There was never a feminine version of Jarl..the modern equivilant would be Countess.In your case she would just be 'The Lady X..wife of Jarl Y'
Hope this helps.
Edit..Further research offers the use of Greivinna/Grevinne which is the norse form of the title 'Countess'
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There was never a feminine version of Jarl..the modern equivilant would be Countess.In your case she would just be 'The Lady X..wife of Jarl Y'
Hope this helps.
Edit..Further research offers the use of Greivinna/Grevinne which is the norse form of the title 'Countess'
Thanks. I did find Greivinna/Grevinne but they seemed to be the feminine of Greve, which I didn't want to use. Not sure why I didn't want to use it other than I like the word Jarl :) it just seems to have a more viking "feel" to it than Greve, which is so similar to the German Graf.
Lady Katen, wife of Jarl Bastijn... sounds good enough I suppose.
I could try substituting lady in another language. I am freely interchanging Dutch, Danish, Finnish, Icelandic, Norwegian, and Swedish to get the language feel I want. Sorry to native speakers of those languages :) But it works nice in an English language to create a fantasy viking flavor. :)
Most languages translate Lady as... lady (boring), but Finnish I get Nainen, or in the other languages Dam is an alternate for Lady. Maybe Dam Katen, wife of Jarl Bastijn?
Hopefully no one would pronounce it as damn! lol well maybe the Jarl does when he is mad at her. lol
The English Version is Dame...although that in itself has different connotations in the USA
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And I am thinking I may have to include a language guide in the adventure just so people know for sure what the words mean! lol
Lord I hope Google Translate isn't giving nasty words as a prank! lol
I believe "Dam" is pronounced "Dahm," from some basic German learnin'.
Finnish, Icelandic, and Dutch are all quite different. Given their isolation and some linguistic mixing, Finnish and Icelandic are the weirdest languages.
You don't have to make only one Viking land. In Golarion, the kingdoms in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings may have different naming traditions. Given that Irrisen has the Eastern Europe/Russia feel, "Viking" lands closer to Irrisen might use more of a Finnish naming tradition. Icelandic might be in the kingdom of White Estrid.
The English "Earl", which is the equivalent of "Jarl", uses "Countess" for the female partner. I suppose that would make "Grevinne" the best approximation.
If you wanted to make a feminine form of Jarl, it'd be Jarlinna/Jarlinne. Then again, it's noted that the title of White Estrid is "king" so perhaps a woman would just be called "Jarl" too.
How about "Jarla?". :-)
Sounds too much like a verb.
Finnish and Estonian are Uralic languages and are in a different family from the Northern Germanic languages such as Norse and Icelandic.
Heck, Hindi and Iranian is closer related to the Scandinavian languages than Finnish.
There is no feminine of 'me'.
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Heck, Hindi and Iranian is closer related to the Scandinavian languages than Finnish.
Meh. Knowing a few words of Swedish, I was surprised at the number of Finnish cognates. Then again, I highly doubt a Swede and Finn could understand each other if they were speaking their respective languages, so +1 to not equating Finnish with Scandinavian.
What about Frau/Frue/Vrouwe? It could mean almost the same as "Dam" ("Dame" in Dutch).
I suppose Frau/Fru or something akin to that could work, but for someone who speak a norse language... it basically just means Mrs.
Heck, Hindi and Iranian is closer related to the Scandinavian languages than Finnish.Meh. Knowing a few words of Swedish, I was surprised at the number of Finnish cognates.
That'd be 600 years of Swedish imperialism having its effect. Nevertheless, Finnish is part of the Uralic language-family (like Karelian, Estonian, and Hungarian), whereas the Scandinavian languages are Indo-European, so... a bit like equating Macedonian and Albanian. ;)
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That'd be 600 years of Swedish imperialism having its effect. Nevertheless, Finnish is part of the Uralic language-family (like Karelian, Estonian, and Hungarian), whereas the Scandinavian languages are Indo-European, so... a bit like equating Macedonian and Albanian. ;)Heck, Hindi and Iranian is closer related to the Scandinavian languages than Finnish.Meh. Knowing a few words of Swedish, I was surprised at the number of Finnish cognates.
Sorta like English and French?
