Archer Build

[StreamOfTheSky]

Seeking, Distance, Speed.... the only one that makes sense not being good on a bow/crossbow is Brilliant Energy, and that one already had text in the description explicitly forbidding it on ranged weapons other than ammunition.

So PF just added this stupid superscript rule that 3E never had and made the game worse and more complicated for no good reason. Awesome.

My friend argued that at least for distance and speed, they HAVE to be intrinsic to the weapon itself (ammo doesn't have a range increment the launchers are what determines that; having a "speed arrow" makes now sense, either you have an extra attack per round or you don't, spontaneously changing that w/ a special arrow is just odd). But yeah, Seeking is screwed. I think I'm gonna start a new thread to get that FAQ'd.

EDIT: Thread created.

[ZordonAndAlpha]

I gave my explanation of rules that make sense to me. Hope it helps.

And my GM has come to me and said Manyshot and Rapid Shot cannot stack since both are Feats and blah blah blah they both change damage output so blah blah blah aren't passive... blah blah don't stack. This seemed fair. But if Vital Strike doesn't stack with manyshot either then I'm forced to basically have a lot of options on how to fire my bow, but none of them are really all the superior to just simply firing my bow as a full round action or running and then firing my bow. So really, when does a ranger's damage output ever become that good being a strait forward ranger. If you don't allow some of the feats to stack then the ranger seems as a lone class to be a total dud. You'd have to dip into other classes which would put you far behind the progression, just to be capable of having mediocre damage later on. And since you don't have a whole lot put into constitution most like since Wisdom for spells, dex for accuracy, and strength for bonus damage probably took your 3 top stats you rolled, you are basically going to die before you ever reach the stage where you get a lot of damage. Luckily my GM is not trying to be a meanie anymore so he's letting me play my ranger as a Manyshot & Vital Strike Stacking machine who can still deal a med-high amount of damage. Although I no longer am stacking Rapid shot to get an additional attack per turn at the -2. But I can make it up with the BAB giving me another attack at a lower bonus later anyway, so oh well.

But if you can't power game a ranger this way, I don't see any real way to power game a normal ranger without doing multiclassing or a bunch of trait changes for races or possibly using an advance race guide to try and maximize what you can. But even then I feel you come up a little short. So you'd have to go zen or something like alchemist to even bother, which makes ranger a waste of time for paizo to have ever included. Unless things for him are fixed.

Which also, I've seen some oversights in the ruling of certain magic items in the new ultimate equipment guide. In some places where "Wisdom" should be I've seen "Charisma" in it's place. I've seen weapons titled as one thing, then mentioned in the text beneath as having a different name. I've seen text limiting an item to a +5 bonus but having price listings for it up to a +7 bonus. That didn't make any sense.

So my ultimate complaint is essentially. Is paizo simply getting sloppy with things? I mean if they need someone to spell check things and check grammar and things to make everything a bit easier to understand I'd be happy to apply for the position. [And I say spell check since I've noticed some "Dexerity" checks being mentioned... and I'm not quite sure what those are but I have a feeling it's "Dexterity checks" they just misspelled it. But leave it to somebody on the forums to say you must have ranks in "DEXERITY" [missing a T] as a skill to have whatever do whatever cool thing, making it impossible.]

[StreamOfTheSky]

Your GM is completely wrong. Rapid Shot and Manyshot blatantly stack.

You *cannot* stack manyshot with vital strike, though. It requires full attacking, which vital strike is not. But Rapid Shot IS.

[Gauss]

StreamOfTheSky is correct. Feats stack all the time. What does not usually stack are specific bonuses.

Note: Some feats specifically state they take a standard action, you cannot combine those with full-attack actions. Some feats that are standard actions can be combined with other feats that are standard actions and the same for Full-attack actions combining with full-attack actions. It depends on the wording.

Level 6 fighter example:

For this example the level 6 fighter has the following feats:
* Point Blank Shot (+1attack/damage within 30feet)
* Rapid Shot (-2attack penalty for an extra shot when taking a full-attack action)
* Weapon Focus Longbow (+1attack bonus)
* Weapon Specialization Longbow (+2damage bonus)
* Precise Shot (Removes the penalty for shooting into melee)
* Deadly Aim (at level 6 a -2attack penalty for a +4damage bonus)
* Point Blank Master (do not suffer attacks of opportunity for shooting while threatened)

Dexterity is 18 (+4bonus) and Strength is 14 (+2bonus)

Combined with Weapon Training Longbow and a +1 Composite Longbow +2strength we have the following full-attack sequence (within 30feet):

The attack bonuses:
+6(BAB) +4(dexterity) +1(Weapon Training) +1(magic weapon) +1(Point Blank Shot) -2(Rapid Shot) +1(weapon focus) -2(Deadly Aim) = +10

The Damage bonuses:
1d8 +2(strength) +1(Weapon Training) +1(magic weapon) +1(Point Blank Shot) +2(Weapon Specialization) +4(Deadly Aim) = 1d8+11

Attack (and damage) sequence: +10(2arrows for 2d8+22)/+10(1arrow for 1d8+11)/+5(1arrow for 1d8+11)

As you can see, feats stack to devastating effect.

Rangers can do similar with a bow. They wont have the weapon specialization and 1 other feat at the same point but the basic principle is the same.

- Gauss

[Grizzly the Archer]

If that's what your GM thinks, I'd say either have them replaced, sit them down with your tables rules lawyer and a another person who is the most reasonable. Or jut leave the game. FEATS DO AND CAN STACK. Period, no ands ifs or buts. They just do, just like abilities can stack and powers and so forth.

Rapid shot gives you an extra attack. Many shot gives you an extra arrow on your first attack of a full attack. What's so hard about understanding that?

How does the barbarian use cleave and power attack together? How does the Druid use wild shape and strong jaw? Fighter weapon training and dueling gloves? Rapid shot and many shot for archers?

The entire game and rpg style that is pathfinder is based on having things work and stack together IF it is doable. That's the reason there are so many rule questions, because semtimes things don't work the way you think because it's written a certain way or what have you. In this instance your GM is unfortunately incorrect. The two feats do stack together.

[Story Archer]

I've got a really fun and versatile archer build I've played in the past - it deals high damage, is optimized and has a few unusual tricks up its sleeve. Message me if you'd like to see it.

[WrathW1zard]

The understanding I had from Rapid shot and many shot is that they state "when you make a full round attack" so I took it like trying to combine a full attack action with another full attack action. But from reading it it seems more like rapid shot is more like a passive damage boost like point-blank is a passive attack boost. But this is also from a semi-good understanding of combining feats. When we first started it was "oh i can vital strike, rapid shot and manyshot all in the same attack." I am just trying to make sure I am running the rules correctly.