Optimal Familiars


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So this is slightly off topic but; when you p/up the feat Improved Familiar, can you just trade up your familiar every level for something better?

Ex: start off with a wizard 1 that takes an owl. At level 6 he takes Imp Familiar and gets a small air elemental...that looks like an owl. Could he then next level trade up to a dust mephit that takes on the appearance of a small humanoid with owl's wings, huge eyes and a beak?


Appearances should be irrelevant, as long as you don't claim special abilities for your familiar because of them.

The rules are silent about how replacing a familiar works. But as long as you pay the price for your new one, you should be able to get it. Your GM may not wish to accommodate such a fickle PC though, who'd cast aside bonded creatures so callously.


Noir le Lotus wrote:
It's not explicity stated because in the game, effect means when you are targeted by a spell or special ability.

I don't know of any place where it's defined that way in the rules - if you do, I would appreciate a citation.

As a counterpoint, the text of Racial Heritage: "You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on." The phrasing makes clear that "taking traits and feats" is an example of an effect.


Optimal familiars grant initiative, have defensive abilities, have good utility abilities, and/or can umd.


VRMH wrote:

Appearances should be irrelevant, as long as you don't claim special abilities for your familiar because of them.

The rules are silent about how replacing a familiar works. But as long as you pay the price for your new one, you should be able to get it. Your GM may not wish to accommodate such a fickle PC though, who'd cast aside bonded creatures so callously.

Oh no, you see: I'm the GM. What I hate in my games is the wizard who can't WAIT to get improved familiar and dumps his old animal for a shiny new toy, so I'm thinking of houseruling: ImprovING Familiar.

In other words when they pay their gold what they're doing is paying for an "enhancement" to their existing familiar. To me looks ARE important and I want the classic feel of storybook wizards who still have some black cat or owl on their shoulder. So...

The wizard/witch takes the feat, pays their gold, and BAM: their familar is morphed into a version of the creature they're getting.

Grand Lodge

What if your idea of "storybook wizard" is not the flavor for the player's concept that they want.

Is your taste in a class's flavor more important then the fun of your players?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

What if your idea of "storybook wizard" is not the flavor for the player's concept that they want.

Is your taste in a class's flavor more important then the fun of your players?

BBT, you're absolutely right. This is cooperative storytelling after all. If this isn't the way the players want to go I won't force them. However in the spirit of cooperation, I propse this houserule as my compromise. You see, I'm toying with the idea of no improved familiars at all this campaign, but I posted my comments in hopes of avoiding such an ultimatum.

The way I see it they still get something that carries all the powers and abilities they want, I get my flavor. If they seriously want an imp or azata on their shoulder I'm not saying no, I just would get a little bruised is all. Its all good.

Grand Lodge

Now that's a good DM response.

Forcing their preferred flavor upon players is a pet peeve of mine with some DMs.


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Cooperative storytelling at its best:

Player 1: What does your compsognathus thing look like?

Player 2: It looks like a +4 next to my initiative modifier.


Seriously, it's like they inversely correlated the usefulness of a familiar's bonus with the coolness of the animal.

Seriously, just look at the two talking bird options:

Ravens are kickass and awesome, but get a terrible/worthless +3 to Appraise.

Thrushes are cute, sure, but a pretty solid "eh," and they get +3 to one of the best skills in the game (probably 3rd after Perception and UMD), Diplomacy.


Mark Hoover wrote:

So this is slightly off topic but; when you p/up the feat Improved Familiar, can you just trade up your familiar every level for something better?

Ex: start off with a wizard 1 that takes an owl. At level 6 he takes Imp Familiar and gets a small air elemental...that looks like an owl. Could he then next level trade up to a dust mephit that takes on the appearance of a small humanoid with owl's wings, huge eyes and a beak?

Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook Frequently Asked Questions wrote:

Sorcerer/Wizard: Can I dismiss my familiar so I may select a new familiar?

This isn't addressed in the rules anywhere, but yes, you should be able to dismiss a familiar if you want to select a new one. However, you must still wait 1 week and pay 200 gp for the 8-hour ritual. Dismissing a familiar is ending a link between your soul and it, so it should probably take about an hour.

The exception to the above is if you take the Improved Familiar feat, which allows you to immediately replace your familiar with the new familiar, at no cost or time required (it is assumed this occurs during whatever preparations you make while leveling up).

Once dismissed, an animal familiar is just a normal animal of its type (a special familiar from the Improved Familiar feat reverts to a normal creature of its type). Whether or not it wants to remain with you is up to your GM and probably based on how you treated the creature while it was your familiar.

