I'm glad James explained that Dungeons of Golarion was a feeler towards a possible mega-dungeon. This is a great product, and I'd be happy w/ most any of those particular dungeons being fleshed out in said mega-dungeon. For various reasons, probably Gallowspire or Hollow Mountain would be ideal.
And of course, as Evil Lincoln pointed out above, Kaer Maga might even be the best choice of all.
I was surprised to hear it's a possible AP option, though. Pleasantly, of course. I would have thought the test-waters would be breached w/ a massive hardback. But I don't know the economics behind the decision. All I can say is, PF needs its own standout mega-dungeon, and I know Paizo will do a good job w/ it should it get the green light.
I was surprised to hear it's a possible AP option, though.
I'm not surprised. Over the next 10 years I'm betting Paizo will start doing all sorts of new styles of AP. They've got to keep pushing the envelope.
I was surprised to hear it's a possible AP option, though. Pleasantly, of course. I would have thought the test-waters would be breached w/ a massive hardback. But I don't know the economics behind the decision. All I can say is, PF needs its own standout mega-dungeon, and I know Paizo will do a good job w/ it should it get the green light.
I think I'd prefer a non-AP presentation of a megadungeon, actually. They take a lot of pages to write up properly, and I have serious doubts it could be done in the pages of 6 AP books, what with all the other stuff that gets crammed in there too. I'd love a big ol' hardback, a series of several smaller books detailing campaign, or even (dare I dream?) a boxed set. Mmmmmmmm...boxed set...
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I think I'd prefer a non-AP presentation of a megadungeon, actually. They take a lot of pages to write up properly, and I have serious doubts it could be done in the pages of 6 AP books, what with all the other stuff that gets crammed in there too. I'd love a big ol' hardback, a series of several smaller books detailing campaign, or even (dare I dream?) a boxed set. Mmmmmmmm...boxed set...
I was surprised to hear it's a possible AP option, though. Pleasantly, of course. I would have thought the test-waters would be breached w/ a massive hardback. But I don't know the economics behind the decision. All I can say is, PF needs its own standout mega-dungeon, and I know Paizo will do a good job w/ it should it get the green light.
I agree that doing a true memgadungeon in 6 AP books could be very VERY tight. I'm not really sure it could be done if they insisted on keeping the format of only half the book for the actual adventure.
My preference, a huge hardback (or maybe two smaller hardbacks, i think two 256 page books could do a megadungeon justice). I know this will brand me a huge heretic, but I'm not really a fan of box sets.
Now that sounds better. If it were developed that way, it would be something that might peak my interest. (My request for a Megadungeon definitieon was not to sound sarcastic, I genuinely want to know what people find interesting about them.)
And to clarify, to me, Dungeon Crawl is by definition a hack and slash loot-fest. I.E. Diablo... If a Dungeon, even a big one, has good roleplaying elements, then to me its not a Dungeon Crawl.
The pejorative meaning of "dungeon crawl" is a red flag for some people.
But let's be realistic here, guys: Could Paizo even make a generic, smash and grab, Diablo-like experience fit into the AP format? I don't think so. Every AP has had plot elements. Why would they suddenly abandon that and publish 6 months of books that could be covered by 98 pages of random encounter tables? They wouldn't. It's not going to happen.
So dungeon-lovers, stop being so defensive. Paizo knows what you like, and is considering handing it to you.
Dungeon-haters, I am honestly mystified by what you see in Pathfinder, but I won't judge. Just remember that an AP is plot driven, and so a mega-dungeon AP will be a plot that drives you into a dungeon.
If "wilderness" became a buzzword for poorly-thought-out, random, plotless garbage, would you put the kibosh on all wilderness adventures too?
I think I'd prefer a non-AP presentation of a megadungeon, actually. They take a lot of pages to write up properly, and I have serious doubts it could be done in the pages of 6 AP books, what with all the other stuff that gets crammed in there too. I'd love a big ol' hardback, a series of several smaller books detailing campaign, or even (dare I dream?) a boxed set. Mmmmmmmm...boxed set...
