What animal companion has the best synergy with an archery focused Ranger?
I would say something that can trip or use some other form of crowd control to keep opponents away from the ranger. Wolves are good at low level.
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What animal companion has the best synergy with an archery focused Ranger?I would say something that can trip or use some other form of crowd control to keep opponents away from the ranger. Wolves are good at low level.
I'm going to disagree with the choice of tripping companions.
Yes tripping does slow down how quickly the opponent can get to you to lay the smack down but prone opponents are a LOT harder to hit (the get +4 vs your ranged attacks).Now if you really want a beneficial companion I'd recommend a Horse.
It's fast, tough and large, you can get a full attack action every round while keeping your distance from all foes. It's welcome in any town or settlement and in combat it can provide you cover from enemy attacks as well as a flat +1 to hit on all your attacks while mounted.
Add to that it's pretty decent in combat on it's own with 3 natural attacks (bite/Hoof/Hoof).
If you're concerned about not being able to use it indoors then take a look at the Riding Dog. you'd have to play a small sized PC but you'd still get the mobility, full attacks every round, +1 to hit and universally welcome in any settlement. Plus higher AC for it and you and cheaper to buy gear for.
Roc
Flying mount Rain death from above.
If you're concerned about not being able to use it indoors then take a look at the Riding Dog. you'd have to play a small sized PC but you'd still get the mobility, full attacks every round, +1 to hit and universally welcome in any settlement. Plus higher AC for it and you and cheaper to buy gear for.
How does the Horse give +1 to hit sorry? Just in case I'm missing something in my game.
How does the Horse give +1 to hit sorry? Just in case I'm missing something in my game.
If you're concerned about not being able to use it indoors then take a look at the Riding Dog. you'd have to play a small sized PC but you'd still get the mobility, full attacks every round, +1 to hit and universally welcome in any settlement. Plus higher AC for it and you and cheaper to buy gear for.
all small get +1 to hit
Now if you really want a beneficial companion I'd recommend a Horse.
It's fast, tough and large, you can get a full attack action every round while keeping your distance from all foes. It's welcome in any town or settlement and in combat it can provide you cover from enemy attacks as well as a flat +1 to hit on all your attacks while mounted.
Oops I quoted the wrong part, I meant to quote the above section. How does riding give a +1 to hit?
Attacking from higher ground, perhaps? I've heard it mentioned before.
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all small get +1 to hitHow does the Horse give +1 to hit sorry? Just in case I'm missing something in my game.
If you're concerned about not being able to use it indoors then take a look at the Riding Dog. you'd have to play a small sized PC but you'd still get the mobility, full attacks every round, +1 to hit and universally welcome in any settlement. Plus higher AC for it and you and cheaper to buy gear for.
True but not the question that was asked.
Being mounted puts you on higher ground vs. your opponents (usually) and that gives you a +1.@Tom S Roc is a great choice but you can't ride them until they become large sized so that could take awhile.
Go with the Horse and mounted combat, if you need to go indoors, use a wand of reduce person on yourself and use link spell to have it affect your horse and rain firy death on your enemies.
A mounted archer is the best kind of archer. Any other companion will just get in the way.
I am currently playing a mounted archer Goblin Paladin who rides a boar. It's the most fun I've ever had. Aside from the RP fun, my damage output is impressive since I'm always taking full attacks, the smaller size means I can go anywhere, and the speed of the boar means I'm usually out of serious danger (which is good cuz my HPs suck).
It's welcome in any town or settlement and in combat it can provide you cover from enemy attacks as well as a flat +1 to hit on all your attacks while mounted.
Add to that it's pretty decent in combat on it's own with 3 natural attacks (bite/Hoof/Hoof).you get full attacks every round, +1 to hit and universally welcome in any settlement. Plus higher AC for it and you and cheaper to buy gear for.
Don't you need the mounted skirmisher feat to make full attacks while mounted?
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It's welcome in any town or settlement and in combat it can provide you cover from enemy attacks as well as a flat +1 to hit on all your attacks while mounted.
Add to that it's pretty decent in combat on it's own with 3 natural attacks (bite/Hoof/Hoof).you get full attacks every round, +1 to hit and universally welcome in any settlement. Plus higher AC for it and you and cheaper to buy gear for.
Don't you need the mounted skirmisher feat to make full attacks while mounted?
That feat is for making a Melee full attack action not a ranged one.
Here's the relevant text from the core book.
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple
speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll
when your mount has completed half its movement. You can
make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is
moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
The best animal companion for a ranger (especially at 10+ level) is the small cat and the roc, both of them have 3 attack (remember the animal companion gets your favored enemy bonuses).
Now the roc has better STR than the small cat and a higher AC but the small cat has better hitpoints, the roc can fly but the small cat has a 50 ft. speed and sprint, the small cat has trip the roc has grab (remember the bestiary 2 stealth errata to grab), the small cat has scent, both of them have low light vision, the roc becomes large (which means that you can ride it) but sometimes the large size becomes a problem the small cat on the other hand becomes medium which means that it fits everywhere, the roc might also have some problems with non-high ceilings.
