the Undeath one I got confused. I would like someone to clear this up. And I want to go by RAW. I know how people think it should read, but what would be official.

Will My evil cleric level 7 Channel Heal giving +3d6 hit points to my group and my undead minions get ((+3d6)+50%), or will he give +3d6 to group and deal to my minions (+3d6damage -50%) or do I need to choose to use Harm negative energy to heal (+3d6dmg)+50%)to my undead. This is what I would like clarified.

[Bart Vervaet]

As a NE cleric you will channel negative energy.

This meansyou can use is to harm living creatures OR to heal undead creatures. You can't use negative energy to heal your living party members

So with the undeath variant channel you can

heal undead creatures at 150% efficiency

OR

harm living creatures at the normal rate (being 7th lvl this means 4d6)

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Bart Vervaet wrote:

As a NE cleric you will channel negative energy.

This meansyou can use is to harm living creatures OR to heal undead creatures. You can't use negative energy to heal your living party members

So with the undeath variant channel you can

heal undead creatures at 150% efficiency

OR

harm living creatures at the normal rate (being 7th lvl this means 4d6)

Ok I dont know why I kept reading Channel wrong. now that I have I see that I will be casting Negative Energy to Heal undead and I get to do so enchanced. or harm living creatures. I somehow kept missing the wording on it.