I don't know if anyone is going to agree here, but I think that looks-wise, pathfinder absolutely butchered gnomes. The wacky green and purple skin tones and crazy hair just do nothing for me and I think the gnome's picture in the Races section of the PhB almost looks like a joke.
As characters, MY gnomes have always been brooding and sinister little fellows- and while this was not really your typical gnome lore wise, I could always take comfort in their dignified, NORMAL skin and hair. To me, they were basically smaller, more neurotic and magical humans. What I see now irks me. Sure, I still make gnomes and imagine them in a D&D flavor, but the gnome as presented in the book is a freaking fairy.
Anyone agree or disagree?
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I don't know if anyone is going to agree here, but I think that looks-wise, pathfinder absolutely butchered gnomes. The wacky green and purple skin tones and crazy hair just do nothing for me and I think the gnome's picture in the Races section of the PhB almost looks like a joke.
As characters, MY gnomes have always been brooding and sinister little fellows- and while this was not really your typical gnome lore wise, I could always take comfort in their dignified, NORMAL skin and hair. To me, they were basically smaller, more neurotic and magical humans. What I see now irks me. Sure, I still make gnomes and imagine them in a D&D flavor, but the gnome as presented in the book is a freaking fairy.
Anyone agree or disagree?
Gnomes in Pathfinder are Fey-based, a shift from the previous RPGs. What you describe is more of what a halfling is, a small human looking person. 1st Edition Dungeons and Dragons had them as small and human-like, with a magical nature. I personally like the Golarion take on gnomes. They are part of my co-favorite races (other being Kobolds)
Are kobolds considered inteligent in Golarion?
Pathfinder Gnomes are fantastic really, the colors, being Fey-based and the whole bleaching thing. Simply fantastic.
Sadly the cool rework stopped with the gnome, I really wish they had did something, anything to make halflings halfway interesting.
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While I too like the Golarion Gnomes, the fey based plot elements and flavor, ultimately when I design my gnomes mostly they are smaller more capricious dwarves. I LIKED in AD&D 2E when my gnome also got stone cunning, I LIKD when they weren't tricksy but were clever (there is a huge difference IMHO) and I LIKED the various different gnomes...forest gnomes, deep gnomes, etc.
Still, this is a new imagining for them, and its darned awesome in my book. Some of my friends have taken it to heart, and play more like what a Kender would be, and thats OK too, but not quite what I had in mind.
Gnomes are fine and mostly they've ever been like this in basic 3E.
We still have deep gnomes (Svirfneblin) and we have the Spriggans and Derro as well.
For sophisticated gnomes looking like humans you should try to look at gnomes in Eberron or Ravenloft. Aside from that where's the problem with refluffing anything to suit your purposes?
You could still play a dark, brooding gnome with regular skin tones. I don't think anything in pathfinder prevents you from using your concept again.
I will now detail my experience of suffering in extend inverted haiku for 12 hours. You shall know the utter torment of my soul and the depths I have sunk to in sub-urban upper middle class America. Life is suffering for I am Emognome!
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I really like the way Paizo did gnomes and didn't just write them off as too dwarf like or as invading elf "nature loving" territory. Actually it was one of the things that told me "Paizo gets this game."
Gnomes have always had an odd place in D&D being mostly kin to Dwarves but nicer and funnier. Over time this prankster part took more and more focus, to a point where they where almost caricatures of a race. In one masterful stroke Paizo not only corrected this but also opened up a base "fey" like race that isn't just another "small person".
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I don't know if anyone is going to agree here, but I think that looks-wise, pathfinder absolutely butchered gnomes.
Nay. They've been delivered from being dead boring.
The wacky green and purple skin tones and crazy hair just do nothing for me and I think the gnome's picture in the Races section of the PhB almost looks like a joke.
Note: No PHB in Pathfinder.
And do you know what the gnomes think of you?
Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring!
The few, drab, pale hair colours humans have - and their skin-tones are even less. They're mainly there to insult and oppress each other. It's an outward sign of their inward stagnation. They embody what's wrong with this world.
As characters, MY gnomes have always been brooding and sinister little fellows
You know I *have* to say this, don't you?
"Go cry emo gnome!"
Pathfinder gnomes simply aren't WoD gnomes. :P
I could always take comfort in their dignified, NORMAL skin and hair.
But gnomes aren't normal. And what you consider dignified, they couldn't care less about.
Halflings are your best bet if you want boring humans but small.
the gnome as presented in the book is a freaking fairy.
Not any more.
:) A lot of people who play pathfinder and post on the forum REALLY like the spin on PF gnomes. This post looks like very very dry flame bait. :)
No! Just because he has a weird user name and his first (well, second) post attacks something that is really well-liked?
