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I have a simple question. I am horrible at pricing magic items. I am trying to figure out if it goes against the rules to Create for instance a Ring with Continous Mage armor and Ring of Continous Shield?. Now I have tried to follow the rules in back of book and the price I keep coming up with is Base price 4000gp (spell level 1 x caster level 1 x 2000)x2 for the Shield and 2000gp for the Mage armor since its duration is hours there is no added multiplier. (x4 to price for rounds/level, x2 for minutes/level, x1.5 for 10minutes/level and half price for effects last 24hours or more). I also thought about combineing both onto one ring since they are similar effects that add ac, so one ring would have price 5500 (4000 for first effect and 75% for second effect or 1500). Is my math correct? or should I consider command word effect? help is needed, I want to get this right and I hate the magic item creation.
Your math may be correct, but your method isn't. The guidelines for custom magic item pricing are just that- guidelines. Any time they create something that seems cheaper than an equivalently-powered item, then you need to change the price to more closely match the equivalently-powered item. Giving permanent spell effects (or at-will spell effects), ESPECIALLY for spells that give bonuses to statistics, is NEVER a good idea by those guidelines, for multiple reasons. Example: Bracers of Armor +4 are a magic item staple, and they cost 16,000 gp (bonus squared x 1000). An item that casts Mage Armor at will is, for all intents and purposes, the exact same thing- so therefore, any method that prices less than 16,000 should not be used, because static bonuses have their own formulas. Same (except some would say even moreso) for an item of Shield at will- even doubly so for an item that does both. An item that gives Mage Armor and Shield both at will gives effectively a +8 armor bonus to AC, which means it should be AT LEAST as expensive as Bracers of Armor +8. (In other words, 64,000 gp.)
In my opinion, if you don't know very much about pricing custom items, then either don't allow them, or only allow ones that you've designed yourself to be given to PCs (and don't allow them to be sold). The game is 1,000x simpler that way.
Its like mommawolf always said. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Your math may be correct, but your method isn't. The guidelines for custom magic item pricing are just that- guidelines. Any time they create something that seems cheaper than an equivalently-powered item, then you need to change the price to more closely match the equivalently-powered item. Giving permanent spell effects (or at-will spell effects), ESPECIALLY for spells that give bonuses to statistics, is NEVER a good idea by those guidelines, for multiple reasons. Example: Bracers of Armor +4 are a magic item staple, and they cost 16,000 gp (bonus squared x 1000). An item that casts Mage Armor at will is, for all intents and purposes, the exact same thing- so therefore, any method that prices less than 16,000 should not be used, because static bonuses have their own formulas. Same (except some would say even moreso) for an item of Shield at will- even doubly so for an item that does both. An item that gives Mage Armor and Shield both at will gives effectively a +8 armor bonus to AC, which means it should be AT LEAST as expensive as Bracers of Armor +8. (In other words, 64,000 gp.)
In my opinion, if you don't know very much about pricing custom items, then either don't allow them, or only allow ones that you've designed yourself to be given to PCs (and don't allow them to be sold). The game is 1,000x simpler that way.
Ok so what would you see as a price for say this item but charges per day.. say 3 charges per day.. of course per spell.. so 3 charges shield and 3 charges mage armor... would something like this be under same rules... since math wise it would be around 3000gp. Or is this still doing something that while within rules is considered "overpowered".. i mean I can get 2 wands with 50charges each and do same thing..and for half the cost..
First off, the price for a continuous Ring of Mage Shield should be 32000, as it is an AC (deflection) bonus, not a continuous spell effect. The continuous Ring of Shielding should be at least 10,000 because it provides a shield bonus to AC as well as stopping Magic Missiles cold. As for combining them into one ring with 3 charges each, that would be 19,200 for the Mage Armor, plus 6,000 for the Shield, plus another 3,000 for an additional (similar) effect on an existing item, for a grand total cost of 28,200 gp, slightly cheaper than a Ring of Protection +4.
First off, the price for a continuous Ring of Mage Shield should be 32000, as it is an AC (deflection) bonus, not a continuous spell effect. The continuous Ring of Shielding should be at least 10,000 because it provides a shield bonus to AC as well as stopping Magic Missiles cold. As for combining them into one ring with 3 charges each, that would be 19,200 for the Mage Armor, plus 6,000 for the Shield, plus another 3,000 for an additional (similar) effect on an existing item, for a grand total cost of 28,200 gp, slightly cheaper than a Ring of Protection +4.
still seems rather dumb math.. since wands are so cheap.. for same effects.. and more uses.. and even if they run out of charges. I can get new wands or craft my own even cheaper... this is the problem with magic items.... why cant we just go back to 2nd edition..
