RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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From the PRD:
you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10.
Now, say I'm in a threatened square that's diagonal from an enemy, as below:
X - -
- O -
- - -
Suppose I want to move a few spaces to the right. That would involve me leaving a total of 3 threatened squares from that enemy. Now, if I wanted to simply take the AoO, then unless he had Combat Reflexes I'd obviously only take 1 attack.
But if I'm using Acrobatics to slip by without provoking, do I make only one check for the entire movement, or do I have to make a check for each square I leave (three total)?
Please support your answer with rules text/FAQ/whatever. Thanks!
Hahah, I remember back in 3.0 we thought that you provoked for each square; fighting creatures that threatened spaces four squares out was INSANE, and Spring Attack, Tumble and Combat Casting were must-haves if you were going to close into melee.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You only provoke one AoO for moving now (per opponent) per p.180, so you'd only need one check.
I'm aware of that rule, but I'm not sure it completely answers the question. Consider the following:
I announce that I'm leaving the first threatened square carefully, and I roll Acrobatics. I succeed, and therefore don't provoke. I then leave the second square. Since I didn't provoke the first time (due to the successful Acrobatics check), that "one provoke per move" limit hasn't been reached yet; i.e., if I did need multiple checks and I succeeded on the first and failed the second, that would still only be one provocation. It's not like I provoke first and then use Acrobatics to nullify the attack; Acrobatics prevents me from provoking in the first place.
Did I explain that clearly? Do you understand why I don't feel confident about the applicability of the rule you cited?
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From the PRD:
you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10.Now, say I'm in a threatened square that's diagonal from an enemy, as below:
X - -
- O -
- - -Suppose I want to move a few spaces to the right. That would involve me leaving a total of 3 threatened squares from that enemy. Now, if I wanted to simply take the AoO, then unless he had Combat Reflexes I'd obviously only take 1 attack.
But if I'm using Acrobatics to slip by without provoking, do I make only one check for the entire movement, or do I have to make a check for each square I leave (three total)?
Please support your answer with rules text/FAQ/whatever. Thanks!
Looks like you got your answer already from Fenrisnorth, who is spot on. An opponent only gets one AoO for someone moving through a threatened square, per round. So, if you are willing to take an AoO from an opponent, you would take it for leaving the first threatened square. Then you can walk circles around him the rest of the round without provoking further AoOs.
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
Additionally, you need not make multiple Acrobatics checks for multiple opponents:
EDIT: Looks like I was mistaken, you DO need to make an Acrobatics check per foe (per the FAQ entry in the post below). My apologies for the mistake.
This DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent avoided in 1 round.
So, it's one acrobatic check for the movement, per foe whose threatened square you leave, with the DC increased by 2 for each additional opponent avoided beyond the first, and each opponent only gets 1 attack of opportunity for you leaving one of their threatened squares, each round.
Acrobatics allows you to make checks to move through the threatened area of foes without provoking attacks of opportunity. You must make a check the moment you attempt to leave a square threatened by an enemy, but only once per foe. The DC (which is based of the Combat Maneuver Defense of each foe), increases by +2 for each foe after the first in one round. The DC also increases by +5 if you attempt to move through a foe. In the case of moving out of the threatened square of two foes at the same time, the moving character decides which check to make first.
For example, a rogue is flanked by a meek goblin and a terrifying antipaladin. The rogue move away from both of them, provoking an attack of opportunity from both, but uses Acrobatics to attempt to negate them. She must move at half speed while threatened by these foes and can choose which to check against first. If she fails a check, she provokes an attack of opportunity from that foe. If she makes it, she does not provoke from moving through that foe's threatened space this turn.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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An opponent only gets one AoO for someone moving through a threatened square, per round. So, if you are willing to take an AoO from an opponent, you would take it for leaving the first threatened square. Then you can walk circles around him the rest of the round without provoking further AoOs.