I respectfully disagree sir. If you have ever held all six volumes of an AP in hand, you know what those 588 pages feels like. Boxed sets might have great maps and stuff, but typically not 588 pages of material — and the maps would be of limited utility in this context.
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The pejorative meaning of "dungeon crawl" is a red flag for some people.
The term is a red flag to both sides because it has different meanings based on their personal experiences. I don't think anyone is wrong for liking or disliking the concept but I think they should be free to express that just as those who don't like pirates or Asia themes should.
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I respectfully disagree sir. If you have ever held all six volumes of an AP in hand, you know what those 588 pages feels like. Boxed sets might have great maps and stuff, but typically not 588 pages of material — and the maps would be of limited utility in this context.
Except you have to remember to chop that 588 pages in (roughly) half. 294 of those pages will be fiction, bestiary, and other support articles.
And I have to respectfully disagree that maps are of limited utility for a megadungeon. Maps are pretty damned vital.
If this is done as an AP, I think they either need to revise the format for this AP (making it mostly adventure) or extend it to a minimum of 9 volumes.
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The term is a red flag to both sides because it has different meanings based on their personal experiences. I don't think anyone is wrong for liking or disliking the concept but I think they should be free to express that just as those who don't like pirates or Asia themes should.
The difference is that nobody is implying that a pirate or an Asian themed AP would be incapable of being anything but hack-n-slash.
Not at all. First of all, Bestiary and support articles would be in a boxed set as well :)
There is the fiction, but the fiction is just there. I don't like it, but it's not going anywhere.
I remain unconvinced. 588 pages can cover a good 16 levels of the game with ease. Although I love the idea of a 20 level AP, that's not the formula. So if you're making the material longer without adding levels, what are you adding exactly? More box text?
Maps are vital to the megadungeon. So vital, in fact, that you could not include enough of them on a proper scale for combat to make it worthwhile. Instead, they should be presented in the AP, with a map Folio, as per usual I think. Poster maps were what I was referring to in my original comment, BTW.
There is nothing about my past 3 AP experiences that leads me to believe significant changes must be made to accommodate a first-rate megadungeon.
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3.5-era Pathfinder Adventure Path Spoilers :
Have to admit, "dungeon crawl" does send up a red flag as far as sustaining an entire AP, but I'm sure Paizo would keep plenty of plot on the table along with other elements to keep things mixed up.
My players were getting weary of Scarwall towards the end, though their eagerness to get back to where most of their characters were invested played into that a little. But an AP made of Skeletons of Scarwalls and Sins of the Saviors is probably going to wear thin for any group that preferred the variety the APs have shown so far unless Paizo really pushes the boundrie of the megadungeon formula.
But yeah, whatever they do, Kaer Maga would be a perfect fit for such an AP. Plenty of level appropriate action above and below to get involved in.
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The term is a red flag to both sides because it has different meanings based on their personal experiences. I don't think anyone is wrong for liking or disliking the concept but I think they should be free to express that just as those who don't like pirates or Asia themes should.The difference is that nobody is implying that a pirate or an Asian themed AP would be incapable of being anything but hack-n-slash.
So? If that is someone's experience with a megadungeon then they can say so.
Personally I've only played in one (never GMed) and it was less than satisfactory. I have no problem with hack-n-slash, some of my favorite AP books were just that. But I'm not sure I would want book after book of Scarwall or Runeforge. I realize there are a lot of folks who do some I'm willing to wait and see what Paizo comes up with before making any decisions.
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I remain unconvinced. 588 pages can cover a good 16 levels of the game with ease. Although I love the idea of a 20 level AP, that's not the formula. So if you're making the material longer without adding levels, what are you adding exactly? More box text?
I wouldn't add more (character) levels, I would add more (dungeon) levels. Like I said before, unless there are at LEAST 15 dungeons levels and several sublevels, I consider it a big dungeon, not a mega-dungeon. And the dungeon levels themselves should be pretty big as well...I think the bigger dungeon levels that I've seen in Pathfinder products would really only be considered pretty smallish in a mega-dungeon.
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So? If that is someone's experience with a megadungeon then they can say so.
