Great job on the PDF. I've been thinking of doing something like this for my Kingmaker game now that my players have their own Kingdom. A newspaper starting up in their kingdom breaking the major stories would be a nifty way to keep up the rumours.
Any chance we might get a blank .jpg of that Broadsheet background I could use to write a paper for my campaign? :)
Let me share a secret with you: Google Images. Just go there and type in "parchment torn burn" and see what you get. Mine is the first one :) Its where I got the wax seal too (which actually comes from a college alumni association). Google images is a GREAT goldmine of stuff. (by the way, "torn parchment" or "old parchment" gets you even more cool stuff, but that search I posted gets you the one I used right up front, which is what you requested)
By the way, the newspaper was laid out by me in 30 minutes, not by Tim or the Legendary Games design guys. They would laugh at my feeble design and layout skills, so I had to put in this disclaimer. :)
Clark
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I really like the themes of travel and destiny that are at work in this adventure path.
Every game session, I think about themes and set myself some goals for what I want to accomplish from a story standpoint.
For our first proper game session, I have several goals: (1) caravans--I want to introduce the idea of caravans right away as I think it is sort of shoehorned into part 2 without much introduction and it is too important to the AP to do that way, (2) destiny--I want to get the PCs feeling that they are a part of important events, and (3) the NPCs--I want to build a connection to them early.
To that end, I have used those themes to help me design the set up encounters as follows. I'll post more game notes later, but here is a summary:
1. Intro
First, I'll make sure everyone has characters and has selected their free third trait.
We'll then review the 4 NPCs and the characters' connections to them.
I'll make sure they have the Sandpoint Chronicle. (see handout, above)
2. Caravan Set Up
The PCs are accompanying Sandru and Ameiko in a caravan. The NPCs have taken their covered wagon and one supply wagon south down the Lost Coast Road to meet up with a supply caravan from Magnimar. Ameiko negotiated better terms if she met them half way, transferred the goods to her and Sandru's wagons, and brought them back to Sandpoint, bearing their own risk of goblin attack. Secretly Ameiko is hoping for some action.
We pick up play with the PCs having just helped transfer the goods to Sandru's caravan and the caravan turning to head north up the Lost Coast Road back to Sandpoint.
I'll quickly go over caravans and have the PCs tell me which roles they serve. I won't do full mechanics, but just enough to get them introduced to it so it doesnt seems so jammed in later. The only thing to calculate is the Security check since that comes into play below.
3. Scribbleface encounter
Just as the PCs have almost made it all the way by the length of the Brinestump, and actually just as they pass the New Fish Trail, they are "ambushed" by Scribbleface. Scribbleface has just seen, the prior night, the raid of the skeletons on his village. He fires a skyrocket at the front of the caravan to stop them, then he runs out asking for help. Here is some of my text from my notes:
Scribbleface emerges: Scribbleface (goblin Wizard 3(abjurer)) then comes running out from the surrounding brush, waiving his hands, and carrying a strange lantern—a bejeweled silver and jade lantern built to look like a coiled dragon worth a substantial amount of money on craftsmanship alone. This is, in fact, the lantern stolen by the goblins in We Be Goblins that was recaptured by the skeletons when they assaulted the Licktoads’ compound. Scribbleface, though outcast, watched over his old village and saw the massacre. He followed the skeletons as they traveled back to their caves. Along the way, one of the mindless skeletons dropped the lantern Scribbleface now carries. He hopes that showing it to the “longshanks” may persuade them that he speaks the truth.
He speaks in Varisian or Common, but if anyone can speak Goblin they can converse with him freely. Scribbleface begins 60 feet away from the caravan.
"A strange looking goblin emerges from brush. He is dressed in what appears to be robes of some sort and he seems to have some sort of writing covering his face. He has a staff in one hand and a strange bejeweled silver and jade lantern in the other. He is waiving both madly and shouting to you in Varisian: 'Wait, stopping! Please to help me, please! I am your help needing badly!'"
PCs can make Appraise checks about the lantern (DC 10, it is obviously valuable and not something one would expect a goblin to have), Knowledge checks about goblins (DC 10, it is very unusual for goblins to speak Varisian), Knowledge checks about the local ambushes (DC 10, there are NO stories of goblins using decoys like this, certainly none speaking Varisian), Spellcraft checks (DC 10, his robes do appear to bear valid, if somewhat shamanistic, mystical symbols, in fact you recognize a common warding rune used locally in the mage armor spell worked into the front of his robe), or Sense Motive checks (DC 15, he appears to be sincere, as much as you can tell).
Roll initiative, including for Ameiko.
Ameiko Intercedes: Ameiko recognizes the lantern, or thinks she does. If the PCs attempt to take hostile action (and don’t beat her Initiative by more than 10) she shouts: “Stay your hands, friends! Stay your hands! Do not harm him!” If a PC beats Ameiko’s initiative roll by more than 10, he or she can act before she shouts. Of course, that PC is free to attempt any of the above skill checks prior to acting.
If Scribbleface is slain, his body can be looted. [edited]
He bears a lantern of the jade palace, a bejeweled silver and jade lantern built to look like a coiled dragon. The lantern is lit with a magical light, as per the spell, that shines like a hooded lantern. The light can be willed on or off at the user's speaking of the command word or, if held, by the holder’s mental command. The command word is worked in Tien on the bottom of the lantern: it is the name of one of the first emperor's many wives. It is rumored that many such lanterns exist in a far off palace in Minkai, each bearing the name of one of the emperor's wives.
If not slain, Scribbleface proceeds in Varisian, or better in Common. A goblin still, he grows nervous if asked to stand near horses, preferring to speak away from the beasts.
“Thank you. I thank you. May we step away from the horses? Too many of my kind have they trampled. It is not normal for my kind to speak with humans, I know. But I need your help. And I am not like my kind. I am outcast even from them. As you see, I speak your tongue. And I write, which is a great sin to goblins. I am of the Licktoad tribe. Though they cast me out and they carve words onto my face, I am still a goblin and they are my people. I live apart from them, but I watch over them. I need your help. WE need your help, though they would never ask longshanks as they call you.
