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Just an ooc tactical thing, should anyone not be fluent in D&D monster stats: Ry had Hrithik do tactical readout ... in which was included the phrase "somewhat resistant to all non-magical weapon damage".
That generally means either 5 or 10 or 15 damage shaved off the top from any hit not meeting the relevant criterion. (In this case, 5 or 10 or 15 damage shaved off unless the weapon doing the hitting is a magical weapon). In the case of ranged weapons, the ammunition is what matters: +1 bow shooting normal ammo will suffer the shaving, while normal bow shooting +1 ammo will bypass the reduction.
Now you know! Because knowing is half the battle!
sorry Kalimac, you didn't get post 4000 :(
In the case of ranged weapons, the ammunition is what matters: +1 bow shooting normal ammo will suffer the shaving, while normal bow shooting +1 ammo will bypass the reduction.
Really? Where is that from? I thought bows impart all their properties on their ammo?
That would unduly penalize archers IMHO...
Which language did you choose for Varisian?
Lithuanian, I believe.
In the case of ranged weapons, the ammunition is what matters: +1 bow shooting normal ammo will suffer the shaving, while normal bow shooting +1 ammo will bypass the reduction.
This appears to be incorrect. From the core rules:
"Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have)."
(And the honor of a touch from the noodley appendage has now been bestowed. Line up for your blessing.)
This appears to be incorrect. From the core rules:
"Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have)."
Glad to hear that. I have a Zen Archer character on my shelf, waiting to be played.
On the upside, 4th level can't be too far off.
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In the case of ranged weapons, the ammunition is what matters: +1 bow shooting normal ammo will suffer the shaving, while normal bow shooting +1 ammo will bypass the reduction.This appears to be incorrect. From the core rules:
"Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have)."
Curse you, subtle Pathfinder rules changes! (And bless you, because that is much more player friendly than some iterations of the D&D 3.x ruleset).
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In the case of ranged weapons, the ammunition is what matters: +1 bow shooting normal ammo will suffer the shaving, while normal bow shooting +1 ammo will bypass the reduction.Really? Where is that from? I thought bows impart all their properties on their ammo?
That would unduly penalize archers IMHO...
That's from some iterations of D&D 3.x, apparently subtlely fixed by the Pathfinder people. I've mostly run Paizo's old magazine-APs and their first early independent APs ... always within old Wizards-of-the-Coast rubrics, so these less-glaring tweaks keep sneaking up and biting me when I'm not on a platform ideal for opening and checking the SRD in other windows.
Sorry for the disinformation.
(Early iterations of those rubrics were broken in the other direction: modifiers from bow and arrow were additive and stackable, letting archers who did spend the coin on magic ammo rack up insane enhancement combinations for economical prices ... so the drawback never came up all that often.)
so i assume since fire doesn't seem to do anything to it, the flaming burst arrow would be wasted against the tentacly monster?
The magic part of the arrow will ensure that it will take full damage from the arrow, but yes the additional fire damage will be wasted. :)
DR 20/player characters. Go, Kelda!
What are we supposed to use? Harsh language?
sorry Kalimac, you didn't get post 4000 :(
I know. I thought about posting three in a row, just to get the 4000th post, but then I'd have to put up with Hrithik's jibes and gambols. I'm his ride home from the weekly RL game, and that's a lot of time for merciless teasing. And me being so thin skinned and all.
So here's hoping I manage to get 5000. ;)
What are we supposed to use? Harsh language?
Game over, man! Game over!
What are we supposed to use? Harsh language?
Send it to its proper plane of existence with no supper.
What are we supposed to use? Harsh language?Send it to its proper plane of existence with no supper.
Or the nearest convenient parallel dimension.
sorry Kalimac, you didn't get post 4000 :(I know. I thought about posting three in a row, just to get the 4000th post, but then I'd have to put up with Hrithik's jibes and gambols. I'm his ride home from the weekly RL game, and that's a lot of time for merciless teasing. And me being so thin skinned and all.
