So I'll be headed to Dragon Con to do what I can to further my own ends as a freelance writer while paying my keep by running some fun games for people who aren't planning on participating in society play.
BEyond that though I think I'm gonna participate in soemthign I haven't done since 3.5. That Is I plan on participating in the Cheese Grinder.
So here are the creation rules.
So I need to figure out what character or series of charcters to get brutally murdered in this year.
I think I'm gonna go with a Synthesist that loads up on the skill evolutions to make sure my bases are covered good and well. I'll become the Guyver bringing death to monsters where I go. Might include some paladin.
That's one idea.
I might attempt some kind of gunslinger or other kind of build.
Yeah good luck with that. Let me give you some advice. Your build should include energy resistance to everything, an insane AC, and constant improved invisibility
Nice thing is that's precisely why I picked the synthesist. Also having good skills works. Plus there are PvP rooms.
Last time I think I would have done well playing that funky mindflayer created race with psychic goo for a brain. I actually didnt die. I got fiated out because midnflayer masters didnt like me going into an anti magic zone. There's lots of those.
Can someone explain to me what a cheese grinder is?
I followed the link but i couldn't really understand what it is.
Can someone explain to me what a cheese grinder is?
I followed the link but i couldn't really understand what it is.
Imagine thetomb of horrors. Now, put a two minute limit on each room with the most strict detail oriented DM ever. Life expectancy is measured in minutes. The object isto survive as long as possible.
Yeah good luck with that. Let me give you some advice. Your build should include energy resistance to everything, an insane AC, and constant improved invisibilityNice thing is that's precisely why I picked the synthesist. Also having good skills works. Plus there are PvP rooms.
Last time I think I would have done well playing that funky mindflayer created race with psychic goo for a brain. I actually didnt die. I got fiated out because midnflayer masters didnt like me going into an anti magic zone. There's lots of those.
Emphasis mine - if those are requirements, look at the Empyrean Knight paladin archetype. If you take human as race and the alternative favored class bonus with energy resistance, you should be doing well here.
AC is also easy to stack up with a paladin, so it seems like a good choice to me :-)Monks would probably be a decent alternative - they are damn hard to kill if built right!
If you are looking for super defenses, then I agree with you on the selection of synthesist. Though this is a 40 point buy, that just means that you can go synthesist 11, monk 1/synth 10, or if you are really afraid of dying, monk 1/paladin 2/ synth 8.
Synthesist 11 while the most concentrated leaves you with a still low fort save(likely not low in normal games but likely low in the cheese grinder.
If you take a lvl of monk, you lose 1 eidolon hd, 1 evo point, and 1 lvl of spellcasting. You would gain a +2 to all your saves, your wisdom to ac and some other stuff and thus your touch ac is improved.Mostly a good trade. If you wanted to use lots of unarmed strikes I would advise you to go monk 3/ synth 8 because you could then pick up monastic legacy(requires still mind but lets you add 1/2 your monk lvls to your monk lvls to determine your unarmed strike damage)
If you go monk 1/pally2/synth 8 it is for the obvious reasons, saves are generally up by 2+ charisma, fort goes up another 3. The trade is that you get 4 less evo points and other losses. You still have access to large but you do not have access to spell resistance and some other evolutions that pop up at 9th lvl.
I have never participated in one of these before so I am not certain which way you would want to go. In terms of forms, you could save yourself a ton of evo points by going biped and dropping claws on your legs. Then you would have 4 nat attacks already with just 1 evo point spent.
Side note- considering it is 40 point buy game, a druid may be a better class to go than a synthesist.
Seeing the stats I already picked up the monk option is a really good one.
My only issue that I put forth in the rules forum is the interaction of items like a belt of giant strength and how it interacts with the synthesists fused form. Would it affect the ability scores of the eidolon stats that it grants me or not?
I don't believe you benefit from things like a Belt of Giant's Strength while fused. Or rather, you gain the benefit, but it's irrelevant. The belt would increase YOUR physical stats, but it would be meaningless since you're using the Eidolons physical stats.
However, temporary bonuses like Bull's Strength might be valid through Share Spells.
Wildshape focused druid.
OR
Dip Brightness seeker 2 levels for blindsense or wings, ect
The rest zen Archer will make a good "Stay away from trouble" character,
OR
Dimentional Agility focused, Savant bloodline sorc. Skill points and GTFO on standby. Maybe dip rogue
OR
Bard- pick one,
OR
Dwarven Cleric in Stoneplate, hard to kill, no speed loss. Take travel domain for more speed.
OR
Master Summoner- minions to die for you.
http://www.dndsheets.net/view.php?id=22769
So here's the initial set up without feats or magic items. Got my spells skills and traits selected. Working on fused form next.