Last night, a great evil came upon my village. An army of the dead—large, like you, human dead not goblin dead—marched on my village and many were killed. Many goblins. Even the fireworks could not stop them. The teeter chair destroyed. Squeely Nord himself, slaughtered. The dead looked like men in armor, but they were bones. No flesh. They did not speak, just killed. Then all at once they left. But when they did, they took something with them. I saw several of them carrying things. Treasure, I believe it was. But not any treasure I had ever seen. I followed them for awhile, but I am no thief. One dropped this lantern. This is not goblin make, as you can see. I watched you, watched you come and go. I saw the lizard on your robe, like the lizard on this lantern and I hoped you could help me. I think perhaps your robe means you are a wizard like me.
Please, humans, I know it is strange, but will you help my village?”
[yes, this requires two mods to We Be Goblins: (1) it is NOT Scribbleface in Vorka's pot, he survives, and (2) the lantern is now magical, something that would have eluded the goblins anyway]
Ameiko is intrigued. She wants to see the lantern. Scribbleface lets her.
Ameiko then hears from the PCs on what to do. Sandru, too, is intrigued. Unless a different course of action is suggested, Ameiko asks to keep the lantern, she wishes to study it (and show it to Koya and Shalelu) and consider Scribbleface's request. She will return to this fishing road tomorrow in the morning. Scribbleface says he will hide nearby, as he is used to doing, they can signal that they wish to talk to him by using a desnan candle, which he gives to them.
3a. Bar fight
Time permitting, you can have the PCs go to the Hagfish per the newspaper and get in a bardic perform challenge with teh Seven Swords and maybe even a bar fight. Those cocky bastards! By the way, the Seven Swords are just 4 first level NPCs--but each bears two swords but one--their leader, who bears just one sword. The swords are largely ceremonial, as only one is a ranger who can dual wield.
[b]4. Koya does a Harrow reading
I then will have all the PCs gather with the NPCs to discuss the lantern. Koya does a Harrow reading for all the characters. For she has seen great omens in the cards:
“This morning when I read the cards I saw a combination not seen in ages. I have forseen the shadows of this day. I knew that it would involve you, Ameiko, and all of you. I have known it, felt it. Events have been set in motion that cannot be undone. It remains to be seen only what part we shall play.”
She lays down the Big Sky.
“The Big Sky. A card of good, of strength, of momentous change, as when all the slaves of a nation are freed.”
She lays down the Juggler.
“The Juggler. A card of good, of travel and journey, of destiny and the gods and those who play with the fates. But against these promising heralds is set this—the controlling card that shapes the first two and a dark omen indeed.”
She lays down the Cyclone.
“The Cyclone. A card of great evil and power. It is an unstoppable and destructive force, unleashed through the plots of evil minds.
These movements of the future I can read clearly, like the course of a great river. To that great river each of us is but a small drop. Yet a small drop may be the tears of the gods, and so I may be able see some short distance into the future. Come! Let Koya read your fortune and learn your place in these great events!”
Have the PCs draw cards along with the NPCs. Use a deck of regular cards. Tell them you’ve got a “conversion chart” to the actual harrow card to make it seem random and as if the card they draw is actually not predetermined (which of course it is). [I'm not posting what I've come up with for my players in case they read this, but I will later, though I can tell you what I have for Ameiko]
For Ameiko: "Ah, The Empty Throne! My child, I wish that I could tell you it is a good card of individual triumph, of success, of ascension. But alas it is reversed! Both power and loss it shows, death and nobility are yours. It represents those who are gone, ghosts of the past that have taught important lessons. Heed their wisdom! I see the traces of this card in this very lantern that you bring before me. I cannot see further than this, for some great mist—perhaps the mist of a great sickness or death—clouds my knowledge. But seek this destiny you must, my dear."
Then the PCs in turn draw cards, followed by Sandru and Shalelu and finally Koya.
5. Into the Brinestump
The next morning the PCs return to the fish trail, meet Scribbleface and set off to the Warden's hut.
So why post all of this?
I love adventure design. BUT what I really love is the skill of taking a published adventure and making it work for your campaign. I hope the things I post help you see what I am doing and why and see what works for you and what doesn't. I certainly don't claim to be the best GM, but I sure work hard at it. Preparation is the key for me. Some GMs can just wing it and are amazing (my friend Bill, for instance is one such GM). I'm not. Yes, I can do it, but I am better when I've prepared extensively. I'm a bit compulsive about that. But there are reasons for it--frankly, I really enjoy the thinking and the preparation. And watching all the things I've thought through play out is one of my greatest joys of gaming. Plus, I think the players have more fun the more work I put in. And that is a big joy for me.
So why am I doing all these mods--a caravan intro, a scribbleface encounter, a harrow reading?
Because I happen to think the adventure (Brinewall Legacy) has a few weaknesses.
First, it tries to be too sandboxy with the open ended swamp. There is likely a good reason for that--they want to give lots of groups lots of hooks for getting into the swamp. But I think they failed to find the best hook. Goblin hunt is what is presented, but that is (in my view) the weakest hook of all of them.
Second, think of the story. It is easy to get bogged down in APs and to expand them unnecessarily. The Jzadirune dungeon from Shackled City is a good example. Its too big and takes too much time. APs take a long time to run and you have to find the story in them that you want to tell and cut things or summarize things, all the while personalizing and expanding.
The story here is NOT goblins. It is the skeletons and the treasure. Goblin hunt is a way too unfocused way to start that.
Thus, I included the lantern and the scribbleface hook--it gets the PCs going on the story.
In the end, you have to ask yourself, what is this part of the adventure for and does it accomplish those goals?
From a pure mechanical standpoint, the Brinestump portion of the adventure serves to get the PCs to level 2 and to get them to encounter the skeletons and get the scroll, which triggers the adventure proper. BUT that is just plot and XP. You also need to think story and theme--travel, destiny. Make sure you hit those, too.
So I wouldnt spend too much time doing other things. Like a good screenplay, make sure your stuff is tight and doesnt waste time. That is the framework for your campaign. Believe me, your players will come up with extra stuff to do that will provide spending of extra time. So that means what YOU do has to be really tight and focused to character, plot and theme. If the encounter you are planning doesnt meet those goals, you have to ask whether you need it or not (other than just to provide some XP pinatas for the PCs).
I dont think the adventure as published launches you very well onto the course of the story. Of course, there is a reason for that. James brilliantly gives you lots of options and a mini-sandbox to play in. Now it is up to YOU to figure out how to get YOUR PCs into the story.