IMO opinion they are both good choices for the ranger and i can't decide which one of them is better than the other but i can tell with some certainty that they are the best choices than pretty much everything else the ranger can get as an animal companion.
Could you provide a PRD link for that please. I have not seen that in the Core or APG rule books and just looked again to make sure.
This would make my choice of animal companion so much easier in two levels,
thanks
-- david
Papa.DRB
The best animal companion for a ranger (especially at 10+ level) is the small cat and the roc, both of them have 3 attack (remember the animal companion gets your favored enemy bonuses).
Could you provide a PRD link for that please. I have not seen that in the Core or APG rule books and just looked again to make sure.
This would make my choice of animal companion so much easier in two levels,
thanks
-- david
Papa.DRBThe best animal companion for a ranger (especially at 10+ level) is the small cat and the roc, both of them have 3 attack (remember the animal companion gets your favored enemy bonuses).
I am not sure if you mean selecting a roc as an animal companion or the animal companion taking the favored enemy bonuses, anyway here are both of them:
Roc animal companion:Bolded part mine.
Favored enemy bonus to animal companion:
Bolded part mine.
PS i said 10th level because that's when a ranger's animal companion gets bigger a.k.a. it evolves.
all small get +1 to hitHow does the Horse give +1 to hit sorry? Just in case I'm missing something in my game.
If you're concerned about not being able to use it indoors then take a look at the Riding Dog. you'd have to play a small sized PC but you'd still get the mobility, full attacks every round, +1 to hit and universally welcome in any settlement. Plus higher AC for it and you and cheaper to buy gear for.
True but not the question that was asked.
Being mounted puts you on higher ground vs. your opponents (usually) and that gives you a +1.@Tom S Roc is a great choice but you can't ride them until they become large sized so that could take awhile.
Go with the Horse and mounted combat, if you need to go indoors, use a wand of reduce person on yourself and use link spell to have it affect your horse and rain firy death on your enemies.
Wand Reduce Person and UMD all good archer should have that. +2 AC +1 to hit and in pathfinder damage gose back to normal after shot leaves you hand.
Small ranger can ride the Roc as soon as he get it ie level 4th.
+ 1 to hit for small, + 1 to hit for higher ground sound like it counters Rapidshot -2 to me pretty well.I have seen the druid version of this drop Sommum Natures Ally in the back field like para troopers with build then switch to fire support in the later rounds.
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The best animal companion for a ranger (especially at 10+ level) is the small cat and the roc, both of them have 3 attack (remember the animal companion gets your favored enemy bonuses).
Now the roc has better STR than the small cat and a higher AC but the small cat has better hitpoints, the roc can fly but the small cat has a 50 ft. speed and sprint, the small cat has trip the roc has grab (remember the bestiary 2 stealth errata to grab), the small cat has scent, both of them have low light vision, the roc becomes large (which means that you can ride it) but sometimes the large size becomes a problem the small cat on the other hand becomes medium which means that it fits everywhere, the roc might also have some problems with non-high ceilings.IMO opinion they are both good choices for the ranger and i can't decide which one of them is better than the other but i can tell with some certainty that they are the best choices than pretty much everything else the ranger can get as an animal companion.
I'm gonna argue with you on those choices here. I find them a sub-optimal choice for a Ranger, especially versus a Horse or a Wolf.
Basic comparison:
Cat, Small
Size Small; Speed 50 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4 plus trip), 2 claws (1d2);
Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 21, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special
Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6 plus trip), 2 claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2;
Special Qualities sprint
Horse
Size Large; Speed 50 ft.; AC +4 natural armor;
Attack bite (1d4), 2 hooves* (1d6);
Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6;
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con
+2; Special Qualities combat trained
Wolf
Size Medium; Speed 50 ft.; AC +2 natural armor;
Attack bite (1d6 plus trip);
Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6;
Special Qualities scent.
7th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural
armor; Attack bite (1d8 plus trip); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex
–2, Con +4.
Right off the bat you can see the other 2 options start off larger and have more hitpoints, better Attacks (horse has 3 attacks with larger hit dice and a better plus on hit and damage +3 vs the cats +1).
The cat has trip which is bad for the archer build (-4 for archer to hit) and will rarely hit (CMB +1) for the Melee and can't help either spec with tracking or invisible opponents, (no scent). the cat will have to spend it's first 2 feats to catch up to the other options (Agile maneuvers for it's CMB and weapon finess to get it's Attack bonus).
The advancement actually makes it worse since it's dex drops and it's now needing to build for Strength based damage instead of dex.
The horse gets stronger and tougher with no penalties, still welcome in any town and has a diet that makes it easy and cheap to keep fed. PLUS it's crazy easy to replace.
Or you could go the wolf route now, when it advances it becomes a pure combat machine (22 Str, 19 Con, 1.5x damage on it's attack) with a massive CMB to trip (+13), it's still ride-able to keep your mobility up or you can use it as a powerful flank buddy who has the HP's and armor bonus to take a hit or two when needed.
The Small cat is just a bad deal.
Pretty, but ineffective for this job.