That's not quite what I was asking. I know how AoO's work in general. I was asking about Acrobatics and how many checks I had to make.
EDIT:
@Quantum Steve - Thanks! That's exactly what I needed!
Looks like you got your answer already from Fenrisnorth, who is spot on. An opponent only gets one AoO for someone moving through a threatened square, per round. So, if you are willing to take an AoO from an opponent, you would take it for leaving the first threatened square. Then you can walk circles around him the rest of the round without provoking further AoOs.
Not quite true. An opponent can only make one attack per opportunity. Moving out of more than one square counts as one opportunity. However, he can make that attack anytime during that opportunity.
Ex. If you think a gnoll is going to try to move between you and your ally, you don't have to take the AoO after he leaves the first square. You can take it after he leaves the second, or the third, or any threatened square he leaves that round. You only can make one attack, and if you choose not to make an attack you may not get a second chance, in which case you'd be SOL.
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Not quite true. An opponent can only make one attack per opportunity. Moving out of more than one square counts as one opportunity. However, he can make that attack anytime during that opportunity.
Ex. If you think a gnoll is going to try to move between you and your ally, you don't have to take the AoO after he leaves the first square. You can take it after he leaves the second, or the third, or any threatened square he leaves that round. You only can make one attack, and if you choose not to make an attack you may not get a second chance, in which case you'd be SOL.
An important point, thanks for the additional clarification.
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While we're on the subject, we had this situation come up in a recent game. Characters were in a 5-foot wide hallway: 2 PCs with 2 Opponents. "A" and "B" are the PCs, "O" are the opponents:
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ABOO
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"A" wanted to move through "B" (legal) and use Acrobatics to move through "O" and "O" to end here:
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BOOA
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We know that "A" can move through "B" (an ally) and then had "A" make an Acrobatics check with the +5 DC modifier for moving through an enemy's space. "A" failed the first check. The player then questioned whether or not this meant the character could continue moving, but would take the AoO, or if it meant they failed to move through entirely. I ruled that they failed to move through entirely, that the check to move through a threatened space was not only to avoid AoOs, but to also succeed at moving through an opponents space. Since the failed roll, by this ruling, meant that "A" didn't succeed in moving past the two opponents, and that "A" can't occupy "B's" square at the end of her turn, she ended the round right where she started:
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ABOO
----------
Does that seem right?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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While we're on the subject, we had this situation come up in a recent game. Characters were in a 5-foot wide hallway: 2 PCs with 2 Opponents. "A" and "B" are the PCs, "O" are the opponents:
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ABOO
----------"A" wanted to move through "B" (legal) and use Acrobatics to move through "O" and "O" to end here:
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BOOA
----------We know that "A" can move through "B" (an ally) and then had "A" make an Acrobatics check with the +5 DC modifier for moving through an enemy's space. "A" failed the first check. The player then questioned whether or not this meant the character could continue moving, but would take the AoO, or if it meant they failed to move through entirely. I ruled that they failed to move through entirely, that the check to move through a threatened space was not only to avoid AoOs, but to also succeed at moving through an opponents space. Since the failed roll, by this ruling, meant that "A" didn't succeed in moving past the two opponents, and that "A" can't occupy "B's" square at the end of her turn, she ended the round right where she started:
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ABOO
----------Does that seem right?
I think your final conclusion is right, but I want to make a clarification:
Your description makes it sound like even if A wasn't trying to move through, but only past (as in a 10ft hallway instead of 5ft), he'd still have ended his movement on a failed check. If this is what you meant, I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. The description of moving through threatened squares certainly doesn't say or imply that failure stops your movement - the movement is legal even if you're *not* using Acrobatics.In any case, whether you thought that or not, since (correct me if I'm wrong) moving through an enemy's space is illegal except with the use of Acrobatics, I would have to agree that a failed check would prevent moving through.
I think I'd allow A to end sharing a space with (and squeezing with) B, though (if B was willing).