So here's hoping I manage to get 5000. ;)
you mainland types drive so long... here i think 20 minutes to get half way across the island is foreeeeeever! ;)
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What are we supposed to use? Harsh language?
That's about all Hrithik's got left :-)
Seriously, this comes across as the kind of monster an old-school designer expects the party to run from, rest near the dungeon, change spell selection, and re-engage. Because the obvious solution is to take the 4 crossbows from a few rooms over and enchant all of them and the Earth Breaker and Hrunndalf's guisarme and Kalimac's lance and the ladies' bows with magic weapon, have some angst so everyone becomes antiheroically neutral in alignment for a day*, beat up the rest of the dungeon so everyone goes up a level, and come back fully rested for a second attempt and go to town.
Nevermind that it's stupid for the monster to just sit there and let a party of adventurers do all that, but it does seem to be the designer's plan. I can't imagine how a party of four 3rd level characters was supposed to even contemplate facing this Thing and winning on the first try.
* = kidding!
This is, in fact, the most dangerous critter in the module. But as has been mystically hinted at, you have advantages written into the nature of this combat which are not at all evident simply from the standpoint of the monster's abilities and stats.
Without revealing the details, you will note, for example, that on rounds two and three, it basically ended up doing jack. There are reasons for that, and for those same reasons, I suspect this fight will end soon, and in your favor.
Would it be possible to blow this fight and have it turn into a TPK? Of course. That is true of any fight. But the sound and reasonable tactics you are employing or about to employ (e.g., whittling it down with ranged combat as much as you could before it closed, dispelling the darkness, upping damage with Enlarge and Tactician, using intimidate to prey on its mysterious "fear", using the few magical weapons you have on hand to overcome its DR, summoning a flying creature to provide flanking, using repeat channels to keep as many people as possible up and going, etc., etc.) mean that barring some epically unlucky rolling, you are probably doing better than you think.
My prediction as GM is that you will end this fight both winning and with enough resources left to you to continue on with your adventures in Brinewall Castle, especially if you are willing to treat healing potions and scrolls as objects that can be used as needed.
(Now watch as the PC's roll 17 natural 1's in one round and I am forced to say, "But, but ... I didn't think that would happen!")
Blessed are the cheesemakers.
not really intimidating... sigh.
oh well.
i've got one more spell up my sleeve if we're still alive after this round ;) Kalimac, I'm gonna need to borrow Attatoq for about 6 or 7 seconds... magic fang! :P
Without giving too much away before everyone has posted ... with what Lio just did, NO ONE IS GOING TO PARTICULARLY CARE that she didn't *look* like a badass doing it ...
not really intimidating... sigh.
oh well.
i've got one more spell up my sleeve if we're still alive after this round ;) Kalimac, I'm gonna need to borrow Attatoq for about 6 or 7 seconds... magic fang! :P
If it comes to that, Attatoq with Magic Fang will be teh awesome!
Oh for F&%@'s sake. Hrunndalf is apparently an Oracle of Wind. |:(
It's not that I had a particular prediction as to how this fight would end.
But ... that was not one of the ways I foresaw this ending.
Incidentally, following that combat, I am now getting advertisements in Urdu on my gmail page.
Claimable items:
Medium half-plate armor (300 gp)
Medium masterwork heavy steel shield (85 gp)
Four medium heavy crossbows (100 gp)
40 medium crossbow bolts (2 gp)
10 flasks of alchemist’s fire (100 gp)
Circlet of persuasion (2250 gp)
Wand of Scorching Ray, 30 charges (1350 gp)
medium +1 light fortification light steel shield bearing the image of Castle Brinewall (2079.5 gp)
medium +1 returning starknife (4162 gp)
medium +1 cold iron morningstar (2158 gp)
pearl of power, 1st level (500 gp)
ring of the ram with 10 charges remaining (860 gp)
wayfinder (250 gp)
hideous stone statuette of Pazuzu that it grants a +4 enhancement bonus to the carrier’s Charisma score (16,000 gp)
darkwood-and-silver disc decorated with an intricate etching of Brinewall under the midnight moon (0 gp)
800 gp in jewelry and gems, they are stylish and fashionable and go great with your eyes, hair, and clothes, as do all the other items, seriously you don't need to ask, OK maybe except for the statuette of Pazuzu, fine (800 gp)
Unclaimable:
1320 gp
Circlet of persuasion (2250 gp)
Wand of Scorching Ray, 30 charges (1350 gp)
Mel please, wand before circlet.