Then I'll say that a Asian AP is grounds for a bunch of horrible accents, racism, and ninja fanboys crying that they should automatically get +27 katanas and an inherent +72 bonus to stealth just for being 1st level ninjas.
Gimme 'Castle Greyhawk!'
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So? If that is someone's experience with a megadungeon then they can say so.Then I'll say that a Asian AP is grounds for a bunch of horrible accents, racism, and ninja fanboys crying that they should automatically get +27 katanas and an inherent +72 bonus to stealth just for being 1st level ninjas.
*shrug*
If that's your experience then hopefully you can find a more mature group of people to play with. And hopefully Paizo will surprise you too with a good AP.Out of curiosity, is this what your group has done in the past?
More importantly, it is going to create confusion and inhibit discussion.And to clarify, to me, Dungeon Crawl is by definition a hack and slash loot-fest. I.E. Diablo... If a Dungeon, even a big one, has good roleplaying elements, then to me its not a Dungeon Crawl.A dungeon crawl is an adventure that involves exploring a dungeon. Using it as a pejorative is going to offend people.
That explains a little. I've never been with a group that used Dungeon Crawl to describe anything but kill/loot. It was the "Crawl" part that set it apart from other adventures. Basically, pages after page of room descriptions with monsters and treasure. I've always thought the term Dungeon Crawl (here and just about everywhere else) to mean that the emphasis was on combat and traps. In fact, when I proposed a side quest in one of my online games, the players had a poll that they posted options as: Dungeon Crawl, Roleplaying, and City Enounters.
Exploring a dungeon and doing something besides killing and looting was called Exploration. Might be a UNY thing. I'll keep that in mind.
Megadungeon, with our groups, was always used to deascribe a big Dungeon Crawl (as we defined Dungeon Crawl).
When I read Megadungeon- my experience has been "Huge Hack and Slash Adventure". But if that's not what people are proposing, then I'd be a lot more interested.
Is this common? Or is Dungeon Crawl normally meant to simply be any Dungeon?
Edit: Just got my copy of Dungeons of Golarion. If that is what people see as Megadungeons, it's a lot different from the things we played fifteen years ago, and I would be interested.
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Going sideways on the subject, here, I don't think Kaer Maga is the best, or most appropriate choice for this potential AP.
It's gotta be Absalom's , doesn't it?!?
The Free City of Greyhawk has Castle Greyhawk;
Waterdeep has Undermountain;
Ptolus has the big Dungeon underneath it;
etc., etc., etc.
Absalom is the flagship location for Golarion;
The Spire of Nex is the adjacent MegaDungeon;
The AP HAS to be The Spire of Nex.
I don't see how Kaer Maga is any greater, other than personal opinion, than other major Dungeons of Golarion.
But The Spire of Nex is the one next to Absalom. So it's greater.
Besides, we've got product on Kaer Maga.
There's a demand for more Absalom -- including an AP.
Volume one could be in Absalom, two through six in the Dungeon.
Yes?
Edit: Just got my copy of Dungeons of Golarion. If that is what people see as Megadungeons, it's a lot different from the things we played fifteen years ago, and I would be interested.
A good megadungeon will include whole levels not set IN a dungeon, but inextricably linked to it. Demiplanes, portals to areas in the mountains or remote islands, whole plotlines that move back and forth between the dungeon and the nearest town -- all these are elements of a great megadungeon. Also, there can be massive variation from level to level in the dungeon itself -- sure, some of it's going to be constructed environment of 10'x30' rooms and trapped doors, but other levels could be inside active volcanoes, under a frigid underground river, inside an organically grown city of fungus people, in a single miles-long cavern with its own polities and populations, a previously-built area that's been ruined by ongoing earthquakes, an area that requires careening down an underground river replete with rapids and falls and towns built alongside it...and those are just ones from my own experiences with megadungeons. Other people can give you more and better examples of the variety present, I'm sure. A megadungeon isn't just one thing, any more than a wilderness or city campaign isn't just one thing. The limitation is imagination, and the good folks at Paizo have admirable imaginations!
It's gotta be Absalom's , doesn't it?!?
