I'm not sure I understand how to use this ability effectively. Adding intelligence to initiative is a no brainer but the second part is what gets me.
Other than wielding a reach weapon, which doesn't seem like what a kensai Magus would use, how can a Kensai make use of being able to take attacks of opportunity while flat footed and drawing a weapon a weapon as part of that for free.
I get the fluff, but without a reach weapon how does a Kensai take advantage of Iajutsu?
What if an enemy provokes an AoO during the surprise round and you don't have a weapon drawn?
But without a reach weapon I can't see enemies provoking attacks of opportunity? Perhaps there are more things that provoke AoO than I know of, AoO rarely come up whenever my group plays.
The only case I can think of is if I have a reach weapon and an enemy charges in to right next to me. But if I had a scimitar no AoO would occur.
What other things might happen to trigger an AoO in the surprise round.
Lots of thing provoke AoO. Unarmed attacks, most combat maneuvers, casting spells. moving in a threatened square. It also means you do not have to have a weapon drawn to threaten the target.
Lots of thing provoke AoO. Unarmed attacks, most combat maneuvers, casting spells. moving in a threatened square. It also means you do not have to have a weapon drawn to threaten the target.
I realize those things provoke AoO but they rarely happen in my experience. By a wide margin, the main way AoO happen in my groups experience is fighting larger things whose reach exceeds yours, so you have to move through their threatened squares to melee them.
In the other cases you mentioned I feel like the only people who make unarmed strikes, are those who have Improved Unarmed Strikes, and the only people who make X Combat Maneuver instead of just attacking something, are those who have Improved X Maneuver.
I get how the rule works but I wanted to find more ways to utilize the ability.
That part of Iaijutsu is about as situationally useful as any other AoO ability/feat (like Combat Reflexes). In my session just yesterday, we were fighting in somewhat close quarters (about 12 bodies in a 30' x 60' warehouse with cargo taking up a lot of spaces), so it was really hard not to provoke AoOs without taking 5' steps every round. Plus, the party's Monk was tripping our enemies, making them provoke AoOs from at least two of us when they had to get back up. Reach weapons make it easier sometimes, but in my experience, if you really want someone to provoke those attacks from you, then you have to actively try to make them do it.
Lots of thing provoke AoO. Unarmed attacks, most combat maneuvers, casting spells. moving in a threatened square. It also means you do not have to have a weapon drawn to threaten the target.I realize those things provoke AoO but they rarely happen in my experience. By a wide margin, the main way AoO happen in my groups experience is fighting larger things whose reach exceeds yours, so you have to move through their threatened squares to melee them.
In the other cases you mentioned I feel like the only people who make unarmed strikes, are those who have Improved Unarmed Strikes, and the only people who make X Combat Maneuver instead of just attacking something, are those who have Improved X Maneuver.
I get how the rule works but I wanted to find more ways to utilize the ability.
Sounds like your DM just doesn't run encounters with dumb monsters. If you've never fought a stupid goblin or orc that provoked attacks of opportunity, then your DM just isn't going to provide you with them. You probably won't get much use without forcing them.
You could trip stuff. When it stands back up, it provokes. I think most of the "greater [insert combat maneuver]" feats cause enemies to provoke for different things.
I wouldn't place too much emphasis on iaijutsu though.
Because in the surprise round, my minions often provoke AoOs by rushing past the meat wall to the guy with the gun in the back... when flatfooted, the party cannot AoO. There are other abilities that make you flatfooted. With this ability, you'd really surprise people who would count on you being unable to react, especially if you haven't drawn your weapon.
Don't forget, monsters know enough about combat to know that puny humans rarely can make AoOs without a weapon drawn... they would feel confident in doing things that provoke in that situation. Be a kensai, and show them how wrong they can be!
Just before they explode into bags of loot and XP.
Your GM (or you) may also not be playing 'stupid monsters' stupid enough. They get distracted by shiny objects, loud noises, their friends head falling off... You name it!
They provoke attacks of opportunity to move into a marginally better (or not even marginally better, but just 'different'!) position on the battlefield, or they get single-tracked and attack the same opponent over and over and over, charging after him past people if he retreats... Leaving any threatened space provokes an AoO (barring the 5' step which is the ONLY movement you can make during a round if you take it, or the Withdraw fullround action), and lots of guys will try to move around without in dangerous terrain if you play with with sufficiently inadequate intelligence.
We have AT LEAST one AoO during every combat we play, I think, except the ones that don't last one round. (Poor giant spiders...)
Edit: Uh... one hour ninja'd by Foghammer? >.>
Your GM (or you) may also not be playing 'stupid monsters' stupid enough. They get distracted by shiny objects, loud noises, their friends head falling off... You name it!
They provoke attacks of opportunity to move into a marginally better (or not even marginally better, but just 'different'!) position on the battlefield, or they get single-tracked and attack the same opponent over and over and over, charging after him past people if he retreats... Leaving any threatened space provokes an AoO (barring the 5' step which is the ONLY movement you can make during a round if you take it, or the Withdraw fullround action), and lots of guys will try to move around without in dangerous terrain if you play with with sufficiently inadequate intelligence.
