I have been haphazardly working on a campaign world I intend to use pathfinder with, and I figured I'd toss this out and see what people think are good solutions;
Ultimately the campaign world, like many, features a 'noble-class'. However, this particular noble class, mirroring nobility in Poland, for example, has a particular set of state-granted privileges. Some of these are only broadly applicable to 'adventuring types', such as the right to own Estates, or the right to speak in the Sejm(the realms quasi-sorta-parliament). Others have very great applicability; the right to have an armed retinue, the right to only be detained under writ. All these rights are hereditary, regardless of a nobles actual title(i.e. the fifth son of Baron Eurkel is still a noble in terms of how the state treats him and he can be expected to be treated by others, even if he has vastly less wealth than even an average craftsmen).
So my question is; how do I handle this from a character point of view.
The First way, obviously, is fiat. Somebody wants to play a noble... they're a noble. They get the rights and so forth, etc. etc.
I had thought about making 'Born Noble' a character trait. This seems to be the best solution; forcing a slight player investiture in the idea, and granting concrete campaign benefits. It's probably what I'll end up going with; however, it does have a slight feeling of being a very great advantage in comparison to other traits.
So what other options, suggestions or thoughts do people have.
I guess you have a number of options:
What you go with depends on how beneficial a noble title will be in your campaign. If it will hardly if ever really come up, or comes up more or less regularly but won't be more than a story tool, you can make it relatively easy and "cheap" for players to play nobles.
If, on the other hand, being a noble will have huge benefits all the time, then you might make it cost a lot or ban it outright.
If it's somewhere in between, you use a less severe method.
And don't forget that you don't have to make this all about advantages. Noblesse oblige! Possible obligations a noble might face include the requirement to provide levies to the realm's armies or even take to the field yourself when the realm is threatened. You might also be set up with some ugly old noble of another house in an arranged marriage that is supposed to bring stability to the kingdom.
There are a bunch of traits here that deal with nobility. Maybe get some inspiration from them?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/traits-db
This works, and it is effectively a trait you're talking about.
Previous campaign I ran, I had everyone at character creation roll a die to see what social class the character came from, with nobility and even high nobility at the upper end of the scale. The advantages of being from a noble family were counterbalanced by having conniving relatives willing to bump you off to inherit your title, old family feuds, curses and so on. The shadow wizard who came from a family of turnip farmers (who discovered his book of magic by breaking into an ancient wizard's burial mound while digging a new cess pit) didn't have to deal with any of these troubles.
This works, and it is effectively a trait you're talking about.
Previous campaign I ran, I had everyone at character creation roll a die to see what social class the character came from, with nobility and even high nobility at the upper end of the scale. The advantages of being from a noble family were counterbalanced by having conniving relatives willing to bump you off to inherit your title, old family feuds, curses and so on. The shadow wizard who came from a family of turnip farmers (who discovered his book of magic by breaking into an ancient wizard's burial mound while digging a new cess pit) didn't have to deal with any of these troubles.
Care to share your table for that die roll? :D Sounds awesome.
Care to share your table for that die roll? :D Sounds awesome.This works, and it is effectively a trait you're talking about.
Previous campaign I ran, I had everyone at character creation roll a die to see what social class the character came from, with nobility and even high nobility at the upper end of the scale. The advantages of being from a noble family were counterbalanced by having conniving relatives willing to bump you off to inherit your title, old family feuds, curses and so on. The shadow wizard who came from a family of turnip farmers (who discovered his book of magic by breaking into an ancient wizard's burial mound while digging a new cess pit) didn't have to deal with any of these troubles.
From p. 32 of THE COMPLEAT ARDUIN -- BOOK I: THE RULES, Table 9 "Legacy"
Many races are listed on the table, but for humans, it's as follows:
Roll %
1-10 Free Holder
11-60 Commoner
61-75 Tenant
76-83 Man at Arms
84-87 Craftsman
88-90 Merchant
91-93 Gentry
94-96 Lesser Noble
97-98 Noble
99 Distant Royalty
100 Close Royalty
There are brief explanations of all of these on p.33 but they're pretty self explanatory. It's basically what your parents did and are still doing.
This is from the 1993 edition of Arduin. I certainly wouldn't import everything from that into a Pathfinder game, but the social status and legacy table is fun and works well for generating character backgrounds and plots.
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The First way, obviously, is fiat. Somebody wants to play a noble... they're a noble. They get the rights and so forth, etc. etc.
I had thought about making 'Born Noble' a character trait. This seems to be the best solution; forcing a slight player investiture in the idea, and granting concrete campaign benefits. It's probably what I'll end up going with; however, it does have a slight feeling of being a very great advantage in comparison to other traits.
So what other options, suggestions or thoughts do people have.
I'd scale it.
You want to be the twelth son of baron whathisname in the land of 'off-the-map somewhere', with all the fat-stack-of-jack that's worth, you can just write it on your sheet and it will be about as relevant as your hair color.
You want some *minor* bonuses, like +1 diplomacy and knowledge-nobility rolls in your home kingdom and knowledge-nobility as a class skill, that's probably a trait.
Larger bonuses, like the stuff that Green Ronin's Noble class provided (right to stay for free in the houses of other nobles while travelling) would probably be a feat.