The Roc on the other hand looks like a great choice but is restricted from ever going into a town, building or dungeon. can't provide a flanking bonus, requires you to burn two feats to be able to to do damage while mounted on it (Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery) Can't be disguised as anything but what it is and is almost completely useless when grounded.
How about something that can hit them fast and draw their attention, allowing the ranger to snipe? Like a falcon or eagle?
It was the latter (favored enemy bonus) and I have read that paragraph I don't know how many times and missed it. Thanks!
-- david
Papa.DRB
Favored enemy bonus to animal companion:
** spoiler omitted **PS i said 10th level because that's when a ranger's animal companion gets bigger a.k.a. it evolves.
@Mathwei ap Niall
First of all i was talking about 10+ level rangers, and second why are you so set on riding your mount in battle? Both the switch hitter ranger and the archer ranger don't have the feats to spare until very high levels.
Why the roc can't provide flanking bonuses? It's not anymore useless in a dungeon or a town than a wolf would be. Why do you think that it's useless when it's grounded?
Now about the horse:
First of all you know that the combat trained doesn't give you armor proficiencies anymore right? (it was errata'd) so you just get a few more tricks.
Yes the horse has 3 attacks but two of them are secondary attacks but both the small cat and the roc have 3 primary attacks.
How is a horse any easier to replace than a cat or a wolf? (nearly all of the animal companions are easy to replace)
The cat has scent.
Yes the cat might not be so good at the first levels (since it requires weapon finnesse) but again i was talking about level 10+.
The trip at high levels has a very low chance to work (due to bigger/flying/high CMD opponents) even for the wolf so yes i can understand that for the archer it can be a problem (the -4 for the target being prone) but most times you can just eat it up since the trip just denied the opponent a full attack (or hindered it).
Yes the wolf has more hitpoints i will give you that and yes it has a higher AC but from personal experience the more often than not the animal companion's AC isn't something big unless you drop quite a bit of money on that.
You know that you have the ability to change the feats of your animal companion right? You just dismiss the one you have and call another.
So the cat's problem of switching to STR is non existant, since when it grows you just replace the feats with the ones a STR creature would need.
So the horse is pretty much the worse choice unless you count such a big benefit that it doesn't give out the fact that it's an animal companion.
Now between the wolf and the cat, yes the wolf has more hitpoints, +5 STR, more AC and a better chance to trip but at higher levels only the first two is a realistic benefit. Now on the downside the wolf has one primary attack and at some point it gains one secondary attack.
The cat compared to the wolf has 3 primary attacks, less hitpoints, -5 STR, also it has the good of being medium and going wherever you go.
So you have to decide what you prefer more attacks(3 primary) at a -2/-3 (compared to the wolf) and less hitpoints OR less attacks (1 primary and 1 secondary) and a +2/+3 and more hitpoints. (again remember that your animal companion gets your favored enemy bonus so with more attacks it means more damage).
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@Mathwei ap Niall
First of all i was talking about 10+ level rangers, and second why are you so set on riding your mount in battle? Both the switch hitter ranger and the archer ranger don't have the feats to spare until very high levels.
Why the roc can't provide flanking bonuses? It's not anymore useless in a dungeon or a town than a wolf would be. Why do you think that it's useless when it's grounded?
Now about the horse:
First of all you know that the combat trained doesn't give you armor proficiencies anymore right? (it was errata'd) so you just get a few more tricks.
Yes the horse has 3 attacks but two of them are secondary attacks but both the small cat and the roc have 3 primary attacks.
How is a horse any easier to replace than a cat or a wolf? (nearly all of the animal companions are easy to replace)The cat has scent.
Yes the cat might not be so good at the first levels (since it requires weapon finnesse) but again i was talking about level 10+.
The trip at high levels has a very low chance to work (due to bigger/flying/high CMD opponents) even for the wolf so yes i can understand that for the archer it can be a problem (the -4 for the target being prone) but most times you can just eat it up since the trip just denied the opponent a full attack (or hindered it).
Yes the wolf has more hitpoints i will give you that and yes it has a higher AC but from personal experience the more often than not the animal companion's AC isn't something big unless you drop quite a bit of money on that.You know that you have the ability to change the feats of your animal companion right? You just dismiss the one you have and call another.
So the cat's problem of switching to STR is non existant, since when it grows you just replace the feats with the ones a STR creature would need.So the horse is pretty much the worse choice unless you count such a big benefit that it doesn't give out the fact that it's an animal companion.
Now between the wolf and the cat, yes the wolf has more...
1). I focused on riding the mount since for an archery focused Ranger maintaining distance while still getting full attacks was the primary goal. Mounted combat is the most effective and cheapest way to do that and since it doesn't require ANY feats to do it I find it even better. (you only need those feats if you intend to attack WHILE moving, attack on your turn and move on the horses)
2). And I'd rather have the tricks instead of the armor training since there is no significant penalty to using light armor untrained on a AC.
3). Yes the horses hooves are secondary attacks that hit harder then the cat's primary attacks and are still more likely to hit then the cats primary attacks (Horse gets Multi-attack so it's a -2 which still makes it's +hit higher then the cats and it's damage dice and damage bonus twice as good) especially when it's combat abilities are not why I picked it.
