That's not even a question they ask here in AZ. They'll try to accommodate hardship, but they don't guarantee anything.
Having done jury duty in both CA and AZ, I prefer the system we have in AZ. One Day/One Trial. If you don't get on a jury on the day the call you, you're done. I remember having a two-week stint of jury duty in San Diego one year, and having to call in every day to see if I was needed the next morning. That sucked out loud.
It's one day/one trial here now as well. I served once in the old system, which was no fun.
While Kalimac doesn't have trap-finding skillz, he does have a pretty high Perception (Keen Halfling Senses, doncha know?). So does Attatoq. Both are at +8. Attatoq is +16 if it's Scent based.
So having them up front isn't a bad call.
I think Rhost and I are both at + 13. Myri has trap finding. Which is why I suggested her in front. But Rhost and Kalimac would be good in the front, too. Scent is probably really useful for tracking our NPCs when there are no tracks to follow...
I think Rhost and I are both at + 13. Myri has trap finding. Which is why I suggested her in front. But Rhost and Kalimac would be good in the front, too. Scent is probably really useful for tracking our NPCs when there are no tracks to follow...
Attatoq has been catching the scent of our friends, but has not been getting a scent trail. But we keep sniffing.
I think Rhost and I are both at + 13. Myri has trap finding. Which is why I suggested her in front. But Rhost and Kalimac would be good in the front, too. Scent is probably really useful for tracking our NPCs when there are no tracks to follow...Attatoq has been catching the scent of our friends, but has not been getting a scent trail. But we keep sniffing.
:P Rhost should wash more, the Barbarian's unwashedness must be throwing Attatoq off the trail ;)
Regarding marching order, GM comments:
Since the question has been asked as to whether it makes a difference, having someone perceptive at the front can sometimes matter. You guys haven't had to deal with a lot of traps yet, but it's usually the first person who has to deal with it if they come up.
But I want to be careful to say that traps are one type of situation, and there are others. There are good arguments to make for MOST of you to be on point, in one way or another, depending on the situation.
Also want to add -- the current messed-uppedness of the marching order, as I tried to note on the board, is specifically because several people informed me that they were deliberately doing something not-normal-order in one way or another. I do usually try to put you in a more sensible pattern, and as I've said before, if you generally indicate who's usually frontish, middleish, or backish that's fine and I'll put you in a good order -- but my hands were kind of tied on this one.
I have a +9 Perception. Also, I'd like to point out that if I go first, my reach will usually give me a free AoO or even two when enemies charge me. This time, I couldn't wait for that to happen because I wanted to claim as much of the corridor for our side as possible.
Note:
It is possible for anyone to occupy the same square as a helpless character (such as an unconscious one).
If that character wakes up before you move, you obviously cannot move into the square.
If that character wakes up AFTER you move and take your actions, but while you are still in the square, you will at that time be moved back to the "closest legal position" (this cannot, incidentally, be used to teleport you past the monsters, legal positions in this case would all be behind you.)
If that character wakes up AFTER you move and take your actions, but while you are still in the square, you will at that time be moved back to the "closest legal position" (this cannot, incidentally, be used to teleport you past the monsters, legal positions in this case would all be behind you.)
Oh, weird. Does it say that in the rules somewhere? Shouldn't rather the train of people in the corridor be pushed back by one square to make space for the new character? Seems weird that people in a 5'-wide corridor wouldn't find a way to rearrange themselves.
Alternately, isn't it possible to be in the same square as someone else while squeezing?
Alternately, isn't it possible to be in the same square as someone else while squeezing?
You can be in the same square as another person for an attack action. But you cannot end your movement in the same square as another person.
(So if you have the movement, you can spring attack to the front of a column like we have at the moment, and return to your starting position. And I can find the FAQ on that if we need it. Which is HERE.)
Thanks for the link!
Looking at the FAQ, I also saw this:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9ojt
This makes the tripping feat chain a viable path for a high-Dex character. Nice! :) In particular, I'm still hoping to play a Alchemist with the Vivisectionist and Beastmorph archetypes sooner or later. He'd love that rule, since he can get the Trip ability from Beastmorph, and his Dex is going to be astronomic thanks to the mutagen. Free debuffing and battlefield control with one's attacks, what not to like? :)
"Why do you not just step between the dimensions to circumvent that odious chiromorphic creature?" says Iaurinn. "Oh, wait. I keep forgetting that you muggles are rooted in the material plane like so many trees." He sighs.
Oh, weird. Does it say that in the rules somewhere?
That's the "what happens if your character accidentally ends up in an illegal space" rule, yes.
