Question on multiple attacks of monsters!

[divby0]

Sorry guys,

one more question on the attacks of monster.

E.g. Ghouls:

Melee bite +3 (1d6+1 plus disease and paralysis) and 2 claws +3
(1d6+1 plus paralysis)

I understand the first part. Regular Melee bite attack +3 that also
has disease and paralysis if the saves for those 2 are missed, right?

The second party i do not completely understand - and 2 claws +3?

does that men that the monster has in total 3 attaks per round? 1 bite +2 claw attacks. Or can the monster either Bite or 2 claw attakcks?
Does each claw attack potentially paralize?.

In case they are seperate attakcks, are the 2 claw attacks a full round action of the creature?

thank you!

Markus

[Dryder]

The ghoul can make all three attacks (1 bite at +3, 2 claws at +3) as a full-round action.

Or, as a standard action, any ONE of those three.
Both types have the paralyze effect, but only the bite can deliver the disease.

[divby0]

Dryder wrote:

The ghoul can make all three attacks (1 bite at +3, 2 claws at +3) as a full-round action.

Or, as a standard action, any ONE of those three.
Both types have the paralyze effect, but only the bite can deliver the disease.

So the 2 claws are a standart action? so he could move and attack with two claws + 2 paralyse saves?

So a full round action would mean 3 attack rolls, 3 damage! 3 paralysis saves and 1 desease save?

-- for a troglodyte it says:
club +2 (1d6+1), claw –3 (1d4), bite –3 (1d4) or
2 claws +2 (1d4+1), bite +2 (1d4+1)

how would this work out as a sandart or a full round action?
As a standart i can do e.g. club +2 (1d6+1) or 2 claws +2 (1d4+1)

as a full round i can do club +2 (1d6+1), claw –3 (1d4), bite –3 (1d4) or 2 claws +2 (1d4+1), bite +2 (1d4+1)

?

[Starglim]

divby0 wrote:

Dryder wrote:

The ghoul can make all three attacks (1 bite at +3, 2 claws at +3) as a full-round action.

Or, as a standard action, any ONE of those three.
Both types have the paralyze effect, but only the bite can deliver the disease.

So the 2 claws are a standart action? so he could move and attack with two claws + 2 paralyse saves?

No, the ghoul needs a full-round action to make more than one attack. It could make one claw attack, for damage + one paralysis save, as a standard action.

divby0 wrote:

So a full round action would mean 3 attack rolls, 3 damage! 3 paralysis saves and 1 desease save?

Exactly right.

divby0 wrote:

-- for a troglodyte it says:

club +2 (1d6+1), claw –3 (1d4), bite –3 (1d4) or
2 claws +2 (1d4+1), bite +2 (1d4+1)

how would this work out as a sandart or a full round action?
As a standart i can do e.g. club +2 (1d6+1) or 2 claws +2 (1d4+1)

as a full round i can do club +2 (1d6+1), claw –3 (1d4), bite –3 (1d4) or 2 claws +2 (1d4+1), bite +2 (1d4+1)

?

As a standard action, it can make one claw, one club or one bite attack. Your full-round options look right.

[Dryder]

I am suddenly not so sure about the two claws of the ghoul being only one attack at +3 (being a standard action)...

Ghoul:
So, it's
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) - standard action
or
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) AND 2 claws (eihter one roll q+3 or two rolls each @+3 /not so sure about it)

Trog:
there's the word OR in it
So it either uses the club/bite combo
or the
2 claws/bite combo
(where I am again not sure if 2 claws mean two rolls, or only one roll, counting both claws as one attack).

Couldn't find anything in the rules about it either. Anyone else?!

[divby0]

Dryder wrote:

I am suddenly not so sure about the two claws of the ghoul being only one attack at +3 (being a standard action)...

Ghoul:
So, it's
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) - standard action
or
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) AND 2 claws (eihter one roll q+3 or two rolls each @+3 /not so sure about it)

Trog:
there's the word OR in it
So it either uses the club/bite combo
or the
2 claws/bite combo
(where I am again not sure if 2 claws mean two rolls, or only one roll, counting both claws as one attack).

Couldn't find anything in the rules about it either. Anyone else?!

oh you think 2 Claws could mean its one attack with one attack and damage roll and its just an attack where he is using both claws (fluff)?

anyone?

[Dryder]

Starglim is right, I think.
2 X, means 2 attack rolls at the given bonus (or malus).
But it isn't written anywhere in the Core or Bestiary.