Thanks for the responses. Most cover what I pretty much expected. I imagine the difficulty for me is two-fold, the first is that in my campaign, like in Poland in the 16th century, 'nobility' is a distinct social class, both in law and in 'practice'. Sort of like 'citizen' is now. Ultimately most of the benefits are pretty abstract(i.e. by the time players are worrying about owning land they'd most likely be able to get themeselves into the noble class one way or another), but some do have pretty centrla benefits(the ability to not be arrested accept by Writ and to have a legal armed retinue is pretty big.) So mostly I just worried about that status, not 'titles' of any kind(i.e. there are plenty of people walking around who are nobles without being Barons, Dukes or what-ever)
The question ultimately, I suppose is how to stack the benefits and potential benefits against other mechanical advantages. Is making some-one give up a feat for it worth it. This has always been a bit of a problem in D&D. I thought briefly about constructing a seperate social mechanic of some kind, but I think that's putting too much effort into something that will come into campaigns only briefly.
Ultimately my society has the following social divisions;
-The Royal Family
-The Upper Nobility(The Magnates, equivalent to Dukes more or less, the movers and shakers)
-The Middle Nobility(Includes the vast majority of the Nobility, the Counts and Barons, their extended families)
-The 'Gentry' or Petty Nobility(People who possess the rights of nobility but don't own land, or people like Knights, who are considered part of the nobility but don't pass on those rights hereditarily)
-Free Persons(A Broad class encompassing everyone from super-Wealthy Merchants, to Craftsmen, to the Free Farmer, to the City-Dwelling River-Mucker)
-Serfs(The Peasantry, those bonded to a domain or Manse through an oath of bondage).
Ultimately though the Nobility-Free Person-Serf lines are the clearest. No PC is gong to be a Serf pretty much by definition, though I suppose some traits could deal with that.
So I'll ultimately figure it out I suppose, though as I said, I'm leaning towards a Trait to be born part of the noble-class period, perhaps make other elements feats.
Is there legal distinction between Upper, Middle and Petty Nobility of yours or is that just distinction made by wealth and influence? (like in case of Polish Nobility)
Is there legal distinction between Upper, Middle and Petty Nobility of yours or is that just distinction made by wealth and influence? (like in case of Polish Nobility)
Short version; no. The legal privileges of 'nobility' are universal to the class itself. The seperations are more a social distinction, though some have legal weight or the weight of tradition behind them(i.e. The Magnates, who own the majority of the countries land, obviously have, because of economics and history, more broad power than the petty nobility, even if both have the same rights under the law).
Basically it mirrors Polish/Lithuanian Nobility pretty closely, but with a slightly more powerful central authority in the personage of the royal family.
So far I've only seen discussion over the perks that come with nobility. Don't forget about the responsibilities that they have to the state, their people and their own lord. Unless they are the king (in which case they had a great deal of responsibility) then they are a vassal to someone.
Princess of a royal house? Forget about romancing whomever you like, you'll end up having an arranged marriage. Firstborn son of a duke? When the old man buys it, you end up having to run things.
Furthermore, noble characters can't just go associating with anyone and skirting the fringes of the law. It debases the nobility in the eyes of the common folk and debases them in the eyes of the nobility. Such actions should bring them to the attention of their own lord. They will be held to a higher standard.
If you have a group who has a hard time playing with a paladin then you need to evaluate whether they'll be able to cope with having an actual noble in the party. If the players won't be able to handle it, then no amount of feats, traits, etc. will matter.
If the group is a good fit though, I see it as more an issue of how they spend their skills, feats, etc and pick their classes. A noble is going to be educated so having all their ranks in Acrobatics, Perception, and Stealth without a single point in a knowledge skill would trigger my BS sensor. ;)
Honestly, something like this is more art than science. I personally dislike charging feats for things that are essentially external to the character (i.e. Leadership) and should fall more in the realm of roleplaying.
With that said, there have been a few traits I've experimented with to model actual mechanical bonuses that could be associated with this. For instance, when it comes to costs that are essentially "fluff", (i.e. food, lodging), there's no harm in allowing them to stay at a nice hotel rather than a flophouse, for their personal retinue to join them at fine repasts with the local lord rather than in some dockside tavern, etc. It builds verisimilitude and helps to reinforce why the rest of the party needs to hold themselves to a higher standard and not act like thugs.
Here's a couple traits I once designed to help address this, although I personally just handwave such things in my own campaigns:
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Make it so that every social class has its own advantages and disadvantages.
Sure nobles probably can't get arrested, but they got enemies in rivaling families and jealous family members. Dropping your name to the wrong crowd might start a riot than inspire respect.
The higher nobility you are the more powerful your enemies get.
Also they might be pretty well known, so diguise checks or bluffs to hide their identity get a penalty.
Commoners on the other hand blend in way better with normal people, they're better at gathering information in the local taverns, might establish contacts to the underworld easier etc.
I just pulled those out of my sleeve just now, not really thinking about balance yet. Anyway, try to give each class comparable advantages/disadvantages. Or if you give them big advantages, also give them big disadvantages (and make sure they're real ones, not something abstract that will never come back to bite them - and make sure that it eventually will).
Then just let each player decide what social class they come from.