Combat Patrol detail questions


Rules Questions


1. Can I move before AND after an Attack of Opportunity granted by Combat Patrol, or only before the attack?


2. What happens if I set up a Combat Patrol, an enemy charges me, thereby provoking an AoO from me, and I move to the side of him to make my AoO, so I no longer are in the direction where I was when he started his charge; is his charge wasted? Does he have to continue moving towards where I was when he started his charge?


Zen79 wrote:

1. Can I move before AND after an Attack of Opportunity granted by Combat Patrol, or only before the attack?

You can move as a part of the attack. After the attack is made you stop moving. If someone provokes again in your patrol area then you may move towards them and attack again.

Zen79 wrote:
2. What happens if I set up a Combat Patrol, an enemy charges me, thereby provoking an AoO from me, and I move to the side of him to make my AoO, so I no longer are in the direction where I was when he started his charge; is his charge wasted? Does he have to continue moving towards where I was when he started his charge?

His charge is wasted unless you have entered into Melee range for the charger, then he can complete his attack. The text on charge states that you stop and attack as soon as you are able to complete the attack.

He can choose to stop his charging movement if you're not there anymore.


3. In older threads about Combat Patrol, I read the opinion that you never provoke more than one AoO by moving, even if moving out of multiple threatened squares of the same enemy. Is this correct? I couldn't find anything in the rules that would support this, I'm thinking you CAN provoke multiple AoO from a single enemy by moving.

Example: an enlarged fighter with a polearm sets up a combat patrol. An enemy moves towards him. When the enemy leaves the outermost square of the combat patrol, he provokes an AoO. The fighter moves forwards and attacks. The enemy now moves on to get adjacent to the fighter; doing so, he leaves a threatened square of the fighter. Does he provoke a 2nd AoO?


Zen79 wrote:
3. In older threads about Combat Patrol, I read the opinion that you never provoke more than one AoO by moving, even if moving out of multiple threatened squares of the same enemy.

This is correct, let me see if I can find the rule for you.

EDIT:

Pathfinder Core Rules: Combat Section: Attacks of Opportunity wrote:


Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity:
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.


Stynkk wrote:
Zen79 wrote:

1. Can I move before AND after an Attack of Opportunity granted by Combat Patrol, or only before the attack?

You can move as a part of the attack. After the attack is made you stop moving. If someone provokes again in your patrol area then you may move towards them and attack again.

This seems to be the most likely interpretation, but I'm not 100% convinced. There are after all other exceptions to the rule that you don't move after an attack, for example spring attack, dimensional dervish, or Dervish Dancer. So the question remains, is Combat Patrol another exception? Probably not, because it should explicitly say so if that was the intent, but still, there is a chance that that was RAI.

Stynkk wrote:
Zen79 wrote:
2. What happens if I set up a Combat Patrol, an enemy charges me, thereby provoking an AoO from me, and I move to the side of him to make my AoO, so I no longer are in the direction where I was when he started his charge; is his charge wasted? Does he have to continue moving towards where I was when he started his charge?

His charge is wasted unless you have entered into Melee range for the charger, then he can complete his attack. The text on charge states that you stop and attack as soon as you are able to complete the attack.

He can choose to stop his charging movement if you're not there anymore.

Yes, that would also have been my ruling.

So you can foil a charge attempt if you have more reach than the enemy and move to his side.


Stynkk wrote:
Zen79 wrote:
3. In older threads about Combat Patrol, I read the opinion that you never provoke more than one AoO by moving, even if moving out of multiple threatened squares of the same enemy.

This is correct, let me see if I can find the rule for you.

EDIT:

Pathfinder Core Rules: Combat Section: Attacks of Opportunity wrote:


Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity:
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

Ah yes, thank you. I didn't notice that.

Grand Lodge

Zen79 wrote:
2. What happens if I set up a Combat Patrol, an enemy charges me, thereby provoking an AoO from me, and I move to the side of him to make my AoO, so I no longer are in the direction where I was when he started his charge; is his charge wasted? Does he have to continue moving towards where I was when he started his charge?

As long as he has moved more than 10 feet (qualifying as a charge), he can make his charge attack, since he is now in the closest square from which he can attack you. If he can't reach you, he can continue his charge directly towards you. Pathfinder no longer has any language that requires his charge path to be a straight line.


Starglim wrote:
Zen79 wrote:
2. What happens if I set up a Combat Patrol, an enemy charges me, thereby provoking an AoO from me, and I move to the side of him to make my AoO, so I no longer are in the direction where I was when he started his charge; is his charge wasted? Does he have to continue moving towards where I was when he started his charge?
As long as he has moved more than 10 feet (qualifying as a charge), he can make his charge attack, since he is now in the closest square from which he can attack you. If he can't reach you, he can continue his charge directly towards you. Pathfinder no longer has any language that requires his charge path to be a straight line.

The charge rules are getting a little strange in this situation.

I think you are correct as far as RAW is concerned, but what it means is:

You CANNOT change your direction during a charge to avoid an obstacle between you and your target, but you CAN change your direction during a charge when your target changes its position.

Feels somehow wrong to me.


Zen79 wrote:

1. Can I move before AND after an Attack of Opportunity granted by Combat Patrol, or only before the attack?

Okay for this and other questions, let's start with the benefits of the feat:

Quote:
As a full-round action, you may set up a combat patrol, increasing your threatened area by 5 feet for every 5 points of your base attack bonus. Until the beginning of your next turn, you may make attacks of opportunity against any opponent in this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks, provided your total movement before your next turn does not exceed your speed. Any movement you make provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

You may move as part of these attacks. It does not specify before or after and you can thus do both.. but you are limited by your movement so you have to keep track of that. Likewise you will provoke for your movement as normal.

-James


Starglim has it right - it seems if you move the charger can change his/her trajectory to match yours. Better hope to put some obstacles in the way.

james maissen wrote:

You may move as part of these attacks. It does not specify before or after and you can thus do both.. but you are limited by your movement so you have to keep track of that. Likewise you will provoke for your movement as normal.

-James

James, you're certain of your reading? Once the attack is complete can you still be considered to move as "part of the attack"?


Stynkk wrote:


James, you're certain of your reading? Once the attack is complete can you still be considered to move as "part of the attack"?

I do believe so.

In fact I see no difference in the movement before the attack or after it when you view it that way.

You are granted the AOO even outside of your normal threatened area, and instead of just being empowered to make the attack you can also move. There is no stipulation that you can only move before the attack.

-James

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