I originally was gravitating toward Master Summoner, but I'm starting to get jealous of a full progression Eidolon.
The main things I wanted from Master Summoner was the ability to summon monsters and keep the Eidolon out, but the Eidolon starts to get worthless by level 10 (I've been keying him up to become a mount...)
It IS nice that you can summon monster multiple times - but the micromanagement could get crazy.
Then there's the fact that I basically save two feats by having Augment Summoning as a free feat without the requirement.
I've planned out my Master Summoner to be an archer similar to the Archer Bard that Treantmonk puts out there...
I'm starting to wonder if going Core Summoner is just better though, and summoning monsters when the Eidolon is gone.
What's your opinion on the two as far as optimization goes?
im not sure how this would work considering Master Summoner says the pet is only half level but could you take boon companion to skirt that half level problem a little?
Full powered pet can be nice thou given what all you can do with it, but being able to just drown the enemy in summoned monsters can be fun as well.
I played a master summoner on a friend's campaign and, I have to say it's, TOO GOOD, I mean, I had 3 bralani at the same time taking damage, casting some cure spells here and there when needed, casting blur, flying around to help people, they did everything lol, I just stayed behind em as they practically played themselves. I can't wait for level 11 when I can summon a Lillend! You should probably stick to 1-3 monsters for ease of management, if the situation arises and you need one more or two more, then summon them. The ability to summon monsters as a standard action and lasting 1 minute per level is WAY too good.
As for the eidolon, I made him focused on scouting and not being seen, those evolutions that give +8 pts to a skill are invaluable. Also make him small for some ridiculous stealth checks (and cast invisibility on it too).
I played a master summoner on a friend's campaign and, I have to say it's, TOO GOOD, I mean, I had 3 bralani at the same time taking damage, casting some cure spells here and there when needed, casting blur, flying around to help people, they did everything lol, I just stayed behind em as they practically played themselves. I can't wait for level 11 when I can summon a Lillend! You should probably stick to 1-3 monsters for ease of management, if the situation arises and you need one more or two more, then summon them. The ability to summon monsters as a standard action and lasting 1 minute per level is WAY too good.
As for the eidolon, I made him focused on scouting and not being seen, those evolutions that give +8 pts to a skill are invaluable. Also make him small for some ridiculous stealth checks (and cast invisibility on it too).
This man here is correct. The master summoner is going to be your better choice.
As a regular summoner, you can:
1. Either your eidolon(not a weak minion)
2. or 1 summon from your sla at a time.
Just 1 summon by itself is alittle weak but it can be a crutch when your eidolon takes a dirt nap.As a master summoner you can:
1. play with your eidolon out and still get to use a summon.
2. Play without your eidolon out and have as many summons out as you need.option number 1 is not bad if you use your eidolon as a scout/skill monkey/umd wand caster.
option number 2 is ridiculous because you can use it as either a slow moderate power ability or can you use it all at once and have all your summons out before a boss fight.As the master summoner, both of your options are viable while a regular summoner who loses his eidolon is a much sadder version of his original self.
add superior summoning to this situation, and everytime you summon creatures from a lower lvl list, you get an extra creature.
Some good points.
I think I'll stay with Master Summoner then.
Do you think it's still worth being a Half-Elf to get the extra Evolution point every 4 levels?
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I played a master summoner on a friend's campaign and, I have to say it's, TOO GOOD, I mean, I had 3 bralani at the same time taking damage, casting some cure spells here and there when needed, casting blur, flying around to help people, they did everything lol, I just stayed behind em as they practically played themselves. I can't wait for level 11 when I can summon a Lillend! You should probably stick to 1-3 monsters for ease of management, if the situation arises and you need one more or two more, then summon them. The ability to summon monsters as a standard action and lasting 1 minute per level is WAY too good.
As for the eidolon, I made him focused on scouting and not being seen, those evolutions that give +8 pts to a skill are invaluable. Also make him small for some ridiculous stealth checks (and cast invisibility on it too).
This man here is correct. The master summoner is going to be your better choice.
As a regular summoner, you can:
1. Either your eidolon(not a weak minion)
2. or 1 summon from your sla at a time.
Just 1 summon by itself is alittle weak but it can be a crutch when your eidolon takes a dirt nap.As a master summoner you can:
1. play with your eidolon out and still get to use a summon.