You're very paranoid.
Are kobolds considered inteligent in Golarion?Very much so.
Also, Pathfinder gnomes are my absolute favorite take on the race. Even more than Half-Life's Gnome Chompski.
Midnight had great (pun ... ah, to hell with it) gnomes, too.
As characters, MY gnomes have always been brooding and sinister little fellows- and while this was not really your typical gnome lore wise, I could always take comfort in their dignified, NORMAL skin and hair. To me, they were basically smaller, more neurotic and magical humans. What I see now irks me. Sure, I still make gnomes and imagine them in a D&D flavor, but the gnome as presented in the book is a freaking fairy.
Anyone agree or disagree?
What you're describing sounds more like a halfling.
In the Pathfinder Campaign Setting flavor, gnomes are descended from fey, so still exhibit some "fairy-like" visual characteristics. They don't really age as long as they're experiencing new things, but once they stagnate they undergo "The Bleaching" where their hair turns white and they begin aging, and their whole demeanor changes.
For a twist, play a bright blue-haired gnome with large sky-blue eyes who otherwise acts like she's a melancholy goth. Gnomes are effectively ageless as long as they're trying new things, so maybe she's in her goth phase and revels in the way people respond to her gothiness, bright blue hair and all. She doesn't dye her hair, but she does paint her lips coal-black, and wears eye make-up in the Osirion style, but she's NG and opposes the creation of undead, and probably worships a good-aligned deity like Sarenrae. She's all about dichotomy.
But, more to your question, I like the way Pathfinder gnomes are portrayed. I think it's a refreshing change after the "Forgotten Folk" of Forgotten Realms and the standard 3e gnomes. Seriously, you know a race isn't popular in play when their racial nickname is "The Forgotten Folk." But then again the campaign setting was The Forgotten Realms and it was the flagship campaign. Maybe humans should have been The Forgotten Folk in the setting.
halflings are not boring, just wanted to point that out.
i personally love what pathfinder did with gnomes, before pathfinder (and to a lesser extent 4th edition) they always seemed to be either short dwarvish elves or odd skinnier dwarves, or they were obsessive compulsive inventors
what golarion has done is come up with a reason why gnomes are so odd and sometimes obsessive compulsive, the bleaching gives reason for their manic desire to experience new things.
i highly recommend reading the side bar in the first world article in sound of a thousand screams (ap 36) as it goes into greater understanding of the origins of gnomes and a possible cause for the bleaching (a kind of allergic reaction to having a soul (original denizens of the first world don't have souls).
in summary pathfinder gnomes are in fact scientifically better then any other gnome. their supposed fairy-ness only makes them better.
if you want a goth gnome go ahead, your character, not mine. i'll stick with the fairy gnomes thank you.
I have to agree with the OP in that I preferred D&D gnomes.
I imagined them a bit more like grand-parents, good hearted, wrinkly, big nose, funny even in the most dire circumstances (because they have seen worse) and such.
I imagined them with big family ties and a great gift for economy and the founders of banks. Where dwarfs like to hort, gnomes now how to use money.
Therefor I offer gnomes a +2 to int instead of cha in my games.
Same thing is for goblins, the 3.5 ones seemed plausible as PC's, the PF ones seem to be insane children. However there I love both versions.
However, races are a done deal. Just houserule what you like.
halflings are not boring, just wanted to point that out.
But they're really good at appearing boring whenever humans are around. Social camouflage.
i personally love what pathfinder did with gnomes, before pathfinder (and to a lesser extent 4th edition) they always seemed to be either short dwarvish elves or odd skinnier dwarves
They didn't really have an identity in 3e.
Okay okay, this is a post about gnomes. You will NEVER sell me on halflings.
I'm starting to appreciate some of the stylistic differences with gnomes but I can never appreciate a race who's whole advantage is being child like and silly and cute and sort of trickster-ish.
Only place I ever saw halflings as anything other then the "here because we need hobbits" was in darksun.
Gnomes are always in a fear of bleaching, they try to have fun and be happy because as long as they do they never age. But lock one away or if life becomes boring they start to fade.
I also love the concept of collecting items. I had a gnome in a pbp here that collected Knots, she didn't really care what the knot happened to be holding either.
Sooooooooo much fun.
Only place I ever saw halflings as anything other then the "here because we need hobbits" was in darksun.
Gnomes are always in a fear of bleaching, they try to have fun and be happy because as long as they do they never age. But lock one away or if life becomes boring they start to fade.
I also love the concept of collecting items. I had a gnome in a pbp here that collected Knots, she didn't really care what the knot happened to be holding either.
Sooooooooo much fun.