Okay, Ray, you make a strong case.
But if it's to be Absalom, I'll bet we can expect a goodly amount of material in the city, possible 1/3 or even 1/2 the AP. Still, sounds fun to me!
A good megadungeon will include whole levels not set IN a dungeon, but inextricably linked to it. Demiplanes, portals to areas in the mountains or remote islands, whole plotlines that move back and forth between the dungeon and the nearest town -- all these are elements of a great megadungeon. Also, there can be massive variation from level to level in the dungeon itself -- sure, some of it's going to be constructed environment of 10'x30' rooms and trapped doors, but other levels could be inside active volcanoes, under a frigid underground river, inside an organically grown city of fungus people, in a single miles-long cavern with its own polities and populations, a previously-built area that's been ruined by ongoing earthquakes, an area that requires careening down an underground river replete with rapids and falls and towns built alongside it...and those are just ones from my own experiences with megadungeons. Other people can give you more and better examples of the variety present, I'm sure. A megadungeon isn't just one thing, any more than a wilderness or city campaign isn't just one thing. The limitation is imagination, and the good folks at Paizo have admirable imaginations!
Edit: Just got my copy of Dungeons of Golarion. If that is what people see as Megadungeons, it's a lot different from the things we played fifteen years ago, and I would be interested.
That's what I'm counting on when they do decide to do something like this.
And Nex is interesting...
But yeah, whatever they do, Kaer Maga would be a perfect fit for such an AP. Plenty of level appropriate action above and below to get involved in.
It's worth noting, Kaer Maga would work well because the politics of the city spill into the dungeon (or vice verse) and I think that's the kind of set up necessary to sustain a megadungeon AP.
Think about the brothers of the seal, the duskwardens, etc. These are factions that have interests that lay in pretty dangerous and inaccessible regions of the undercity, and yet they affect day-to-day life in Kaer Maga.
You'd be just as likely to encounter a group of Kaer Maga NPCs (with vested political interests and complex motivations — who could be allies or enemies, or even just an information source) as you would to encounter a monster. However, in a Paizo AP, you could be assured that the "vanilla" monster encounter would be rich in context and well thought out as well.
Have a look at City of Strangers and tell me you couldn't set a whole campaign in that whacked-out subterranean ruin. The same rationale goes for the Spire of Nex, or Myth Drannor, or any megadungeon campaign. As long as the dungeon in question is a sprawling site of great importance, it can be done.
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But yeah, whatever they do, Kaer Maga would be a perfect fit for such an AP. Plenty of level appropriate action above and below to get involved in.It's worth noting, Kaer Maga would work well because the politics of the city spill into the dungeon (or vice verse) and I think that's the kind of set up necessary to sustain a megadungeon AP.
Think about the brothers of the seal, the duskwardens, etc. These are factions that have interests that lay in pretty dangerous and inaccessible regions of the undercity, and yet they affect day-to-day life in Kaer Maga.
You'd be just as likely to encounter a group of Kaer Maga NPCs (with vested political interests and complex motivations — who could be allies or enemies, or even just an information source) as you would to encounter a monster. However, in a Paizo AP, you could be assured that the "vanilla" monster encounter would be rich in context and well thought out as well.
Have a look at City of Strangers and tell me you couldn't set a whole campaign in that whacked-out subterranean ruin. The same rationale goes for the Spire of Nex, or Myth Drannor, or any megadungeon campaign. As long as the dungeon in question is a sprawling site of great importance, it can be done.
Plus it has a built in city where you can buy and sell just about anything...and a place where the events that happen down below can affect above ground politics and vice versa :)
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I respectfully disagree sir. If you have ever held all six volumes of an AP in hand, you know what those 588 pages feels like. Boxed sets might have great maps and stuff, but typically not 588 pages of material — and the maps would be of limited utility in this context.Except you have to remember to chop that 588 pages in (roughly) half. 294 of those pages will be fiction, bestiary, and other support articles.
Night Below was 192 pages.
Undermountain was 210 pages.Dragon Mountain was 210 pages.
Lost City of Barakus was 212 pages.