I am hopefully showing you one way. There are lots of others. You could have your PCs go to research old Megus, or go to check on the Warden. Maybe they could even go on the goblin hunt only to intrude upon the aftermath of the skeleton raid and then encounter scribbleface (rather than right away as I do it).
The important thing, though, is that you as the GM perceive that YOU must tailor this start of the campaign to your group. If you treat the swamp as just a location based dungeon, your PCs will wander aimlessly with little direction and you will wonder why you "just cant seem to get them going." Thats because YOU have to do it. Hopefully my notes will give you an example of how (not the only example, of course).
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Very cool, though you know all this prep work might make a nice small PDF too. Some mini encounters, harrow readings, side treks etc.
I mean something that now I think would be cool. Would be after knowing about the AP have some pre written Harrow card meanings. Then a GM could really do a random drawing of the harrow deck and then have a reading for them. Obvious it would have to be tweaked a little depending on the PC but still i think something like that for each AP would be wicked cool. i love the harrowed deck though.
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I mean something that now I think would be cool. Would be after knowing about the AP have some pre written Harrow card meanings. Then a GM could really do a random drawing of the harrow deck and then have a reading for them. Obvious it would have to be tweaked a little depending on the PC but still i think something like that for each AP would be wicked cool. i love the harrowed deck though.
I took a cue from the CC adventure path and dialed up specific harrow readings for specific encounters. So really you could just use these readings for any PCs. Now I can't resist. I'll post my "script" (I'm deleting the PC names from my campaign to protect the guilty.
Have the PCs draw cards along with the NPCs. Use a deck of regular cards. Tell them you’ve got a “conversion chart” to the actual harrow card to make it seem random and as if the card they draw is actually not predetermined (which of course it is).
Ameiko: "The Empty Throne! My child, I wish that I could tell you it is a good card of individual triumph, of success, of ascension. But alas it is reversed! Both power and loss it shows, death and nobility are yours. It represents those who are gone, ghosts of the past that have taught important lessons. Heed their wisdom! I see the traces of this card in this very lantern that sits before me. I cannot see further than this, for some great mist—perhaps the mist of a great sickness or death—clouds my knowledge. But seek this destiny you must, my dear."
PC1: "The Rabbit Prince. A strange card, indeed! A fickle card of chaos and battle. But also a card of nobility and importance. The Rabbit Prince’s broken sword indicates that defeat may come to anyone and that chance always play a role in the outcome. You will face a mighty foe, a prince or person of significance, and the outcome of that battle will depend on you. Heed well this card!" You gain a +1 to all rolls during your encounter with Kikonu. You may play this card once to either turn a successful hit into a confirmed critical or you may turn any successful hit by Kikonu into a miss. The card must be played before damage is rolled and once played the power of the card is expended.
PC2: "The Desert. A very good card, indeed! A card of health and help. Surviving in a place too difficult to survive without help. The sphinx on the card represents a source of salvation from plague. I see the power of life where there should be death, green growth where there should be withering and decay, purity within corruption. You have within you the cleansing fire!" The holder of this card should have a clue to find Spivey and also gains a +2 on all interactions with her. Further, as a purge of evil, the holder of this card gains a +1 to all rolls during the encounter with Nindinzego. It can also be used one time by the holder as either a cure serious wounds, dispel magic, remove curse, remove disease as cast by a 5th level cleric as a standard touch action. When so used, the power of the card is exhausted.
PC3: "The Tyrant! This is an evil card of charms and enchantment. It represents a ruler who harms those he rules. Obligation turned to evil purpose, nobility to ruin. But the card drawn is reversed! You may yet wield power over these things. Seek to restore the balance." You gain a +1 to all rolls during both the encounter with Tsutamu and Rokuro, and you may force either of them to reroll one successful saving throw they make but if you use this power the other bonus ends and the card is spent.
PC4: "The Crows. An evil card of flight and shadow and perversion. It represents murder, theft, and the violent loss of that which is loved. I see you traveling to such a place, standing before bloodstained walls. Yet this card, too, is reversed! A dire omen, but you may have power over such things." You gain a +1 to all rolls against dire corbies and during the encounter with Navakali. You also may spend the power of the card to take one additional standard action during your fight with Navakali. Doing so, however, ends the power of the card.
PC5: "The Mute Hag. An evil card. A card of wisdom, of treacherous secrets and evil intermingling of bloodlines. Beware! I see you battling twisted creatures of strange bloodlines. But you, too, have an inner power that may challenge these beasts. Heed the protections of this omen!" The holder gains a +1 to all rolls in all encounters with ogrekin. The holder may smite evil against an ogrekin one time as a paladin of the same level, at which time the power of the card ends.
Sandru: "The Eclipse. An evil card, my child. It says that you will lose faith and purpose, and you doubt your abilities or prospects. A great cloud or mist lies before you, as with Ameiko. I cannot see beyond it. Your fates are intertwined." [Not sure why, but I wanted to be a downer for Sandru]
Shalelu: "The Keep. Ah, that is a good omen! A card of quiet, unshakeable strength that withstands any hardship. You will be a valuable ally on this journey. Though what journey it shall be remains to be seen."
Koya: Lastly, Koya turns over her card: "The Hidden Truth. A good card! It represents the discovery of the greater truth within. But I, too, draw this card reversed. I forsee that in gaining this truth, I shall lose my life. Alas!"
Man by reading this stuff it makes me want to run this more then any of the other APs but I want to run my players through Rise of the Runelords before this AP and I want to wait for the hardbound before I run that. (we are half way through Second Darkness)
Man by reading this stuff it makes me want to run this more then any of the other APs but I want to run my players through Rise of the Runelords before this AP and I want to wait for the hardbound before I run that. (we are half way through Second Darkness)
No need to wait! I've never completed RoR, and nothing is stopping me. I wouldn't want you to feel that there is some mandatory reason that you have to do RoR first to run this one. I doubt James would want you to feel that way :)
Man by reading this stuff it makes me want to run this more then any of the other APs but I want to run my players through Rise of the Runelords before this AP and I want to wait for the hardbound before I run that. (we are half way through Second Darkness)No need to wait! I've never completed RoR, and nothing is stopping me. I wouldn't want you to feel that there is some mandatory reason that you have to do RoR first to run this one. I doubt James would want you to feel that way :)
Well they really want to play the ones with the Hillbilly Ogres and I want to wait for the hardbound book. And I wont run an AP till I have all 6 books (but by the time Second Darkness is done im sure they will all be out)
And I wont run an AP till I have all 6 books (but by the time Second Darkness is done im sure they will all be out)
That actually makes a TON of sense. One of the problems of starting right out of the box with the first adventure (before even seeing the second) is that you don't know exactly what future events to foreshadow (I am a huge fan of that). So I hear you.