Oh Lord no..English isn't quite a Germanic Language(though it's officially classed as such) or a Romance Language..it's somewhere in-between having stolen from every language it has ever come into contact with.
Which accounts for its confusing grammar..seeming confusion of syntax and all the other quirks that people learning it beat their heads against a wall over.
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Finnish and Estonian are Uralic languages and are in a different family from the Northern Germanic languages such as Norse and Icelandic.
I know they are different (though had no idea of the language families). When I use the translator they come out quite different from the the norse ones. However, I am not trying to reproduce a real language per se, but hashing together languages, words, and sounds that "feel" viking. :)
So basically for the speakers of those languages I apologize because I am hashing them horribly. lol
And I am not using Golarion at all. I am starting a very small publishing company of my own, publishing Sidetrek Adventures™. The one I am working on is called Fenrir's Fury, and I hope to develop several more fantasy viking adventures in the future. Already have them crawling around in my head.
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And I am not using Golarion at all. I am starting a very small publishing company of my own, publishing Sidetrek Adventures™. The one I am working on is called Fenrir's Fury, and I hope to develop several more fantasy viking adventures in the future. Already have them crawling around in my head.
I guess what I was suggesting was: have linguistic variations between different regions that share the same overall language. (I was using Golarion as an example.) When you get off the ground, I'll check out your adventures. <Pocketbook winces.>
Okay, here is what you do if you want an old norse feel to your words, and care about correctness. Check out icelandic. Once, the norwegian, swedish and danish languages (which are still VERY close to one another) came from one single (germanic) root. They each changed over time into what we have today, through divergence, language reforms, and political shifts. However, one (relatively) pure language remains, and that is icelandic. Use their words and you will get a pretty authentic language component to your works.
Regarding finnish: This language compared to swedish is not like english and french. It is more like english and chinese. Even so, centuries of swedish rule (up till early 1800s) has forced a good number of words into the language. It's still gobbledigook to swedes. Swedes get most of what danes and norwegians say, and vice versa. Finns? Not a chance.
Okay, here is what you do if you want an old norse feel to your words, and care about correctness. Check out icelandic. Once, the norwegian, swedish and danish languages (which are still VERY close to one another) came from one single (germanic) root. They each changed over time into what we have today, through divergence, language reforms, and political shifts. However, one (relatively) pure language remains, and that is icelandic. Use their words and you will get a pretty authentic language component to your works.
Regarding finnish: This language compared to swedish is not like english and french. It is more like english and chinese. Even so, centuries of swedish rule (up till early 1800s) has forced a good number of words into the language. It's still gobbledigook to swedes. Swedes get most of what danes and norwegians say, and vice versa. Finns? Not a chance.
Well, we do tend to get the swearwords. ;) (Besides, it's not like the Finns are that talkative anyway. As far as I know, they're the only people on Earth who think of Swedes as "chatty" and "too darn garulous.")
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Oh Lord no..English isn't quite a Germanic Language(though it's officially classed as such) or a Romance Language..it's somewhere in-between having stolen from every language it has ever come into contact with.
Which accounts for its confusing grammar..seeming confusion of syntax and all the other quirks that people learning it beat their heads against a wall over.
Old English is Germanic. Current English is a beast.
I was going to suggest Jarlinna myself. Seems there was never a good female analog. In some cases it was countess and in others Princess.
For some reason, the term, "She-jarl" sounds suitably pulpy and fantastic. Queen is "drottning" in Old Norse. Perhaps Jarlsfru, but that means a jarl's consort. An Yfirdrottning is a sovereign queen so a female Jarl in her own right might be an Yfirjarlsfru.
Yes, a people who think us swedes are "chatty"... it boggles the mind.
To answer the original question: The title is jarl. If a woman managed to get it, her title would be jarl as well. Note that this deals with a region where the feudalistic system of say, Britain, never was adopted. Things were never so formal, but instead much more touch and go. It could certainly have been possible that a woman could get a noble title, too.
Anyone know what the feminine title of a Jarl is? I have the Jarl written up, and am now working on his wife. Somehow I figure Jarlissa just isn't right :)
Thanks for any help
Could it be...YAARL?
