Rhishisikk |
Just read a post where a magus could pretend to be an inquisitor. In the past, I have played a ninja pretending to be an expert (easy), and am currently playing an inquisitor who thinks of himself as a ranger.
But before I meander:
What classes have an easy time pretending to be another class, getting the same sort of thing done, even if through different game mechanics?
Rhishisikk |
Spontaneous Spellcasters of all kinds.
Good point. I could make an entire thread out of the discussion whether spontaneous casting is just an option for normal spellcasters. Give them more spells and a limited spell list... Hrm, that actually sounds doable. Off to nug it out...
ElyasRavenwood |
Granted this is at best a third hand story. I heard from a friend, that during one of the games the D&D developers ran ( back in 3.5) they had a TPK. The players then decided to make an all cleric party. I think one cleric might have had a level of rogue, another a level of fighet, etc.
But with all clerics, and different different domains, as the story goes, they were able to pull of a 4 man adventuring team, filling the cleric fighter rouge mage roles and the DM couldn’t put the party down down.
I don’t know how true this third hand story is, but if any class can step into another classes shoes, I think a cleric can
TriOmegaZero |
Frogboy wrote:Barbarian can fake being a Rogue when it comes to disabling traps and opening doors.The guy with the most HP is not the secondary rogue.
However, the guy with Trap Sense, trained Disable Device and Search (only missing the +3 Class Skill bonus), and extra HP/Fort save bonuses to survive missed traps IS the secondary rogue.
Frogboy |
But with all clerics, and different different domains, as the story goes, they were able to pull of a 4 man adventuring team, filling the cleric fighter rouge mage roles and the DM couldn’t put the party down down.
Kind of an embellishment. If the DM wants to wipe you out, he can. Ours jokingly does every week.
I don’t know how true this third hand story is, but if any class can step into another classes shoes, I think a cleric can
In 3.5, definitely. Crazy thing is, this would still work well in Pathfinder. 2 negative energy channeling specialists, 1 positive energy channeling specialist and 1 battle priest would be a very formidable group. Add a 3rd NE channeler in there for a party of five and you could spam damage the living crap out of most encounters. Lots of healing as well. Constructs and some outsiders and elementals would be your only weakness [that pops into mind right off-hand].
Which brings me to ... negative energy channeling cleric can easily sub in for a blaster wizard/sorcerer.
LazarX |
Just read a post where a magus could pretend to be an inquisitor. In the past, I have played a ninja pretending to be an expert (easy), and am currently playing an inquisitor who thinks of himself as a ranger.
But before I meander:
What classes have an easy time pretending to be another class, getting the same sort of thing done, even if through different game mechanics?
Most characters don't think of themselves as "classes". Those are gaming constructs. They generally think of themselves as people and would most likely take on unique titles given what they do.
My Elven Magus doesn't think of herself as Elloraie the Magus, she thinks of her self as Elloraie, wielder of the Moonblade of S'Drais. Now the concept could be equally executed by either magus, an eldritch knight build, or an AD+D fighter/MU. The game execution might differ, but the character would still be essentially the same.
Rhishisikk |
[SNIP]
Most characters don't think of themselves as "classes". Those are gaming constructs. They generally think of themselves as people and would most likely take on unique titles given what they do.My Elven Magus doesn't think of herself as Elloraie the Magus, she thinks of her self as Elloraie, wielder of the Moonblade of S'Drais. Now the concept could be equally executed by either magus, an eldritch knight build, or an AD+D fighter/MU. The game execution might differ, but the character would still be essentially the same.
Thank you, LazarX. This is EXACTLY my point. I am looking for the point where the game mechanics bleed over, where just because a certain ability is exhibited or a task completed, you still, as an outside observer, would have a hard time identifying the base class and/or prestige class involved.
Timothy Hanson |
Just read a post where a magus could pretend to be an inquisitor. In the past, I have played a ninja pretending to be an expert (easy), and am currently playing an inquisitor who thinks of himself as a ranger.
But before I meander:
What classes have an easy time pretending to be another class, getting the same sort of thing done, even if through different game mechanics?
How does one fake being an expert? That just seems like a physicist faking being a calc teacher to me. Paladins, Barbarians, Monks, Rogues, Rangers, Cavaliers, Inquisitors and Bards can fake being Fighters pretty well. Pretty hard to count someones feats "in game".
The only classes I see having actual in game definitions would probably be: Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer, and Paladin. Possibly a Bard, but a little less then the other four. If you are divine warrior who upholds Good and Justice you are almost guaranteed to be a Paladin, if you study magic to learn to manipulate it then you are most certainly a Wizard. If you get into bar fights and hit things with a giant axe, or you sing and dance and steal peoples money, you could be a billion different things.
meatrace |
Matt Stich wrote:However, the guy with Trap Sense, trained Disable Device and Search (only missing the +3 Class Skill bonus), and extra HP/Fort save bonuses to survive missed traps IS the secondary rogue.Frogboy wrote:Barbarian can fake being a Rogue when it comes to disabling traps and opening doors.The guy with the most HP is not the secondary rogue.
If not the primary one.
LazarX |
LazarX wrote:Thank you, LazarX. This is EXACTLY my point. I am looking for the point where the game mechanics bleed over, where just because a certain ability is exhibited or a task completed, you still, as an outside observer, would have a hard time identifying the base class and/or prestige class involved.[SNIP]
Most characters don't think of themselves as "classes". Those are gaming constructs. They generally think of themselves as people and would most likely take on unique titles given what they do.My Elven Magus doesn't think of herself as Elloraie the Magus, she thinks of her self as Elloraie, wielder of the Moonblade of S'Drais. Now the concept could be equally executed by either magus, an eldritch knight build, or an AD+D fighter/MU. The game execution might differ, but the character would still be essentially the same.
