No worries, Gan - Shisumo and I are in KC, so we know exactly what caused your delay. Glad to hear you made it home safely!
And yeah, a GoogleDoc wouldn't be a bad plan, Lamsfel. After awhile, I just start looking at the numbers and my eyes glaze over and I lose time and I wake up somewhere else and I am covered in blood and doesn't this happen to anyone else ohgodsomeonehelp
Yeah, I'm used to driving in the snow, but damn that was stressful. And I love how the trucks would pass me and whitewash me just to be able to go an extra 2 miles an hour.
Were you able to stay inside today I hope?
Glad you guys are safe. I'm somewhat west of you. We got enough snow to say we got snow, but it dropped over a foot west of us and then withheld its moisture as it passed over us to drop it on you.
I'll see what I can come up with for a GoogleDoc. Or steal someone's better idea from online somewhere, maybe.
Wow - I found an Excel sheet provided by a fellow Paizo lurker here that has a lot of time in its design.
I don't know that it's perfect and chatter about it has stopped since October, but it seems to do a lot and I would be hard-pressed to mimic it in a timely fashion. There was a lot of positive feedback provided to the one that created it.
I would be happy to maintain a copy of this sheet locally until/if I can get a GoogleDocs version going.
First question: What is your overall view of the caravan? Is it merely a means of travel? A means of income? Is your first concern with the safety of the caravan (i.e., defense)? Or something else?
Whadya want on yer caravan?
For me, I would like to see if we can bolster its defenses early and configure it for trade. If it brings in some money, we keep our hirelings and we can afford to improve on the caravan as we go.
Wow. That's a nice sheet. I'd try using it if possible, yeah.
He locked the macro, I think, so I can't tweak it if there are errors, but the original thread involved a fair group beating on it and giving feedback, so it's likely had most problems worked out.
I can host it on Dropbox, if that works for the team.
Final bit of selling to take care of - do we want to sell the fireworks?
If so, we have 3121 gp, 4 sp to split among the party. Less one wand of CLW, we have 2371 gp, 4 sp. I had suggested Lamsfel getting around 200 gp because he claimed the swords (or gazed longingly at them until the rest of you gave in, I'm not sure), so if everyone else gets 550 gp, he will be left with 171 gp and 4 sp, which he is totally fine with.
So that brings us to the following suggested split. All in favor, say Aye!
Callomeleth
Potion of Cure Light Wounds
Potion of Lesser Restoration
Ring of Climbing
Wand of Cure Light Wounds
550 gp
Gan
Potion of Cure Light Wounds
Potion of Lesser Restoration
Wand of Identify (19 charges)
Wand of Mending (42 charges)
550 gp
Lamsfel
Potion of Cure Light Wounds
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds
Masterwork Cold Iron Wakizashi (sells for 185 gp)
Broken Whispering Shrike (+1 wakizashi, casts shield other 1/day)
171 gp, 4 sp
Tristan
Potion of Cure Light Wounds
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds
550 gp
Tybus
Potion of Cure Light Wounds
Potion of Lesser Restoration
Masterwork chain shirt - or sell for 125 gp
Song of Sparrows (+1 katana(?))
Repaired fan with map (from Licktoad Village)
550 gp
Song of Sparrows is indeed, a +1 katana.
...
What else it might be is up to Tybus to reveal and/or take advantage of, if he chooses...
Song of Sparrows is indeed, a +1 katana.
...
What else it might be is up to Tybus to reveal and/or take advantage of, if he chooses...
I thought as much, thus the ?. I hope you are getting back to healthy, sir.
I guess I should add - if Tybus does not wish to keep the chain shirt, we could give everyone another 125 gp, but I was not sure if it was an upgrade to his current armor or not.
I'm good with that item breakdown. Shisumo, are there any scrolls or wondrous items available to be purchased in Sandpoint, or would we have to wait for a larger town?
Lamsfel, I agree about defense being priority number one. I think we should get a 4th wagon, get the feat that boosts stats, and hire two drivers (keep the two NPCs as drivers, then hire two more). The NPCs/PCs that we have that aren't hirelings should be used to fill guard, guide, scout, spellcaster, and fortune teller slots.
