Kardswann's Greaxe

[DM Dan E]

+1 lawful outsider bane

My group has recently come into possession of this. They're immediate reaction was to put it on the sell list and my reaction to that was to wonder if they'd regret their choice later.

Turns out though that the actual list of lawful outsiders is very short. Devils essentially and not a lot of those in the AP.

I find myself wondering whether under 3.5 rules lawful outsider literally meant outsiders of lawful alignment (which would say have included efreet).

Any thoughts?

[Erik Freund]

Here are the 3.5 rules for reference:
link

[catmandrake]

DM Dan E wrote:

+1 lawful outsider bane

My group has recently come into possession of this. They're immediate reaction was to put it on the sell list and my reaction to that was to wonder if they'd regret their choice later.

Turns out though that the actual list of lawful outsiders is very short. Devils essentially and not a lot of those in the AP.

I find myself wondering whether under 3.5 rules lawful outsider literally meant outsiders of lawful alignment (which would say have included efreet).

Any thoughts?

I changed it to a +1 fire outsider bane greataxe in my campaign. Since Kardswann was one of the Templars of the Five Winds, I figured his axe was enchanted to help him fight efreet.

[Dire Mongoose]

DM Dan E wrote:

I find myself wondering whether under 3.5 rules lawful outsider literally meant outsiders of lawful alignment (which would say have included efreet).

I interpreted it that way for the purpose of this campaign because otherwise I think you're right, it seems silly for what it's supposed to be.

[Toadkiller Dog]

catmandrake wrote:

DM Dan E wrote:

+1 lawful outsider bane

My group has recently come into possession of this. They're immediate reaction was to put it on the sell list and my reaction to that was to wonder if they'd regret their choice later.

Turns out though that the actual list of lawful outsiders is very short. Devils essentially and not a lot of those in the AP.

I find myself wondering whether under 3.5 rules lawful outsider literally meant outsiders of lawful alignment (which would say have included efreet).

Any thoughts?

I changed it to a +1 fire outsider bane greataxe in my campaign. Since Kardswann was one of the Templars of the Five Winds, I figured his axe was enchanted to help him fight efreet.

That's too bad. There's a lot of those around in campaign (Tempest, Zayifid's weapon, weapon that Artel Norin can make them) and by giving them one more, it lessens the uniqueness of Tempest. Oh, and btw, it's enhanced, not enchanted. :P

[Akumamajin]

There are way to many fire outsider bane weapons in this AP for my liking. I really like the way Tempest is presented and how it grows in strength, but for example, Zayifid's weapon is nearly as powerful as the fully awakened Tempest right from the start.

In my game I change the powers of the weapons around to diversify thinks and give every player something unique. Zayifid's weapon, vor example, I changed to a +2 keen speed dualsword, quite powerful but more in line with his speedy and roguey nature. Of course, my partys rogue will jump in circles when he eventually gets this, but isn't it nice to give every player some signatur weapon?

And the weapon Artel Norin is making is a special case: he is a master smith and has payed with wounds and severe burns to create this powerful bane weapon, it is characterful, even when it is in the same vain as Tempest (alas not as powerful).

Kardswanns Axe became a +1 Vicious Greataxe, quite mean but befitting the sinister creature he was become without making the item unavailable to the players like an unholy weapon. Just look at his image, that looks quite vicious to me :D

[Cameronvk]

I agree with the idea that the signature weapons should be more unique. For instance The weapon Artel Norn made I am changing to be have the powers of a frost brand, similar to the others but still unique and I am likely to tweak it a bit to bring in more of the dark fire flavor.

[Toadkiller Dog]

Akumamajin wrote:

There are way to many fire outsider bane weapons in this AP for my liking. I really like the way Tempest is presented and how it grows in strength, but for example, Zayifid's weapon is nearly as powerful as the fully awakened Tempest right from the start.

In my game I change the powers of the weapons around to diversify thinks and give every player something unique. Zayifid's weapon, vor example, I changed to a +2 keen speed dualsword, quite powerful but more in line with his speedy and roguey nature. Of course, my partys rogue will jump in circles when he eventually gets this, but isn't it nice to give every player some signatur weapon?

Woah, that's quite a change you made there. Don't you think that changing from a +3 to a +6 weapon is a bit too much? I mean, that weapon alone costs more than the whole party TOGETHER should have at that level.

[Cameronvk]

Honestly I never pay much attention to the recommended wealth levels. They were not part of the game when I started running longer ago than I care to mention and I never felt the need to use them. I just look at what the party can do and make sure to give them a proper challenge. Besides what better to be the weapon forged by Nex's personal weapon smith made to take out an Efrite lord, mix in the cool dark/anti fire component and it should be something special.

[Toadkiller Dog]

I was talking about Zayifid's weapon.

[Akumamajin]

Yeah ... maybe I overdid it a little bit, I am prone to that kind of stuff now and then Actually I didn't think about the wealth level or that the PCs could sell this weapon (what they would never ever do), but just added some cool abilities on top of each other :D

Soooo this is what the weapon will be near the end of the campaign, it will grow in strength while the PC will master it and unlock more and more of its powers, a little bit like Tempest. It will start as a +1 dualshortsword and gain the other abilities along the way.

Hwoo ... sometimes its good not to get too exited at once but talk things through with you guys here :D

[Toadkiller Dog]

That would then diminish the glory and uniqueness of Tempest. If everyone and their mother would suddenly gain weapons that grow in power, that wouldn't be that intresting. Tempest is supposed to be unique and grow in power becasue of Vardishal and Moldspeaker's attachement to it.

I suggest just changing it to +2 Keen weapon. That's still a nice weapon.

[Akumamajin]

Toadkiller Dog wrote:

That would then diminish the glory and uniqueness of Tempest. If everyone and their mother would suddenly gain weapons that grow in power, that wouldn't be that intresting. Tempest is supposed to be unique and grow in power becasue of Vardishal and Moldspeaker's attachement to it.

I suggest just changing it to +2 Keen weapon. That's still a nice weapon.

Hmm this I will take into consideration. But still: Zayifids weapon is, too, a powerful wish-enhanced weapon from one of the templars and as this I don't think its to bad to make it quite powerful, especially in the hands of one who is working for the cause. Still, Tempest has the soul of Vardishal attached, can give flashes of inside and is the awesome weapon of Efreet and Javhul slaying.

I will wrap my head about this a bit and are open for further considerations and opinions.

[Toadkiller Dog]

Well, nowhere is explicitely stated that their weapons are also wish-enhanced. I mean, Tempest's powers come from Vardishal's soul, whereas other templars don't have that connection. And second of all, Zayifid is not a templar anymore. Reason for his lower level is because he abandoned Nefeshti, so there's a reason more that he shouldn't have a self-progressing weapon.