2. Play without your eidolon out and have as many summons out as you need.option number 1 is not bad if you use your eidolon as a scout/skill monkey/umd wand caster.
option number 2 is ridiculous because you can use it as either a slow moderate power ability or can you use it all at once and have all your summons out before a boss fight.As the master summoner, both of your options are viable while a regular summoner who loses his eidolon is a much sadder version of his original self.
add superior summoning to this situation, and everytime you summon creatures from a lower lvl list, you get an extra creature.
Some good points.
I think I'll stay with Master Summoner then.
Do you think it's still worth...
Nope pretty much go human if your Master summoner, stay hal-elf for normal or Synthesist
Make your Eidolon a UMD specialist, darting around firing wands off to help you guys out. Or as a scout.
Human is probably best, to get that extra feat that will allow you to get the feats that modify your summons.
You also shouldn't be afraid of the Small option for Eidolons. A bit of extra AC and Attack won't make too much difference to something that's not going to be the primary frontliner anyway. Eidolons are worth alot more than their attack rolls. They effectively expand the summoners skill list by a ton, grant him lots of abilities he would otherwise have to use spells for etc. etc.
Personally I prefer Evolutionists over Master Summoner's since they keep the GM's on their toes on how to counter the summoner's pet.
Make your Eidolon a UMD specialist, darting around firing wands off to help you guys out. Or as a scout.
Human is probably best, to get that extra feat that will allow you to get the feats that modify your summons.
Well, with Augment Summoning for Free at level 2, I only really need one feat for Superior Summons...
As for the extra level 1 feat, I'm going to be spending it on Exotic Weapon Proficiency anyway for my Archer Build - so with Ancestral Arms I can get that with a Half-Elf. (My GM has a steampunk crossbow in this setting I want to use since no one else in my group has gone for it.)
So it really boils down to whether the extra skill point and 1 hp per level is better than getting the equivalent of 5 feats by level 20 with getting an extra Evolution Point every 4 levels.
Sounds like it's not though, since I'm probably better off NOT using my Eidolon in most combat situations.
I'm playing a Master Summoner right now. He's fifth level, and his eidolon is currently pretty useless in a combat situation. She can do almost everything else, though - I've fixed her up as a freaky little (snake) rogue with arms. She can Disable Devices with the best of them, and she specializes in Perception and Sense Motive, skills that the rest of the party is severely lacking. She can also solve a lot of problems with a climb speed and a knife.
The summoner himself is a dominating force in combat due to his ability to cover the field in whatever is appropriate to the situation. Many an encounter has been buried under the force of a horde of Earth Elementals. Even when encounters turn against the rest of the party, he has the staying power to keep summoning up something else, giving us time to fall back and mount a second offensive. Sometimes he ends up having to spend an action dismissing his eidolon, but that's a small price to pay for the devastation multiple summons can wreak.
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I'm playing a Master Summoner right now. He's fifth level, and his eidolon is currently pretty useless in a combat situation. She can do almost everything else, though - I've fixed her up as a freaky little (snake) rogue with arms. She can Disable Devices with the best of them, and she specializes in Perception and Sense Motive, skills that the rest of the party is severely lacking. She can also solve a lot of problems with a climb speed and a knife.
The summoner himself is a dominating force in combat due to his ability to cover the field in whatever is appropriate to the situation. Many an encounter has been buried under the force of a horde of Earth Elementals. Even when encounters turn against the rest of the party, he has the staying power to keep summoning up something else, giving us time to fall back and mount a second offensive. Sometimes he ends up having to spend an action dismissing his eidolon, but that's a small price to pay for the devastation multiple summons can wreak.
+1. I am playing the same template as flamethrower49, albeit just reached level 4. Yes, you don't have the same power behind your hits as your party tank, but you can be useful in just about any combat situation, be it on the ground, air, water, etc.
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I'm playing a MS 4, but I took a dip into Oracle... :) Hear me out. If you look at the Moonlight/Sunlight/Starlight Summons feats, you'll notice the prereq is for the ability to cast SNA, but the feat modifies anything you summon not just SNA summons.
I dipped into Oracle with the Nature mystery and the Animal Friend Revelation. This gets me access to SNA1, and 2 other 1st lvl spells in addition to 4 orisons. I took CLW and Remove Sickness for my 1st lvls. Always nice to have extra healing. Since I cast with CHA for summoner and oracle, that's a bonus, and I can get Nature's Whispers with Extra Revelation down the road so I can use my CHA in place of Dex for AC & CMD.