By the way, that scenario sounds awfully familiar. You wouldn't happen to have been playing at Source Comics and Games in Falcon Heights, MN, would you?
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While we're on the subject, we had this situation come up in a recent game. Characters were in a 5-foot wide hallway: 2 PCs with 2 Opponents. "A" and "B" are the PCs, "O" are the opponents:
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ABOO
----------"A" wanted to move through "B" (legal) and use Acrobatics to move through "O" and "O" to end here:
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BOOA
----------We know that "A" can move through "B" (an ally) and then had "A" make an Acrobatics check with the +5 DC modifier for moving through an enemy's space. "A" failed the first check. The player then questioned whether or not this meant the character could continue moving, but would take the AoO, or if it meant they failed to move through entirely. I ruled that they failed to move through entirely, that the check to move through a threatened space was not only to avoid AoOs, but to also succeed at moving through an opponents space. Since the failed roll, by this ruling, meant that "A" didn't succeed in moving past the two opponents, and that "A" can't occupy "B's" square at the end of her turn, she ended the round right where she started:
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ABOO
----------Does that seem right?
That's really the only place for them to be. It sounds a little wonky, but since "A" was cartwheeling around anyway, that's where she ends up.
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Just a point of clarification.
This is incorrect ...
Additionally, you need not make multiple Acrobatics checks for multiple opponents:
Core Rulebook, pg. 88 wrote:
This DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent avoided in 1 round.So, it's one acrobatic check for the movement, with the DC increased by 2 for each additional opponent avoided beyond the first, and each opponent only gets 1 attack of opportunity for you leaving one of their threatened squares, each round.
When compared with this ...
Acrobatics allows you to make checks to move through the threatened area of foes without provoking attacks of opportunity. You must make a check the moment you attempt to leave a square threatened by an enemy, but only once per foe. The DC (which is based of the Combat Maneuver Defense of each foe), increases by +2 for each foe after the first in one round. The DC also increases by +5 if you attempt to move through a foe. In the case of moving out of the threatened square of two foes at the same time, the moving character decides which check to make first.
For example, a rogue is flanked by a meek goblin and a terrifying antipaladin. The rogue move away from both of them, provoking an attack of opportunity from both, but uses Acrobatics to attempt to negate them. She must move at half speed while threatened by these foes and can choose which to check against first. If she fails a check, she provokes an attack of opportunity from that foe. If she makes it, she does not provoke from moving through that foe's threatened space this turn.
INSTEAD:
You roll an acrobatics roll once for each enemy you try to avoid an AoO from, with each additional roll/enemy getting an additional +2 to DC.|
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I think your final conclusion is right, but I want to make a clarification:
Your description makes it sound like even if A wasn't trying to move through, but only past (as in a 10ft hallway instead of 5ft), he'd still have ended his movement on a failed check. If this is what you meant, I'm pretty sure that's incorrect.
No-no, the 5' hallway was a key element to the situation. If "A" had been attempting to move through a threatened area (not through an occupied space) I would have allowed the movement, but they would have taken the AoOs on the failed check.
The description of moving through threatened squares certainly doesn't say or imply that failure stops your movement - the movement is legal even if you're *not* using Acrobatics.
Totally understood, and I agree.
In any case, whether you thought that or not, since (correct me if I'm wrong) moving through an enemy's space is illegal except with the use of Acrobatics, I would have to agree that a failed check would prevent moving through.
That's my thought, per the following from the Core Rulebook:
Opponent: You can’t move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.
Ending Your Movement: You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
Overrun: During your movement, you can attempt to move through a square occupied by an opponent (see page 201).
Tumbling: A trained character can attempt to use Acrobatics to move through a square occupied by an opponent (see the Acrobatics skill).
Emphasis mine...
I think I'd allow A to end sharing a space with (and squeezing with) B, though (if B was willing).
I guess that's another story, if "B" (and "A") were willing to take the penalties for squeezing...