You have the option of buying most 1st-4th level scrolls in Sandpoint, but the town's Base Value is 1300 gp, so most wondrous items are likely out of reach other than elixirs. Any given item less than 1300 gp has a 75% chance of being available - feel free to roll your own availability chances if you want. If you want the complete breakdown, I'll get out my treasure tables and get you a list of the guaranteed-available items tomorrow.
Lamsfel, I agree about defense being priority number one. I think we should get a 4th wagon, get the feat that boosts stats, and hire two drivers (keep the two NPCs as drivers, then hire two more). The NPCs/PCs that we have that aren't hirelings should be used to fill guard, guide, scout, spellcaster, and fortune teller slots.
So I think we may be looking at a variation on what Callomeleth suggested:
Invest two stat points in Defense (our first priority); would you prefer to have the third point in Mobility or Morale? I vote for Mobility
Feat #1: Circle the Wagons (requires Defense 3 and augments AC)
Feat #2: Enhanced Caravan (? - 2 bonus stat points - where do we put them?)
Add a wagon - Covered or supply?
Add two hirelings (driver 10 gp + driver/wainwright 15 gp)?
Are we in agreement up to that point?
We are in agreement.
And yes the masterwork chain shirt is an upgrade, so I'd like to hang on to that.
We are in agreement.
And yes the masterwork chain shirt is an upgrade, so I'd like to hang on to that.
Great. I think we can consider the treasure done, then.
In addition to the randomly available items, you can find a scroll of lesser confusion, an potion of barkskin, an oil of magic weapon, a scroll of detect thoughts, a +1 light mace, a scroll of grease, a figurine of wondrous power (serpentine owl), a potion of resist energy (electricity) 10, a rod of wonder and a gem of brightness.
Aww, who wouldn't want a rod of wonder? I think we can trade in half the caravan for that; just think of the possibilities!
Somebody better carry Tybus' coin purse, I'm afraid it's not safe around him.
One thing we might look at doing in the future is dividing treasure into sixths, so that the caravan gets a share. I'm fine with the division you did for the treasure we have so far, Lamsfel.
OK, treasure is officially done, just so we can concentrate on the caravan.
For the caravan, no one has spoken against the suggestions, but there were some questions among the suggestions. Here's what I think we have for certain:
Defense 3
Mobility 2
Morale 1
Offense 1
Feat: Circle the Wagons
Feat: Enhanced Caravan
Four wagons, four hirelings (3 drivers @ 10 each gp, 1 driver/wainwright @ 15 gp), four NPCs, five heroes
Minimally, we fill
Four driver positions - done
One fortune-teller - done
Four heroes - done
-———
Questions
•Where do we put the two stat points from Enhanced Caravan?
••I would like to consider Mobility and Offense.
•What type of wagon will number four be?
••Covered would allow us to take passengers;
••Supply would allow us to take extra supplies and merchandise
•What roles should we fill?
••I think this is very situational, so what situations might we encounter?
•••Wounded in caravan vs. no wounded
•••Stopped at a town vs. stopped in the wilderness (repairs)
•••Stopped vs. in motion
•••Traveling through dangerous lands vs. safer areas
I like the idea of a guide and a scout or two scouts
Obviously, we need guards - I'm not sure we can have too many
When I get time, I will try to propose some manpower assignments for review if you don't beat me to them. Which you are welcome to do, I'm just trying to keep some forward momentum going.
Enhanced Caravan: Those sound good to me.
Wagon 4: I think we start with a supply wagon. That'll give us more ability to make money, which will let us get a covered wagon faster.