While it doesn't make the absolute most sense from a logic standpoint, it makes a LOT of sense from a tactical gaming standpoint, in that it affects one character rather than everyone. The "more logical" option opens the possibility of a World Of Suck, e.g.:
"OK, Bob woke up, which means the fighter moves back five feet ... which means everyone moves back five feet ... which means the barbarian now can no longer attack with her reach weapon, the wizard is now out of close range and therefore has no remaining useful spells, the zen archer is all the way back round the corner and can no longer fire, you can no longer see the cavalier's banner, the front line is no longer within the cleric's magic circle ..."
You see the potential problem there.
There are a couple of feats, special abilities, or conditions that allow two creatures to occupy the same square without just "passing through" (Calvary Formation, Swarming, Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny size, a creature with the "helpless" condition), but it cannot be done by squeezing.
Although ... I hesitate to bring this up, but in case the situation gets so dangerous that weird options are considered ... A character exactly one size smaller than a second character could theoretically occupy the square immediately *above* the second character by using them as a mount. For two bipeds, this would require the second character to be in the "prone" position (on all fours) taking all associated penalties.
Alright... but Kalimac has to promise not to use his spurs, and to roll a ride check to ward off attacks against me whenever he can. And not a single word about this to Ameiko, or heads will roll.
Oh, I'm glad Hrunndalf doesn't understand a word of what Goti's saying.
Alright... but Kalimac has to promise not to use his spurs, and to roll a ride check to ward off attacks against me whenever he can. And not a single word about this to Ameiko, or heads will roll.
Kalimac doesn't use spurs, so that's not a worry. And he would definitely use his Ride skills and Mounted Combat feat to keep you safe. And he's not going to say anything to Ameiko (nor Sandru). He can just hear the "piggyback combat" comments already.
Given the nature of the current combat, if you want to give me a general "proceed as before unless the situation changes, in which case give me a heads up", due to jury duty time constraints, I'd have no problem with that. Your call, of course.
I'd appreciate that. I was able to get in Round 4 just now, since I haven't left for jury duty yet. But in order to keep thing flowing and not having to wait for me, lets go with "proceed as before unless the situation changes, in which case give me a heads up".
I can generally read the posts in the mid-morning break, lunch break, and mid-afternoon break they give us. But posting combat, with all the tagging that goes with it, is a pain.
Thanks for the offer, kind sir.
Regarding marching order, GM comments:
You guys haven't had to deal with a lot of traps yet, but it's usually the first person who has to deal with it if they come up.
Another point toward Rhost being on one end or the other -- he has the high perception, and as a Barbarian gets some bonuses against trap attacks. This doesn't help the rest of you if it's something that we all need to save against once sprung, of course. If "deal with it" means "disarm" rather than "survive."
Another point toward Rhost being on one end or the other -- he has the high perception, and as a Barbarian gets some bonuses against trap attacks. This doesn't help the rest of you if it's something that we all need to save against once sprung, of course. If "deal with it" means "disarm" rather than "survive."
I meant "deal with it" in the sense of "detect or set off".
Who it affects if set off depends on the trap, the most common being "the one who sets it off", "that person and a few people", and "everyone in the area".
(The GM is frankly kind of hoping you all Unleash the Hurting on this guy now that you're finally in a better position. Lengthy combat, it has been.)
I hate cramped spaces.
Also, polearms are apparently much less useful than they might seem at first. I should probably invest in a greatsword.
Hurting is being Unleashed.
Remember that one of your shots will be a 5 less to hit than the others on an iterative attack, though. :)
Yup, my bad, and I was apparently a round behind everyone else also. Per the "Round 5" in the spoiler header. Probably need to stop doing things that late, or just have the understanding I'm more likely to have errors and say stupid things. ;) Pause a moment for fond memories of all night, multi-day gaming sessions with pizza....long, long time ago.
Probably happened because I decided to try the third shot last minute and just copied it from the one above or a notepad sheet, don't even remember. Knew I had missed though. Don't know why it didn't register that the number was wrong, while I was seeing it as 5 less.
Ah, I think it was I was just going to do two attacks to not waste the third arrow, which was the likely scenario, than I decided to try the third one anyway, and copied it from above, remembered to change the "to hit3" and "dam3" but not the...anyway, rambling, going to call a client now.
So I have reviewed the Caravan rules, and I think the real question (re: Caravan Feat) we need to answer is this:
When foraying up to (and over) the Crown, do we want Increased Damage so combats end faster, or do we want Scavengers so that we can repair damage with less materials? (or as always the possibility that I've forgotten something more useful)
I think we should take Enhanced Caravan for one of the two (levels 6 & 7) feats we have coming before we leave Karlsgard, and I do think it should be Morale & Mobility again -- because Morale helps with Unrest, and Mobility is the source of Security checks, which among other things (that I had forgotten) will determine whether or not we can successfully flee a pear-shaped caravan battle.
There seems to be a reasonable consensus that these should be the next three feats you take, so I'll point this out:
You will reach 8th level on this journey, so you'll definitely get a chance to take whichever one you didn't take at the start of it.