—Sean K Reynolds, 07/14/11

as far as keeping the same familiar and just saying it gets upgraded, that's up to your GM (but not allowed in PFS)


I always wanted to give a lyrakien familiar a staff of (quickened?) magic missiles that looks like a tiny tommy gun.


i gave mine a muleback cord and a heavyload belt so she could carry 75 lbs as a light load and therefore carry my halfling around :)


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asthyril wrote:
i gave mine a muleback cord and a heavyload belt so she could carry 75 lbs as a light load and therefore carry my halfling around :)

Reminds me of the fat halfling wizard with an earth elemental familiar in the shape of an easy chair. The familiar carried the halfling everywhere.


asthyril wrote:
as far as keeping the same familiar and just saying it gets upgraded, that's up to your GM (but not allowed in PFS)

well, i don't see why you can't 'dismiss' your familiar, but re-summon the exact same dude, he just 'mysteriously' has a template or has changed creature type while being the same entity. otherwise, what happens to the familiar after you dismiss it is entirely outside of the rules (even when it doesn't return), so saying it comes back as a new creature isn't CONFLICTING with anything in the rules.


Quandary wrote:
asthyril wrote:
as far as keeping the same familiar and just saying it gets upgraded, that's up to your GM (but not allowed in PFS)
well, i don't see why you can't 'dismiss' your familiar, but re-summon the exact same dude, he just 'mysteriously' has a template or has changed creature type while being the same entity. otherwise, what happens to the familiar after you dismiss it is entirely outside of the rules (even when it doesn't return), so saying it comes back as a new creature isn't CONFLICTING with anything in the rules.

that's why i said it is up to the GM, i don't think any GM would have an issue with that, except that in PFS you are specifically banned from 're-skinning' familiars/animal companions, and unless you get rid of your familiar for the EXACT same type of familiar, it will be a different creature entirely.


mplindustries wrote:

Seriously, it's like they inversely correlated the usefulness of a familiar's bonus with the coolness of the animal.

Seriously, just look at the two talking bird options:

Ravens are kickass and awesome, but get a terrible/worthless +3 to Appraise.

Thrushes are cute, sure, but a pretty solid "eh," and they get +3 to one of the best skills in the game (probably 3rd after Perception and UMD), Diplomacy.

I used to always pick raven.

But now the little pterosaur is awesome.
Flight, Better Dex/AC, and a sweet little dive bomb attack to deliver spells w/out provoking.
The +2 to initiative is freaking gravy

Can't talk to others but can talk to you at 5th.


I personally am a big fan of the Raktavarna, especially for witches.

To start with it has really good defensive traits, DR 5 and SR 17. It has constant detect magic and dark vision, which when combined with eyes of the master means you never have to cast that spell again. As a special attack it can detect thoughts (admittedly at low dc but nothing stopping you from trying to break into their mind again). It also has constant comprehend language.

On top of all of that are its rockstar special abilities. The Raktavarna can turn into an item. For witches this is incredible. Unless the enemy has a reason to sunder that diamond pendant which they will probably want to loot, your spells are safe.

Then there is eyes of the master. As a standard action you can look through your familiars eyes. Given the superb stealth skills the Raktavarna has, your spell caster has suddenly become a better scout than the rogue.

The only down side is that you have to Lawful Evil, unless you are in PFS and have a specific boon that lets you be Lawful Neutral.


Mahtobedis wrote:
The only down side is that you have to Lawful Evil, unless you are in PFS and have a specific boon that lets you be Lawful Neutral.
pfsrd wrote:

Improved Familiar

This feat allows you to acquire a powerful familiar, but only when you could normally acquire a new familiar.

Prerequisites: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, sufficiently high level (see below).

Benefit: When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed here are also available to you. You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil).

Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature's type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).

It's not alignment that prevents you from having it in PFS, because LN is a perfectly acceptable alignment to have one. It's because it is not on the list of standard familiars listed for you to choose from (primarily because it is from bestiary 3, and unlike bestiary 2 which had ultimate magic expand the list to include familiars from it, bestiary 3 hasnt had that happen yet)

eg. you cannot choose faerie dragon as a familiar, even though you just need to be within 1 step of CG, which is easily allowed in pfs, but there is a season 4 mod which will give you access to one.


I would recommend that you read the entry in Bestiary 3 for the Raktavarna. Like ALL of the outsiders in Bestiary two on it very specifically states that a Lawful Evil spell caster with the improved familiar feat may take it. So if you are not Lawful Evil you can not take it because the limitations on the familiar over rule that line of improved familiar.

I have been seeing this mistake crop up a lot in this thread.

The Improved Familiar line about being within one step on both aliment axis, only applies when the Familiar in question does not have text that says otherwise.

Improved Familiar adjusts what the normal rule is, then the Familiar may or may not adjust it again to limit who may take it.

If it were not this way then there would be no reason for the Raktavarna and numerous other outsides to say X/X caster with improved familiar.