I think in that case, you titled your question wrong. My example does not involve one possibility "faking" another, it's an illustration that there is seldom only one way to portray a character. Game stats are really just the skeleton of an actual character, an abstraction of a more complete whole.
Atarlost |
I must be missing something, but why would a character wan't to pretend to be another class, especially when the "class" is just a mechanic, and should have no importance to the character itself?
Because intelligent enemies tend to react to the threats they expect. If your wizard wears a monk robe, carries a bunch of monk weapons, and stills and silences his combat opening spells he will take a lot less flak than if he looks like a wizard. Similarly if your monk wears robes of the archmagi, carries a quarterstaff crafted to look like a staff of power, and has the real wizard's familiar sit on his shoulder, and fakes somatic and verbal components when the real wizard casts spells many enemies will conveniently come to him and set themselves up for a load of hurt.
A Druid and Fighter could handily masquerade as a single Cavalier, reducing the apparent party size.
Clerics and Barbarians/Rangers can pull off similar tricks, but the capability gap isn't as dramatic since Clerics are pretty tough customers already.
DreamAtelier |
I must be missing something, but why would a character wan't to pretend to be another class, especially when the "class" is just a mechanic, and should have no importance to the character itself?
Depends on the party you are playing with, and your actual abilities.
Sometimes you don't want everyone in the party to know that you're the lawful neutral cleric of a lawful evil god. Perhaps there's a paladin in the group of a faith that is vehemently opposed to yours, or perhaps that faith is simply outlawed in the predominate party culture. Perhaps the party is being used to hunt heretics of that faith unknowingly, and you don't want them to realize you've been detailed by the church to report their progress (or lump you in with the things they've been killing).
Similarly, almost any class can end up in a scenario where they don't want their abilities to be known due to in game laws. Rogues coming into a dictatorship and asked what it is they do at the gates might want to masquerade as anything else, because you can't really admit "I'm a thief" without getting thrown in jail. The reasons for wanting to be believed to be something you aren't are nigh on endless.
Kthulhu |
I must be missing something, but why would a character wan't to pretend to be another class, especially when the "class" is just a mechanic, and should have no importance to the character itself?
Might also depend on the setting. I'm basing this off a few of the Golarion novels, but in Golarion the general consensus on witches seems to be about equivalent to Salem....burn 'em. One of the characters in another novel is a sorcerer who poses (rather unconvincingly) as a wizard. A fighter, a cavalier, a barbarian, and a monk are really just different types of warriors, with the non-mechanical differences being semantics.
Zephyre Al'dran |
Bards are clearly the best at faking the utility of other classes. A dex build bard can pull off dex build fighter decently. With versitile performance and skill set to nearly make the rogue jealous, they could also pull of rogue well enough as well. The spell list & combat ability are close enough to a cleric that that is a sham most wouldn't see through. Pretending to be anything other than an enchanter wizard as far as the Wiz/Sor ruse goes is just about impossible. Add the Savage Skald archtype + Rage spell and your average barbarian wouldn't know you weren't one of them. A bard could fake a summoner, but not very convincingly. The skill set they have and spell selection does make faking an inquisitor possible but another inquistor would easily out them (it's what they do). Somebody has alreay done a comparison of the Bard vs the Magus and the bard clearly can manage that role as well. If you just look at the witch as an arcane caster with healing and utility spells, then with a little make and the eldtrich heritage feat tree you can manage a familiar and pull of a witch easily enough. It's the outdoorsy type characters that give the bard a significant difficulty to fake. That and alchemist. Short of a fireball there are few ways to fake the power of an alchemist.
Incidentaly, Alchemists are great fakers too. Experts in alchemy and medicine are easy fakes, but with the vivasectionist they can truly pull of rogue better then most other classes. They happen to have perception and disable device allowing them to manage most traps. Invisibility and Greater Invisibility Extracts cover their stealth needs should they arise, and as Intelligence based casters they will have a lot of skill points to use even on nonclass skills should they choose to. Alchemist may not be able to fake other into believing they are stupid barbarians (they have too much pride in their intellect to even try) they can fill the barbarians role easily enough with Mutegens and extracts and the Chymist prestige class. Finally, they actually make decent summoners now with the Perservationist Archtype. So far, they are the only other demi caster able to pull of summon monster as a standard action (granted it would still take the creature a full round to form and attack) and they are the only caster aside from the nature oracle to get both Nature's Ally and Summon Monster.
drennier |
I played a Draconic Bloodlined Sorcerer awhile back that thoroughly enjoyed using his class or his spear. I made sure to express to GM and fellow party members that his gear was like that of a lightly armored warrior. Mechanically, it wasn't armor, but I said he had a shoulder pad here, a shin guard there, etc. Essentially pieced together armor. During down time and such he practiced his martial techniques, finding a field for spear work or doing physical exercise because, as a sorcerer, his magic came to him naturally. It wasn't something he felt he needed to "train". In a sense, he "faked" as a martial class the whole game. If you never saw him cast, you wouldn't know he had the ability to(sans the claws striking you as something weird, pun intended). Also, as was discussed slightly in previous posts, it kept him alive in some situations. Our GM plays NPCs very smart. If they see magic, they kill it first. No one suspects the spear wielding fighter to let loose a fireball when its opportune.
Bryan Stiltz Reaper Miniatures |
In a PFS game I played at PaizoCon, one of the other characters was a 5th level ranger. His character told us, however, that he was a cleric of Aroden. He had decent combat, no spell failure, and cast spells the wizard recognized as divine in origin...
Admittedly, he didn't channel energy or any such thing, but he convinced my oracle.