When I GM, I make all the rolls of the dice visible to my players. I don't hide any rolls behind the screen. If they get a critical against them that could kill their character, so be it. This gives the game an edge making it a real challenge and the players know I'm not being soft on them.
On the other hand, alot can be said for rolling behind the screen so that you can "fudge" the rolls if you don't want to kill off a character or you desire a specific outcome.
At some stage in the distant future I may decide to start GMing Pathfinder Society games. In this setting I think I would be more reluctant to roll out in front of the screen. As strange as it sounds, I'd feel more reluctant to kill off someone's character with some unlucky rolls when I don't know them. Also, a TPK in society games is probably not really desirable.
So as a GM, do you roll in front or behind the screen and why? Also, do you think it makes a difference if it's a pathfinder society game as opposed to your regular campaign?
When I GM, I make all the rolls of the dice visible to my players. I don't hide any rolls behind the screen. If they get a critical against them that could kill their character, so be it. This gives the game an edge making it a real challenge and the players know I'm not being soft on them.
On the other hand, alot can be said for rolling behind the screen so that you can "fudge" the rolls if you don't want to kill off a character or you desire a specific outcome.
At some stage in the distant future I may decide to start GMing Pathfinder Society games. In this setting I think I would be more reluctant to roll out in front of the screen. As strange as it sounds, I'd feel more reluctant to kill off someone's character with some unlucky rolls when I don't know them. Also, a TPK in society games is probably not really desirable.
So as a GM, do you roll in front or behind the screen and why? Also, do you think it makes a difference if it's a pathfinder society game as opposed to your regular campaign?
I usually do a mix of both. In my experience, making open rolls in front of everyone increases your credibility.
I rarely fudge rolls though; when I roll behind the screen it is often because that roll will have an important and unknown outcome to the players and I don't want them to metagame.
I would only fudge rolls if something in the encounter went wrong because of me (messed up with a monster's ability. Or maybe put more hill giants than they could possibly deal with etc).
I use a GM screen for for every session I DM. I roll the VAST majority of my dice behind the screen. I pull them out and roll in the open for very key fights with bosses. I also roll it in the open when it is a save or die type of roll vs a player ability.
I will fudge dice when I feel it is needed for the normal exploration/random fights. But in key battles and do or die situations I like to let the players see the dice where they fall... for good and bad to the party.
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So as a GM, do you roll in front or behind the screen and why?
Depends on if I have a screen and room to set it up, I guess. When I 'fudge' I usually say something like '...and I'm going to reroll that...miss!' The players get it and we tell the story. However if the reroll comes up bad as well, I take it as a sign and let it lie. I'll also offer the same to players, 'why dont you reroll that?'
Also, do you think it makes a difference if it's a pathfinder society game as opposed to your regular campaign?
Well...
While we do not advocate fudging die rolls, consider the experience of the player when using especially lethal tactics or if a character is in extreme danger of death, especially when such a player is new to the game. Most players whose first experience in a campaign results in a character death do not return to the campaign.
<snip>
Obviously, we hope that a total party kill never happens (and strive to balance the scenarios to make it unlikely)—but, sometimes, the dice just aren’t with you and everyone passes into the Great Beyond.
...it sounds like PFS is pretty no-fudge to me.
I say roll everything in front of them unless it's a role they don't know is happening like a perception. If not it just heads towards a more "Oh he'll never let us make it to easy or let us die!" which means the PCs don't really need to be PCs anymore.
If you mess up a monster's ability or such just say, "Sorry I did such and such, so to even it out everyone get back such and such. That should about even it out." Although many runners just aren't brave enough to admit they made a mistake.
I prefer to see rolls in front of everyone, as a player.
I don't really want the DM to fudge- not if its the BBEG, not if its some passing encounter with a kobold.
I don't want him to fudge crits or death blows or whatnot.. just let the dice fall as they may- just as they do for the players.
PFS is the same, to me. Roll it in the open. Don't save anyone from the dice- player or monster alike.
-S
I had a real problem with cheating so now everyone rolls in a box and no one touches a die until I see it. I also roll in the box for in combat roles, but if I am making secret rolls (such as an enemy making a stealth check) I hide it.
I used to switch it up. Our whole group (3/5 of us DM regularly, only 1 of us never has) recently has just not been using the DM screen. We don't have much table space, for one thing, and the screen tends to just be in our way, even when we were using a huge ping-pong table to play on.
We also roll our own stealth checks and such. [shrug] Transparency at the table has never been an issue really; we have fun, crazy things happen, laughs are had, so on and so forth...
