|
I was bored at work tonight and after reading a post on how TWF rogues are hard to pull off I decided to see if a TWF barbarian is viable. Why? First, because I could and secondly, greater beast totem gives pounce, so full attacks pretty much all the time. It's probably not anything I would play with from level 1 since it takes a LONG time to come together though.
Using 20 point buy
Half-Orc Barbarian 11/Fighter (weapon master) 3
16, 17(+2 stat boost at 1 went here), 16, 7, 11, 7
Stats at lvl 14- 23(+1 at 4, 8, 12, +4 belt), 17, 16, 7, 11, 7
1- Exotic Weapon Prof (either falcata or katana)
2- Lesser Beast Totem
3- Weapon Focus (whatever you have EWP in)
4- Superstitious
5- TWF
6- Beast Totem
7- ITWF
8- Reckless Abandon
9- Double Slice
10- Greater Beast Totem
11- Raging Vitality
12- Ftr1 Power Attack
13- Ftr2 Improved Crit(ftr bonus), Raging Brutality
14- Weapon training
Assuming 2 +2 furious whatever weapon you went with, a +4 str belt and gloves of dueling, always using power attack and reckless abandon (and that my math is correct), that should give you a main hand attack of +23/+18/+13 at 1d8+21/17-20x3 (or 15-20x2 with the katana) and +23/+18 1d8+18/17-20x3(15-20x2 katana). The damage goes up by 7 when you use Raging Brutality.
Thoughts? Is my math horribly screwed up?
I don't think I'd get as many attacks with the natural weapons and my threat range wouldn't be nearly as high.
You can go the unarmed strike route and combine it with your natural attacks, if you want. Your threat range will be terrible and DR will be a pain, but three extra attacks all increased with an amulet of mighty fists might be worth it. Additionally, it will open the door for Dragon Ferocity and an extra 1/2 strength damage per hit. I have no idea if it works out better in terms of DPR, but it is another option.
Anyway, your math seems accurate. Pouncing TWF Barbarians are awesome. I would probably go with wakizashi instead of katana, though. Katanas are really just +1 average damage for -2 attack, which I wouldn't think would be worth it with the giant piles of strength and power attack damage you are already bringing to the table. Better to get an extra hit or confirm an extra critical on occasion.
|
|
Anyway, your math seems accurate. Pouncing TWF Barbarians are awesome. I would probably go with wakizashi instead of katana, though. Katanas are really just +1 average damage for -2 attack, which I wouldn't think would be worth it with the giant piles of strength and power attack damage you are already bringing to the table. Better to get an extra hit or confirm an extra critical on occasion.
I forgot about the wakizashi. Though if you're going to go that route, you could save yourself a feat and just use a scimitar.
I forgot about the wakizashi. Though if you're going to go that route, you could save yourself a feat and just use a scimitar.
Scimitar would have the same problem of getting a -4 instead of -2 for TWF. You could wield Kukris at -2 without a feat, though.
I'd go with:
Half-Orc Barbarian 14
17 Str (+2 race), 16 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 8 Cha
Toothy alternate racial trait (1d4 bite)
Bbn 1- Two-Weapon Fighting; primary melee weapon is orc double axe (martial weapon for half-orcs)
Bbn 2- Rage Power (Lesser Beast Totem)
Bbn 3- Power Attack
Bbn 4- +1 Str; Rage Power (Guarded Life)
Bbn 5- Double Slice
Bbn 6- Rage Power (Beast Totem)
Bbn 7- Iron Will
Bbn 8- +1 Dex; Rage Power (Unexpected Strike)
Bbn 9- Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Bbn 10- Rage Power (Greater Beast Totem)
Bbn 11- Two-Weapon Rend
Bbn 12- +1 Str; Rage Power (Powerful Blow)
Bbn 13- Raging Brutality
Bbn 14- Rage Power (Bleeding Blow)
You start out with 3 attacks on a full-attack action at 1st level and can use the orc double axe as a two-handed weapon for a single attack without needing to drop your "off-hand" weapon. Power Attack, Double Slice, Two-Weapon Rend, Powerful Blow, Raging Brutality, and Bleeding Blow all increase your damage. Guarded Life, Beast Totem, and Iron Will increase your toughness (especially with the invulnerable rager archetype).