Because I happen to think the adventure (Brinewall Legacy) has a few weaknesses.<snip>
In the end, you have to ask yourself, what is this part of the adventure for and does it accomplish those goals...
I just finished reading the whole thing yesterday, and I have to disagree. IMHO, the module doesnt have any weaknesses and goes out of it's way to make the characters make all the decisions in a semi-sandboxy environment. Not every single part of the adventure needs to tie into the main story. To me that would be overkill. Having certain side treks that do not further the story is a welcome rest between major parts of the plot.
Your mechanical reason for Brinestump is correct, it's a sidetrek BUT it also happens to be the catalyst for the main story. It's here the PCs find clues to parts of Ameiko's past that even she doesnt know about. So as you say the goblins are not the story. Furthermore, "destiny" would have it that the unsuspecting PCs discover Ameiko's past in Brinestump at the same time that they are on the side trek. I think it accomplishes both goals here admirably.
There may be elements that you want to play up more, thats fine too. Thats what "web enhancements" are for. :) This whole thread is one with lots of nifty ideas.
Lastly, this module has no weaknesses at all (imho of course). JJ has definately produced another fantastic AP starter that is excellent from start to finish. It has a well written backstory, great pacing, memorable NPCs (JJ's trademark), and still manages to be pretty sandboxy, especially considering the PCs are not forced to tell Ameiko anything or even return any heirlooms.
The only weakness to the Jade Regent AP is the player's guide. This almost made it a no purchase. It made the forthcoming AP sound like the NPC's (Ameiko and Co.) are the main story, and that the PC's were henchman/hirelings of a sort. It also makes it sound like the PCs idolized them, or were lovestruck, (none of these traits stand out for me) etc.
Im also glad the Romance mechanic is easily skipped without reworking a major part of the adventure. I'd much prefer for events to unfold between them solely based on their roleplaying.
IMHO, the module doesnt have any weaknesses and goes out of it's way to make the characters make all the decisions in a semi-sandboxy environment. Not every single part of the adventure needs to tie into the main story. To me that would be overkill. Having certain side treks that do not further the story is a welcome rest between major parts of the plot.
....
Lastly, this module has no weaknesses at all (imho of course). JJ has definately produced another fantastic AP starter that is excellent from start to finish. It has a well written backstory, great pacing, memorable NPCs (JJ's trademark), and still manages to be pretty sandboxy, especially considering the PCs are not forced to tell Ameiko anything or even return any heirlooms.
I'm not criticizing James at all. Every published adventure has a weakness, if for no other reason than space--an adventure with a particular print footprint simply cannot include everything it needs. I say that having had the pleasure of publishing numerous adventures myself, each of which had a weakness. I am pretty sure James would agree.
This adventure is pretty unique for not having a "set up encounter." I think that alone is a weakness, but your mileage may vary. I don't say that to criticize James at all. I think James is the man. But I would strongly suggest you reconsider your position that "this adventure has no weaknesses." I've never seen one. Every published adventure has to make strategic and editorial and organizational choices (such as moving the set up encounter to its own module--We Be Goblins).
I hear you. And again I am not saying this is the only way to do things. Mine is just my ideas. Take what you want. Or take nothing.
In the end, a published adventure is just that--a published adventure. It gives options. But what it doesn't do (and what it can't do) is tailor itself to your game group. That is what you have to do, and what I have done here in my own way. You are free to not do that if you dont want to, but I would encourage you (and I think James agrees) to create prologues and tweak the published adventure to fit your group.
I think what set you off is my comment that the module has a "weakness" and that is somehow a criticism of James personally. I'm sure he appreciates your vigorous defense. But I dont think that is the thrust of my posts, and I certainly don't intend to criticize James. I've talked to James directly about this adventure and I think he is a genius. And I sure am not trying to say "I know better than James," because I don't. I've said before and I will say again: no one, and I mean no one, does this better than Paizo.
I think Jade Regent is great. Heck, I chose it of all others to run for my home campaign, so I must think it is pretty darn good. :)
We do try to usually put in preliminary set-up encounters in our Adventure Paths. With Jade Regent, I kind of took a cue from Erik Mona's excellent "Whispering Cairn" adventure that basically puts the PCs on the front porch of the first encounter area (in this case, Brinestump Marsh) and lets them go from there. But even when we DO start an AP with a setup encounter, building a prologue that's customized to your party is an excellent way to involve the players from the very start in a way that feels like it's THEIR characters who are supposed to go on the Adventure Path, not some other group.
Hey, look at that... :) That's all I'm trying to do in this thread is share my choices with you guys.
I think what set you off is my comment that the module has a "weakness" and that is somehow a criticism of James personally. I'm sure he appreciates your vigorous defense.
This has nothing to do with being a fan of JJ or anyone else at Paizo. I also know you werent criticizing anyone. It also didn't "set me off" and I kind of take offense to that mixed with the "I'm sure he appreciates your vigorous defense". It kind of insinuates I'm the rabid fanboy type. I was just addressing what you said was a weakness with my point of view.
On a slight tangent, I also disagree that "We Be Goblins" is the set-up encounter of Brinewall moved to it's own module. I see it more as a loosely-connected Prelude with a chance to play a PF humanoid for a fun change of pace.
Meh, It's all just opinions in the long run. YMMV (standard disclaimer).
2nd disclaimer***
I dont have any issue with you Clark, and I am a Necromancer Games junkie (still hoping for a one day realized dream of ToA under the PF ruleset). Don't let any of my posts above mislead you.
On a slight tangent, I also disagree that "We Be Goblins" is the set-up encounter of Brinewall moved to it's own module. I see it more as a loosely-connected Prelude with a chance to play a PF humanoid for a fun change of pace.
Disagree all you want. That is what James told me when I emailed him and asked why no set up encounter and he said it blossomed into We Be Goblins. In fact, if I recall correctly, in his first draft of the adventure he had an encounter with Scribbleface asking the PCs to help his village much like the one I am doing.