By the way, that scenario sounds awfully familiar. You wouldn't happen to have been playing at Source Comics and Games in Falcon Heights, MN, would you?
Newp. This was in a small home campaign...far far away from Minnesota. ;)
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While we're on the subject, we had this situation come up in a recent game. Characters were in a 5-foot wide hallway: 2 PCs with 2 Opponents. "A" and "B" are the PCs, "O" are the opponents:
----------
ABOO
----------"A" wanted to move through "B" (legal) and use Acrobatics to move through "O" and "O" to end here:
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BOOA
----------We know that "A" can move through "B" (an ally) and then had "A" make an Acrobatics check with the +5 DC modifier for moving through an enemy's space. "A" failed the first check. The player then questioned whether or not this meant the character could continue moving, but would take the AoO, or if it meant they failed to move through entirely. I ruled that they failed to move through entirely, that the check to move through a threatened space was not only to avoid AoOs, but to also succeed at moving through an opponents space. Since the failed roll, by this ruling, meant that "A" didn't succeed in moving past the two opponents, and that "A" can't occupy "B's" square at the end of her turn, she ended the round right where she started:
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ABOO
----------Does that seem right?
Yeah, they take the AoO and then end up where they started. Without the acrobatics check, there is no option to move through opponent's square at all. Having failed it, it doesn't seem reasonable to give the passage, AoO or not. As for ending in B's square while squeezing, there is no option to squeeze with another creature voluntarily, although it is something that is often either homeruled in or allowed via lack of knowledge.
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As for ending in B's square while squeezing, there is no option to squeeze with another creature voluntarily, although it is something that is often either homeruled in or allowed via lack of knowledge.
Yeah...it doesn't seem totally unreasonable. However, I just peeked at pg. 193 and saw this:
A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square.
So, homerules aside, squeezing with an ally in a single square is "illegal."
/shrug
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Since the failed roll, by this ruling, meant that "A" didn't succeed in moving past the two opponents, and that "A" can't occupy "B's" square at the end of her turn, she ended the round right where she started:
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ABOO
----------Does that seem right?
It seems like a fair and generous ruling to me. I would have had A end their movement prone in B's space, creating problems for B (who now has A underfoot).
But I can be kind of mean when adjudicating failures.
My opinion (and what I have used in my game) is that A did use acrobatics (just very poorly), therefore could go through the square occupied by the enemy, receiving an AoO as he stumbled through the occupied square, then needing another roll (different opponent) to get through the second occupied square (unless the second opponent took its AoO when the PC muffed the roll the first time).
If the PC failed to enter the first occupied square at all due to a failed acrobatics roll, how could either of the opponents get an AoO, since (techincally) A never left his original square due to the failed acrobatics roll? Unless you are saying he went as far as the occupied square, bounced off of the opponent, then rolled back to his original square, at which time he would be subject to AoO's from both opponents for leaving threatened squares.
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It seems like a fair and generous ruling to me. I would have had A end their movement prone in B's space, creating problems for B (who now has A underfoot).
But I can be kind of mean when adjudicating failures.
Having A end movement underfoot of B is outside the scope of the RAW, which state how to handled unintentional movement that ends in another's square. The way to handle it is to return to last valid square or a closer open square if there is one. But, I think that the way you've presented your treatment is aware that it's a houserule; my post more to point things out for readers looking to see how things generally happen in games other than yours. :)
Related: Does anyone else feel like as you advance in levels, using Acrobatics to avoid AoOs gradually stops working?
Example: Let's take a level 10 character trying to tumble past a CR 10 monster. This isn't a very difficult opponent in the grand scheme of things.
A CR 10 monster straight out of the Bestiary with no prep spells, class levels, or anything special in play will average CMD about 32. So, DC 32 to tumble past it and DC 37 to tumble through it. This is a pretty basic case and I'd expect the level 10 character who's cranked out acrobatics to have a pretty easy time of it.