I definitely wont be going for any huge sized eidolons. Size is a detriment in some rooms. One in particular basically guaranteed the 12 headed hydra full attacks on everything it can see. It also had a fair share of templates.
Then there was the room with the Half dragon ghost succubus. That was jsut plain disgusting.
In any case I'm not sure what direction to take my feats. some offense will jsut ahve to be necessary but for obvious reasons I'll want to consider defense adn mobility as well. Considering the ridiculousness of archery I'm wondering if that shouldnt be the option I take here.
I am really wary about firearms however. We're talking some really evil GM's here, the type who would infact sunder spell pouches and steal spellbooks without battign an eyelash. Can you iamgine the glee they'll take when I come in with a character that comes preloaded with explosives?
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Two things you should be aware of:
1) The Cheese Grinder is a highly competitive environment. Most of the players who come up with killer ideas are happy to share them - after they've used them to dominate the table.
2) The Cheese Grinder CMs (Cheese Masters) read these boards regularly and are happy to plan countermeasures against what they see players posting.
Two things you should be aware of:
1) The Cheese Grinder is a highly competitive environment. Most of the players who come up with killer ideas are happy to share them - after they've used them to dominate the table.
2) The Cheese Grinder CMs (Cheese Masters) read these boards regularly and are happy to plan countermeasures against what they see players posting.
The first point doesn't worry me partly because at least for the biggest parts of it it's mostly a cooperative game and yes you can infact be killed because the group doesn't work together. Even if you screw someoen ina subtle kind of way these thigns can come back to bite you. Remeber you may have killed the character but the player still yet lives. While it is competitive the group that competes with eachother gets utterly detroyed by the CM's. This is a fact. Besides I don't have to tell people everything.
The second point also partially mitigates the first. People aren't stealing ideas that get posted on the internet if they know the CM's are watching. :)
All in all I can't go the 12-16 hour marathons I've seen a couple go to. I ahve obligations myself. :P
First of all, have fun at cheesegrinder. The guys who run it are awesome and I have really enjoyed playing with them in the past.
If your goal is to get to the final table you need to have a character with few flaws. Don't try to specialize in one thing, you need to have all your basis covered because you have no clue who will be cycled into the party as people die off. Secondly, if you can do it without magic do it that way. A pair of actual wings to fly is much better than the fly spell because in the situation where you will want to fly you will be in an anti-magic field. They love anti-magic fields (as such the synthesis will suck in quite a few rooms). Also, brush up on pop culture and D&D lore, a lot of the rooms are puzzles. We once had to sing the entire Devil went down to Georgia song or be destroyed by a Baylor with a fiddle. Lastly, getting to the final table is not always about being the best. A lot of slots are left open for other things (their favorite player, best death, best roleplayer, etc.) If, however you do get to the final table you need to have a character that can deal the damage. At least at our final table, we ended up PvPing for the win. My paladin was very strong survivalist but was weak in the damage department when it came to killing neutral and good players.
Good Luck!
well, if antimagic fields pop up alot, the druid option may be better for you since, if you get yourself a huge form, you will be too big to be completely engulfed by field and thus you will still keep your buffs.
The fields in question tend to take up entire planes.
Though I've heard conflicting things about eidolons and AMF and even more conflicting things regarding synthesists I may have to bother the CG forums about it since they're the ones who will ahve to rule on it.
Eidolons dont go pop in an antimagic area according to the cheesegrinder. I think it's safe to assume this applies to the synthesist as well.
Needless to say this pleases me.
Still I enver said I was going wiht jsut oen character adn a wildshaping druid can get ballsout ridiculous if treated right. I'll probably end up making one of those too.
well, if antimagic field doesn't end up removing your armor, then the synthesist will be an easy choice.
I mean, a semi viable hit chance plus highly superior saving throws plus high ac plus evasion plus resistances... makes this a easy choice. This assumes you don't poof in a dead magic room. Though if you did lose your power armor in a dead magic room, what would you try to do at that point?
Be in the same boat as everyone else.
First of Greetings from The Cheese Grinder (puts on his CM hat)
There are two quotes here I love:
1. "Don't try to specialize in one thing." Very good advice one trick ponies die quickly when their trick is of no importance.
2. "Be in the same boat as everyone else." I laughed hard on that one, but very true.
I will cover a few points for the possible player’s benefits.
Do not think of it as CMs vs players. Ok it is sort of but the CMs are happy to see you survive and we want you to do well. We are just not holding any punches. We are going to go for the throat because we know the players are as well.