Now, they probably can't fit something like Castle Whiterock (723 pages) into an AP, but they can certainly fit a mega-dungeon campaign in one.
And I have to respectfully disagree that maps are of limited utility for a megadungeon. Maps are pretty damned vital.
Remember that paizo releases a map folio for each AP, so the giant poster sized maps will be included there, not in the AP itself.
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Night Below was 192 pages.
Undermountain was 210 pages.
Dragon Mountain was 210 pages.
Lost City of Barakus was 212 pages.
Don't claim to know much about the first three, but weren't they pre-3E? Which means that with stat blocks, they should easily triple in size. I don't consider Lost City of Barakus a mega-dungeon.
Don't claim to know much about the first three, but weren't they pre-3E? Which means that with stat blocks, they should easily triple in size. I don't consider Lost City of Barakus a mega-dungeon.
Night Below was 192 pages.
Undermountain was 210 pages.
Dragon Mountain was 210 pages.
Lost City of Barakus was 212 pages.
Not to mention that expectations for plot and background are vastly increased since pre-3e days, which adds massive pages.
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Absalom is the flagship location for Golarion;
The Spire of Nex is the adjacent MegaDungeon;
The AP HAS to be The Spire of Nex.I don't see how Kaer Maga is any greater, other than personal opinion, than other major Dungeons of Golarion.
But The Spire of Nex is the one next to Absalom. So it's greater.
The Red Redoubt is also right next to Absalom, you know.
Not to mention that expectations for plot and background are vastly increased since pre-3e days, which adds massive pages.
Actually we expected a lot of it back then as well, it's just that if the box said "Dungeon Crawl" then we didn't bother about it. If D&D (PF) was the movie industry then 'Dungeon Crawls' are our Porno's.
I would like to see Dragon Mountain remade for Pathfinder and A mega Dungeon does not sound all that bad provided it is handled correctly.
I would NOT like to see Dragon Mountain remade for Pathfinder. I would like to see it put in a hole filled with gasoline and ignited. And the ashes stuffed into a small spherical container and fired into the sun.
I wept tears of anguish over that... that... box. Trying to get make what should have been the coolest product imaginable entertaining in any way, shape or form.
I mean, did the author have a Monster Manual containing only one page?? With a picture of a ***** kobold on it??? Oh, and a dragon that I think had died of boredom by the time the party fought its way through 800 1HD creatures to find.
The only imaginative thing was that it shifted to another plane every two months. What a pity it didn't shift out of this one.
Anyway, I'm late to this party - I usually show up in every megadungeon thread and say 'yay for megadungeon!!'. Just not anything like Dragon ***** Mountain, for the love of God.
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I mean, did the author have a Monster Manual containing only one page?? With a picture of a ***** kobold on it??? Oh, and a dragon that I think had died of boredom by the time the party fought its way through 800 1HD creatures to find.
Dude, seriously. I love me some kobolds, but Dragon Mountain was a bit monochrome on the monsters.
Plus it totally stole the teleporting mountain thing from Krull.
Don't claim to know much about the first three, but weren't they pre-3E? Which means that with stat blocks, they should easily triple in size. I don't consider Lost City of Barakus a mega-dungeon.
Yeah, the first three were all 2nd Ed.
I don't think they'll triple in size - keep in mind that a big chunk of the pages of those megadungeons I listed was given over to fluff only somewhat connected to the adventure. Some of that kind of stuff can be covered by the articles in the AP, which means that you really have somewhere in the neighborhood of 300-350 pages to play around with. Even with the triple sized statblocks, the whole adventure won't triple in size. If the inflation is about what I'd expect - 40% to 50%, making a PFRPG Undermountain about 294-325 pages - you could still easily cover a megadungeon in 6 APs.
And, of course, I wouldn't expect the AP to cover every square inch of the whole complex. Large parts could be left for the DM to fill in with some guidelines (maybe in the form of an article on dungeon socio-ecosystem design with tables. lots of tables for rolling on.), and the AP focusing on a particular path/plot through the dungeon's many layers.