4). Trained horses can be freely purchased in any town with a GP limit over 100GP, Exotic companions like Wolves & Cats require being in their terrain or being at the discretion of your DM and they will NEVER come pre-trained.
You are correct, the cat has scent my mistake there.
5). As for the trip it's unlikely to work at low levels and is ineffective at high levels and ALWAYS makes attacking more difficult for the archer so I fail to see why he'd want it. What else does the Cat have to replace it with ?
Poor Damage, no mounted ability, no item manipulation, poor AC but it can run away quickly.
Dismissing the pet and getting another one is definitely an option but again see point #4 above. Do-able but inconvenient and time consuming, your looking at 6 weeks down time training the new one while the horse is instantly ready.
In an RP situation or even a normal realistic town the guy who is sneaking into town on a horse draws a LOT less attention then the guy with the 800 lb tiger, but your DM may gloss over that fact, mine doesn't.
The Horse & Wolf is a solid, all around, flexible pet able to be a total asset for a Ranged Archer (keeps him out of melee while still full attacking), or Melee Ranger (ride it to melee range and fast dismount so you can full attack the same round).
The wolf has:
9 more strength (10 if you count it's level 4 bonus) for 6-11 more damage an attack over the cat,
Higher base damage die (d8 vs d6/d3),
a higher hit bonus (+2 to +4 more than the cat)
20 more hit points,
More feats (since it doesn't need to buy agile maneuvers/weapon finesse)
Can be ridden so ups the Rangers mobility,
Easier to acquire (Wolves are native to more terrains then the cat),
Better Trip chance (Large size gives it a bonus and more targets legal to trip)
Better CMB & CMD
Overall the cat is just an inferior choice, it does less damage has less chance to hit and fewer hit points. Doesn't add anything to the Ranger's personal abilities and actually makes some of them worse.
If you where describing the Big Cat you'd have a point but the small one is a bad joke.
My preference is always going to be the Wolf (for the higher speed and Con), Followed by the Big Cat (for the pounce and Rake) for a melee Ranger, while for Archery Rangers the Horse followed by the Wolf for mobility and HP's to suck up return fire and provide cover.
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Just her to pitch in my 2 cp and share the fruits of my labour...
So I am trying to decide what animal companion to choose for my ranger. Found this thread and a ranged guide and because I didn't find a conclusive answer (not to mention that my preferences might be differ) I decided to stat the possible animals.
I am comparing the Small Cat and Wolf animal compantions because I'm limited to the list mentioned Hunter's Bond description and disregarded the others because of personal preference, obvious inferiority and incomparability with the campaign setting.
Because I had the wolf pick up armor proficiency I decided to also give them barding. Because I've got no idea of the character wealth by level in pathfinder I just bought what seemed right.
First off the animal companion at lvl 4 (when you acquire it).
** spoiler omitted **...
You made a few errors, you forgot to add in the Wolf's correct strength modifier (it gets 1.5 * its strength on damage) it also doesn't need to take armor proficiency since the only penalty is a -2 to a few skills on the armor you chose. Freeing it up to take Weapon Focus equaling the Cat's Bab and the 7th level doesn't take into account the Boon Companion feat.
Which kicks the wolf up to where he gets Multi Attack for 2 attacks doing 1D8+9.
Improved Drag ? Why? Take Cleave, Ability Focus (trip) and Vital Strike to really put the hurt on.
Overall you are correct on a few points, the cat IS better then the wolf at low levels but worse then the Horse, big cat, raptor, etc. That's more along the problems of the Wolf then any superiority for the cat. Once 7th level advancement hits the wolf really becomes an amazing choice.
One small extra advantage to the wolf I'd like to add in: Because all of its damage is coming from the one natural weapon, Greater Magic Fang can give it a substantial bonus to that one attack.
One thing I would like to add that appears to have changes in the switch to Pathfinder from 3.5 is you no longer gain +1 to ranged attacks from higher ground. (Table right hand corner, it is in the core book forget which page)
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A Bird or Roc picking up the Flyby Attack feat can be useful for an archer who doesn't want to spend one of his own feats on Precise Shot / Improved Precise Shot, as the flyer can strike and then get clear, allowing the ranger to use ranged attacks without the -4 penalty / cover problem.
But a Cat with a decent Acrobatics score can probably slide around a target pretty fast without provoking an AoO, also getting out of the way of archery fire.
@Mathwei ap Niall
1)But that way you are lowering your damage output, if you don't have your animal companion out there attacking then it doesn't do any damage.
2)A few bonus tricks? Seriously? A benefit that goes away when the animal companion gets INT 3?
3)How does the horse has more +hit higher than the cat? after they both grow, the horse has 18 STR and the cat 16 STR that means +1 to hit and +1 to damage, now since the secondary attacks of the horse are at -2 to hit compared to the cat's the difference in STR takes the difference to -1 to hit for the horses secondary attacks, you know what's more the secondary attacks add half the STR bonus to damage and half from power attack (-1/+1), so the cat isn't behind in the damage at all, in fact it's ahead.