[Oliver von Spreckelsen]

Starglim ist right:

It is like you would be fighting with 2 short swords. In a standard action you can only use one short sword, as a full round action you can use a full attack and use both short swords.

[divby0]

So what are the exact rolls on those 2 creatures:

Ghoul
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) - standard action
or
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) AND 2 claws (eihter one roll q+3 or two rolls each @+3 /not so sure about it)

Trog:
there's the word OR in it
So it either uses the club/bite combo
or the
2 claws/bite combo
(where I am again not sure if 2 claws mean two rolls, or only one roll, counting both claws as one attack).

Do 2 claws mean two rolls? and in case of the Ghoul would mean as a full round action:

1 Bite attack & damage + disease and paralayze save
and
2 claw attacks & 2 damage rolls +3 + 2 paralzye saves?

and therefore a total of 1 desease and 3 paralyze saves?

or is the 2 claws just one attack with 1 damage and 1 save?

[Name Violation]

divby0 wrote:

So what are the exact rolls on those 2 creatures:

Ghoul
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) - standard action
or
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) AND 2 claws (eihter one roll q+3 or two rolls each @+3 /not so sure about it)

Trog:
there's the word OR in it
So it either uses the club/bite combo
or the
2 claws/bite combo
(where I am again not sure if 2 claws mean two rolls, or only one roll, counting both claws as one attack).

Do 2 claws mean two rolls? and in case of the Ghoul would mean as a full round action:

1 Bite attack & damage + disease and paralayze save
and
2 claw attacks & 2 damage rolls +3 + 2 paralzye saves?

and therefore a total of 1 desease and 3 paralyze saves?

or is the 2 claws just one attack with 1 damage and 1 save?

2 claws= 2 attack rolls, 2 damage rolls

[carborundum]

Let's try and make it very easy to follow:(hope I do it properly)
>
>
>
>

Ghoul
Standard action
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) for 1d6+1 plus (chance of) disease plus (chance of) paralysis
OR
1 claw attack at +3 for 1d6+1 plus paralysis

Full Round Action
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) for 1d6+1 plus disease plus paralysis
AND
1 claw attack at +3 for 1d6+1 plus paralysis
AND
ANOTHER claw attack at +3 for 1d6+1 plus paralysis

I'll do the Trog later, phone is a bit fiddly ;-)

[divby0]

Name Violation wrote:

divby0 wrote:

So what are the exact rolls on those 2 creatures:

Ghoul
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) - standard action
or
1 bite attack (one roll @+3) AND 2 claws (eihter one roll q+3 or two rolls each @+3 /not so sure about it)

Trog:
there's the word OR in it
So it either uses the club/bite combo
or the
2 claws/bite combo
(where I am again not sure if 2 claws mean two rolls, or only one roll, counting both claws as one attack).

Do 2 claws mean two rolls? and in case of the Ghoul would mean as a full round action:

1 Bite attack & damage + disease and paralayze save
and
2 claw attacks & 2 damage rolls +3 + 2 paralzye saves?

and therefore a total of 1 desease and 3 paralyze saves?

or is the 2 claws just one attack with 1 damage and 1 save?

2 claws= 2 attack rolls, 2 damage rolls

and i guess than also 2 paralyze saves?

[Staffan Johansson]

Assuming they hit, yes.

As for the troglodyte, they have two different setups.

1. Using a one-handed club, they attack with Club +2, Claw -3, Bite -3. That's three attacks, total, on a full action. With a standard action (or some other circumstance where they only get one attack, such as when charging), they would only attack with the club.

2. Without weapons, they attack with 2 claws +2 and bite +2, again a total of 3 attacks. On a single-attack, they would use a claw or a bite.

The reason the claws and bite are much worse when using a club is that if you combine weapon attacks and natural attacks, all the natural attacks are considered secondary which means they get -5 to hit and only get to add half Strength bonus to damage.

[divby0]

Wow so a Ghoul has 3 chances to paralyze somebody!

thats a lot of attacks where my PCs only have 1 attack at lvl 3....

[Staffan Johansson]

Yeah, that's why ghouls are considered dangerous. But remember that they need to hit in order to paralyze, and they have a pretty crappy attack bonus, although far less crappy than in 3.5 (because of how Pathfinder changed primary/secondary attacks).

[carborundum]

Your players will soon learn not to give monsters full attacks if they can help it :-)

I see Staffan laid the troglodyte attacks out nicely. Have fun!