I spec'd my eidolon as a mount, since I'm a halfling and took the lame curse. In addition I also gave him scent along with skilled perception and survival, so he he's good at finding things and hunting them down.
I tend to rule the fights when my eidolon isn't out, since my summons are nasty and I can get up 10 2nd lvls or insane amounts of 1st lvls. Since I have Superior Summoning, usually a single 1st lvl will net me 2-4 celestial eagles with three attacks and the ability to smite, nothing stands for long with my flock of eagles out. And having a bard Inspiring Courage doesn't hurt either... :)
I was thinking about Serpentine for the dex bonus...
But that would mean an 8 str once I make it small.
What do you guys think of the Aquatic form? I could actually use all those evolutions in the right circumstance?
I'm also leaning toward the 4 legged form... it's a shame that I can't use those as arms...
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Broodmaster is the other one.Just as a point of information, Master Summoner is one of the archetypes banned from PFS play.Unless they've added it and haven't changed the Additional resources, its not banned. Broodmaster is, though...
It might help if you checked your resources before posting something false.
The following parts of Ultimate Magic are NOT legal for play or function differently than written in the sourcebook: Alternate Class Abilities: alchemical simulacrum discovery, alchemical zombie discovery, bottled ooze discovery may only be used to bottle oozes which appear in the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, doppelganger simulacrum discovery, greater alchemical simulacrum discovery, Clone Master alchemist archetype, Vivisectionist alchemist archetype does not gain awaken at 9th level nor does it grant the ability to make anthropomorphic animal permanent, Geisha bard archetype grants Spell Focus instead of Scribe Scroll, clerics using alternate channeling rules who worship a deity not listed in the Core Rulebook must provide a copy of the source in which their god's portfolio is listed, Clostered Cleric archetype grants Spell Focus at 4th level in place of Scribe Scroll, Pack Lord druid archetype, Reincarnated Druid archetype, an ex-Inquisitor may not replace existing class abilities with those granted by the Heretic archetype, a broken monk vow only requires a casting of atonement to be renewed, the Time oracle mystery grants hold monster at 10th level in place of permanency, Broodmaster summoner archetype, Evolutionist summoners may only mutate an eidolon between sessions, child scent hex, poison steep hex, cook people major hex, witch's brew major hex, arcane builder arcane discovery, golem constructor arcane discovery, true name arcane discovery, staff-like wand arcane discovery; Familiars: all familiars in Chapter 2 are legal; Feats: Blighted Critical, Create Reliquary Arms and Shield, Create Sanguine Elixir; Spells: all spells are legal for play except those which grant a spellblight (such as curse of magic negation or steal voice); Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars; Words of Power are also forbidden.
See Master Summoner mentioned anywhere there? Nope, because its not banned, unless like I said earlier they've added it and haven't changed the page yet, but I haven't heard anything about that. So, got any proof?
I was thinking about Serpentine for the dex bonus...
But that would mean an 8 str once I make it small.
What do you guys think of the Aquatic form? I could actually use all those evolutions in the right circumstance?
I'm also leaning toward the 4 legged form... it's a shame that I can't use those as arms...
Serpentine small eidolon makes for a good scout thanks to its increased dexterity and stealth (size). It is also better for an archer build or a dervish dancer eidolon. Biped and Quadruped are good choices, biped more useful if you go the UMD route to save evo points. Don't take aquatic, unless your campaign is aquatic (and still...). Don't worry too much for the decreased STR for being small, remember that with leveling the eidolon gains STR and DEX bonuses (also if you go Dervish Dance route you really care only about DEX).
Personally, I really enjoyed playing the Master Summoner. I'm playing a Master summoner, a Synthesist (campaign suspended 'till FAQed) and Evolutionist Summoner (started as a summoner then by level 9 the UM came out and GM agreed to 'update' PCs).
I can say that Master and Synthesist are better choices in respect of the Base Summoner, because you can focus on one aspect at a time and make it stronger while sacrificing a little bit of versatility, so the way I see the normal Summoner is that he became 'obsolete' (well not so much), UNLESS you go for Evolutionist (I particularly appreciated it because our GM used the Slow XP Progression).
Master Summoner get more powerful the more they level up because of the Summon Monster ability while the Regular Summoner by level 11 and after has his Eidolon weakened (low saving throws against a lot of monsters with SLA, spellcasting abilities or anything that relies on save DCs).
Good thoughts guys.
Thanks for the response!
I think I'm going to go with a UMD biped Eidolon as a Master Summoner.