4)First i never asked for pre-trained animal companion (but remember it has the bonus tricks). Now what are talking about? You can not buy an animal and select that to be your animal companion, you do the 24 hour ritual and it comes.
5)Yes the trip of the cat is less likely to work both at low and at high levels (for different reasons) but as you have pointed out the archer ranger doesn't really want the trip. Yes the cat has fewer hitpoints but the damage isn't less, after this post i will run some DPR for a 10th level ranger for the cat and the wolf and post it here.
The ranger can't get a tiger only a cheetah or a leopard but yes i agree with you on the horse getting a lot less attention but the leopard doesn't draw any more attention than the druid's tiger.
How does the wolf has +9 STR over the cat, it has +5 STR over the cat. Again i am talking for 10+ level ranger. You are wrong about the available terrain, the leopards are native to "any forest" and the wolves are native to "cold or temperate forests".
Now let's run some numbers. I am going to do a 10th level ranger's wolf and a small cat and am going to calculate DPR once against favored enemy and once against non favored enemy. I am not going to use equipment on neither one of the at first post since that is easier.
I have run some numbers.
Now i have done the wolf, the small cat and the horse of a 10th level ranger with no boon companion. The target AC number is AC 24. And the companion have no equipment, if you want we can set a number of gold pieces that the ranger will spend for his companion. The free ability score increase has went to INT for all three so that i don't have to worry about tricks anymore. The ranger's favored enemy is +6. The bonuses of a 7th level animal companion are (already calculated):
HD 6
BAB +4
Feats: 3
N.A. +4
STR/DEX +2
Wolf
hp: 57(27+24+6)
AC: 19 (10+2+8-1)
STR 23 (+6)
DEX 15 (+2)
CON 19 (+4)
INT 3
WIS 12
CHA 6
+8 N.A.
CMB: +11 (+12 for trip)
CMD: 23
feats: Power Attack, weapon focus (bite), toughness
Attack routine:
bite +11 (+9 PA) 1d8+9 (1d8+15 PA)
DPR:
without PA and no favored 5.67
with PA but no favored 6.1425
with PA and favored enemy 16,065
Small Cat
hp: 45(27+12+6)
AC: 20 (10+5+5)
STR 18 (+4)
DEX 21 (+5)
CON 15 (+2)
INT 3
WIS 12
CHA 6
+5 N.A.
CMB: +8 (+9 for trip)
CMD: 23
feats: Power attack, weapon focus (bite), toughness
Attack routine:
bite +9 (+7 PA) 1d6+4 (1d6+8 PA), claw +8 (+6 PA) 1d3+4 (1d3+8 PA), claw +8 (+6 PA) 1d3+4 (1d3+8 PA)
DPR:
without PA and no favored 5.25
with PA but no favored 5.4075
with PA and favored enemy 23.835
Horse
hp: 45(27+12+6)
AC: 19(10+2+8-1)
STR 20 (+5)
DEX 15 (+2)
CON 15 (+2)
INT 3
WIS 12
CHA 6
+8 N.A.
CMB: +10
CMD: 22
feats: Power attack, weapon focus (bite), toughness
Attack routine:
bite +10 (+8 PA) 1d4+5 (1d4+9 PA), hoove* +4 (+2 PA) 1d6+2 (1d6+4), hoove* +4 (+2 PA) 1d6+2 (1d6+4)
DPR:
without PA and no favored 3,33375
with PA but no favored 3.80625
with PA and favored enemy 17.19375
So i think that we can see which animal companion does more damage. If you want we can set a number of gold pieces that the ranger will give for it's animal companion, remember that the expected wealth by level of a 10th level character is 62.000 gp.
The Roc on the other hand looks like a great choice but is restricted from ever going into a town, building or dungeon. can't provide a flanking bonus, requires you to burn two feats to be able to do damage while mounted on it (Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery) Can't be disguised as anything but what it is and is almost completely useless when grounded.
Mounted Combat is for Defense of the Mount. Mounted Archery is only use full if you double moved and full attack. If you single move and full attack you are fine. Or double move and single attack fine.
“Can’t provide flank” Why not? And why do you care you are an Archer?
As far as town/ dungeon it the Roc is Medium till level 7 then it is large. So if you fit so dose Roc. As far as wild animal and towns folks only Horse/Pony, Riding dog/ dog, Camel, Bird, Cow/ Water Buffalo is going to get by the “town test”. Anything else no way is it passing. And as far that is concerned nothing is going inside town building as far as the folk is concerned. Get you horse out of the bar cowboy.
“Disguise” well I never though of trying to but I guess you cold try to as any other bird Ie eagle, hawk, raven, ect or Big Yellow Bird….
And is not as effective on the ground as when it flying true, but the point is for you ride as it fly at level 1. Most folk can not start fling till level 5 with a spell or much latter with equipment. This cost at lest than Winged Boots 16,000 gp, Broom of Flying 17,000 gp,
Cloak of the Bat 26,000 gp, Carpet of Flying 20,000 gp, 35,000 gp, 60,000 gp. Which means it cost 29K on average to fly in D&D
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I have run some numbers.