I don't really care which of the dungeons they select, though if I were going to toss a contender in the ring, I'd vote for Galt's Dread Dungeon. Mostly because that name is so Basic Edition Awesome that it should get more play.
I also think it'd be rad if the whole thing ended in the Midnight Mountains squaring off against an umbral dragon, possibly Ugothogo. Because that would mean Gugs. Lots and lots of Gugs.
I love me some Runelords, so I could support Hollow Mt.
For the sake of argument though, I don't think it would make a great AP — the nearest large settlement is quite far away (Magnimar, maybe Riddleport) and it's so isolated you'd have a hard time making the events inside the dungeon relevant to the outside world (not so with Kaer Maga).
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First a thousand times yes for a mega-dungeon. I have faith that Paizo would do it well.
Also I encourage anyone to go find a copy of Judges Guild's Caverns of Thracia. That is a megadungeon that is pitch-perfect in my mind with all sorts of plot-lines, factions and memorable NPCs running throughout it. Six APs with 45 to 50 pages devoted to the adventure in each issue would be plenty of room to create a memorable multi-level, multi-textured dungeon in the vein of Caverns of Thracia.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Regarding Spire of Nex versus Kaer Maga:
I think either would work well. They each have a city right next door for which there's already a campaign setting book, and they each have some ancillary materials ("Godsmouth Heresy" and a dozen or so Pathfinder Society scenarios) that would help GMs looking for options while keeping to canon.
My money would be on Kaer Maga. It strikes me as a richer source to mine, with more options for back doors, intrusions from civilization, and so on.
Also, Nex is Erik's baby. I want to see what he does with it, rather than six other talented writers.
I would like to see Dragon Mountain remade for Pathfinder and A mega Dungeon does not sound all that bad provided it is handled correctly.I would NOT like to see Dragon Mountain remade for Pathfinder. I would like to see it put in a hole filled with gasoline and ignited. And the ashes stuffed into a small spherical container and fired into the sun.
I wept tears of anguish over that... that... box. Trying to get make what should have been the coolest product imaginable entertaining in any way, shape or form.
I mean, did the author have a Monster Manual containing only one page?? With a picture of a ***** kobold on it??? Oh, and a dragon that I think had died of boredom by the time the party fought its way through 800 1HD creatures to find.
The only imaginative thing was that it shifted to another plane every two months. What a pity it didn't shift out of this one.
Anyway, I'm late to this party - I usually show up in every megadungeon thread and say 'yay for megadungeon!!'. Just not anything like Dragon ***** Mountain, for the love of God.
+1
Dragon Mountain is exactly the sort of thing I don't ever want to see again.
After reading Dungeons of Golarion, I'd have to trust Paizo to make a decent MD AP
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I think I'm glad that I missed Dragon Mountain, with some of the commentary.
When I think mega-dungeon, I think of this.
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But isn't the metric really character levels? Or rather encounters -> XP -> character levels?
Are you saying you want more content and more adventuring, without spanning more levels? I guess you could just slow advancement. I don't know if that would be popular.
Just noticed this. I think what I would do if I were in charge of a Pathfinder mega-dungeon project would be exactly the same thing that EN Publishing is doing with their Zeitgeist AP...
This adventure and all subsequent modules in the series assume that PCs will level up at pre-determined points, with such points being explicitly mentioned in the adventure.
It's a brilliant way to do things, in my less-than-humble opinion.
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I think I'm glad that I missed Dragon Mountain, with some of the commentary.
When I think mega-dungeon, I think of this.
I got as far as The Arena in that dungeon, playing under the cheatingest DM ever. It was brutal.
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Awesome pic Kthulhu.
Golarion does need a megadungeon and it does need strong roleplaying elements. These could most realistically be provided with a nearby city.
Even in the most railroaded hack and slash megadungeons, the pc game Diablo, it was great to return to Tristram's NPCs and hear their advice on your quests. Perhaps the roleplaying won't be provided by using diplomacy on monstrous clans within the dungeon, but the self-interested 'civilized race' factions outside the dungeon that are funding rival adventurers to light their torch and enter the godforsaken place in the first place. These could be wonderful to do in Absalom and provide an entry point to Pathfinder Society play.