I'm not sure what is making you so argue-y about this. :) I'm not suggesting you are a fan boi and I meant it when I said I'm sure he appreciates your defense. I think authors always appreciate support, I know I do.
Your comments are noted. I'm going to move on now I think.
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Session 1
(actually it's session 2, but we called the prologue with We Be Goblins session 0, so there you have it)
Went great!
The caravan set up was fun. Good, simple intro to caravans, traveler duties, basic scores and the Security check.
The encounter with Scribbleface went great. No one harmed him, they heard him out. They made some checks to see if he was on the level. They decided to meet him the next day at about dawn and Ameiko took the lantern.
That night they met as a group, unloaded supplies then a few went to the Hagfish for the party involving the Seven Swords (yes, this is stuff I added). They got in a little "tussle" when one of the PCs hit on one of the female Seven Swords, causing Matsuro to challenge them to a fight. Unfortunately for him, Mischka, the kensai, bested him.
The PCs were summoned by Koya who did their harrow reading. See above post.
The next morning they set out for the swamp, met Scribbleface.
They fought 5 donkey rats (dire rats without disease). Then they fought a giant leech. Then a leech swarm (wicked!). The leech swarm inflicted -5 STR, -5 CON and -6 DEX on the Paladin. Ouch! Finally, Scribbleface blasted the paladin and the swarm with burning hands, which did the trick but caused 9 points of damage to the paladin! Hillarity ensued.
They finally made it to Walthus' shack and were immediately suspicious of the impostor when he hated snakes and, though a snake handler, didn't have any antitoxin or potions to cure poison. He also seemed to be faking answers about Ameiko and the goblins and other events. Of course, the S really hit the F when the paladin decided to whip out said holy symbol and detect evil on him. The impostor reverted to his natural form and did little before being hit by just about everyone, including Yarrik massive confirmed critical (21 points) as a killing blow.
The PCs then rescued Walthus who agreed to help them and let them use his shack. He knows nothing of the undead, but is aware of the goblin village and the old ships. Walthus struck up a strange friendship with Scribbleface right away.
So ended the session (4.5 hours). The PCs each earned about 1200 XP. Over half way to second level. They got a cloak from Walthus but haven't decided yet who will use it. Ameiko remains at the Rusty Dragon researching the lantern they got from Scribbleface. The PCs anticipate rendezvousing with Ameiko and Sandru in their wagons an hour before dusk. It is now approximately noon.
Because I front loaded some extra content that was mostly theme and story and little in the way of XP, I threw in some fun, short encounters to serve as XP pinatas for the PCs. Pacing of an AP is important. You can really get bogged down. That is one of the reasons I think the "sandboxy" start of this AP needed some fine tuning. But you need to stay on track and one way to do that is to keep the XP flowing. I considered story awards, but thought this would be more fun.
Plus I wanted to see what this party could do. With a paladin, a kensai, a battle cleric with a great sword and a ninja (and a summoner with a serpent eidolon), this party won't have much trouble with melee. Their problem will be when they encounter magical problems that need magical solutions or opposing spell casters, since the summoner and kensai aren't really the swiss-army-knife style arcane caster that the wizard is. Then again, if they keep Scribble around, he may fill that gap for them. In fact, I might even invite a 6th player to play Scribble.
Our sessions on average are 4-5 hours long. I don't want to spend more than 4 sessions on each installment, which means this AP will take a year to run (we play every other week, so 2x per month, or two months per installment). That means I have to get them to the end of Part I and to the plot point by the end of next session. That should get them nicely to second level, and well towards 3rd.
I'm going to have to make some hard decisions about "fast forwarding" parts of the adventure to stay on track. Though I love the caravan stuff, I think that will be mostly narrated by me with only maybe one or at most two key set pieces--an encounter and a key NPC dramatic event or something. No more than an hour of game time.
Because I front loaded some extra content that was mostly theme and story and little in the way of XP, I threw in some fun, short encounters to serve as XP pinatas for the PCs. Pacing of an AP is important. You can really get bogged down. That is one of the reasons I think the "sandboxy" start of this AP needed some fine tuning. But you need to stay on track and one way to do that is to keep the XP flowing. I considered story awards, but thought this would be more fun.
Thats why I really like during APs just giving Levels when I think its appropriate for the game
Thats why I really like during APs just giving Levels when I think its appropriate for the game
I agree with you. But sometimes more splatter and less chatter is what the players want, particularly with new PCs. They want to swing their swords. So I gave them a few simple chances to do that and do it well. And they did.
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I mean something that now I think would be cool. Would be after knowing about the AP have some pre written Harrow card meanings. Then a GM could really do a random drawing of the harrow deck and then have a reading for them. Obvious it would have to be tweaked a little depending on the PC but still i think something like that for each AP would be wicked cool. i love the harrowed deck though.cool stuff
yeah thats cool, but I was thinking perhaps a idea for your plug and play for AP's might be. Generic Harrow readings for each card for each AP. Like for Carrion Crown, after having seen and read the whole series come out with a PDF that list all the Harrowed cards and some generic readings that tie to events that WILL happen in the AP. When i say generic I mean leave them vague enough to tie to any PC that draws it, but will actually forshadow upcoming events in the AP. Personally i think a product like that would absolutely rock, or a AP plug and play add on.
For me, the setup encounter is what you use to bring everyone together before you send them all off on the actual adventure. In other words, your players might have no problem using the Player's Guide for a particular AP and coming up with a backstory that individually has them present at the beginning of the campaign. But, what's the encounter that makes it so all these PCs from random parts of the world are actually thrown together so they get to know each other and bond?
Sometimes, it's a roleplaying encounter. Sometimes it's a combat encounter. And sometimes it's the cheesy, cliche "you all meet in a tavern" or "someone posts a help wanted poster on the wall" type of situation. Obviously, some setup encounters are better than others. For Carrion Crown, your setup encounter is mostly a roleplaying encounter with Professor Lorrimor's funeral. In something like Rise of the Runelords, it's the whole Swallowtail Festival. In the adventure I wrote for RPG Superstar (i.e., Realm of the Fellnight Queen), it's the wedding festival that quickly turns violent.
As GM, it's really up to you to find the best way to exercise those kinds of setup encounters by mixing and matching how you inject the PCs into them. And, if a particular AP's lead-off encounter doesn't feel "setup" enough (as Clark found with Jade Regent), you can make up one of your own design and tailor it so it best fits your unique group of players and the PCs they've chosen to play.