Now i have done the wolf, the small cat and the horse of a 10th level ranger with no boon companion. The target AC number is AC 24. And the companion have no equipment, if you want we can set a number of gold pieces that the ranger will spend for his companion. The free ability score increase has went to INT for all three so that i don't have to worry about tricks anymore. The ranger's favored enemy is +6. The bonuses of a 7th level animal companion are (already calculated):
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
DPR:
without PA and no favored 5.67
with PA but no favored 6.1425
with PA and favored enemy 16,065** spoiler omitted **
DPR:
without PA and no favored 5.25
with PA but no favored 5.4075
with PA and favored enemy 23.835** spoiler omitted **
DPR:
without PA and no favored 3,33375
with PA but no favored 3.80625
with PA and favored enemy 17.19375So i think that we can see which animal...
Well first the Int at 3 trick you are using doesn't work anymore per the official Blog post. A AC with Int 3 just gets more tricks now and you still need to use Handle Animal to get it to do anything that isn't a trained trick.
Second any Ranger who doesn't take Boon companion by 10th and expects his AC to contribute is a fool. With those assumptions fixed
HD 9
BAB +6
Feats: 5
N.A. +6
STR/DEX +3
Wolf
hp: 86(50+36)
AC: 26 (10+3+8+6-1)
STR 26 (+8)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 19 (+4)
INT 2
WIS 12
CHA 6
+8 N.A.
CMB: +14 (+17 for trip)
CMD: 28
feats: Power Attack, weapon focus (bite), Vital Strike, Improved Natural Attack, Ability Focus (trip) MultiAttack (free)
Attack routine:
bite +15/+13 (+13/+12 PA) 2d6+12 (2d6+18 PA) (4D6+18 PA+VS)
without PA and no favored 26.83 (18.11 single attack)
with PA but no favored 25.25
with PA and favored enemy 58.01 (24.36 Single Attack)
with PA, VS and FE 29.96
The vital strike may seem like a bad idea but the 1st Level wand of Enlarge Person you use on it each fight makes it an amazing feat and the improved version you get at 15th level makes it awesome.
Horse
hp: 94(50+36+6)
AC: 22(10+3+4+6-1)
STR 21 (+5)
DEX 16 (+3)
CON 18 (+4)
INT 2
WIS 12
CHA 6
+4 N.A.
CMB: +12 (16 overrun)
CMD: 25
feats: Power attack, weapon focus (Hooves), toughness, Improved Overrun, Greater Overrun, MultiAttack (free)
Attack routine:
bite +12 (+10 PA) 1d4+5 (1d4+9 PA), hoove* +11 (+9 PA) 1d6+2 (1d6+4), hoove* +11 (+9 PA) 1d6+2 (1d6+4)
*It will spend it's turn overrunning every target knocking them prone and taking AoO's against them while keeping it's distance.
Small Cat
hp: 74(50+18+6)
AC: 23 (10+6+7)
STR 19 (+4)
DEX 22 (+6)
CON 16 (+3)
INT 2
WIS 12
CHA 6
+6 N.A.
CMB: +12 (+13 for trip)
CMD: 26
feats: Power attack, weapon focus (bite & Claws), toughness +1 feat of your choice
Attack routine:
bite +13 (+11 PA) 1d6+4 (1d6+8 PA), claw +113 (+11 PA) 1d3+4 (1d3+8 PA), claw +13 (+11 PA) 1d3+4 (1d3+8 PA)
without PA and no favored 16.93(4.99 single attack)
with PA but no favored 20.50 (6.51 Single Attack)
with PA and favored enemy 54.44 (15.80 Single Attack)
Ouch, that cat sucks for damage and has no utility to add to the rangers abilities.
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Roc
Flying mount Rain death from above.
agree. most helpful companion ever. flying mount lets you save a whole lot of feats (i.e. you won't need anything like mobility and dodge or any other AC boosting feat anymore; mounted combat and mounted archery then pool all feats in archery feats)
a player back in my LoF campaign did a ranger with flying mount; A) he never got targeted by any attacks; B) spellcasting was very useful for him, so his decent wisdom of 14 was very helpful, as it's cool when you can dish some spells from above during the times that you're not being effective with arrows (i.e. whether the foes are not favored enemies or when they are protected vs. arrows); C) of course, the mount had flyby attack, wingover, hover, improved natural AC, dodge, mobility, etc. basically it's just a flying car so its attacks don't matter... it's just a vehicle for the ranger to rain HIS death from above... so hit the mount with blur/displacement/blink whenever you can, and take the following feat
Improved Share Spells
You can share spells with those you have a magical
connection with.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 10 ranks, ability to acquire an
animal companion, eidolon, familiar, or special mount.
Benefit: Any non-instantaneous spell (but not any
spell-like ability) you cast on yourself can also affect a
creature bonded to you (such as an animal companion,
eidolon, familiar, or special mount). The creature must
be within 5 feet of you at the time of casting to receive
the benefit. The spell’s duration is halved between you
and your bonded creature (for example, a spell with a
duration of 1 hour has a duration of 30 minutes for both
you and your bonded creature).
