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Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex): At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces flurry of blows.
So is this to intend that only the extra maneuvers can be ones that normally require a standard action, as opposed to an attack action?
For example, I can make a maneuver master who can do trip/trip or disarm/grapple (get those pesky light weapons out of their hand first) but can't do grapple/grapple (for the extra damage or a pin).
At 15th level, now I can do one attack action and three standard action maneuvers, but it's too much to do a standard action maneuver first? And am I required to do my attack action maneuver first (so, disarm/grapple instead of grapple then disarm)? Perhaps the specific language is to prevent first-level characters from grappling and pinning an opponent in one round, but is that really so bad? I suppose you give him a few lengths of rope and he hops about the battlefield cattle-rustling and hog-tying the low-level mooks once per two rounds. Again, is this so bad?
So is this to intend that only the extra maneuvers can be ones that normally require a standard action, as opposed to an attack action?
For example, I can make a maneuver master who can do trip/trip or disarm/grapple (get those pesky light weapons out of their hand first) but can't do grapple/grapple (for the extra damage or a pin).
Yes, your thoughts seem to be correct.
At 15th level, now I can do one attack action and three standard action maneuvers, but it's too much to do a standard action maneuver first? And am I required to do my attack action maneuver first (so, disarm/grapple instead of grapple then disarm)? Perhaps the specific language is to prevent first-level characters from grappling and pinning an opponent in one round, but is that really so bad? I suppose you give him a few lengths of rope and he hops about the battlefield cattle-rustling and hog-tying the low-level mooks once per two rounds. Again, is this so bad?
I'm not seeing why you'd have to do attacks before the grapples. I think you can mix up the order in any way you see fit.
However, this has to be a part of the *full attack* action so a level 1 character would never grapple twice. They'd attack and grapple or grapple and attack. This is because grapple is normally a standard action and if you full attack.. well you don't have a standard action to make another grapple check.
Has any part of this been clarified? Whether the monk's attacks take any penalty, whether he has to make the attacks with monk weapons, whether we can use normal TWF along with his flurry, etc.?
Has any part of this been clarified? Whether the monk's attacks take any penalty
The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.
whether he has to make the attacks with monk weapons
Unclear.
whether we can use normal TWF along with his flurry, etc.?
Yes, you can do this - as TWF is a full attack action.
It's ALL unclear.
All of the special rules for flurrying -- about strength bonus, weapon iteratives, specific weapon use, penalties, etc -- were stripped from this archetype ability.
We are left wondering which of those rules, if any, still apply.
By RAW, it would appear that my flurrying maneuver master can full attack with a greatsword (assuming I spend a feat on proficiency) at no penalty and x1.5 Str, but that the attacks will be based on 3/4 BAB progression. Then on top of that he can grapple at -2.
It's ALL unclear.
Yes, the rules get more nebulous with each release.
By RAW, it would appear that my flurrying maneuver master can full attack with a greatsword (assuming I spend a feat on proficiency) at no penalty and x1.5 Str, but that the attacks will be based on 3/4 BAB progression. Then on top of that he can grapple at -2.
Yes, although they'd take another -4 for not having two hands free to grapple.
I guess on my initial reading, I looked at it as a normal monk can flurry punches for damage, whereas this archetype flurries CMB checks for maneuvers. This doesn't seem to be the case. Instead, it can punch once for damage at it's standard unarmed attack bonus, then can perform any combat maneuver at a different BAB, with a -2 penalty. Of course, I'm free to perform a combat maneuver like trip on my first attack at my normal CMB, then a bonus one at the full BAB-2, which is actually better than a normal monk at level 1 flurrying blows."
Wouldn't it just be simpler to say the following?
At first level, a maneuver master can attempt two combat maneuvers of any kind as a full-round action, suffering a -2 penalty to both. At level 8, he can make three maneuvers with a -5 penalty to all, and do four at level 15 with -12 (ouch!) penalties to all of them. The maneuver master uses his full monk levels to determine his BAB for these checks.
Is this so unbalancing?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I think im clear on how the Maneuver Master and flurry of Maneuvers work according to most of the responses on the message boards but just to make sure could someone just verify if this is correct?
A) at 1st level a MM can flurry with a (-2) to each attack i.e. -1/-1
and do an additional combat maneuver at a (-2) penalty in the same round as well. that is a total of (3) attacks.
No. As LovesTha pointed out, FoM replaces FoB. You only get to do what FoM actually says you get to do, not that plus FoM. So, as stated in the FoM rules, you get to make a maneuver in addition to your regular attack(s) when you take the full-attack action. So unless you're using Two-Weapon Fighting, you get (at level 1) one attack and one maneuver.
Note that the -2 (and the improved BAB) only applies to the bonus maneuver, not the rest of your attacks.
B) or he can perform a combination of the (3) attacks using either melee and/or a CM but still giving him a total of (3) attacks.
Anyone can replace a melee attack with a disarm, sunder or trip maneuver. Also keep in mind that the bonus maneuver is specified as having to be just that - a maneuver. So a level 1 maneuver master has the following options on a full attack:
Attack/maneuverDisarm/maneuver
Trip/maneuver
Sunder/maneuver
The bonus spot cannot be filled with a regular attack, and the the regular attack spot cannot be filled with a maneuver other than disarm/sunder/trip.
C) or is it he can make either (2) melee attacks or (2) CM's or a combination of either. which is a total of (2) attacks per round.
See above.