Roles (reprinting from previous page and removing passenger for now):
Sandru: driver, guard, trader, wainwright
Koya: fortune-teller, guard, healer, spellcaster (entertainer, guard, guide, healer, or scout)
Ameiko: cook, entertainer, fortune-teller, guard, spellcaster (entertainer, guard, guide, healer, or scout), trader
Shalelu: guard, scout
Bevelek: driver
Vankor: driver
Callomeleth: entertainer, fortune-teller, guard, healer, hero, spellcaster (entertainer, guard, guide, healer, or scout), trader
Gan: guard, healer, hero, spellcaster (entertainer, guard, guide, healer, or scout), trader
Lamsfel: guard, hero, scout, trader
Tristan: driver, guard, guide, hero, scout
Tybus: guard, hero, spellcaster (entertainer, guard, guide, healer, or scout)
I don't have my PDF in front of me, so I don't recall what all of these things do. But when it comes to the NPCs, I think three of the four are pretty much set for now. Koya should be the fortune-teller, Shalelu should scout, and Sandru will have to drive until we get a fourth driver. Ameiko's more flexible.
I don't have my PDF in front of me, so I don't recall what all of these things do. But when it comes to the NPCs, I think three of the four are pretty much set for now. Koya should be the fortune-teller, Shalelu should scout, and Sandru will have to drive until we get a fourth driver. Ameiko's more flexible.
I think the idea was to just go ahead and shell out the money for two more drivers (including a driver/wainwright) now, so as to free up the PCs and major NPCs for more important tasks. Sandru can do something else - most likely guard - instead.
Also, with regards to Ameiko, she's the only cook option you have, and I think Consumption is likely to be a concern. You might give that some thought.
Sounds wise. I'll look at this a bit more in depth tonight again.
Life has not been conducive to this lately.
The suggested plan was indeed to start with a driver and a driver/wainwright. The thought of a second cook to help with consumption rate was suggested and I think could be wise considering the cost to hire a cook.
Yeah, I've started a new job recently, which has cut down on the time I can post at work, or study rule subsets. So sorry if I've been appearing more out of it lately, but I really like this job.
Yep, been busy at work for me too. I think that combined with just starting out with the caravan now and needing to make these decisions is contributing to the current slow pace. For my part, I just wanted to stay that I'm still really excited for this game and the upcoming caravan journey. I'm sure things will pick up once we get the wheels rolling, so to speak.
Re: consumption--we can always have spellcasters emulate cooks to help when we need it.
Actually, the spellcaster can fill many roles, but cook is not one of them.
Oh, I see the list above for spellcaster. Hmm, I thought spellcaster could fill any role. Maybe I got confused because I was just thinking we could use spells to supplement.
You know, I have really high UMD skill. We could just buy a bunch of scrolls of goodberry, or even a wand of goodberry. That'll feed a lot of people for a lot of days for relatively cheap. Not as cheap as a cook, but if something happens we could use it in a pinch and it'd last a long time. Should we pick up some scrolls or a wand of goodberry?
Interesting idea. Looking at it from a purely economic standpoint, you would have a 750 gp item generating an average of five (2d4) meals per charge or an average of 250 meals per wand.
I don't have time to check the cost of supplies, but does a 3 gp/meal compare favorably? Depending on the rolls, it could be as high as 7.5 gp/meal or less than 2 gp/meal.
And I just picked a wand because of convenience, but scrolls ( not that there'd be that many available) could cut the cost in half.
I'm not against the idea, just throwing out what numbers I did have access to.
Checking the cost of provisions, it shows one unit of stores is 5 gp and equals 10 units of provisions. It looks like goodberry would not be the economical choice - except that it would allow us to use that capacity on the wagons to haul something other than food. I don't think it's a bad idea if we can afford it, but it might be something we try later, too.
Lamsfel doesn't have that kind of money, anyway, so for me, it's moot.
OK, we've been stalled at building this caravan for about a month. Let's see if we can bang out some decisions.
The fourth wagon should definitely be a supply wagon, since that gives us both provisions and the ability to start doing some trading. This only gives us a max travelers of 12, though, so that means Sandru will have to be driving for now. Ameiko will be cooking, Koya will be fortune-telling, and Shalelu will be scouting. Our Consumption will be 11, and Ameiko's cooking will bring that down to 9, meaning we'll almost go through a full cargo unit of food a day.
I think my role at the moment is best suited as Entertainer, so we can increase Resolve, but I can easily switch into Spellcaster to fulfill some other role if needed along the way.
Sounds good. I'll be spellcaster. I'm willing to kick in 500 of the 750 gp to get a wand of goodberry if someone else can contribute the rest (provided one is available).