If you want to go the "raging two-weapon blender route," I'd recommend:
Human Barbarian (Titan Mauler) 2/Fighter (Two-Weapon Warrior) 12
14 Str, 18 Dex (+2 race), 14 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 10 Cha
Bbn 1- Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Curve Blade), Weapon Finesse (for when you're not raging)
Bbn 2- Rage Power (Quick Reflexes); with Jotun Grip, you can wield an elven curve blade as a one-handed weapon
Ftr 1- Quick Draw, Two-Weapon Fighting
Ftr 2- +1 Str; Power Attack
Ftr 3- Cleave
Ftr 4- Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Ftr 5- Cleaving Finish
Ftr 6- +1 Str; Improved Critical (Elven Curve Blade)
Ftr 7- Critical Focus
Ftr 8- Combat Reflexes
Ftr 9- Two-Weapon Rend
Ftr 10- +1 Dex; Bleeding Critical
Ftr 11- Raging Brutality; with Improved Balance, you can wield two elven curve blades at -4/-4, instead of -6/-6, since you can count one as light
Ftr 12- Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Note that the main focus of this character is gaining as many attacks as possible with a high critical-range weapon. The Twin Blades class feature for the two-weapon warrior archetype helps mitigate the -2 penalty for wielding a two-handed weapon in one hand with Jotun Grip.
To your last question, it all depends... and some creatures are crit immune anyways.
THere is a Google Spreadsheet linked in the DPR Olympics thread, that you can enter a target AC for CR appropriate to your level, and your attack and dmg stats (incl. crits), and it can figure out the DPR, including crits.
I have a question about the Titan Mauler, since i don´t have UC: does it actually say you count as one size larger? i´m not sure that without that wording (i.e. just reducing penalties/allowing to use larger sized creatures´ weapons) you could actually use normal sized weapons as a different weapon category (i.e. as if you were larger)...
At higher level you list being able to use them as -4/-4 because one counts as light... If that were the case, wouldn´t it be -2/-2?
If the above Titan Mauler approach DOES in fact let you use normal sized weapons as a weapon category ´lighter´, that is probably the optimal approach... Though even more optimal would be something like 2WF´ing with Falcatas or Scimitars...
The nice thing about Double-Ax (which you get for free as a Half-Orc, though it is less-optimized than a Double Sword, crit-range-wise), is that it uses both hands so you can get 2-Handed STR bonus (AT LEAST on single attacks/cleaves/AoO´s/etc, and by RAW also on the main-hand of 2WF though I doubt that is the intent) without needing to juggle anything. Using a 2-Handed weapon and Armor Spikes (which requires a free arm per Paizo/SKR, so you need to ´juggle´ grips and decide which weapon you are threatening with for AoO purposes off-your-turn) is another option, though Armor Spikes aren´t the most optimized weapon. Improved Unarmed Strike is another option, and doesn´t require juggling if you use knees, kicks, etc.
I would consider not taking Imp 2WF or Greater 2WF, though taking 2 Weapon Rend is a good idea, and possibly Double Slice. Taking all those is just focusing TOO MUCH on Full Attack damage IMHO, and all of the attacks are at lower attack bonuses... Not to mention the DEX pre-reqs. Instead of those, you can take alot more defensive or ´utility´ Feats (unique abilities not just Full Attack Damage), and if you want more attacks, I would recommmend instead getting Natural Attacks like Bites, Claws, Gore, etc, which will be 2ndary weapons at -5/-7 (2WF) in combo with Full Attacks, but they don´t have DEX pre-reqs, and the means to get them usually come with other benefits (Grapple bonus) or are a pre-req to other better stuff (Beast Totem Pounce). You can also apply Natural Weapon-unique buffs to them like Lockjaw (i.e. Grab mixed into your Full Attacks/AoO´s). Those won´t have as good as crit specs as a real weapon, but the 2ndary/3iary 2WF attacks are alot less likely to crit+confirm vs. tough targets, and for non-tough targets, you don´t really need multiple crits in your Full Attack to obliterate them anyways, so 2ndary natural attacks do the job as good as Imp/Grt 2WF attacks.
FYI, I compared a 2-Hander Barb1/FighterX build to a similar but 2WF-ing Double Sword build (pre APG, just Core), both of which seemed to be the highest Full Attack DPR (Core, pre-APG) for ´melee fighter types´. If I recall correctly, the 2WF did MARGINALLY more damage (<5%?) but ALL their Feats were totally dedicated to 2WF/damage, while the other build had 3-4 bonus Feats to play around with... WHich could be more damage stuff (I probably forget even some Core damage boosts like the Swift-action Attack/Damage boost Rage Powers), unique combat abilities (offense/defense), or other stuff like Scent, etc. All of the latter are much more valuable to me than squeezing out 5% more damage from a build that already does good damage.