So let's see. We'll give our tumbler an 18 DEX and only a 1 armor check penalty -- I think that's a pretty reasonable baseline.
So Acrobatics check of 10 (max ranks) + 3 (class skill) + 4 (dex) - 1 (ACP) = +16.
So he needs to roll (32 - 16) = a 16 on the D20 to tumble past the simple creature, and he can't tumble through it at all. That's not great -- a reasonably high dex, a reasonably low ACP, and a pile of skill points gets us a 1 in 4 chance to succeed at the simpler of two tasks and no chance to succeed at the harder.
If he wears Boots of Elvenkind (a pretty big sacrifice at level 10, IMHO -- to keep just to the core book, Boots of Striding and Springing or Boots of Speed are both probably much better uses for that slot for every other purpose) or picks Skill Focus: Acrobatics or the Acrobatic feat he can get it to about a 50/50 chance; he'd have to do all three (which seems unreasonable) to auto-tumble.
Put him up against an actually challenging monster for his level and it gets really ugly fast.
Overall this doesn't seem like it balances well -- either you're going all-in on Acrobatics, or you might as well just skip it entirely.
Overall this doesn't seem like it balances well -- either you're going all-in on Acrobatics, or you might as well just skip it entirely.
True. It strikes me as odd that it is an easy to move an opponent as it is to move past them. Admittedly the move past is only a move action but still I think the DC is prohibitive.
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Related: Does anyone else feel like as you advance in levels, using Acrobatics to avoid AoOs gradually stops working?
Example: Let's take a level 10 character trying to tumble past a CR 10 monster. This isn't a very difficult opponent in the grand scheme of things.
A CR 10 monster straight out of the Bestiary with no prep spells, class levels, or anything special in play will average CMD about 32. So, DC 32 to tumble past it and DC 37 to tumble through it. This is a pretty basic case and I'd expect the level 10 character who's cranked out acrobatics to have a pretty easy time of it.
So let's see. We'll give our tumbler an 18 DEX and only a 1 armor check penalty -- I think that's a pretty reasonable baseline.
So Acrobatics check of 10 (max ranks) + 3 (class skill) + 4 (dex) - 1 (ACP) = +16.
So he needs to roll (32 - 16) = a 16 on the D20 to tumble past the simple creature, and he can't tumble through it at all. That's not great -- a reasonably high dex, a reasonably low ACP, and a pile of skill points gets us a 1 in 4 chance to succeed at the simpler of two tasks and no chance to succeed at the harder.
If he wears Boots of Elvenkind (a pretty big sacrifice at level 10, IMHO -- to keep just to the core book, Boots of Striding and Springing or Boots of Speed are both probably much better uses for that slot for every other purpose) or picks Skill Focus: Acrobatics or the Acrobatic feat he can get it to about a 50/50 chance; he'd have to do all three (which seems unreasonable) to auto-tumble.
Put him up against an actually challenging monster for his level and it gets really ugly fast.
Overall this doesn't seem like it balances well -- either you're going all-in on Acrobatics, or you might as well just skip it entirely.
Not a bad analysis. A quick glance reveals that the lowest CR 10 CMD I was able to find was 27 (Kalavakus, Demon) and the highest a 40 (brachiosaurus). Indeed, even in a best case scenario, using your numbers, the PC only has a ~25% chance to move through an occupied square.
My guess is this is either planned (moving through an occupied space is supposed to be really difficult and unlikely to succeed), or unplanned, and there exists a genuine imbalance.
EDIT: At 10 ranks, with the Acrobatic Feat, you can add another +4, bringing the base modifier to +20, and increasing the "best-case-scenario" change to about 40%. Helpful, but still one hell of a challenge, which will be reduced quickly vs. tougher opponents. One option, perhaps, is to reduce the +5 DC penalty for moving through an occupied space to +2.
Paizo, your thoughts?