Sadly as much as i would love Mel to have a 21 charisma... she won't carry a statue of Pazuzu. :)
I'd like to lay a claim on the shield. The medium +1 light fortification light steel shield bearing the image of Castle Brinewall.
(sorry Kalimac, but at some point, following some pitched battle against small foes, you will be ROLLING in it, I tells ya)
Kelda would be interested in the masterwork heavy steel shield and 80 gp worth of jewelry and gems as her share of fabled treasure, or else 160 gp in jewelry and gems if someone else wants the shield. All PC claims will take precedence over hers if there is a conflict.
What are we supposed to use? Harsh language?
Just to follow up on this ...
Sometimes, harsh language works.
(Well, OK, harsh language followed up by an explosive arrow in the eye. But the harsh language helped.)
Also? The atheist cleric would be FINE with toting around a blasphemous statue. Especially one that would give him 2 more channels per day.
Also? The atheist cleric would be FINE with toting around a blasphemous statue. Especially one that would give him 2 more channels per day.
...then he should put a claim on it, says a frequent recipient of his healing channels.
I like the idea of apportioning the alchemist's fire, especially given that it was the alchemist who suggested it.
Rhost will put in a claim on the returning starknife. Is he the best person to have this weapon? Absolutely not. Is it a ranged weapon that he is unlikely to lose or break? Yes.
And also a claim on the disc so that we (as a party) keep it.
Hey, Mel has her grubby little hands on that disk and is keeping it.
Which would be a way of saying, Mel would like to claim the 0 gp disk, which she thinks opens a vault. :)
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Four medium heavy crossbows (100 gp)
40 medium crossbow bolts (2 gp)
Want: One crossbow. Twenty bolts.
10 flasks of alchemist’s fire (100 gp) - like it as a party split. ten of them. ten of us. handy.
wayfinder (250 gp) - WANT
hideous stone statuette of Pazuzu - DO. NOT. WANT ... just holding the unholy symbol in a thick cloth has creeped Hrithik out. Now that we've killed actual spawn of a Demon Lord ... no, not drawing His direct interest on the daily with an enchanted unholy item, thanks!
darkwood-and-silver disc decorated with an intricate etching of Brinewall under the midnight moon (0 gp) - WANT. Hrithik has already collected notes and letters and evidence from the Office, and would like to amass evidence of All Things Brinewall ...
That said, Hrithik would like *access* to the Brinewall Shield. Not the shield itself, but access to the art and inlay and details of it. If Kelda takes it, he wants the right to make plaster impressions and sketches and so forth before she splits from the group
800 gp in jewelry and gems (800 gp) - 200 gp worth wanted. enough for 2 outfits
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That said, Hrithik would like *access* to the Brinewall Shield. Not the shield itself, but access to the art and inlay and details of it. If Kelda takes it, he wants the right to make plaster impressions and sketches and so forth before she splits from the group
Sorry ... suddenly I realize that Kelda, despite her interest in "the Brinewall treasure", is not actually asking for the Brinewall shield, but rather an economical masterwork shield instead. Gotta say: she's very modest in her desires for someone willing to tank and soak up 50 zillion hps of damage from the Boss Fight for us.
That said, put Hrithik down for a *very small* claim on the Brinewall shield, if only so that it stays party-accessible for now. If anyone else wants it to actually, you know, use it, it's theirs. Hrithik just wants access to it for historical purposes.
Myri, although taking a couple envious glances, will make no claims this time.