If the spell or effect has a duration other than
instantaneous, it stops affecting the creature if it moves
farther than 5 feet away from you. It does not affect the
creature again if it returns before the duration expires.
You may share spells in this fashion even if the spells
normally do not affect creatures of that type.
This feat only applies to animal companions, eidolons,
familiars, or special mounts gained through a class feature.
A headband of Int +2 keyed to spellcraft will help you bypass the 10 ranks of Spellcraft requirement...
Honestly, I'd go with a lion. I used a Boon Companion'd lion with my 9th level Ranger and I was getting around 200 DPR. Also, in addition to ripping bad guys to ribbons with his claws, you can also have your lion grapple and pin opponents which is icing on the cake. One less enemy to worry about.
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Honestly, I'd go with a lion. I used a Boon Companion'd lion with my 9th level Ranger and I was getting around 200 DPR. Also, in addition to ripping bad guys to ribbons with his claws, you can also have your lion grapple and pin opponents which is icing on the cake. One less enemy to worry about.
Only problem with that is Lions are not legal Ranger Companions.
Rangers are restricted to Small Cats, big ones are druid only.
Well first the Int at 3 trick you are using doesn't work anymore per the official Blog post. A AC with Int 3 just gets more tricks now and you still need to use Handle Animal to get it to do anything that isn't a trained trick.
Can i have a link to that?
I will check you numbers tommorow (it's REALLY late here) but from a quick look i can see that you have made some mistakes in the wolf's attacks.
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Only problem with that is Lions are not legal Ranger Companions.
Rangers are restricted to Small Cats, big ones are druid only.
true, but I think these restrictions are bogus... when a class with animal companion feature (druid) takes another class with animal companion feature (ranger or cavalier let's say), must they suddenly make cat chow with their old animal companion because the new class puts a restriction on the companion selection?
Who thought about restricting an already meh ability like Animal Companion anyway? "your druid is riding a freaggin wooly mammoth and now he must have.... a cat"
whatever... animal companion is animal companion... let all classes stack; plain and simple
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Well first the Int at 3 trick you are using doesn't work anymore per the official Blog post. A AC with Int 3 just gets more tricks now and you still need to use Handle Animal to get it to do anything that isn't a trained trick.
Can i have a link to that?
I will check you numbers tommorow (it's REALLY late here) but from a quick look i can see that you have made some mistakes in the wolf's attacks.
Official Blog Post and discussion
It's a very entertaining read but don't forget to read through the discussion (you can skip to the dev posts if you don't want to read all that wall of text).
And it is possible my numbers may be off (unlikely but I didn't show my work so it's possible) but I highly doubt it. I tend to build the same wolf over and over again for all my ranger characters.
@Purple Dragon Rider; the rules are as they are not how we would like them to be.
Anyway your druid wouldn't lose his lion, it's a legal choice for a Druid and all classes that grant AC's stack so he'd keep advancing too. This is mostly a stab at the Ranger class to keep it's power in check.
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The Roc on the other hand looks like a great choice but is restricted from ever going into a town, building or dungeon. can't provide a flanking bonus, requires you to burn two feats to be able to do damage while mounted on it (Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery) Can't be disguised as anything but what it is and is almost completely useless when grounded.
Mounted Combat is for Defense of the Mount. Mounted Archery is only use full if you double moved and full attack. If you single move and full attack you are fine. Or double move and single attack fine.
“Can’t provide flank” Why not? And why do you care you are an Archer?
As far as town/ dungeon it the Roc is Medium till level 7 then it is large. So if you fit so dose Roc. As far as wild animal and towns folks only Horse/Pony, Riding dog/ dog, Camel, Bird, Cow/ Water Buffalo is going to get by the “town test”. Anything else no way is it passing. And as far that is concerned nothing is going inside town building as far as the folk is concerned. Get you horse out of the bar cowboy.
“Disguise” well I never though of trying to but I guess you cold try to as any other bird Ie eagle, hawk, raven, ect or Big Yellow Bird….
And is not as effective on the ground as when it flying true, but the point is for you ride as it fly at level 1. Most folk can not start fling till level 5 with a spell or much latter with equipment. This cost at lest than Winged Boots 16,000 gp, Broom of Flying 17,000 gp,
Cloak of the Bat 26,000 gp, Carpet of Flying 20,000 gp, 35,000 gp, 60,000 gp. Which means it cost 29K on average to fly in D&D
It starts as a medium creature and unless you are playing a small sized race (gnome or halfling) you can't ride it till 7th.
The mounted problem is that you have to burn your move action every round performing a DC 20 Ride check every time you want to Single Attack while flying. That is unless you can succeed at 2 separate DC 20 Handle Animal Checks and burn 9 Weeks to Ride & Combat Train the bird.
On top of the fact that your Roc has to move a minimum of half it's speed every round or succeed on a fly check (DC 10 for half speed or DC 15 for hover) which will be difficult with it's +4 fly skill or start suffering range penalties.