Wands may be cheaper, but only someone with the spell on their spell list can use them easily, and even with UMD, it takes a pretty good roll to activate at low levels. Whereas a ring can be worn by anybody, always works, and doesn't need to be activated (unless it has charges, which just requires speaking the right word or phrase to do so).
Wands may be cheaper, but only someone with the spell on their spell list can use them easily, and even with UMD, it takes a pretty good roll to activate at low levels. Whereas a ring can be worn by anybody, always works, and doesn't need to be activated (unless it has charges, which just requires speaking the right word or phrase to do so).
correct for low levels it is harder.. but this is for a wizard and at level 6 or 7.. so the issue is trying to find the most cost effective way. Personally I have always felt wands were to easy to use. That is why I was looking at a magic item other than wand. But after seeing all the posts on the idea of using the craft magic items and it working differently for those 2 spells, (even though truthfully its way to gray, I mean you could make almost any other spell command word and not change cost) I think wands will be the best way to go. Its cheaper and I get same effect.
Wands may be cheaper, but only someone with the spell on their spell list can use them easily, and even with UMD, it takes a pretty good roll to activate at low levels. Whereas a ring can be worn by anybody, always works, and doesn't need to be activated (unless it has charges, which just requires speaking the right word or phrase to do so).
Quite correct, just wanted to point out that an item can be word activated and have unlimited uses/day. A ring of invisibility, for example is both.
Wands may be cheaper, but only someone with the spell on their spell list can use them easily, and even with UMD, it takes a pretty good roll to activate at low levels. Whereas a ring can be worn by anybody, always works, and doesn't need to be activated (unless it has charges, which just requires speaking the right word or phrase to do so).Quite correct, just wanted to point out that an item can be word activated and have unlimited uses/day. A ring of invisibility, for example is both.
correct and the price on that ring follows the magic item creation. I just dont see why mage armor or shield should be treated different. But I dont care anymore, after posting I have decided I will go with wands, no point in trying to come up with a magic item since it appears its a random choice on which spells somehow are different, even though they are not. regardless of rules in the book.
correct and the price on that ring follows the magic item creation. I just dont see why mage armor or shield should be treated different. But I dont care anymore, after posting I have decided I will go with wands, no point in trying to come up with a magic item since it appears its a random choice on which spells somehow are different, even though they are not. regardless of rules in the book.
Because the spell mage armor gives you a +4 to ac. So a magic item that confers that benefit would use the "Armor bonus" column in the table. You use the "spell effect" part of the table for when you are conferring an ability a spell has that isn't on the table already.
Otherwise the formula for an unlimited use/day mage armor would be 1800
Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp
1*1*1800
That doesn't seem a little cheap to you? Bracers of Armor +4 do the same thing and cost 16000. (and these things are made by the book: Bonus squared x 1,000 gp=16*1000).
I would argue that you would use the "enhancemet" bonus instead of "deflection" amounts mostly because that's what bracers of armor use. But that's where item creation is just as much an art.
I should point out that the ring of invisibility doesn't follow item creation rules completely. For that, the formula would be:
Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp
2*3*1800=10800.
It's priced at nearly double that because the spell effect is so powerful.
The formulas are a starting point. As I said, making custom magic items is an art more than a strict adherence to formula.
EDIT: I spoke only of mage armor. I would use the same formula for shield, but add 2700 for the immunity to magic missiles. (spell effect 1*1*1800 then multiply by 1.5 because you are also getting an ac bonus that works with it.) for a total of 18700
For both together:
I'm fine with
AC (Armor +4)= 16*1000=16000
AC (Shield =4 stacking with another bonus)= 16*1000*1.5=24000
immunity to magic missiles (stacking with other bonuses)= 1*1*1800*1.5=2700
Total price tag: 42700
I used the deflection bonus for the ring of mage armor above because it is effective against incorporeal creatures, and the closest to that is deflection (since there is no 'force effect' armor enhancement listed). I used the 'other enhancement' for the ring of Shield because the spell itself will stop magic missiles, which is a bit more than normal enhancement can do.
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For the pricing of an item working like the Shield spell, feel free to look at this thread.
Shield effect, in the previous link, is proposed as an effect you can obtain in different power levels, like all other AC enhancement items.
So, to resume :
(Price of Brooch of Shielding) + ((Price of a Ring of protection + 500)bonus squared)
= 2500 + 2500xbonus².
+1 Bonus : 5000
+2 Bonus : 12500
+3 Bonus : 25000
+4 Bonus : 42500
+4 permanent Shield effect + immunity to magic missile : 42500.
+4 Armor is the cheapest enhancement. 16000 and add 50% to the price since it is a secondary effect = 24000.
Your +4 Armor +4 Shield item would cost 42500 + 24000 = 64 500 GP with this pricing.
A +8 Armor Bracers would cost 64000, so 500 GP for MM immunity is maybe a bit too low of a price, I would suggest going to 66k total.