Argh. If King's The Stand is fantasy, rather than Horror, then certainly Clive Barker deserves a spot or two or three on the list -- not for dreck like the Hellbound Heart, but for things like The Great and Secret Show (the Nuncio and Kissoon's Loop should cinch it right there), Weaveworld, and most especially Imajica -- the breadth and sweep of imagination in the latter easily dwarfs almost every other entry on the Top 100 list.
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Argh. If King's The Stand is fantasy, rather than Horror, then certainly Clive Barker deserves a spot or two or three on the list -- not for dreck like the Hellbound Heart, but for things like The Great and Secret Show (the Nuncio and Kissoon's Loop should cinch it right there), Weaveworld, and most especially Imajica -- the breadth and sweep of imagination in the latter easily dwarfs almost every other entry on the Top 100 list.
Well I wouldn't say dwarfs but Imajica fits as well and better than many others on this list. The Stand yeah wrong genre.
I removed a couple posts and resulting replies. Debate is fine, put please make sure it remains civil.
I agree that FOUNDATION and ENDER'S GAME are important due to their influence. But both have dated, in Foundation's case very badly. The difference with books like THE STARS MY DESTINATION, A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ and HG Wells' work is that they are genuinely well-written novels that feel like they could have been written yesterday (certain old-school beliefs about science and technology aside).
Since I apparently am not allowed to disagree in any protracted manner.
Asimov > HG Wells
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I agree that FOUNDATION and ENDER'S GAME are important due to their influence. But both have dated, in Foundation's case very badly. The difference with books like THE STARS MY DESTINATION, A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ and HG Wells' work is that they are genuinely well-written novels that feel like they could have been written yesterday (certain old-school beliefs about science and technology aside).Since I apparently am not allowed to disagree in any protracted manner.
Asimov > HG Wells
Honestly this a debate I don't have any real feelings for. I like Wells, I like Asimov. I do not think either is better or worse, just different.
I agree that FOUNDATION and ENDER'S GAME are important due to their influence. But both have dated, in Foundation's case very badly. The difference with books like THE STARS MY DESTINATION, A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ and HG Wells' work is that they are genuinely well-written novels that feel like they could have been written yesterday (certain old-school beliefs about science and technology aside).Since I apparently am not allowed to disagree in any protracted manner.
Asimov > HG Wells
Honestly this a debate I don't have any real feelings for. I like Wells, I like Asimov. I do not think either is better or worse, just different.
Like I said, since I can't make a protracted argument, it boils down to that.
I still want to know where Wells predicted nuclear warfare.
Wells commentary about the social results of unregulated capitalism is still very actual.
Anyway, trying to establish an absolute and objective scale to value books seems like a slippery undertaking.
Wells commentary about the social results of unregulated capitalism is still very actual.
Of course if we want to stray outside sci-fi, we could find an overwhelming mountain of such works, and other social commentary.
And I still don't see crap about nuclear warfare. That first list strained credulity and the second was kind of a summary of.. things.
HG Wells used atomic bombs in THE WORLD SET FREE, published in 1914.
Argh. If King's The Stand is fantasy, rather than Horror, then certainly Clive Barker deserves a spot or two or three on the list -- not for dreck like the Hellbound Heart, but for things like The Great and Secret Show (the Nuncio and Kissoon's Loop should cinch it right there), Weaveworld, and most especially Imajica -- the breadth and sweep of imagination in the latter easily dwarfs almost every other entry on the Top 100 list.
Agreed. IMAGICA and WEAVEWORLD are certainly deserving of a place on such a list.
I think THE STAND is certainly fantasy though. King was inspired to write it after conceiving of the idea of writing a work of the breadth and scope of THE LORD OF THE RINGS but set in contemporary America, and there are a few fantastical elements in there (such as Randall Flagg and the ending). THE STAND also ties in with King's much more overtly fantastical DARK TOWER sequence and EYE OF THE DRAGON.
The list specifically excludes Young Adult/children's novels, so I expect The Hobbit will show up there.Yes, god forbid that JK Rowling might show up near the top of a list. If she wasn't so rich that she could buy all of the other authors on the list, combined (yes, even when the list includes Stephen King), she'd be mighty pissed how the Young Adult bestseller list was created and all of the other bestseller lists she was on were retconned almost a decade back for the explicit purpose of keeping Harry Potter out of the discussion and record books.
I'm not saying that her books are the be all and end all -- but as a series, they are certainly better than half of the books on this list. Worse, the whole list definition thing, whether it's a bestseller list or otherwise, is "rigged" in a manner so as to keep Harry Potter out of the list. It's pathetic, really.
Except that there's going to be a whole Young Adult list where, I'm sure, Harry Potter and The Hobbit will feature prominently.
EDIT: I'd imagine that Le Guin's Earthsea books are also missing for the same reason.