This is something that's come up for us with the Jade Regent Adventure Path, too. We don't have anything set in canon, and in the interest of simplicity, decided that a jarl is a jarl, regardless of gender, and that being a jarl's consort doesn't grant you a title, but people would address you respectfully as Lord or Lady as is appropriate.
That said, if your players are into more historical detail, Old Norse and Icelandic would indeed be good sources to borrow from!
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the term comes from a strictly patriarchal society that did not recognise the right of women to rule or even head a household. Women who took on such roles did so only by becomeing recognised as men.
And yet these same women were the leaders of Religious rites within the household, had the right to Divorce for cause, the right to their own property within marriage and the right to inherit.Also upon a divorce they had custody of the children.
Also who do you think headed the household when the men went a-viking
More importantly, whether the people who came up with the title were misogynists or not only matters if the person using it is planning to copy their attitudes in his own world. If not, there are rules for how you make a Scandinavian noun "feminine," to be used if needed.
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the term comes from a strictly patriarchal society that did not recognise the right of women to rule or even head a household. Women who took on such roles did so only by becomeing recognised as men.
And yet these same women were the leaders of Religious rites within the household, had the right to Divorce for cause, the right to their own property within marriage and the right to inherit.Also upon a divorce they had custody of the children.
Also who do you think headed the household when the men went a-viking
And then, there are the Sköldmö or Skjoldmaer. Semi-mythical, but with historical examples.
More importantly, whether the people who came up with the title were misogynists or not only matters if the person using it is planning to copy their attitudes in his own world. If not, there are rules for how you make a Scandinavian noun "feminine," to be used if needed.
Usually you add an 'a' at the end, at least for swedish.
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More importantly, whether the people who came up with the title were misogynists or not only matters if the person using it is planning to copy their attitudes in his own world. If not, there are rules for how you make a Scandinavian noun "feminine," to be used if needed.Usually you add an 'a' at the end, at least for swedish.
I thought swedish had eliminated the feminine / masculine distinction and now only had neuter or "gendered" words - en words and ett words. Wouldn't adding an a make it a verb like adding "ing" would in english?
Where's my copy of svenska utifrån...
More importantly, whether the people who came up with the title were misogynists or not only matters if the person using it is planning to copy their attitudes in his own world. If not, there are rules for how you make a Scandinavian noun "feminine," to be used if needed.Usually you add an 'a' at the end, at least for swedish.I thought swedish had eliminated the feminine / masculine distinction and now only had neuter or "gendered" words - en words and ett words. Wouldn't adding an a make it a verb like adding "ing" would in english?
Where's my copy of svenska utifrån...
There's no official feminine/masculine distinction in Swedish, however, if you put an "a" on the end of an adjective preceding a noun, that'll make the noun appear feminine; if you want masculine, tag on an "e."
For nouns, you'd have to do a bit more* usually adding -ina/-inna, such as in "hertiginna" (a female duke, though, with history being a place largely run by men, usually just a duke's wife).
*this being a language-rule, there's obviously plenty of exceptions (usually loanwords like servitris or dansös), such as Johan/Johanna, but normally, adding just an "a" to the end of a nound is more likely to make it sound like a verb. Fisk-fiska (a fish-fish for something), disk-diska (dishes-do the dishes), and so on.
And this was probably too garbled to make anything clearer, but it's the best I can manage at the moment. *mutters*...bloody overheated apartment sucking the brain-juices out of me.
There's no official feminine/masculine distinction in Swedish, however, if you put an "a" on the end of an adjective preceding a noun, that'll make the noun appear feminine; if you want masculine, tag on an "e."For nouns, you'd have to do a bit more* usually adding -ina/-inna, such as in "hertiginna" (a female duke, though, with history being a place largely run by men, usually just a duke's wife).
*this being a language-rule, there's obviously plenty of exceptions (usually loanwords like servitris or dansös), such as Johan/Johanna, but normally, adding just an "a" to the end of a nound is more likely to make it sound like a verb. Fisk-fiska (a fish-fish for something), disk-diska (dishes-do the dishes), and so on.
And this was probably too garbled to make anything clearer, but it's the best I can manage at the moment. *mutters*...bloody overheated apartment sucking the brain-juices out of me.
That's actually a pretty nice bit of linguistics education you gave there, Kajehase. I found it interesting. Thanks!