So, assuming you take Enhanced Caravan as one of them, the question is, which of the other two can you go without for longer?
The pro and con arguments, are basically:
1) Scavengers -- Con: Easier to prepare for this in advance. If you bring along a ton of Repair Materials, you'll very probably last until the next settlement. Pro: If it so happens that you don't ... you might end up completely screwed. If things go horribly wrong and you run out of Repair Materials in the middle of nowhere, without Scavengers, you've basically got no recourse whatsoever, and the next attack might end you.
2) Increased Damage -- Con: Unlike Scavengers, you can't "run out" of this one. There's always a minimum amount of damage you'll be able to do in a fight even without this feat. And you do have other options, such as running away. Pro: Your damage output right now is, frankly, REALLY low compared to the stuff you might be facing. Adding another 1D6 to it is probably going to help you out often.
So I'd say your basic choice is ...
Do you want to take the option for a potential disaster that might never, ever come up, but could be the ONLY thing that saves you if it does (Scavengers)?
Or do you want to take an option that will give you strong benefits quite a lot of the time, and hurt you a lot of the time for not having it, but which likely doesn't leave you completely doomed if you're in the situation where you need it but don't have it (Increased Damage)?
And again, bear in mind whichever you don't take now, you can take at 8th.
My vote is for Scavengers.
As far as I can tell, our damage is currently 1d6+7 = 10.5. With the Increased Damage feat, we'd have 2d6+7 = 14 instead. That's a 33% increase. That's clearly worth it, but less so than e.g. Power Attack is for Hrunndalf (50% increase in damage!). Also, note that while Power Attacks gets better with time, Increased Damage has diminishing returns (in that its bonus is static while the base damage increases).
Right now, though, a 33% increase in damage means cutting 1/4 off the length of a combat, which is like having 33% more hitpoints. Pretty damn good.
I think we can risk not having Scavengers in the first leg of the journey, since there are still settlements at which to stop for repairs. Also, Ry recommended we invest in hitpoints to weather out combats; that suggests that the total amount of hitpoints is more important than the repair rate. Adding damage is effectively adding hitpoints (though the statistics are a bit swingy, I suppose).
So I think I'd vote for damage first.
For me the question comes down to when would we be hitting 8th level. If we are going to hit 8th level while there are still settlements we can reach, then let's do Increased Damage first and get Scavengers at 8th. But if we're going to be in No Man's Land while still at 7th level, I'd want Scavengers first.
If we don't know that, then I'd vote for Scavengers to be on the safe side.
I would go for Scavengers before Increased Damage. (I think I said that before... but since this seems like a good time to repeat myself :).)
I would prefer the next feat before we pass the expected settlements, but would be willing to go slightly past, assuming of course that we can resupply at those settlements.
How many encounters are we likely to face between settlements? Scavengers would definitely be the more conservative, risk averse way to approach the journey. (That is, in no way saying bad.) I would probably cede to those who decide to have the "insurance" of Scavengers as a way to make sure we can get the caravan moving again by finding the stuff we need in the wasteland around us if we find that the settlements ahead are not likely to be particularly well stocked or we are likely to have 3 or more possibly damaging events between them or that the average singular event is likely to take us below 50% hp.
So assuming we have about 13 or so storage units worth of repair materials after adding one more wagon, and assuming we get enough new wainrights (5 total) we should be able to repair on average about 90hp/day at the cost of 5 units of repair materials (18hp current average per, I think). No thorough risk/reward or probability projection here, I just think that increased damage is likely to yield better results, assuming we understand that there is a worst case scenario where the game could end early...which would really suck.
I would definitely want to have Scavengers before settlements become stretched to thin.
I guess my answer is "can we obtain more information before having to choose?" If not, I will stick with Increased Damage, although I fully see the logic in the safer approach of Scavengers first.
If you can let me know?
Myriana - how many encounters you will face between settlements, and how much damage they are likely to do, are alas not questions I'm going to answer. I'm willing to give the occasional good idea/bad idea alerts, but not give away the whole game. ;)
You are correct that "totally screwed" probably does not mean "you all die and the game ends" if the GM can help it, since that's lame. It does mean using the "Caravan reduced to 0 hit points" rules from the Players' Guide, which are extremely harsh.
I will note that acquiring more wainwrights at this point probably means more PCs taking Craft (carpentry) or Profession (engineer or wainwright) when they level next. The number of new NPCs you are going to be able to convince with you to go over the Crown of the World in winter is probably limited to those who can realistically be said to owe you a debt of gratitude in one way or another.
Incidentally, I have my own personal opinion as which of the two feats would be a better choice, but as it's a personal preference I'd have "if I were a player", rather than "GM advice", I've decided not to weigh in. I think they're both excellent choices.