Mahtobedis wrote:

I would recommend that you read the entry in Bestiary 3 for the Raktavarna. Like ALL of the outsiders in Bestiary two on it very specifically states that a Lawful Evil spell caster with the improved familiar feat may take it. So if you are not Lawful Evil you can not take it because the limitations on the familiar over rule that line of improved familiar.

I have been seeing this mistake crop up a lot in this thread.

The Improved Familiar line about being within one step on both aliment axis, only applies when the Familiar in question does not have text that says otherwise.

Improved Familiar adjusts what the normal rule is, then the Familiar may or may not adjust it again to limit who may take it.

If it were not this way then there would be no reason for the Raktavarna and numerous other outsides to say X/X caster with improved familiar.

Lyrakien azata is also an outsider, specifically says must be chaotic good spellcaster in bestiary 2.

BUT she is on the ultimate magic list for new improved familiars which does not state any changes in the feats alignment restrictions. she is an improved familiar like any other, and can be taken if your alignment is within 1 step of hers.


I really like the Arbiter for Flyby attack AND the fact it is nearly indestructible. Allows it to go deliver a touch attack and then return in the same round with very little risk.

- Gauss


Quote:
Like ALL of the outsiders in Bestiary two on it very specifically states that a Lawful Evil spell caster with the improved familiar feat may take it. So if you are not Lawful Evil you can not take it because the limitations on the familiar over rule that line of improved familiar.

OK, what do the rules for each creature actually say?

"A 7th-level lawful evil spellcaster with the Improved Familiar feat can gain a raktavarna rakshasa as a familiar. "
" A chaotic good 7th-level spellcaster can gain a lyrakien as a familiar if she has the Improved Familiar feat."

NOTE: Those are NOT 'limitations', they are positive statements of who CAN take them.
They dont' say anything about who CAN'T take them.
If you have some means of taking them (e.g. table, per 1 step alignment rule),
nothing in the creature text contradicts or over-rides that fact...

Grand Lodge

The Quasit is nice, due to it's ability to change into a wolf, and be invisible, all the time.

That's a full time mount for any small PC.

With the ability to cast Alter Self on it, you have a very versatile familiar.


In general, I am not a fan of familiars. I like Pathfinder's option for wizards to bond with an object. Actually, I'm not a fan of any animal companions/mounts/familiars/etc.

HOWEVER, IF I were going to take a familiar, I'd say bat. Flight, blindsight, nocturnal guard... useful stuff.

Grand Lodge

Quasit can be a Bat, or a Wolf, and be invisible.

Oh, and tell you what it sees through telepathy.


I like the Pseudodragon, myself. Scaling DC on sleep poison is amazing, and I can't see why dragons couldn't use a wand. Plus, he has 5' of reach on his tail, so he doesn't have to provoke to deliver my touch spells.

If I received the ok from the GM that the Silvanshee's Lay on Hands would improve, I'd take it (since my current character is in Carrion Crown), but otherwise, yeah, I'll go with my old favorite.

Grand Lodge

Imp Consular can turn into any Small or Tiny animal, as per the spell beast shape II.


Quandary wrote:

OK, what do the rules for each creature actually say?

"A 7th-level lawful evil spellcaster with the Improved Familiar feat can gain a raktavarna rakshasa as a familiar. "
" A chaotic good 7th-level spellcaster can gain a lyrakien as a familiar if she has the Improved Familiar feat."

NOTE: Those are NOT 'limitations', they are positive statements of who CAN take them.
They don't say anything about who CAN'T take them.
If you have some means of taking them (e.g. table, per 1 step alignment rule),
nothing in the creature text contradicts or over-rides that fact...

Very interesting point. I had not thought of it that way. But if they intended for anyone within one alignment step to be able to take the familiars in question, then why bother with those lines at all?

Also, I have found that the rules not saying I can't do something does not always mean that I can.


Cat familiars are the way to go!


Any love for the Cassisian angel?

I'm a fan of it for the shape-changing ability. Forms I like to choose are the small-sized winged humanoid (can use all sorts of items, even kit her out with armor and stuff if you so choose) and the dove (for scouting and looking innocuous). If your party has no other small sized character, she can use any spare small armor/weapons that your group finds, and in PFS you can legally buy items for her to use (just buy them halfling/gnome-sized). And if you roll badly on your diplomacy check, have her try later with your skill ranks. =)

Also comes with DR, a number of immunities and resistances, flight and truespeech.

Grand Lodge

Cassisian can't lift you.

An Imp transformed into a Boar has a 12 strength, and a light load of 64.5lbs. and a heavy load of 195lb.


Cassissian won't try to sell your soul…

Imps are just here to turn you toward evil and come back home with your soul in a chest.

Grand Lodge

Be an Aasimar, and your Imp can have the Celestial template.

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