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3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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Prerequisites: Channel energy class feature, necromancer or neutrally aligned cleric (see below).
Benefit: You may make a choice whenever you use your channel energy class feature.
If you normally channel positive energy, you may choose to channel negative energy as if your effective cleric level were 2 levels lower than normal.
If you normally channel negative energy, you may choose to channel positive energy as if your effective cleric level were 2 levels lower than normal.
Having this feat means you qualify for feats and abilities that have "channel positive energy" or "channel negative energy" as a prerequisite (for example, you qualify for the Command Undead feat and the Turn Undead feat).
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The Versatile Channeling feat allows you to channel both positive and negative energy as a cleric, albeit one is at an effective cleric level of -2. This raises two interesting questions for me.
Firstly, there's nothing in the prerequisites that prevents a cleric from taking this feat at level 1. If I have a normally positive-energy cleric who takes this feat at first level, can he channel negative energy as a first level cleric, or can he simply not take advantage of the feat until level 3?
Secondly, the ability says you qualify for feats and abilities that have "Channel Positive Energy" or "Channel Negative Energy" as a prerequisite. Does that include the cleric's spontaneous casting? The Cleric's Channel Energy says that it's what dictates which set the cleric can convert spells into. If so, would the same positive-energy cleric convert inflict spells at CL -2?
Thanks in advance.
I do believe you are correct that this feat has no benefit until 3rd level, but it can be taken at 1st level (in case you have something else you need to take at 3rd).
But no, it does not allow you to cast the spells of the opposite energy type. You could house rule it, but the feat itself only allows the channeling of the other type of energy and feats to be selected for that energy type and nothing else.
ShadowcatX wrote: I do believe you are correct that this feat has no benefit until 3rd level, but it can be taken at 1st level (in case you have something else you need to take at 3rd).
But no, it does not allow you to cast the spells of the opposite energy type. You could house rule it, but the feat itself only allows the channeling of the other type of energy and feats to be selected for that energy type and nothing else.
Agreed on all points.
True, but that does seem to fly in the face of feat design. The only feats in the game that can be taken before they can be used are metamagic feats. Abilities that use a modification of character level as a baseline usually note having a minimum of 1.
In all honesty, I see two ways that this feat could be taken. One is that it should say "2 levels lower than normal (minimum 1)". The alternative is that the feat should have Channel Energy 2d6 as a prerequisite.
The second question I'm more on the fence about. I could see both sides to that one. On the one hand, it says that it lets you qualify for both feats and abilities that have Positive/Negative channel as a prerequisite. Spontaneous conversion is the only ability I've ever seen with that as a prerequisite.
On the other hand, if that was indeed the intent, you'd think the feat would have been a bit more clear about it.
"intent" is a dangerous philosophy to go on. Unless one works for Paizo it's impossible to determine accurately the intent of the game developers. If the rules are written ambiguously I think a player is well within his rights to try and squeeze every last drop out of his character.
I'm going to give a try at arguing this, based on the language of the rules. First of all, unless you want to houserule it, there's no way I could see arguing for this to affect spontaneous conversion (though I totally think that should be its own feat). While your choice between the two abilities must be the same, Channel Energy is not listed as a "prerequisite" of Spontaneous Conversion. They both refer back to each other.
On the other matter though, I think a good argument can be made from Channel Energy's text.
"The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on)."
There is nothing in that statement that says it cannot be used at effective level 0. The only thing that would suggest that would be the chart, but obviously for convenience sake the chart would not list such a thing and in general the text is the actual rules and the chart just a guide. The base is quite explicitly 1d6 and the only thing levels effect is the "plus" for every two levels beyond first. For the secondary channel, however, it would remain 1d6 until 5th level.
Also, the DC for the secondary channel:
"The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric's level + the cleric's Charisma modifier."
would remain simply 10+CHA until 4th level.