It can't provide flanking because it's flying (doesn't threaten at range), your mounted on it or it's on the ground (about to die, Con of 9 is pathetic)
And if you wish to take your 20' movement, Con 9 1 attack per round for a D6+1 bird into a dungeon go for it, if you can push it to go down there.
Now I am not saying the Roc is a BAD AC, just that it's particular problems keeps it from being an optimal choice. It's area of use is smaller then the other choices (outside and flying), making it a situational pet and I personally like to use all my tools as often as possible.
@calagnar, you are right about the Ability Focus, don't know why I put that there.
As for the cat it got +1 to Str & Dex for being 9HD and 1 point was supposed to be added to it's Int since that's where the cat friendly guy wanted it. Doesn't change the stats at all so I meant to leave it there. Dang Cut & Paste.
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Link (Ex): A druid can handle her animal companion
as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she
doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The
druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy
checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an
animal companion.
This applys.
Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt
to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount
not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the
Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do
not need to roll for horses or ponies trained for combat.
Untill they become combat trained then it's.
Guide with Knees: You can guide your mount with your
knees so you can use both hands in combat. Make your
Ride check at the start of your turn. If you fail, you can
use only one hand this round because you need to use the
other to control your mount. This does not take an action.
So with one trick(Attack). You can make a full attack action from the Roc. Still it dose not solve most of the problems with the Roc. The main problems come not from the Roc but from the adventures your doing. A Roc in Kingmaker is just realy powerful. Not the case in any other AP. So over all Roc is to limited by the kind of adventure you are going on.
Ill take the cat any time. It medium size is more of an advantage. Wolf's large size limits it ability to be realy useful. And where it can fit.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
Interesting discussion here.
I am personally in favor of the wolf, too - mostly for fluff reasons (Princess Mononoke, anyone?). But I value the synergy of having a decent AC and a mount in one over a bit more damage. It being large at lvl10 can be negated with the spell reduce animal by the way (true, your WIS has to be high enough to grant bonus spells - something the min-maxers here will not invest in).
It has a decent duration and with your magic shop in the nearby town or maybe the friendly cleric you're travelling with, getting it as a scroll might be possible.
Ruyan.
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Link (Ex): A druid can handle her animal companion
as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she
doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The
druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy
checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an
animal companion.This applys.
Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt
to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount
not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the
Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do
not need to roll for horses or ponies trained for combat.Untill they become combat trained then it's.
Guide with Knees: You can guide your mount with your
knees so you can use both hands in combat. Make your
Ride check at the start of your turn. If you fail, you can
use only one hand this round because you need to use the
other to control your mount. This does not take an action.So with one trick(Attack). You can make a full attack action from the Roc. Still it dose not solve most of the problems with the Roc. The main problems come not from the Roc but from the adventures your doing. A Roc in Kingmaker is just realy powerful. Not the case in any other AP. So over all Roc is to limited by the kind of adventure you are going on.
Ill take the cat any time. It medium size is more of an advantage. Wolf's large size limits it ability to be realy useful. And where it can fit.
Read it again.
Link allows you to use Handle Animal as a free action but you need to make a RIDE check to control it in combat. Link does not apply to Ride only to Handle Animal so you still have to make the Ride check as a move action so you are still limited to a single action.The Attack trick simply allows the AC to attack NORMAL creatures (Humanoids, Monstrous Humanoids, Giants or other animals)on command, it has nothing to do with you riding it and you still need to push it to get it to attack any other kind of creature which takes ANOTHER move action.
DC 20 Handle Animal checks and a minimum of 1 1/2 weeks of work BEFORE you make the first check (riding) then 4 1/2 weeks after that you get to make the check for combat training. Hope you like being out of commission for that long every time your pet dies.
Push” an animal 25 DC
Let you do anything you do not have trick for.
Not this trick or that trick is not big deal.
Personally if your looking for a powerhouse type animal companion I'd have to throw my vote twords
Dragonne Companions
Dragonne animal companions progress as follows:
Starting Statistics: Size Large; Speed 40 ft., f ly 30 ft.
(poor); AC +7 natural; Attack bite (2d6), 2 claws (2d4);
Ability Scores Str 19, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 12;
Special Attacks pounce; Special Qualities darkvision 60
ft., low-light vision, scent.
10th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2;
Special Attacks roar.
Roar (Su) A dragonne can unleash a devastating
roar every 1d4 rounds as a standard action. All creatures
except dragonnes within 120 feet must succeed on a DC
17 Fortitude save or become fatigued. Those within
30 feet who fail their saves are also deafened for
2d4 rounds. This is a sonic effect. The save DC is
Constitution-based.
He is found in the Bonus Beastiary page 10
oh and for the non animal companion people, take leadership
Dragonnes as Mounts
A character with the Leadership feat can take a dragonne
as a mount using the animal companion rules. Such
characters must have an effective druid level of 10th.
A character with a dragonne mount counts as 4 levels
lower when determining the abilities and statistics of the
dragonne (meaning that the character’s effective druid
level is 6th for determining abilities when the dragonne
is first acquired). Taking a dragonne in this way counts as
the character’s cohort.
What about snakes?
Snake bite.... lolol