After all, isn't a mega dungeon just an enormous vein of gold for the right and properly equipped society to mine?
I would love for their to be an elder dragon who is so vastly out of the power range of the PCs that they have no choice but to either avoid the giant bastard (who is dealing with vastly more important matters) or swear to follow his bidding. This creature would have multiple alliances and political influence. It should not be a straight out CE Red.
The dungeon must be full of ancient machinery that the PCs seek to reactivate and play with, allowing new areas to open up, strange clues as to the dungeon's original purpose and lots of great archaeological style musings by the PCs and NPCs. Osiria would be a great idea for this sort of stuff but I find the ancient Egyptian culture rehash a bit stale.
There should be sections of the dungeon that can be deemed 'SAFE' or 'CLEARED' that the party can quick travel through. Multiple random encounters would make it boring very fast.
Also! No matter what, the mega-dungeon needs its own Belloq running into the darkness and messing up the PCs plans.
Is there a reason we can't make this? I mean, assuming it's a community/fan based effort and all our i's are dotted and t's are crossed, is there any reason the community can't develop, say, Hollow Mountain as a mega-dungeon project. We'd need a place to host and an organizational structure, moderators and such, but wouldn't it be an awesome project?
Someone's beaten you to it. Search the forum for CLEAVES.
Now, as far as a megadungeon AP, I'd rather see Paizo do it, since I can be assured that's of the highest quality and with art and the like. Plus it will contain easter eggs and official plot business.
Going sideways on the subject, here, I don't think Kaer Maga is the best, or most appropriate choice for this potential AP.
It's gotta be Absalom's , doesn't it?!?
The Free City of Greyhawk has Castle Greyhawk;
Waterdeep has Undermountain;
Ptolus has the big Dungeon underneath it;
etc., etc., etc.Absalom is the flagship location for Golarion;
The Spire of Nex is the adjacent MegaDungeon;
The AP HAS to be The Spire of Nex.
I'm pretty sure the closest Megadungeon to the city of Absalom (and closest Ptolus/Undermountain analogue) is the Starstone Cathedral. YMMV.
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I'm pretty sure the closest Megadungeon to the city of Absalom (and closest Ptolus/Undermountain analogue) is the Starstone Cathedral. YMMV.
It may not necessarily be a mega-dungeon. Just because a dungeon is very difficult, that doesn't automatically make it a mega-dungeon. For example, take a look at the Tomb of Horrors. It's definitely NOT a mega-dungeon, it's a single mid-sized dungeon level. But it is one of the deadliest dungeons ever devised for the game.
Is there a reason we can't make this? I mean, assuming it's a community/fan based effort and all our i's are dotted and t's are crossed, is there any reason the community can't develop, say, Hollow Mountain as a mega-dungeon project. We'd need a place to host and an organizational structure, moderators and such, but wouldn't it be an awesome project?Someone's beaten you to it. Search the forum for CLEAVES.
Now, as far as a megadungeon AP, I'd rather see Paizo do it, since I can be assured that's of the highest quality and with art and the like. Plus it will contain easter eggs and official plot business.
I think there might be room for one more though, since the Cleaves is kinda "weird." I'd like to see a more traditional megadungeon done by the community.
I'm pretty sure the closest Megadungeon to the city of Absalom (and closest Ptolus/Undermountain analogue) is the Starstone Cathedral. YMMV.
I don't disagree, but the Spire of Nex would also qualify, and I think (pure speculation) that they would reserve the Starstone Cathedral for a Mythic Rule system.
Which doesn't exist, but I see it as likely at some point in the future.
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I'm pretty sure the closest Megadungeon ... is the Starstone Cathedral.
I thought seriously about that before my post.
But I don't know that I'd call it a MegaDungeon. I think I have to agree with Kthulhu that it's more like a small, uber famous, specialty Dungeon, the "specialty" being that one ascends to godhood upon completion.
I just think of The Spire of Nex as being the Undermountain or Castle Greyhawk of Golarion -- but, of course, that's just my own perception, maybe my perception is different than Jacobs's, et al is.