We have AT LEAST one AoO during every combat we play, I think, except the ones that don't last one round. (Poor giant spiders...)
Edit: Uh... one hour ninja'd by Foghammer? >.>
XD It's okay. I think you said it better.
ok so your opponent insults you and goes to draw his weapon draw aoo
he goes to hit you in the face boom aoo he goes to run away you draw and aoo. all of which you could not normally do without already haveing your weapon drawn.
ok so your opponent insults you and goes to draw his weapon draw aoo
he goes to hit you in the face boom aoo he goes to run away you draw and aoo. all of which you could not normally do without already haveing your weapon drawn.
I don't think drawing a weapon provoke. Now if his weapon were a potion or scroll in his bag...
hmm i was pretty sure drawing a weapon in melee did provoke maybe im wrong
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Anyway, without a weapon in hand, you don't threaten, and thus you don't get any AoO. The ability doesn't work.This. Because you do not threaten any squares when you are unarmed, and the ability doesn't change that rule, it does not work at all unless you have Improved Unarmed Strike or natural weapons. If you're a typical PC race straight-class Kensai, the ability simply doesn't work as intended.
The Rule of Obvious Legality would seem to apply here.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Anyway, without a weapon in hand, you don't threaten, and thus you don't get any AoO. The ability doesn't work.This. Because you do not threaten any squares when you are unarmed, and the ability doesn't change that rule, it does not work at all unless you have Improved Unarmed Strike or natural weapons. If you're a typical PC race straight-class Kensai, the ability simply doesn't work as intended.
I agree. The way I wrote it doesn't actually map to what was in my head. While my input is wholly unofficial at this stage, if I were to suggest a better way that I could have worded the ability in the turnover, I would say something like:
The schtick is intended to be that the kensai is sitting there with his sword on his hip, and even if you get the drop on him and roll up on him he can still bust out the weapon and bring the pain in one graceful motion, all in the space of an eyeblink. Basically, a reactive Quick Draw on the off chance he actually loses initiative despite his bonuses.
If you are running a home game, that was my RAI and you can take it for whatever it's worth. If you are running PFS or some similar RAW situation, you must wait for an official erratum or clarification from Sean, Stephen, Jason B., etc.
Anyway, without a weapon in hand, you don't threaten, and thus you don't get any AoO. The ability doesn't work.This. Because you do not threaten any squares when you are unarmed, and the ability doesn't change that rule, it does not work at all unless you have Improved Unarmed Strike or natural weapons. If you're a typical PC race straight-class Kensai, the ability simply doesn't work as intended.I agree. The way I wrote it doesn't actually map to what was in my head. While my input is wholly unofficial at this stage, if I were to suggest a better way that I could have worded the ability in the turnover, I would say something like:
The schtick is intended to be that the kensai is sitting there with his sword on his hip, and even if you get the drop on him and roll up on him he can still bust out the weapon and bring the pain in one graceful motion, all in the space of an eyeblink. Basically, a reactive Quick Draw on the off chance he actually loses initiative despite his bonuses.
If you are running a home game, that was my RAI and you can take it for whatever it's worth. If you are running PFS or some similar RAW situation, you must wait for an official erratum or clarification from Sean, Stephen, Jason B., etc.
Thanks for that clarification of intent Jason! Tho that's how I was interpreting it anyways, Its good to know that was your intent as well!
Now if only I can find more uses for the ability to come up... Any other ideas Jason?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Anyway, without a weapon in hand, you don't threaten, and thus you don't get any AoO. The ability doesn't work.This. Because you do not threaten any squares when you are unarmed, and the ability doesn't change that rule, it does not work at all unless you have Improved Unarmed Strike or natural weapons. If you're a typical PC race straight-class Kensai, the ability simply doesn't work as intended.I agree. The way I wrote it doesn't actually map to what was in my head. While my input is wholly unofficial at this stage, if I were to suggest a better way that I could have worded the ability in the turnover, I would say something like:
The schtick is intended to be that the kensai is sitting there with his sword on his hip, and even if you get the drop on him and roll up on him he can still bust out the weapon and bring the pain in one graceful motion, all in the space of an eyeblink. Basically, a reactive Quick Draw on the off chance he actually loses initiative despite his bonuses.
If you are running a home game, that was my RAI and you can take it for whatever it's worth. If you are running PFS or some similar RAW situation, you must wait for an official erratum or clarification from Sean, Stephen, Jason B., etc.
Thanks for that clarification of intent Jason! Tho that's how I was interpreting it anyways, Its good to know that was your intent as well!
Now if only I can find more uses for the ability to come up... Any other ideas Jason?
The core of the ability really is the straight initiative bonus. The "You think I'm easy prey but I draw my sword and slice your face open before you even touch me" trick is kind of icing on the cake, a trick you can pull off every once a while that will be pretty cool, but not really supposed to be the sort of thing that will come up all the time.