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True. It strikes me as odd that it is an easy to move an opponent as it is to move past them. Admittedly the move past is only a move action but still I think the DC is prohibitive.
Overall this doesn't seem like it balances well -- either you're going all-in on Acrobatics, or you might as well just skip it entirely.
I agree that the Mongoose with long pointy teeth is on to something. A highly focused character might push it a bit, but he'll still hit a wall of diminishing returns. The essential issue is that the skill is a function of n, while the CMD is a function of An, where A is greater than 1. Contrast this with SRD 3.5, where Tumble reached a point where the defender pretty much couldn't stop him. There should be a happy medium.
Looks like you got your answer already from Fenrisnorth, who is spot on. An opponent only gets one AoO for someone moving through a threatened square, per round. So, if you are willing to take an AoO from an opponent, you would take it for leaving the first threatened square. Then you can walk circles around him the rest of the round without provoking further AoOs.Not quite true. An opponent can only make one attack per opportunity. Moving out of more than one square counts as one opportunity. However, he can make that attack anytime during that opportunity.
Ex. If you think a gnoll is going to try to move between you and your ally, you don't have to take the AoO after he leaves the first square. You can take it after he leaves the second, or the third, or any threatened square he leaves that round. You only can make one attack, and if you choose not to make an attack you may not get a second chance, in which case you'd be SOL.
You don't get to choose. AoO's occur before the action actually takes place(before you leave the first square), and since you only get to attack on the first square if you don't do it then that means you are out of luck.
You don't provoke for leaving a threatened square you provoke for leaving a threatened area. The area you threatened includes every square you threaten. Each square is not its only little "attack of opportunity area".
If each square was like that then you would need multiple acrobatic checks and you could take more than one AoO for moving through multiple squares.
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Not a bad analysis. A quick glance reveals that the lowest CR 10 CMD I was able to find was 27 (Kalavakus, Demon) and the highest a 40 (brachiosaurus). Indeed, even in a best case scenario, using your numbers, the PC only has a ~25% chance to move through an occupied square.
My guess is this is either planned (moving through an occupied space is supposed to be really difficult and unlikely to succeed), or unplanned, and there exists a genuine imbalance.
EDIT: At 10 ranks, with the Acrobatic Feat, you can add another +4, bringing the base modifier to +20, and increasing the "best-case-scenario" change to about 40%. Helpful, but still one hell of a challenge, which will be reduced quickly vs. tougher opponents. One option, perhaps, is to reduce the +5 DC penalty for moving through an occupied space to +2.
In my humble opinion, the real issue with CMD and CMB is that CMD is 10+BaB+Str+Dex+Size while CMB is BaB+Str+Size (where Tiny or smaller creatures replace Str with Dex). An acrobatics skill check aside, it seems the fact that a defender gets to add Str AND Dex while the attacker only gets to add Str is unbalancing, especially at higher levels where creatures tend to have fantastic strengths. I don't doubt that this mechanic was extensively play tested, but I suddenly feel inspired to put some hypotheticals together to see what this means to the PCs. I can't help but think that many Combat Maneuvers are more likely to fail than succeed, especially as levels increase. Taking away all modifiers, there's a base 50% chance of success. Since creatures of a comparable CR are likely to have higher physical attributes than a PC, their CMD will jump disproportionately to the PCs CMB - or so it seems.
Maybe house-rule CMD to either STR or DEX, whichever is more advantageous. It's unlikely that a creature (or even a PC) would try to dodge and push off an opponent, unless they are masters of jujitsu.
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You don't get to choose. AoO's occur before the action actually takes place(before you leave the first square), and since you only get to attack on the first square if you don't do it then that means you are out of luck.
I think it's pretty much necessary to understand AoO for movement or other actions that can be subdivided to be possible at each instance of the subdivision. In the case of movement, the option must exist at each occurrence. If taking the position that only movement out of the first square provokes, Withdraw becomes much more powerful, and it becomes impossible to take an AoO for movement that starts in a non-threatened square, but which passes through a threatened square. For example, one couldn't AoO someone charging through reach or who otherwise started movement out of a threatened range. This can't be right.