All thru AD&D second and 3.x I never saw the point to gnomes. Forgot about them often. Pathfinder brought them to life for me.
Halflings. I sure hope if Pathfinder ever does a Island hopping or Sea based campaign, they continue the halfling dominance of the seaways. I had written up a halfling navy long ago, then read Webber's BloodyHand series and thought WOW others think like me. Then saw Pathfinder do the same years later. But yes, other than as doemestic servants, sailors, or slow running thieves, there isn't much that distinguishes the halfling race from being leftovers.
Greg
Okay okay, this is a post about gnomes. You will NEVER sell me on halflings.
I'm starting to appreciate some of the stylistic differences with gnomes but I can never appreciate a race who's whole advantage is being child like and silly and cute and sort of trickster-ish.
Quoting a few lines from Gnomes of Golarion: While this seeming innocence can be endearing, that isn't always the case; the innocent cruelty of a child burning ants or tormenting small animals can manifest in gnomes of all ages. To the gnome mind, both the smell of an unfamiliar flower and the wet pop of a squeezed eyeball are equally novel sensations.
I wasn't a huge gnome fan at first, but that line (and much of the book) sold me. The more I thought about gnomes (the unnaturally wide smile, exaggerated features, vibrant biological coloring, and unbiased curiosity) the more I came to appreciate the race. A gnome can still be brooding, dark, and composed, but can also crack an enormous homicidal smile when interrogating prisoners.
I very much want to see an iconic character who is an evil gnome.
I second this.
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I very much want to see an iconic character who is an evil gnome.
I have a gnome barbarian in PFS that isn't evil as much as totally given to rage. He was raised in Umok until he was thrown out due to fighting. He is a Cheliax because when he reached the next town he came upon a man being whipped. In his opionon the whipping was not begin done right so he took the whip by force and laid into the man. A Cheliax in the crowd intervened with the magistrate and took him in. Although I don't know for certain but I am thinking he may change to the Shadow Lodge.
I play him as a silent gnome that talks through his teeth when he has to. He doesn't care about faction missions and really doesn't like the other characters. He goes on the missions for the experience and so he can kill more creatures. His not a friendly fellow and I doubt he will keep from going bleach before 12th level but we will see.
I think GLaDOS from Portal(2) could be a bases for a villain gnome. Always testing, doesn't like robot testers because they are predictable, and while seeming coldly logical is also quite unstable.
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I made a goth gnome for PFS that was still a pathfinder gnome, dressing in black leather with blue-black hair with glitter everywhere, worshipper of Zon-Kuthon she staves off the bleaching by experimenting with self-mutilation and making clothes out of the things that end up dead around her with a great Craft(clothes) skill. Shadow-bloodline Sorceror from Nidal. Picked Cheliax faction but will probably change to something else ;-).
Svirfneblin are more than sufficiently morose and grim as well.
And adorable too.
If she is sad, give her a rose. If she is still grim give her morose. Just reminded me of a wordplay I read back in high school. This of course is a paraphrase.
I would never allow Svirfneblin in my games, I cannot pronounce it. Simmilar reason I never use Drow in games with people I do not know, for some say Drow whilst I say Drow. And it just leads to circular arguements.
Greg
Svirfneblin are more than sufficiently morose and grim as well.
And adorable too.
If she is sad, give her a rose. If she is still grim give her morose. Just reminded me of a wordplay I read back in high school. This of course is a paraphrase.
I would never allow Svirfneblin in my games, I cannot pronounce it. Simmilar reason I never use Drow in games with people I do not know, for some say Drow whilst I say Drow. And it just leads to circular arguements.
Greg
That's why you can use "deep gnomes" and "dark elves" ;)
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Quoting a few lines from Gnomes of Golarion: While this seeming innocence can be endearing, that isn't always the case; the innocent cruelty of a child burning ants or tormenting small animals can manifest in gnomes of all ages. To the gnome mind, both the smell of an unfamiliar flower and the wet pop of a squeezed eyeball are equally novel sensations.
My favourite comes from the old Campaign Setting book, as the introductory flavour text for gnomes:
"It is said that innocent joy can only be found in the beaming eyes of a child. I wonder if there is a hidden and grim meaning to this saying. Yesterday, my companion—a brawny gnome and savage warrior with purplish
hair—strangled a highway robber with his knobby hands. Like most of
his race, he is always a little skittish, but after the battle he was extremely excited and cheerful. In great detail he described the snapping sound, the last breath’s smell, and in his newly
colorful eyes I saw a joy no grown or sane man can ever experience."
—Delwik Oakes, Pathfinder
They might seem "cute" and "a joke" until the otherness of their very being really hits home.
I for one welcome our new Fairy Overlords!