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hideous stone statuette of Pazuzu that it grants a +4 enhancement bonus to the carrier’s Charisma score (16,000 gp)
All the other items are listed as costing the character the "sale for cash" value: half market price. Market price for +4 stat is usually 16,000gp. Is the hideous statuette so awesomely inherently valuable (made entirely of gold-pressed latinum?) that it has a market price of 32k, or is the 16k cost-to-us a typo, and it should only be market price of 16k and therefore "sale for cash" value of 8k instead?
It doesn't take up any slots, this generally doubles the cost.
Kalimac could go for either the ring of the ram or the circlet of persuasion. Or both. He may have to arm-wrestle Mel for the circlet.
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It doesn't take up any slots, this generally doubles the cost.
Good point! I'd been thinking of it as being pretty small and having to be worn as jewelry and using up some body slot or having to be actively "carried" in hand, but you're right: it could be bigger than that, and/or work more like an ioun stone or figurine of wondrous power. Seriously nice item, in that case.
So clarification would then be two separate questions:
- Is this a hefty several-pounds statuette or a tiny jewelry-level statuette?
- Regardless of that, can the owner keep it in their pack/pouch (16k sell value), or would the owner need to hold it or use a body slot for it (8k sell value)? (Default would be the former, granting the AP writers credit for knowing their business.)
That said, put Hrithik down for a *very small* claim on the Brinewall shield, if only so that it stays party-accessible for now. If anyone else wants it to actually, you know, use it, it's theirs. Hrithik just wants access to it for historical purposes.
Alaric expressed interest in the shield. And in using it for its intended purpose (keeping him from getting shanked).
...then he should put a claim on it, says a frequent recipient of his healing channels.
Right you are. Can't rail against passive aggressive behavior when I'm guilty of it. The heretic priest, Mr. Alaric "Sexypants" Graff will lay claim on the blasphemous statue of Captain Howdy.
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On an unrelated note, if the flextime conversation with Kelda continues, you may wish to make an intelligence check to recall the precise terms of the eventual deal you offered Buttersnips and got her to say "yes" to.
There's a short version and a seriously-long-ass version :)
Buttersnips agreed "to be our partner" (to wipe the cult out) and "stay here quietly" (to not help the cult in any way) and "cause further harm to no one" (ever) in making her art, in return for free and full reign of the castle and all the attacked-us-and-died bodies in it (once we are done wiping the cult out).
Hrithik is aware that Buttersnips may try to disagree about the parenthetical parts. Honestly, he completely expects her to do so. But if she tries to go there, she was the one who volunteered and offered up "whatever you want" in agreeing to the deal ... the Letter of the Deal will not go well for her if she tries to take it there, because he was reared and trained in Asmodean Cheliax.
Hrithik has no plan to hold Buttersnips to a vicious reading of the Letter of the Deal (like say, taking every trophy she's ever made while holding her to a vow of silence and demanding she be sealed into that room for eternity), but he does plan to hold her to the Obvious Spirit of the Deal, as laid out in the communications leading up to the agreement. If she tries to play "Letter of the Deal" with him, he will tear her position apart as much as his pose of Chelish nobleman with the upper hand after negotiations would.
The (parenthetical) Spirit of the Deal, in not hindering us from wiping the cult out, would include letting us remove the cult's effects on the area before we depart - destroying unholy symbols in "her" castle, removing cult treasure from "her" territory, wiping cult Pazuzu paintings off "her" cave walls, and respectfully burying cult victims in "her" domain ... which would include all the body parts of intelligent creatures that the cult gave to her. She agreed to partner with us, and added "whatever you want" all on her own, so Hrithik intends to hold her to the spirit of that partnering: to retrieve the Brinewall Legacy and wipe out the cult harboring it. Hrithik will say as much to Kelda once this goes back to in-character.
Hrithik's understanding is that Buttersnips agreed to the absolute worst kind of contract to enter into with a Chelishman raised to a code of Asmodean Legalism. She agreed to an undocumented, very open-ended verbal contract, and agreed to it with the following words:
”Then yes! Fine! Yes! I agree! Whatever you want!"
Which makes the Final Deal: What Hrithik said + whatever Hrithik wants within the context of what was said.