Our primary goal is to offer a fun and exciting adventure. The kinds you talk about for years to come. Since we want a lot of people to experience said fun we have to expedite the player rotation.
Our Secondary goal is to ensure quality DMs. I had been in too many games were the DMs sucks monkey spheres. I do not anybody be a CM I actually hold training courses for them too.
My advice to you is to have fun. Make characters you think will do well but have a good time with them, don't stress over "oh man I would have rocked if only I had fought a blank."
TCG runs 48 hours non-stop, yep we are there at 3am. You can sleep after the con (like we do). Come play at night if your day is full.
TCG is a round robin dungeon of death. The party always has 6 players, when one dies another takes its place. The rooms are combat, puzzle, traps, riddles, weird and combinations thereof.
The creatures you will see will usually never be seen in home campaign. We use the rules to their maximum efficiency or just wackiness. Where else are you going to get the chance to fight a half dragon succubus ghost by “punching her in the baby maker” (this is a real quote from a player).
Do we use what we read in the forums against you? Nope, well not really. We just make sure to know the little rules, the tricky corners to help entertain you. For instance I am going to have to read more into firearms and ammunition and them exploding.
We try to keep our ears out and listen to our players. We do this for you. One example, on TCG forums a majority said they were not fond of the Rumble Room. It is not eliminated but will be now rare to come up, we have replaced it with persistent dragon rooms for this year. Plus our players said they wanted more humanoids, I have been working hard on new rooms for that. It take about four times longer to develop a room of a full class level then it does to make a half dragon succubus ghost room.
Feel free to post on the forums here, on www.thecheesegrinder.com or wherever you want. If I see/find out about it I will be happy to answer your questions.
The creatures you will see will usually never be seen in home campaign. We use the rules to their maximum efficiency or just wackiness. Where else are you going to get the chance to fight a half dragon succubus ghost by “punching her in the baby maker” (this is a real quote from a player).
Yay WTF award! That was my table at Origins. That succubus had one mean DC on their dominate. We got hosed once the maxed out ranger failed their save. Just so everyone knows, that quote got her a spot at the final table. Getting to the final table is less about your character stats being awesome and more about you as a player being awesome.
Yay WTF award! That was my table at Origins. That succubus had one mean DC on their dominate. We got hosed once the maxed out ranger failed their save. Just so everyone knows, that quote got her a spot at the final table. Getting to the final table is less about your character stats being awesome and more about you as a player being awesome.
The creatures you will see will usually never be seen in home campaign. We use the rules to their maximum efficiency or just wackiness. Where else are you going to get the chance to fight a half dragon succubus ghost by “punching her in the baby maker” (this is a real quote from a player).
Oh I remember her with a great deal of hatred. This was back in 3.5 and believe me the cheapness of that wench is unparalleled.
One day I will claim her incoporeal head.
Oh yes, vengeance will be mine.
Minor update.
So I have the synthesist done. I'm not entirely happy with his offense being I had to sacrifice size, and extra limbs. I'm wondering if I can flurry of blows and then use natural attacks or alternatively just use unarmed strikes followed by claw attacks. We'll see.
Nice thing is the versatility behind them is just insane. Evolution surge line replaces a ton of what would otherwise be dead spells. I'm contemplating removing some items I don't think I'll need in favor of a wand of the lesser version.
In any case I'm gonna make 3-4 more characters. One will certainly be an archer, being pathfinder I might as well go for the gold medal of cheesy fighting styles. Another will probably be a druid. And the last I'm thinking Kensai possibly.
One idea I was throwing around jsut for entertainment purposes was a Luchador monk of the Tetori archetype. If I can find a decent set of ghost touching gloves I can wrestle my most hated foe in a grudge match to end all grudge matches.
Anyway a master of many styles loses flurry of blows in exchange for the ability to use 2 stances at once.
Just as importantly, Master of Many Styles lets you get access to Styles while ignoring the prerequisites.
Anyway a master of many styles loses flurry of blows in exchange for the ability to use 2 stances at once.Just as importantly, Master of Many Styles lets you get access to Styles while ignoring the prerequisites.
Took the words right out my mouth. It's the primary reason why I took it. I wans't evne sure flurry of blows would even work so I opted for making the point moot by hitting very hard with my claws. I also decided against Arcane Strike in favor of eldritch claws. The DR penetration will serve me better in the end and costs nothing action wise. Personally I really wanted to get more to-hit than to damage.