That's why you can use "deep gnomes" and "dark elves" ;)
I never imagined gnomes being much into philosophy.
And did you see that picture of the what I assume is the Gnome chick in Faiths of balance in the sections of Neyths? 1 word Hot!!
+1. My husband is disturbingly fond of that picture.
If she is sad, give her a rose. If she is still grim give her morose.
And if that doesn't help then send her away as fast as you may. If you can't make her leave in a huff, make her leave in a minute and a huff.
I would never allow Svirfneblin in my games, I cannot pronounce it.
Same reason I didn't buy that Lamborghini after all.
Simmilar reason I never use Drow in games with people I do not know, for some say Drow whilst I say Drow.
But that's so easy. It rhymes with bow or row or sow.
And did you see that picture of the what I assume is the Gnome chick in Faiths of balance in the sections of Neyths? 1 word Hot!!+1. My husband is disturbingly fond of that picture.
You could always shuffle around on your knees.
You know men like their women short. It makes them the right size for... you know...
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Pathfinder Gnomes are fantastic really, the colors, being Fey-based and the whole bleaching thing. Simply fantastic.
Sadly the cool rework stopped with the gnome, I really wish they had did something, anything to make halflings halfway interesting.
Halflings are so iconic it is hard to do much with them flavor wise. I do think halfling luck should have been boosted to a full +2 to put it above Dwarven hardiness (now I would say they are on par) since they are behind in other advantages, but that is personal preference.
Halflings are so iconic it is hard to do much with them flavor wise.
The only flavor they ever get is "they are in the setting somewhere, as we have to have hobbits" That is it, not thought put to them, they are short and child like...umm yeah thats it.
You could remove them from the setting with zero lose of flavor or interest.
Alister, my PFS Gnome, is a LN Chelaxian who very much dislikes the whimsical, manic, disorganized, and haphazard way that most of his kin behave.
The alternative racial features do support this pretty nicely, Academician, and Gift of Tongues can denote a very organized and methodical kind of intensely bookish study that only a gnome is capable of without the "I'masupergoofy/zanyanime-chibiWEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! that you seem to dislike.
That said, i did give him Pyromaniac, cause everybody needs SOME kind f vice to have a good time ;)
at least halflings aren't gymnastic kender gypsies like 3rd edition.
i much prefer what pathfinder is doing with the core races.
some like dwarves and halflings didn't need to be changed much just some flavoring added such as dwarves starting underground then pushing their way up, the bellflower network- a halfling underground railroad- and jinxes, elves are darker (don't like the krynn-like superiority tho) and my favorite change: half-orcs are no longer stupid brutes (hated the -2 to every mental ability). keep up the good work.
I don't know if anyone is going to agree here, but I think that looks-wise, pathfinder absolutely butchered gnomes. The wacky green and purple skin tones and crazy hair just do nothing for me and I think the gnome's picture in the Races section of the PhB almost looks like a joke.
As characters, MY gnomes have always been brooding and sinister little fellows- and while this was not really your typical gnome lore wise, I could always take comfort in their dignified, NORMAL skin and hair. To me, they were basically smaller, more neurotic and magical humans. What I see now irks me. Sure, I still make gnomes and imagine them in a D&D flavor, but the gnome as presented in the book is a freaking fairy.
Anyone agree or disagree?
Fair enough, if you don't like em you don't like em.
I was quite pleased with Pathfinder's artistic and conceptual take on gnomes. I don't know if I'll ever include a pink-skinned gnome NPC in my campaigns, but I'm glad the thought is in my head.
I think that pathfinder saved the gnome from the identity crysis they had in the WotC game, they were crazy inventors...who also happened to be jolly bards...who also were proanksters...who were also illusionists, every new book they printed had a new gnome concept....fey like rainbow brite haired guys is awsesome, :D
I like the changes for the gnomes. In 2e they were always depicted as old men (even when they were young). 3e changed them to not always be old. The major change in PF was some color changes (which is not that different you don't have to take the more exotic colors) and the concept of the bleaching.
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I think that pathfinder saved the gnome from the identity crysis they had in the WotC game, they were crazy inventors...who also happened to be jolly bards...who also were proanksters...who were also illusionists, every new book they printed had a new gnome concept....fey like rainbow brite haired guys is awsesome, :D
Basically this is exactly why I like PF Gnomes. They used to be my most disliked race, now they're cool with me.
Gnomes became my favorite race. I used to avoid them because they were deformed gorilla-armed midgets in Neverwinter Nights, but I came to enjoy them quite a bit. Their brand of insanity and weirdness appeals to me.
There's really nothing stopping a gnome from having normal skin and hair colors. They just happen to have a colorful range of options.