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My group has told me they are fine with fudging, so I try to use it judiciously. When a die roll is of vital importance and I want everyone to know it's not me intervening, I roll in front. Things like miss chances on nearly dead characters and the like. I would gladly roll without a screen, but my players think that's too deadly. :)
However, you can still have secret rolls even in the open. Just don't tell the players what that roll meant, and roll plenty of meaningless rolls. They'll never know if that natural 20 was a Stealth check for the monster about to eat their characters. ;)
However, you can still have secret rolls even in the open. Just don't tell the players what that roll meant. They'll never know if that natural 20 was a Stealth check for the monster about to eat their characters. ;)
I like this idea. I can see how this could add suspense and intrigue to your game.
I mostly roll behind my lovely GM screen and my players trust me to be fair. Sometimes I fudge dice (against and for my players) but that's very rare these days. Some interesting rolls I'm ready to roll in front of my player's to show I'm not fudging but enemy is stronger than they thought it would be (like "Okay fort save versus your spell.. *roll in open* and plus +15 fort save. He resist your spell and turns to look at you angrily, he knowns what you tried to do").
I roll in secret as often as I can, the only reason not rolling behind my big fat GM screen is because I want a certain openness on the table during some time.
My reasoning: I don't need to fudge very often, but it is suspicious if I pull out my GM screen for only 1 roll.
When I GM, I make all the rolls of the dice visible to my players. I don't hide any rolls behind the screen. If they get a critical against them that could kill their character, so be it. This gives the game an edge making it a real challenge and the players know I'm not being soft on them.
I believe that this is the best way to handle the game. Fudging is not for me.
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Rolling them behind the screen is when players should not know the result, for example: "is this water edible or is that black mushroom a dead giveaway that it is poisoned?" *rollingbehindscreen* "you think it's edible."
if you need to fudge you should think about introducing a hero point system instead
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I prefer hurling the dice at our players whilst screaming:
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..then they are obliged/forced to pick up each die with their butt cheeks.
It takes some practice but with proper training and focus, and the appropriate application of clenched-cheek pressure, the results are their own reward.
but if I am making secret rolls (such as an enemy making a stealth check) I hide it.
I think enemy stealth and perception rolls may be the most important time rolling behind the screens is warranted. I might start doing this when I GM and make all other rolls out in the open.
I'll roll randomm effects(weather, how many people are in town, are there animals around you, etc...) right in front of the player, but won't tell them what I'm doing.
Some things, such as a player making a disguise check, which is needed to be rolled in secret by the GM so the player doesn't know how good his or her disguise is, need to be rolled away from the table. I keep an empty chair next to me for that though :)
Rolls are made in the open and I don't fudge. Adventuring is dangerous, common folk don't take to it lightly, there should be an element of danger, GM fudging makes it safer imo. Certain rolls are made behind screen, sneak and perception for the most part.
I roll in the open as a GM and I prefer it that way as a player. I tend to have really streaky dice, both good and bad so I like them to see it. Also it makes me feel more part of the game. Any secret rolls I still do when needed (and I like TOZ's roll at the end of the session thing).
Basically I don't like the GM fudging anything for or against me when I play and I like my players to know I don't do the same either.
I usually have a screen, and most of my friends do too. It's what we are used to, and what we expect. I never thought there was a whole lot of fudging coming from any of them (maybe some), and I personally have only fudged a few die rolls.
There were only a few times when I didn't use a screen, and usually it was, as others have said, to up the tension. For instance, I gave one of my players a 1-on-1 session for a new character so as to introduce him to the campaign, and I had him facing a troll. I rolled everything in the open so everyone would know that it was his own fault for not running away. He killed the troll. All because the troll never managed to get of a rend attack.
I'm infamous for rolling everything in the open, and for not fudging.
That said, I do use hero points, so there's a chance for "plot immunity" at times -- but at the players' control, not mine, and limited in scope and number of uses.
For secret rolls, someone recently told me about "passive" Perception rolls (in essence, all the PCs automatically Take 10 unless they call for a check at some point) -- I've been meaning to try that out. Does anyone have any experience with that?
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I roll nearly all my rolls behind the GM screen. The main reason has nothing to do with the ability to fudge. If it were an issue for my players, I would roll in front of them, but honestly, my playing field is cut down by my gm screen anyway since I have to shield the game material from them anyway, so its mostly convenience and habit.
I do roll damage for major hits or criticals that might kill someone out in the open, since its sort of a suspenseful moment as we all wait for the dice to stop rolling and reveal their fate.