How about these suggestions?
Tristan: Scout or Guard
Tybus: Spellcaster or Guard
Lamsfel: Scout or Guard
The scout does not count against consumption and can either bring +1 to Security checks or +2 to food stores.
We need to specify what role Gan will take as a spellcaster. He can basically improve any of the abilities. I'm not sure whether he can change his role on the fly or if he's held to a particular role for 24 hours like everyone else.
I suspect he'd need to switch what his spellcaster role allows him to do at the same time as the rest of us. It'd be like him changing out his spells to focus on his role in the caravan.
Why not Gan as healer and me as spellcaster? Since Callomeleth will be entertaining the caravan. Was there someone else slated for healer?
Nope, that works for me. With no one injured, though, we don't gain a benefit from a healer, right? When we have injured, the two of you can shift roles. Until then, he can be the spellcaster and you can be a guard.
Just a thought.
Let's say Tristan is a guard, Lamsfel is a scout concentrating on security, and Shalelu is a scout concentrating on hunting. How does that sound?
Well, it sounds like you've got your assignment roster worked out. So do you have anything else to buy for the caravan besides the extra wagon? If it matters (and I suspect it does), Sandru expects the trip to Brinewall to take two to three weeks. For the first half of the trip or so, you'll hit a town or village big enough to trade in every couple of days (Galduria, Wolf's Ear, Ravenmoor and Roderic's Cove, respectively), but the last half is largely uninhabited, so there won't be much to work with once you enter the Velashu Uplands north of Riddleport.
If we've got several villages along the way, then picking up trade goods is definitely the way to go. That'll get us some quick cash! This is probably the last thing we need to do - what's our Cargo Capacity right now? I'm currently thinking it should be 50% stores, 25% repair materials and 25% trade goods. Thoughts?
Sounds good--shall we get this caravan moving before Gan dies of old age? ;-)
Sounds good. I will try to get into that caravan spreadsheet and see what our capacity is tomorrow. Sorry, I've been posting from whatever system was available - and it hasn't been the one with the information I needed for this thread for a week.
No worries--I've been really busy here too. Not too much longer until I get a lot of time off.
I was also just trying to check up on everyone, I wasn't trying to be so passive/aggressive. Stupid Internet and it's inability to convey tone, hehe.
Well, we have been stalled at doing this for over a month now. It's like we're making important decisions about a subsystem none of us have ever used and are likely to be dealing with the repercussions of these choices for the remainder of the game or something!
OK, I don't have access to the spreadsheet still, but here's the results of some crunching and reviewing. Here's hoping I didn't overlook something again - but the DM's pretty good at catching my errors, so I'm sure to leave him something for his personal satisfaction. ;-)
A caravan consisting of a covered wagon, a fortune-teller's wagon, and two supply wagons has 90 hp, can carry 12 travelers and 28 units of cargo, and has a base consumption of 5.
Our list of travelers includes Sandru (driver), Koya (fortune-teller), Ameiko (cook), Shalelu (scout - hunting), Bevelek (driver), Vankor (driver), Unnamed hireling (driver/wainwright), Gan (spellcaster - guard/guide/scout/healer/entertainer), Tybus (spellcaster - guard), Callomeleth (spellcaster - entertainer), Tomodachi (animal - pet), Lamsfel (scout - security), Tristan (guard) and brings another 13 consumption for a total of 18.
Available passenger space is taken unless we count a rider of Tomodachi as not needing a seat on a wagon, then we have room for another traveler. (I suggest a driver, making Sandru a guard, and make Tristan another hunting scout to reduce consumption by three more points, see below.)
Consumption modifiers: Having a cook reduces the total by 2, each scout reduces it by 1 (total 2), and a hunting scout provides 2, so the actual consumption/day runs 12 in this configuration.
Offense: Base stat 2. This configuration includes two guards for a total Attack bonus of 4
Defense: Base stat 3.
Mobility: Base stat 3. This configuration includes two guards for a total of +5 to security checks vs being surprised (does the scout count here? - that would make it +6) General security checks benefit from the scout for a total bonus of +4.
Morale: Base stat 1. This configuration includes an enterainer for a bonus to Resolve checks of +2.