My two cents,
--Neil
...I was thinking perhaps a idea for your plug and play for AP's might be Generic Harrow readings for each card for each AP. Like for Carrion Crown, after having seen and read the whole series come out with a PDF that list all the Harrowed cards and some generic readings that tie to events that WILL happen in the AP. When i say generic I mean leave them vague enough to tie to any PC that draws it, but will actually forshadow upcoming events in the AP. Personally i think a product like that would absolutely rock, or a AP plug and play add on.
Strangely enough, we were just discussing Harrow readings recently among the LG crew. Personally, I think they're hit-or-miss. For every enthusiast (like yourself) who would find such a product appealing, I think there's probably two or three who wouldn't.
Also, we're constrained in exactly how much of the existing APs we can reference in a tangential way. It's all still Paizo's IP. And, we don't want to be too overt in referencing specific situations throughout the existing AP adventures where customized Harrow readings would come into play. Personally, I think that's left far better to the individual GMs who choose to run those campaigns, because they know their players (and, particularly, their PCs) far better than we do. Harrow readings need to be much more specific and tailored than generic, in my opinon.
But that's just my two cents (and Clark may feel otherwise),
--Neil
Man by reading this stuff it makes me want to run this more then any of the other APs but I want to run my players through Rise of the Runelords before this AP and I want to wait for the hardbound before I run that. (we are half way through Second Darkness)
I just completed burnt offerings with my group and after hearing about the re-issue, decided to swtich to Jade Regent. Plus I love me some ninjas. Since the party is at level 4, i'm basically starting at the castle and condensing the beginning adventure into one encounter in the cave before moving on to b-wall.
Shuffling from one AP to the next before completing them I think does a huge disservice to the "Adventure Path" in general. (snipped)
While this is going OT fast, I'll say that RotRl and Jade Regent are unique in that: a) RotRl #1 and Jade Regent tie into togther and b)RotRl is being redone and updated and no other AP will probably see the same happen. The updated part is key for me. It's only because of those two circumstances that I personally chose to switch APs. If i was running Kingmaker, it wouldn't make half as much sense to suddenly head off to Varisia.
I also disagree with most of the rest of your premise, OF COURSE paizo is going to promote their new products. That only makes sense. I don't think jumping ship is some endemic problem personally, obviously it's how ones group goes about things. There may be a feeling of "OMG i wish i had time to play all these APs!" but that's a problem i'd rather have than "dang I wish they would put out more than one AP a year" or something. I also personally enjoy running and playing lower levels rather than higher levels, but that is definitely a big YMMV. I like that paizo puts together APs from 1st-~15th but to finish a whole AP would probably take most groups a year or so of weekly playing. From personal experience, keeping a group togther for a whole year (especially being older, kids, jobs, sudden moves blah blah blah) is a rare occurence, so it make sense to me why earlier APs would be more played than the later stages (no comment that the later APs are less thought out, I don't believe that either).
I'm guessing the intro adventure is not ready yet? My game starts Sunday and I could need a hand. ^^
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Thank you Clark! I can't tell you how WELL the beginning to this campaign worked out. I ran "We Be Goblins" for 3 XPed players and 3 newbies Saturday and it was. Just. Phenominal. The newbies got the jist of the rules while getting the jist of the story. And they didn't even have to worry about THEIR characters dying. :D
And for a flashy ending after ALL of the backstory about Scribbleface (and keeping him alive so that they can encounter him later), we end the session with the PC's caravan coming down from Riddleport and seeing a varisian-speaking, scarred-faced goblin coming out of the hills begging them not to kill him.
My players practically had a continuity orgasm. One of the newbie players said that she couldn't stop talking to one of the other players about how she can't WAIT for Sat! We'll continue with the story this coming Sat. Thanks again!
My players practically had a continuity orgasm.
Oh, I know what that feels like. :D
I fear I bypassed We Be Goblins! completely, as I wanted to get the proper player characters into the game immediately. I also took out Scribbleface and had a generic goblin ambush happen, because I know quite well that Mission: Exterminate Goblins! would have turned immediately into Mission: Diplomance Poor Widdle Goblins! if I'd have given a "face" for the opponents, especially one who begged for help. Hell, as it happened, one character got into an argument with Shalelu about a captive Goblin ( who Shalelu of course was in favor of exterminating after interrogation... and did proceed to do so ). ^^
I really wish Vorka hadn't killed them all when we ran We Be Goblins now...
Hopefully real life can get out of the way and you guys can play again cause I want to hear about it
Back at it next Tuesday the 18th.
Clark
Great to hear
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My players practically had a continuity orgasm.Oh, I know what that feels like. :D
I fear I bypassed We Be Goblins! completely, as I wanted to get the proper player characters into the game immediately. I also took out Scribbleface and had a generic goblin ambush happen, because I know quite well that Mission: Exterminate Goblins! would have turned immediately into Mission: Diplomance Poor Widdle Goblins! if I'd have given a "face" for the opponents, especially one who begged for help. Hell, as it happened, one character got into an argument with Shalelu about a captive Goblin ( who Shalelu of course was in favor of exterminating after interrogation... and did proceed to do so ). ^^
My players also had the "Hey, that's Scribbleface's hut! Cool!" reaction and were happy to find Squealy Nord's tracks heading out into the swamp. They were also saddened to find out that their goblin characters were killed. It was rather fun for all to see the connection between the module and the AP.
They did Mission: Knock Unconscious as Many Goblins as Possible ... including Gutwad. They then took him back to Sandpoint where he's about to be put on trial for invading the town (I'm running this as a followup to the first half of Burnt Offering). Boy did I have a time trying to get them to interrogate at least one other goblin as Gutwad was turning out to be an impossible nut to crack for information. And they completely ignored the map on the fan, "huh a hand drawn map ... wonder if it'll affect the value when we sell it."
They're also convinced that there's a necromancer running about. Something about that's the "only way to create skeletons." Boy are they in for a surprise, that or they'll spend the next few sessions trying to hunt down the necromancer. To prevent this, I'm working on some sort of speech that Tsutamu will give. Kind of a whispering monologue as he fights. (It's got to be as he fights because my players take The Gamers approach...