Another word of advice. Do not base your character around one item that you can not loose. One of the rooms they had when I played was a room that you had to give up your most important object in order to leave. A bladebound magus would be hosed by this room. So have backups! (extra weapons, 3 holy symbols/spell books)
Another word of advice. Do not base your character around one item that you can not loose. One of the rooms they had when I played was a room that you had to give up your most important object in order to leave. A bladebound magus would be hosed by this room. So have backups! (extra weapons, 3 holy symbols/spell books)
Oh noes not my quicken metamagic rod! :P
Seriously I think I'll be alright in that regard.
Though it does somewhat screw wizards.
Roleplaying however becomes pretty impotant here I think. Importance can be defined as much more than monetary or utilitarian value.
I've learned alot about synthesists working on this guy. Really, vanilla summoners have the advantage when it comes ot sheer action economy and combat, but as far as pure survival? Synthesists are crazy good, even when you lose your powerarmor it's nothing for you to just spam your normal summon monster ability and keep moving.
I don't thinka bladebound magus would eb as hosed as you think. Considering they're practically inseparable.
Working on the ZenArcher paladin now.
oh I just wanted to pop in here and suggest another possible build for you.
paladin 2/cavalier 9 for your offensive build. That way you can as a swift action give your entire party coordinated charge. Then your whole team can charge as an immediate action when another player in the group charges. IE, 2 full attacks for pouncers. I might also suggest beast rider cavalier to get yourself a pouncing pet.
Mounts and pets get hosed in cheesegrinder. They are a serious liability. A lot of the rooms are small and some of the rooms are just not animal friendly at all. Good luck getting your mount over a lake of lava, in an anti-magic field, and all you have is a rope. So if you do go with a mounted option...be small with a medium mount...and get a mount that flies.
I don't thinka bladebound magus would eb as hosed as you think. Considering they're practically inseparable.
The teleport function would not work as no objects can leave or enter the rooms by transportation or planar travel abilities (true of all cheesegrinder rooms). So your options for that room really are leave it behind and try to function without it or fail.
The teleport function would not work as no objects can leave or enter the rooms by transportation or planar travel abilities (true of all cheesegrinder rooms). So your options for that room really are leave it behind and try to function without it or fail.
I don't thinka bladebound magus would eb as hosed as you think. Considering they're practically inseparable.
Yea I just read that before you posted. It actually kind of shows a flaw in the blackbalde's design. If you lose it you can't get it back until 9th level and even then it's limited and it doesn't cross planes. Feels like a nasty flaw for such a prominent ability.
I was looking at this for a con that actually comes to this state and was thinking a Vivisectionist/Master Chymist. But it may not work terribly well.
...I don't thinka bladebound magus would eb as hosed as you think...
Scene in the grinder.
Player sits down, "Hi DM, may as get use to me sitting here I am going to be here awhile."
DM: "Great to hear what is your character name."
Player: "Benny BladeBound Magus of Cheese!!!"
DM: "Kewl, what is your one round of prep?"
Player: I brandish my blackblade as I cackle 'Send me in there I am not afraid.'"
DM: <ding> "Next!!! Wow, that is almost as fast as the guy who got DQ for activating his ring of blink."
(No intelegent weapons allowed)
...I don't thinka bladebound magus would eb as hosed as you think...Scene in the grinder.
Player sits down, "Hi DM, may as get use to me sitting here I am going to be here awhile."
DM: "Great to hear what is your character name."
Player: "Benny BladeBound Magus of Cheese!!!"
DM: "Kewl, what is your one round of prep?"
Player: I brandish my blackblade as I cackle 'Send me in there I am not afraid.'"
DM: <ding> "Next!!! Wow, that is almost as fast as the guy who got DQ for activating his ring of blink."(No intelegent weapons allowed)
So he's even more screwed then we initially thought. Funny that. I don't suppose if the black blade was mentally handicapped it'd be fine?
No?
Oh well. Wasn't planning on it anyway.
In this case the feats are a touch tougher to pick. I haven't even setlled on a race yet but I'm stuck between human and half elf. I'm nto entirely sure going paladin is entirely worth it. I get a couple of immunities adn an alright bonus to saves but it's not as arbitrarily high as Friend of Justice is. So what else can we do?
If paladin is worth it what should the res of my feats look like? Before you say "rapid shot, many shot" keep in mind I can't use either of those with flurry of bloes which would be the optimal choice of full attack sequences here.
Actually inquisitor comes to mind as a valid alternative to paladin that meshes much better with my choices.
So, decided to go wiht inquisitor. Dwarven inquisitor zen archer with steel soul. Overall better off it looks like and the spellcasting is better. Also the possibility of an animal companion doesn't hurt.
Unfortunately due to circumstances out of my control I can't make it this year.
So I decided to open up friedn of justice's other half for perusal.
Sorry to hear that.
Le Bummer!