The proposed distribution of cargo was 50% Stores, 25% Trade Goods, 25% Repair materials. With a total available cargo of 28, each 25% would be 7 units. I think that might be a little high for Repair materials, especially since we will consume six units of stores every five days in our current configuration. While we are near trading locations, how about 3 units of repair materials (cost: 75 gp), at least 4 days of stores (Consumption 48, 5 units of stores; if we get down to the last unit of stores, the bonus from the cook doesn't apply, so it's probably an even 50 consumption for five days; let's make this the proposed 25% of 7 units) which would cost 35 gp, and the balance (18 with this example) in units of trade goods, 180 gp in this case.
When we are in the hinterlands, more repair materials and almost all food otherwise would probably be the order of the day. 6 units of repairs (150 gp), 4 units of trade goods (40 gp), 18 units of stores (90 gp), maybe?
Our hirelings are going to cost us 10 gp/driver/month and 15 gp/driver-wainwright/month. Original configuration would cost us 35 gp to leave Sandpoint. Add 10 gp to that if Tybus can ride Tomodachi rather than one of the wagons and we reallocate personnel accordingly.
How does that sound?
Within the scope of the caravan rules, traveler capacity is more than just a seat on the wood - it's space to carry gear, sleeping space, etc., so I don't believe having an extra mount can be used to "negate" Tybus as a traveler. On the other hand, Tomodachi doesn't take up Consumption either, so...
Also, you've come nowhere near even using up Ameiko's initial 2K gp investment. Do you want to look at any wagon upgrades?
OK, so the travelers is 12 rather than 13 and that's the limit our wagons can carry.
What did you think about the effect of the scout on security checks vs being surprised?
I did not look at the cost of the new wagon (300 gp). Crazy idea - what if we added two supply wagons? We would have the necessary seating to hire the extra driver and Sandru could take on the guard role, we would have amazing capacity for trade goods and food stores, etc.
I only mention it if we are that far below the initial investment.
300 gp New supply wagon
75 gp Cargo - repair units
35 gp Cargo - stores units
180 gp Cargo - trade goods units
35 gp Wages - first month
------
625 gp What did I miss?
Gan's idea for goodberry could potentially be funded from Ameiko's original investment. I think we might use that as an emergency backup rather than a normal means of feeding the group, though. Just a thought.
I have the spreadsheet today, so I will try plugging in last night's ideas and see what it says.
I agree that we should do more trade goods and less stores when we're closer to civilization and more stores when farther from towns. I also agree that if we have funds to spare, Goodberry would be good as a backup. I can kick in 500 towards the 750 required if one is available.
As far as other upgrades, I think we should eventually get enhanced undercarriage, but that is 500 gp per wagon so we'll have to save up some money for it.
I think cold-weather gear is a no brainer--200 gp to never get penalties for traveling in cold environments. I think we should definitely get that, and I think we should get Campsite Traps too. It's 1000 gp, but the fact that the cold-weather gear and campsite traps provide bonuses forever when they are only a one-time cost (at least as I read things) make them good investments, IMO.
The spreadsheet pointed out some bonuses that I overlooked for our scores, but in general, the things we have looked at as concerns appear to be on-target.
Enhanced undercarriage can be purchased for one wagon at a time, which would likely be the best way to handle it. You just don't get the bonus until they are all upgraded. Shisumo, do I have that right?
An additional supply wagon would cost 310 gp (including driver) and provide for another ten cargo units.
Cold-weather gear is a good investment, but it might not be necessary for the initial outfitting. Does it have to be purchased per wagon or once per caravan? The spreadsheet indicates the former, but a quick search did not corroborate when I looked in the guide.
Campsite Traps is more likely to have an immediate benefit, I would prioritize that investment.
Keep in mind these upgrades all cost cargo units, too.
It does indeed look like you could purchase the undercarriages one at a time, and just get the benefit when they are all upgraded.
Cold weather gear appears to only require a single purchase for the entire caravan.
Hope you're not waiting on me. I'm good to go, provided I buy a military saddle for Tomodachi. I have no further insight into the caravan. Looks good to me.