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Behind the screen. You take away some of the mystery when everything is right out on the table. Also, experienced players can learn a lot of information they shouldn't know if you roll everything in the open.
We had a GM/DM who didn't use the screen. His combats went like this:
GM: (Open roll a 16 on D20) What's your AC?
Fighter: 22
GM: Missed you.
Players look at each other, do some quick math, and realize the monster only has at best +5 to hit.
Everyone loses any feeling that this encounter is a challenge. Fighter power attacks rest of fight. Rogue doesn't bother to try to tumble to get a flank. Wizard doesn't cast anything because it's a pushover fight.
Priest gets up to get a snack.
Wizard: I cast "flaming sphere" where the guard captain is. Reflex DC 15.
GM: (Open rolls a 3) He dodges it.
Wizard: He has a +12 reflex? OK, next round I move it to one of the other guards. I'm not gonna waste it trying to hit someone with a +12 or better reflex.
Finally the players asked the GM to start using the screen because the fights were boring when it was easy to figure out just how much or how little a challenge the encounters were.
The screen also allows fudging, which should be in every GM's arsenal.
The GM is rolling more dice per encounter than any single player, and by the odds going to roll criticals more often. And usually against the same 2-3 front line characters. On a hot dice night, the GM could kill a character who wasn't played badly.
Or the character falls in a pit and the GM rolls a Yatzee; all 6's. And what should have been an injured character requiring the priest to expend some resources becomes a dead character.
In either example you have a player who sits out of the game at least the rest of the evening.
Lastly, it takes a lot away from the game to roll in the open, IMHO. I'd rather hear, "The battle axe swishes by your head, barely missing you." instead of see the GM roll a "5" and say, "He missed."
We had a GM/DM who didn't use the screen. His combats went like this:
GM: (Open roll a 16 on D20) What's your AC?
Fighter: 22
GM: Missed you.
Players look at each other, do some quick math, and realize the monster only has at best +5 to hit.Everyone loses any feeling that this encounter is a challenge. Fighter power attacks rest of fight. Rogue doesn't bother to try to tumble to get a flank. Wizard doesn't cast anything because it's a pushover fight.
My dangerous fights generally don't last long enough for this to be an issue. There are rapid declarations, frantic positioning, and a flurry of dice rolls, and then one side or the other is dead. If it's a pushover fight, I sometimes don't mind the players realizing that, so they can do fun stuff they'd never try in an about-to-die conflict.
I like to be able to fudge the dice if need be but if you roll openly, there is no real way to do it. Conversely, you can use a DM screen to allow for secret rolls but I feel the DM screen gets in the way of an open table and makes the players feel cut off. Thus, I prefer to roll dice in a dice tower. The dice tower has a couple benefits that combine the best things about DM vs No DM screen. It doesn't block my view and access to the players while at the same time allowing me to keep my rolls secret.
I generally sit behind my GM screen to hide my notes etc. Sometimes I like to move from behind it and feel like I am more actively 'playing' during combat. I enjoy watching the players overcome my challenges, and applaud them for quickly overcoming an encounter that took me two days to prepare.
I will fudge some rolls, but generally only damage. If the NPC lands a hit, the player takes it, but if they have been unlucky in other ways I'll reduce the damage.
I am trying a new system of revealing the AC of foes to the players, to speed up combat. I clip to the player-side of the GM screen a sheet with the basic appearance (race, weapon, armour, description & AC) of the enemy, and an image where possible. I keep the same sort of info of the players on my side of the screen, so that the enemy wizard can choose who to target first based on their appearance, just as the players do to the bad guys.
But we are a group of friends who've been playing for a few years now.
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I roll behind a screen but rarely fudge. It's mostly due to the set up of how we play. It's rare we sit around a table so most of the Players can see my dice anyway. Not fudging really forces a GM to learn the craft of improvisation, when a lowly mook's lucky rolls make him a combat god, or a mighty boss into an unspectacular wimp you need to learnt to, pardon the pun, roll with it.
I've never used a screen before and most likely never will. I wasn't even aware that Dungeon Master screens exsisted until about two years ago when I was a guest at another Dungeon Master's game. The concept that he would want to hide his dice rolls from the players blew my mind.
Of course he turned out to be one of those Dungeon Masters that rolls the dice just to hear the sound it makes, demended rerolls if he didn't see a player roll their dice (or pretend to not see) and would just smirk at you if you rolled well. So, naturally, it didn't make a good impression upon me to take up any of his Dungeon Mastering habits.