That all seems fair to me. It's a feat after all, and feats can do some powerful things if used properly. I think an extremely stunted (and often half damage due to the DC) channeling attack or a healing channel that's multiple levels behind is plenty balanced for a feat.
Would the magical Knack trait allow this to be used at level 1?
Interesting catch, ShaperMC! As I argued above, I don't think the Magical Knack trait is even necessary in order to get some limited use from it, but Magical Knack may offset the limitations you'd have.
Magical Knack:
Pick a class when you gain this trait—your caster level in that class gains a +2 trait bonus as long as this bonus doesn’t increase your caster level higher than your current Hit Dice.
My concern would be that it says "pick a class," not a class ability. Thus, while you would not break the "as long as this bonus doesn't increase your caster level higher than your current HD" rule with Channel Energy, you would break it with every other feature or ability.
Still, the trait doesn't say you can't take the trait if it would increase your CL such, just that you only get the bonus if it doesn't increase your CL past your current HD. So it could be argued that this trait just has no effect until it goes to check for Channel Energy and suddenly your CL becomes lower than your HD. Unsure if that works or not.
I don't think Magical Knack (a magic trait) works with increasing a cleric class feature. It is not a spell or spell like ability and AFAIK only those have their effects changed by caster level.
I am intrigued by Thamewolfs argument:
PRD wrote:
The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on).
This alone implies that the minimum a channel can do is 1d6. Which implies to me that, as Thamewolf said, the Versatile Channeling channel will remain at 1d6 from 1st lvl through 4th lvl.
It also says necromancer. Someone please explain that to me. I assume it means for the wizard necromancer school. Or I'm just a fool.
The secondary channel functions as a cleric of two levels lower. So the DC should be 10 + 1/2 (cleric level -2) + CHA mod.
You don't gain the spontaneous casting of the other type, per the wording of the spontaneous casting ability.
PRD wrote: Spontaneous Casting: A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that she did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can “lose” any prepared spell that is not an orison or domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with “cure” in its name).
An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships an evil deity) can't convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with “inflict” in its name).
A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player's choice). Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric channels positive or negative energy (see Channel Energy).
You made your choice of spell, that determined what you could channel. The feat certainly qualifies your for abilities and feats that requiring positive or negative channeling, but this class feature doesn't depend on this, unfortunately, as I was hoping my versatile channeler could do more.
Some time ago, I read through several threads on this. The most common stance is that you get no benefits before level 3.
Dark servitude wrote: It also says necromancer. Someone please explain that to me. I assume it means for the wizard necromancer school. Or I'm just a fool. You are correct. Because the wizard (necromancer) has the choice between channeling negative and channeling positive.
Also neutrally aligned is another thing that bugs me. CN, LN, just N.? NE and NG imo, don't right, cause you aren't neutral.?
Its actually very clear, given the text on good and evil that precedes it.
Koretsu wrote: True, but that does seem to fly in the face of feat design. The only feats in the game that can be taken before they can be used are metamagic feats. Abilities that use a modification of character level as a baseline usually note having a minimum of 1.
In all honesty, I see two ways that this feat could be taken. One is that it should say "2 levels lower than normal (minimum 1)".
This idea that it would work at lvl 1 as you claim would be a horrible feat design. If they said "2 levels lower than normal (minimum 1)" Then the feat would be MORE POWERFUL when taken at level 1 and 2 and then become less powerful as you leveled.
Why would a feat allow a character to use positive and negative energy at the same d6 power output at level 1 and then suddenly your character "forgets" how to do this as he levels up? No, no way.
It seems to me they omitted "2 levels lower than normal (minimum 1)" on purpose to keep the feat from being unbalanced at levels 1 and 2.
Dark servitude wrote: Also neutrally aligned is another thing that bugs me. CN, LN, just N.? NE and NG imo, don't right, cause you aren't neutral.? As DB said, what matters is the Neutrality on the Evil-Good axis.
The real prerequisite is that the character needs to make a choice between channeling positive and channeling negative when he gets the channeling ability .
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