The AoO takes place before the event that triggers it. Requiring that it take place before the action that triggers it introduces artifical and non-sensical situations.
Edit: The CRB text regarding when an AoO takes place is, "An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character's turn)."
The idea that it must come before the action comes from the FAQ regarding tripping, "The attack of opportunity is triggered before the action that triggered it is resolved."
Generalizing this to then say that an AoO for movement has to take place at the first square of movement only is overly broad to my thinking.
A DEX-based character at level 10 will likely have DEX 24 (DEX 20 at creation + 2 bumps at 4th and 8th level +2 enhancement bonus) and 0 Armor Penalty. Bonus on the Acrobatics check will be 10 ranks + 3 (class skill) + 7 (DEX bonus) = 20 instead of 16. That makes it 20% more likely to succeed.
First question: what kind of point buy / build would it take for someone to actually buy a 20 DEX at creation? For almost anything I can think of, the opportunity cost is way too high.
Second question: Does: "I can almost, but not quite, get to a half and half chance at success against easy monsters" invalidate the core of what I said?
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Let's see. 20 points-buy (standard for PFS).
Halfling Rogue
STR 5
DEX 20
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 11
CHA 16
2 stat boosts to DEX = 22
+2 enhancement bonus to DEX = 24
10 ranks in Acrobatics
Feats : Acrobatic + Skill Focus (Acrobatics)
Total bonus for the Acrobatics Skill = 10 (ranks) + 3 (class skill) + 2 (Halfling) + 7 (24 DEX) + 4 (Acrobatic feat) + 6 (Skill Focus feat) + 5 (Boots of Elvenkind) - 0 (ACP) = 37
This character (highly specialized in Acrobatics) needs a 3 to tumble past the CMD 40 monster's reach. A 8 to tumble through its squares.
I believe that your conclusion holds true for the average character who did not try to boost Acrobatics to the max.
But for one who really specializes in it, it is still quite feasible.
I believe that it merely reflects the general trend supported by the rules : if you want to be good at something at medium to high levels, you've got to really specialize in it.
I believe that your conclusion holds true for the average character who did not try to boost Acrobatics to the max.
You've made a character who can tumble away from the monster (and not really out of its full attack reach unless he double moves, since he's a halfling); unfortunately, he's not going to be good at basically anything else. If a normal shadow tags this guy he has a half and half chance, assuming no crit, of going straight to dead without a saving throw.
That's sort of my point. I think that's stupid. The price of being good at acrobatics (which, frankly, is not that powerful) shouldn't be having to sacrifice 1/6 of your skill points and play an otherwise trash character.
You don't get to choose. AoO's occur before the action actually takes place(before you leave the first square), and since you only get to attack on the first square if you don't do it then that means you are out of luck.You don't provoke for leaving a threatened square you provoke for leaving a threatened area. The area you threatened includes every square you threaten. Each square is not its only little "attack of opportunity area".
If each square was like that then you would need multiple acrobatic checks and you could take more than one AoO for moving through multiple squares.
This contradicts everything stated in the CRB and shown in the diagram
You don't get to choose. AoO's occur before the action actually takes place(before you leave the first square), and since you only get to attack on the first square if you don't do it then that means you are out of luck.
You don't provoke for leaving a threatened square you provoke for leaving a threatened area. The area you threatened includes every square you threaten. Each square is not its only little "attack of opportunity area".
If each square was like that then you would need multiple acrobatic checks and you could take more than one AoO for moving through multiple squares.
Each square is not its own little attack of opportunity, nor are squares after the first not considered threatened, rather moving out of subsequent squares count (together) as one opportunity.
Also, moving out of a threatened square does provoke an AoO. "Threatened Area" is not a term used in the PRD.