I've never had any problem with rolling in the open and my players seem to prefer it, especially those that came from the other Dungeon Master. However I'm not above jiggling the results in the players favor if it seems like it would be better for the game and they know I'm doing it. No one wants to lose their character because the nameless goon got lucky.
Ok first of all the DM screen (especially Paizo's) is great for quick rule reference, other than that that's what i like:
(to give better content to the OP: i am mostly a player than a DM)
Roll behind a screen but be sure that most of your fudge happens when the probality rules decide to go out for dinner that afternoon/night for any one player (including the DM)
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I like to do a combination of the two; when the players know a roll is coming, I generally always make that roll out where they can see it via my sexxy dice tower. Secret rolls [perception & stealth for example] stay behind the screen. Hell, sometimes I randomly throw dice and "check" them behind the screen just to keep the tension up. "What was your touch AC again? Okay, nevermind . . ." or "you still have that magical sphere you picked up in the dwarf vault, right?"
Good times.
I like to be able to fudge the dice if need be but if you roll openly, there is no real way to do it.
Why not? First session of a campaign during the gunslinger playtest I was rolling to hit the rogue with a musket. First roll of the night I crit and confirm. d12 x4 Rogue had 7 hp he didn't stand a chance after the first 2 die so I just told him to go to -5 and start rolling to stabilize. If it would have been later in the campaign I would have let him die, but right away I give some leeway for the first couple levels. I think I mentioned above that I roll in a box, if I need to fudge it I will sometimes roll and pick up the dice real quick before anyone sees it (people get tired of leaning up to look at each and every roll after an hour or so). Another solution is to change the modifier or the DC the PC's usually won't even notice.
Most things I roll in the open. One big one that I roll secretly the player's sense motive. Telling Bill that Jane seems legit and Bob that Jane seems full of it works 100x better when Bob isn't looking at a nat 15 while Bill is looking at a nat 3.
I like to do a combination of the two; when the players know a roll is coming, I generally always make that roll out where they can see it via my sexxy dice tower.
What's a dice tower?
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Ok first of all the DM screen (especially Paizo's) is great for quick rule reference, other than that that's what i like:
(to give better content to the OP: i am mostly a player than a DM)
Roll behind a screen but be sure that most of your fudge happens when the probality rules decide to go out for dinner that afternoon/night for any one player (including the DM)
I had forgotten about that but yes, the screens are full of chart and data goodness... the only thing I really miss from the charts is the spellcraft rolls...seems like we always have to look up that one chart as its used often enough to need but not often enough to memorize yet.
What do GMs that don't use screens do about module/AP/homebrew notes and maps being visible to the players? Do you all use a laptop instead or something?
I like to do a combination of the two; when the players know a roll is coming, I generally always make that roll out where they can see it via my sexxy dice tower.What's a dice tower?
It's a collection of ramps that lead into a pocket for your dice to roll into. Some people just have plastic dice towers, others might have a dice tower that looks like a wizard observatory. Mostly for the fun clanking sound and decorative appeal.
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It's a collection of ramps that lead into a pocket for your dice to roll into. Some people just have plastic dice towers, others might have a dice tower that looks like a wizard observatory. Mostly for the fun clanking sound and decorative appeal.I like to do a combination of the two; when the players know a roll is coming, I generally always make that roll out where they can see it via my sexxy dice tower.What's a dice tower?
Only its not fun at all; Its downright awful.
I usually have a stack of books on either side of me at the table, and roll the dice in between them. That way the dice usually stay hidden, but every once in a while one will roll out and be visible. I find that keeps the players from being suspicious while still providing the benefits of hidden rolls.
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I roll behind a screen, fudge when I feel I need to and feel no better or worse a DM for doing so.
I can't imagine rolling in front of my players openly. Big Bad Guy rolling bad tonight, making the "climactic" encounter a pushover? Time for some crits and stupid good rolls on spell damage to increase the tension. Lowly goblins rolling 20's left and right? That's OK, it's only 4 damage - making the fight what it should be, a non-event.
I would never want my DM to roll in front of me - being the most experienced player in my group, I taught the others to DM (no one had done it seriously before - just messing around), and said "You roll behind a screen so you can fudge if you need to. If you do, never let us in on the decision."
Let me give two examples...
The players' fun is number one. The DM needs to be in control at all time (even over die rolls - except the players'), to ensure the players are having fun. Period.
In the second instance, I let him die because realism is part of the game, and me and those players acknowledged and accepted that and they said "We want the opportunity to be killed, but also the possibility to succeed". So I gave them that.
At least, that's how I see it.