You are correct that "totally screwed" probably does not mean "you all die and the game ends" if the GM can help it, since that's lame. It does mean using the "Caravan reduced to 0 hit points" rules from the Players' Guide, which are extremely harsh.
Alright, so we have to make sure we never hit 0. There's five things we can do towards that end: (1) Have a s%+%load of HP to begin with, (2) have a high AC, (3) do enough damage to end the encounter quickly, (4) heal up damage quickly enough so it doesn't stack from one fight to the next, (5) be capable of successful flight in case of a powerful threat.
I'm not sure (4) works, because a powerful encounter might well be able to kill us with full hitpoints if we're not careful. I'll be taking a rank of carpentry, for sure, but that skill is only useful between fights. We need to make sure we can survive individual fights before we worry about the greater scale of things.
I find it reassuring that we can repair 90 damage with 5 units of materials. We have a 7-wagon caravan, and can afford to carry only minimal food stores, and no trade goods (they suck). So I think we can be reasonably robust against the possibility of running ouf of repair materials for the time being.
Kyra, just checking, can we know about when we are likely to gain 8th level? Closer to the start of the trip? (assume not) Closer to the middle? or closer to the end?
I would assume we will be more likely (also assuming we take proper precautions) to need Scavengers near the middle, late middle or late middle-to-end of the trip (if Tian Xia is mostly out of favor with the trade route). Therefore, I think we should have Scavengers sometime before the middle of the journey, if possible, but taking it first, I think, will make it more likely that we will have to use it and probably slow down our journey for more time spent in repairs.
again, any and possibly all assumptions may be wrong.
... and no trade goods (they suck).
Haven't mentioned this before, because it slipped my mind, but while this is generally true, I had planned to allow much more significant profits on any trade goods which are successfully conveyed all the way from Avistan to Tian Xia.
... and no trade goods (they suck).Haven't mentioned this before, because it slipped my mind, but while this is generally true, I had planned to allow much more significant profits on any trade goods which are successfully conveyed all the way from Avistan to Tian Xia.
We may want to look into what might actually be something the people of Tian Xia would be interested in from this side of the world, perhaps especially during a time when no caravans would generally be coming over...however, again, that is not the primary purpose of this caravan, but do we want to have even a modicum of cover story?
We may want to look into what might actually be something the people of Tian Xia would be interested in from this side of the world, perhaps especially during a time when no caravans would generally be coming over...however, again, that is not the primary purpose of this caravan, but do we want to have even a modicum of cover story?
Any Trade Goods purchased in Avistan may be considered to be "interesting to the people of Tian Xia".
Kyra, just checking, can we know about when we are likely to gain 8th level? Closer to the start of the trip? (assume not) Closer to the middle? or closer to the end?
At a glance, looks like roughly around the halfway point.
So, I am getting the distinct sense that many of you are waiting for the module to get on with it so you can get the NPCs back and return to a less dungeon-crawly style of play. I would like to reassure you, ooc, that you are ROCKETING towards the end of this module, and very little now stands between you and it.
So, I am getting the distinct sense that many of you are waiting for the module to get on with it so you can get the NPCs back and return to a less dungeon-crawly style of play. I would like to reassure you, ooc, that you are ROCKETING towards the end of this module, and very little now stands between you and it.
Yay! I hope you don't have to cut out too much content for the sake of our impatient hearts. ;)
That said, I don't mind the dungeon-crawl mode as long as it moves at a reasonable speed (preferentially two rounds a day). It certainly helped that we were allowed to have flex-time conversations.
BTW, it looks like we're gathering more and more "pets"... this is really turning into an animé. ;) If we're all going to have our pet in the end, dibs on the giant wolf. :D
no trade goods (they suck)
We can disburse trade goods en route to NPCs to reduce Unrest if necessary. Which means that we probably *should* bring some. They're not as useful for this purpose as "treasure," but the former can be purchased and the latter must be run across.
We can disburse trade goods en route to NPCs to reduce Unrest if necessary.
Also true, and there are only a limited number of ways to reduce Unrest, so having some on hand could end up being fairly important.
Is it wrong that I'm totally hoping for an Attatoq/Silmemir/Skygni love triangle?
Is it wrong that I'm totally hoping for an Attatoq/Silmemir/Skygni love triangle?
I've been thinking about changing the next wolf that's supposed to come up into an aardvark or something.
Wolves may be cliché, but they're very thematic for the North. I say keep 'em coming. ;)
So, I am getting the distinct sense that many of you are waiting for the module to get on with it so you can get the NPCs back and return to a less dungeon-crawly style of play. I would like to reassure you, ooc, that you are ROCKETING towards the end of this module, and very little now stands between you and it.
Myri's player: dungeon crawl is fine.
Myri: we need to find friends. torture is bad. Torture of friends is very, very bad. Not okay, even.