Is there an "overgod" in Golarion?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


Just wondering if, similar to Ao in the Forgotton Realms setting, there is a supreme entity to which all other gods answer. Looking through the Gods and Magic book, it seems that Torag would be the closest thing, but it seems to dwarf-specific.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Torag isn't an "uber-deity", he's in line with the other major gods.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Nope no over god, just a collection of gods.


Nope, though I`m sure it`s not for lack of trying on the part of Asmodeus...

Liberty's Edge

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The Overgod's name is James Jacobs.


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Oh YEAH... An all power being that controls what the gods do? Reshapes the worlds to his/her whims...

oh yes... the overgod is YOU!!!!

One of our players had an idea for a character that worshiped the great god 'DM.' Everyone would have thought he was nuts... and he was going to be the kind of character who knew he was in a game and his life was in the hands of some other being.. his fate decided by the roll of the dice...

It was a 'creative' idea... but as I LIKE the fourth wall, I'm not a fan of it being broken, so I'm kind of glad he never made it past the planning stages :)


Jeremiziah wrote:
The Overgod's name is James Jacobs.

'nuff said.

Grand Lodge

Some gods have particular functions, or places in the world, in which they are seldom challenged by the other major deities. Pharasma, Asmodeus and Rovagug come to mind. They're far from established and official overgods, though. Annoying little cults constantly nibble at their portfolios and alliances of other gods can put them in their place when it comes to a serious issue.

Several gods would like to be monotheistic, but objectively are a long way from succeeding.


I've always thought the gods were second to the Aeons (kina like, in Greek mythology, even the gods were second to the fates).


I think the problem with having an over-deity or supreme god in the in-game world is that it would raise the same questions that monotheism does in real life, but with a few strange twists due to Pathfinder cosmology and the alignment system.

If there is a supreme all-powerful god and he is good then why are evil things permitted to happen?

Or if the supreme all-powerful god is evil why are the good guys sometimes able to win?

And so on for Law and Chaos...

If this god is not all-powerful well then he/she/it would not be a supreme god or over-deity.

If the over-deity has left the world to its own devices or for whatever mysterious reasons refuses to interfere with the world then there might as well not be an over-deity at all except I suppose as some kind of backstory.

I suppose if the over-deity were True Neutral and refused to take sides in the conflict between Law/Chaos, Good/Evil that might work, but would't such an all-powerful Neutral deity use his/her/its power to enforce a kind of balance, and with such an enforced balance there goes your dramatic conflict in favor of a status quo. Unless of course this all-powerful True Neutral over-deity were satisfied with a kind of dynamic balance wherein over the long term no one side predominated, and so the gods of the various aligned outer planes would all be scrambling and competing for momentary advantages over each other (measured in a godly time scale of millennia) and/or might not realize that if any one side gains too much of an advantage for too long they will arouse the ire of the True Neutral over-deity. That possibility might make for an interesting story - but only once per campaign and probably only for Epic level play.

So all in all I don't see much use for an over-deity in the cosmology of a game world, raises too many unanswerable questions and except for that last thing can't really add anything to the plot of a campaign. But hey, that's just my opinion.


Thanks everyone.

Liberty's Edge

Taishaku wrote:
I think the problem with having an over-deity or supreme god in the in-game world is that it would raise the same questions that monotheism does in real life, but with a few strange twists due to Pathfinder cosmology and the alignment system.

Monotheism only appears to bring that problem up because all of the monotheistic religions we're familiar with claim that god is good. The over deity could potentially be neutral, unintelligent, or insensate. It could even be evil (and the way some DM's run their game, almost certainly is).

I generally think the answer to the question "Is there a god above all other gods in Golarion?" should be left to individuals to decide, much like the question is left to individuals to decide when were talking about this universe.

Shadow Lodge

The overgod's name is GM.


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The closest is Azathoth, at least within the Material Plane, as he is a universe-creator (his role is more ambiguous, admittedly, in the Pathfinder cosmology than in CoC, but as the nuclear chaos, it is his raison d'etre; he is the ultimate meaninglessness of the cosmos). But no god really answers to him, nor does he hand out instructions.

In other words, he is the dice.


I think that in some other thread James Jacobs said that there is no overgod in Golarion setting - and I think that he meant that there will never be one.