My players basically lied to Scribbleface justifying their lies with, "Oh well. They're goblins!". They killed all of the goblins that they ran into and DEFINITELY killed Gutwad. THEN...the PC's talked Scribbleface into becoming the new Licktoad chief. He was all about it until he realized what being chief of a goblin "tribe" of less than 10 goblins would be like (the goblin version of Conan sitting on his lonely throne ruling a tribe that barely exists). By then though, it was too late. Chief Scribbleface was born.
Oh man, super fun session tonight.
I used one of my all time favorite DM tricks--the cliffhanger ending.
I stopped the session right as I plopped the minis down on the map for the final boss fight with Tsutamu. I had Tsutamu sitting on the chest as the PCs came into the final cave room. Just as they see him, 5 skeletons rise up in front of them and 7 more rise up behind them.
They are all like "ah $h87!"
Then I say, "allright, pack it up, we are done for the night." And I mark everyone's locations on the battlemat.
I love that trick. It ends with tension. It makes them all freak out to play again. They all fear their PCs will get wiped out. It creates just the right amount of excitement. Then, next time, we pick up right away with "roll initiative!"
I skipped all the other cave encounters and got them right to Tsutamu. I didnt want to waste time.
There were other reasons I did that.
First, a key player was missing and they would do better if they had all their players there and not have one guy playing his own character and someone elses.
Second, it was a long session and guys were getting tired. Had we done the whole fight it would have been too long.
Third, they leveled up during the session and updated their characters during our normal 8:30 break that we took. But I wanted to give them a chance to really study their new abilities (not like there are a lot at second level) and have a chance to make sure they leveld up properly.
Fourth, they have a non-combat trick they can try based on the prior Harrow reading that I did and I want them to be fresh and perhaps think of trying it. And the player that has that Harrow reading was the missing player, so I didnt want him to miss out on a potential awesome roleplaying moment.
Plus I just love the cliffhanger :)
Clark
Alright, so to begin, they picked up a 12 noon at Walthus' shack, having just rescued him from the faceless stalker. They decided to rest since the paladin was ability damaged from a leach swarm I threw at them (he he he). They spent the night and rested up.
The next day, the set out for the goblin encampment with Scribbleface and Walthus both coming with them.
Once there, it seemed deserted. They saw a pile of goblin dead in Squealy Nord's pit (the players who had been there before as goblins loved this part and they didnt use any inappropriate prior knowledge, the one player who didnt play in the We Be Goblins session had no idea). Then 6 goblins attacked them. One was on a walkway firing a desnan candle, the other 5 attacked the pcs near Squealy Nord's pit. The PCs killed 2 goblins while Scribbleface was screaming "no kill goblins, no kill goblins!" Finally the pcs all stood down and an uneasy truce was established by Scribbleface (despite a horrid roll of a 1 on a diplomacy check by our resident Diplomat, the Summoner). The party then eventually got audience with Gutwad and his three goblin heroes (Rita, Mogmurch and the infected goblin from We Be Goblins, again the players who played in that session love it).
The pcs convinced Gutwad that they would kill the skeletons and bring back any gold for the goblins, plus they would also get the goblins a new "god" (a baby pig like Squealy Nord), if the goblins gave them any other items like the lantern and lead them to where they got the treasure. The goblins countered that they would give them a map to where they found things (the fan) rather than lead them there and they would give the pcs the other "funny" treasure (shuriken, hair pin, the chest itself), if the pcs killed skeletons, brought back gold and found them a new god. The pcs agreed. I told them they could level up at their next rest. Like good non-meta-gamers they agreed they wouldnt rest just to level and that their pcs would have wanted to press on, so they did.
They set off for the first shipwreck and found its burned out husk (once again, what their goblin pcs did during we be goblins). They found the Tian writing of Kaijitsu Star but dont know what it means. They cut it out and took it. Then they rested and leveled. Happy PCs :)
They set out and with the help of the map found the Kaijitsu Blossom and encountered 5 skeletons (I like to up the voltage, plus this group can fight). They similarly took the plank with the Tien writing Kaijitsu Blossom though again they cant read it. Oh, and I gave the skeletons wakizashis and claw attacks. Nasty. But the cleric channeled energy. The kensai character really was hamstrung by the DR 5/bludgeoning. Luckily they had leveled so the fight was fun.
Then they made their way to the cave. I cut out the other encounters and just did the cave of shame with 7 skeletons and the cave with Tsutamu with 5 more skeletons. They walked throught he first cave and didnt disturb the 7 skeletons (though they only found 3) in any way. They walked into Tsutamu's room, saw him on the chest, up rose the 5 in his room and up rose the other 7 behind them--trapping teh pcs between the two rooms and the two groups of skeletons. We rolled initiative and stopped for the night.
He he! Should be an awesome fight. What they dont know is that I plan to send the skeletons at them in small waves, a la the lame tactics in bad kung fu movies (why they dont send all their minions at once, I dont know, but that's how its always done in the movies, one group of minions at a time). That should increase survivability. Plus, once its down to Tsutamu, my guess is the player who runs the ninja will recall the Harrow reading and will try to use it against Tsutamu. We'll see...
Really fun.
Next session is next Thursday.
Clark
I had intended to finish tonight with this encounter and get through it and get to the letter and the transition to the next part of the adventure with Ameiko deciding to set out with them on the caravan trek and send them home with homework of working on the caravan, but we got a late start (a player was stranded and someone needed to go get him and give him a ride) so I didnt get there. That is another reason I decided to end before the final fight. I didnt want to rush it, its a cinematic moment. I prefer to play those up.
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I really need to offer you a big thanks Mr Peterson, your imagination and ideas have really assisted and inspired me in my own game.
I ran them through the We Are Goblins and kept Scribbleface as suggested followed up by the roadside encounter with him. However, when the PCs got to the goblins, Scribbleface stayed outside as the group investigated. When they got half-way in, Scibbleface let off a series of fireworks to freak out the goblins and make them attack. I figured Scribbleface was still a goblin, a demented little beastie and his plan was to lure the PCs there to slaughter those drove him out. If he was real lucky, they would all kill each other. It did not end well for the goblins or him as the PCs came straight out for him and beheaded him with a crit :(
As the group is small (3) and not powerful (elven ninja, elven ranger and a gnome bard) plus two are playing their first ever Pathfinder game, I had to change the Tsutamo fight slightly. The PCs role-played and as he stood, they did a diplomacy and the ninja showed a fan she had with the Kaijitsu seal on it convincing him that they would finally deliver the treasure to the rightful owners. His spirit left content but they still had to fight the lesser powerful animated skeleton.