"I want you to say you will be our partner, stay here quietly, and harm no one else in the pursuit of your art. The challenge of procurement will make your final works even greater, and we will know to check. In return, the castle and the remains of those who attack us are yours, as they must be when we depart."
"Partner" and "stay here quietly" and "harm" and "no one else" are entirely lacking in qualifiers, other than her supplemental "whatever you want". Such as, say, duration for "stay here quietly" or specific definitions as to what counts as "harm" or as "no one". If Buttersnips starts going to places of Bad Faith in being our partner in annihilating the Pazuzu Cult, or in attempting to claim the entirety of the castle's contents as part of "the castle ... (is) yours", it could be pointed out that she agreed to quietly stay in that room until she starves to death, or that quietly could be interpreted to mean near-silently, and that she therefore has already put herself into Breach of Contract. (Hrithik absolutely does not plan to go here on his own ... but Hrithik was raised in a place where This Is Where This Goes if bad faith counterclaims begin radiating from Buttersnips).
As for how Hrithik was interpreting "partner", the context was the previous two communications:
"... our band needs to responsibly dispose of the bodies of the demon cultists that we will be swarmed by. Ideally, we should do so with someone responsible from the area. Even more ideally, in a way that makes the point to others not to attack human castles and genocide entire villages, and allows us to give a proper burial to those comprising your current menagerie [...] a corby chimera museum from handing the bodies to you would be a win for all. That has to have a high value to you. Can we get everything and everyone here, and your non-interference, in exchange for those who die attacking us?"
Buttersnips didn't specifically agree to that, but the final deal definitely includes "partnering" and "stay here quietly" and Buttersnips getting the bodies of those attacking the party, so it can be argued that partnering, in spirit, includes much of this first communication. (Final deal also includes Buttersnips getting free rule of the castle and possibly not having to give us every single statue she has already made, so hey, extra upside!)
Hrithik won't be a stickler for taking her entire inventory (because really, how would we even manage to carry it all?). But he will be a stickler for "partner", given the communication that immediately followed:
"Certainly you would appreciate the chance to clear out old inventory and move into more spacious accommodations? When else will such an opportunity to expand into cheap real estate arise again? Why not agree and let us bow and part as partners?"
In saying yes to partnering, saying "whatever you want", and receiving Hrithik's bow, Hrithik feels that Buttersnips was "agreeing" in spirit to the above: clear out (at least some) statue inventory in return for cheap real estate (and even more fresh bodies).
Since "partner" in the Final Deal is undefined beyond "whatever you want" and the implied "partner in wiping out Kikonu and the Pazuzu Cult" ... Hrithik expects to hold her to this spirit, at least where formerly-sapient inventory is concerned. If she wants to argue that she didn't agree to clean out her entire inventory, Hrithik won't argue the point as far as animal-only statuary is concerned. But in return for the entire castle grounds and a huge pile of fresh bodies to work on, Buttersnips agreed to be our willing partner in completely wiping out Nindinzego's cult. That, in spirit, includes removing all traces of the cult's physical presence and burying all parts of the cult's intelligent and self-aware victims as those victims would wish, to the best of everyone's ability to determine.
If she wants to angrily argue for the Letter of the Deal rather than the Spirit of it, she can argue the point with Kelda and Hrithik ... but the Letter of the Deal, as she agreed to it, probably wouldn't be a fun place for her to go, in Hrithik's estimation.
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Alaric expressed interest in the shield. And in using it for its intended purpose (keeping him from getting shanked).
Jeez. I am seriously blind today. Somehow I read "interest in the shield" as interest in the first-listed masterwork one, and yet somehow Kelda's interest in the masterwork shield read as continued interest in "the Brinewall treasure". Couldn't be more wrong if I tried.
Real interest that keeps it in the party means no Brinewall-shield claim from Hrithik. He only wants historical access.
Real interest that keeps it in the party means no Brinewall-shield claim from Hrithik. He only wants historical access.
Yeah, that should be no problem. Unless Hrithik gets it in his head to do a historical treatise in the middle of combat.