Jeff, in the same sense Yog-Sothoth could be perceived as an overdeity as he encompases all the time and space, so it was, it is and it will be, everywhere and nowhere.


There is an overdeity in Golarion, but she's decided to keep herself secret, even from James Jacobs, and thus has not been published. However, there are certain hints in the books that can be divined to find her name.


If there is an ubergod, then she/he/it must be the one and true god and all the other ones are false deities drawing praise and power away from the true god.


Ion Raven wrote:
If there is an ubergod, then she/he/it must be the one and true god and all the other ones are false deities drawing praise and power away from the true god.

If they can do this against his/her/its will then certainly it isn't real ubergod. So if It exists then they are worshipped with its (silent) approval).

And second point is that ubergod would have little need for praise or worship by mortals.


I'm glad there's no one like Ao.

When Nethys became omniscient do you think he became Yog-Sothoth?

Dark Archive

The first Book of the Damned has a thing about the origin of the gods and other spiritual beings; the Seal (I'm pretty sure it means like a seal on a letter, not a pinniped). It was a warm spot of light in the void of the outer sphere, and at one point, it disgorged motes. The motes swirled around, basking in it's glow. Then, an uncountable eon later, it disgorged a second batch, which were consumed by the first motes, which had grown in the interim. More motes were birthed, and not all of them were consumed, some surviving as lesser beings. and in this state before time, the first spiritual beings gained complexity. Fear and Predation, and Companionship and Thought, began to take shape.

And another uncountable eon later, the Motes had names of their own. The two greatest, from the first batch, were close, as brothers. One was called Ihys, and the other Asmodeus.
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The Seal is some sort of insensate, probably non-sentient power source. Sort of like a less tentacular, spiritual Azathoth, I suppose.

It's the closest thing to an overdiety you're going to find in-cannon, probably. It gives a source to all the spiritual entities that haven't come from the Abyss or the Maelstrom, since those are the other two big sources of reality (though the Maelstrom [and thus all of reality] might just be a cast-off fragment of the abyss. Or something. the Abyss certainly predated the Maelstrom.) Axis is apparently something that dropped in from a completely different reality, though. Maybe it was an accretion point for other planes?

But that's the outer sphere, not the material plane itself.


Bestiary 2 wrote:
All aeons are bound in a state they know as “the condition of all” or “monad,” a supreme oneness with all members of their race and the multiverse itself.


Rusty Shackleford wrote:

The first Book of the Damned has a thing about the origin of the gods and other spiritual beings; the Seal (I'm pretty sure it means like a seal on a letter, not a pinniped). It was a warm spot of light in the void of the outer sphere, and at one point, it disgorged motes. The motes swirled around, basking in it's glow. Then, an uncountable eon later, it disgorged a second batch, which were consumed by the first motes, which had grown in the interim. More motes were birthed, and not all of them were consumed, some surviving as lesser beings. and in this state before time, the first spiritual beings gained complexity. Fear and Predation, and Companionship and Thought, began to take shape.

And another uncountable eon later, the Motes had names of their own. The two greatest, from the first batch, were close, as brothers. One was called Ihys, and the other Asmodeus.
_____________________________________________________________
The Seal is some sort of insensate, probably non-sentient power source. Sort of like a less tentacular, spiritual Azathoth, I suppose.

It's the closest thing to an overdiety you're going to find in-cannon, probably. It gives a source to all the spiritual entities that haven't come from the Abyss or the Maelstrom, since those are the other two big sources of reality (though the Maelstrom [and thus all of reality] might just be a cast-off fragment of the abyss. Or something. the Abyss certainly predated the Maelstrom.) Axis is apparently something that dropped in from a completely different reality, though. Maybe it was an accretion point for other planes?

But that's the outer sphere, not the material plane itself.

Ah, but who created the Abyss, Maelstrom, and Seal? :D


Knoq Nixoy wrote:

I'm glad there's no one like Ao.

When Nethys became omniscient do you think he became Yog-Sothoth?

He just probably passed the Gate without having/being the Key and it shattered him into his current dualistic state. His once human mind could not comprehend the infinity of Yog-Sothoth, could not streetch enough to encompas all that Yog-Sothoth encompases. He was never even close to actually becoming Yog-Sothoth... But still, some small, small part of that Outer God could be left within Nethys preventing him for all the eternity and then some from healing and becoming whole again.

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