Thank you again, I envy your players and hope they appreciate what you have added.
Looks like a fun game, but man, playing once a month you realize it will take years to get to the end right? Ugh. I doubt you'll ever see it at this rate. Crack the whip on those players and have them commit to at least twice a month!
I would love to see your take on the end parts of the AP. Plenty of groups start the APs but I think very few actually finish them. I would really love to see what you have to say about the latter parts of the AP especially considering your RPG credentials and visibility. I hope your group makes it but I bet it won't. That in itself might say something.
I also love the way you describe your sessions in game terms rather than that cloying "novel like" prose so many people use in the "Campaign Journal" section. Keep it up!
Oh and Paizo admins: please don't move this thread to the "Campaign Journal" section (admittedly where it probably belongs). I'd rather have it here since it is more of a campaign "analysis". Thanks.
We try to play 2-3 times per month, but some recent schedule issues caused us to miss a few weeks. I agree, 1/month is just not enough.
I agree about finishing APs. I've started several and never finished a full one yet, but that is often more about the personal dynamics of the game group rather than losing steam in the adventure--someone moves, someone gets a job conflict, etc. For me, since college its been hard to keep a stable consistent game group for a year or more. That's just one of the realities of tabletop gaming for me. If you have a stable, consistent game group then I think you are really lucky.
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Your post, though, leads to an important decision you need to make with APs--streamlining. I like to add some stuff to personalize the AP, such as the intro with Scribbleface, and to play to the wants and needs of my specific players which a published adventure can't really do.
BUT that said, as often as I find myself adding and tailoring APs, I also find myself having to cut stuff and streamline.
For instance, I cut out most of the stuff from the skeleton cave (the spider, the amoeba, etc) and got right to the skeletons.
So how do you cut? It should be story based primarily and XP based secondarily.
That means you need to have a good idea of where you want the PCs to be level-wise during the various parts of teh adventure. If they meet those goals, then you can cut non-story based encounters. If they havent, you can throw a few extra short ones in to help them level up.
For example, the PCs had hit level 2 after negotiating with the goblins at the encampment. That means the level goal for the Brinestump swamp had been met. So I could just "get on" with the story. So I got them quickly through the two shipwrecks (for story), gave them a fun fight with skeletons to foreshadow what was coming, and then got them to the cave. I cut out the other cave encounters because they werent needed for XP (or could be done better as part of a larger encounter). So I got right to the skeleton final encounter.
In doing so, I *increased* the number of skeletons and thus the XP value of the final encounter. Consolidating encounters saves time, which is important. You dont have an infinite amount of game time. Several small encounters can take longer and be less fun than one larger one. Drawing the map, doing the book keeping, handling the post encounter heals and treasure searches and all that stuff just takes time. And my game night is about a 4 to 5 hour block at the most. So I have to spend that time wisely.
So making the skeleton encounter larger (and doing it in waves and permitting some dramatic stuff in between and healing) will give the same XP value, but make it more dramatic, more story focused (you get NO story value from a spider and an amoeba), and more fun, yet at the same time it will take less time to run in total.
For similar reasons, I think I am likely going to have to cut a lot of caravan travel time, but I havent made up my mind on that. I'm going to have to see how it goes. But unfortunately I've identified that part of the campaign as something I might have to trim just to get through the AP in a reasonable time. That said, I will likely narrate the caravan stuff, but do a few key set piece encounters.
I strongly believe as the GM, with the length of these APs and with the real world time constraints of play, that you have to take control of the AP like a director would of a movie. It can really benefit your game.
Just make sure to always think in terms of fun and story.
Clark
For similar reasons, I think I am likely going to have to cut a lot of caravan travel time, but I havent made up my mind on that. I'm going to have to see how it goes. But unfortunately I've identified that part of the campaign as something I might have to trim just to get through the AP in a reasonable time. That said, I will likely narrate the caravan stuff, but do a few key set piece encounters.
This totally connected with me.
We also haven't been able to finish an AP due to real life challenges with everyone having the same night available and people moving, bruised egos, etc.
Initially, I was planning on doing (and have already done) a lot of work to "spruce up" the caravan component. I really wanted to capture the "epic journey" feel that I think this AP is going for, but after considering what you just posted, I'm starting to rethink that.
I've got lots of detail as the party travels from Sandpoint to Brinewall, but I'm realizing if I keep that level of detail throughout the AP (especially throughout the 3000 mile journey across the Crown of the World!) that things will just drag out, and we'll likely never finish it at all. :(
By the way, I emailed my players and asked them: "Presuming you live through this next encounter and make it later to 3rd level, let's say you could pick any one magic item costing no more than 4500gp, what would you pick?"
I'm awaiting their answers.
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This is both educational *and* entertaining. Thank you for sharing your planning.
A question about the Harrow reading: did you tell the players what the card's benefit was? I'm planning to borrow this idea when we start playing next week, and I'm really torn. It seems like they would need to info, but I don't want to give spoilers. How did you handle it?
This is both educational *and* entertaining. Thank you for sharing your planning.
A question about the Harrow reading: did you tell the players what the card's benefit was? I'm planning to borrow this idea when we start playing next week, and I'm really torn. It seems like they would need to info, but I don't want to give spoilers. How did you handle it?
No, I haven't told them. But I have some smart players. I recapped the Harrow reading before the last session and I intend to do it again before we start the first "boss" fight next session. That is one of the reasons I stopped before the fight as a cliffhanger--the PC whose Harrow reading applies to the upcoming fight wasnt there and I didnt want him to miss out on that. Plus it will help the PCs against very long odds :)
I am normally patient. I'll let them try to figure it out. Its always more fun when the players solve the problems without your help. Then, if they dont, I might mention it again. Then if they arent getting it, I might have them make a perception or INT check to notice the Harrow card is getting warm or glowing or something. They all had theirs put on chains and brought with them (at my suggestion so I could do this very trick of hinting it might apply).
Oh, I also posted a summary of everyone's readings on my campaign yahoo group. I always make a yahoo group with databases, including a graveyard, a trophy wall (for big kills by the party), a group roster, a session summary, and this time a summary of the harrow readings.
Not sure if you can access this or not.