EDIT II: And The Chronicles of Narnia and Philip Pullman, although I haven't read the latter.
Down, Steel Wind, down!
What, no one wants to talk about kiddie books?
All right, so this list is all over the place. Classical kiddie lit, fantasy kiddie lit and recent faves all in one place. Listing what is missing would take forever so I'll stick to five:
C.S. Lewis--The Chronicles of Narnia--I know, the movies kind of sucked, but still, these books are pretty awesome!
Lloyd Alexander--The Chronicles of Prydain--Gurgi, m*!~!!&$*#%+, Gurgi! Ffleweddyr Fflam (sp?) is the shiznit, too.
L. Frank Baum--The Wizard of Oz--Seriously?
Judy Blume is severely underrepresented, and where is Beverly Cleary?!?
My Side of the Mountain--it made the young Doodlebug try to run away. I didn't make it very far.
Okay, that's kind of six, whatevs. Goblins can't count.
(Oh yeah, The Indian in the Cupboard)
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Omitting stuff I haven't read and putting in what grade I was in when I can remember:
5. The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien--Maybe you've heard of this? It's alright. First read in 2nd grade; it changed my life.
6. The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger--As did this one, but not as much as, say, Mark David Chapman's. 8th or 9th grade.
7. The Lord of the Rings (series), by J.R.R. Tolkien--On the other list
12. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (series), by Douglas Adams--On the other list.
13. The Outsiders, by S.E. Hinton--Hell yeah! F#!* the socs! First read in 2nd grade; sparked a lifelong interest in juvenile delinquency and class war.
14. Anne of Green Gables (series), by Lucy Maud Montgomery--I never read these, but I have a younger sister and I had to watch all one million hours of the PBS series. Damn you, Ms. Montgomery!
18. Lord of the Flies, by William Golding--I somehow made it through high school without ever reading this.
33. The Call of the Wild, by Jack London--I read this sometime in elementary school. I don't really remember all that much about it. Something about dogs, I think.
41. Dune, by Frank Herbert--On the other list
44. The Dark is Rising (series), by Susan Cooper--I know I read at least one of these books in elementary school, but I don't remember it.
47. Earthsea (series), by Ursula K. Le Guin--Hells yeah! My faves is The Tombs of Atuan. First read as an adult.
51. Treasure Island, by Robert Louis Stevenson--First read in elementary school. Pretty awesome, but I wish the pirates had won and keel-hauled all of the stuffed shirts.
The Last Unicorn, by Peter S. Beagle--On the other list, I think. If not, it's awesome!
92. Leviathan (series), by Scott Westerfeld--I read these within the last year. They're pretty fun.
Somehow I missed Tuck Everlasting which is odd since I've been trying to get Fleshgrinder to read it for the past month. Actually, though, I don't remember all that much about it. Read it in 4th grade.
Fine, screw you guys. I'm taking my ball and going home.
[THREAD LOCKED]
One fella who passed away this past year was John Christopher, author of The Tripods trilogy and some other great science fiction novels, like No Blade of Grass.
That's sad, but what are you doing in here?!? I locked this thread!!!
*peeks in*
All right, fine.
[Unlocks thread]
Looks around
I'm good.
Leaves
THE HUNGER GAMES is a vaguely readable series, but #2 on such a list? Ahead of LORD OF THE FLIES and, well, almost everything else on the list? A hyperbolic placement.
THE HITCH-HIKER'S GUIDE TO THE GALAXY is not YA in any form. And Diana Wynne-Jones is depressingly far down the list.
This list suffers much from what I call "Reader-Driven-Poll"itis. See above somewhere. I bet that NPR-listening parents got their kids to vote as well. Or else I'm just making up excuses for impending middle-agedom.
There are a number of problems with lists like this. First, a combined SF/fantasy list, and they don't call it speculative fiction, especially when they add in 1984 and Slaughterhouse 5? Dare to split the genres, and end up with something a tad more useful. Second, there are genre-defining works in all genres, and these should not reasonably be compared to other, subsequent works. All that will happen is what we see here, Lord of the Rings beats all opposition. Who could claim that LotR was worse than what came after? Let Lord of the Rings and a few other books be accepted as forerunners and ideals, no matter their literary qualities, and leave them out of voting like this. Third, which has been repeatedly brought up: Voting by word of mouth and spreading the message in fan clubs isn't going to achieve a useful result. At most, you can get a collection of 100 relatively famous works.
Sissyl, that poll is old, old news.
It's the "Vindication a year later!" post where all the new excitement is.
Bah. It doesn't matter. All my three points are still quite relevant. Even if Harry Potter dunked Lord of the Rings. Useless list updated remains a useless list.
Sissyl, they are two entirely different useless lists.
Bah. :-)
No CJ Cherryh?
Invalid list.
It's as simple as that.
What's with all the Wheel of Time hate in this thread?