I think the beginner box looks incredibly promising, not for the old guard like myself but for new players who like to grok a complete ruleset without having to weed the relevance out of the jungle that is the CRB.
I'm also a fan of expansive boardgames like Settlers of Catan.
While I was staring at an expansion set for Catan, the thought occurred to me: could a series of expansions to the beginner box gradually fill in the rules from the CRB for beginners?
I'm at a point where my girlfriend games with us occasionally, and she's caught on to the rules just fine but she feels intimidated by them. Who can blame her? I live and breath this game and I'm still daunted by the CRB sometimes. The board game box approach is considerably less intimidating than that beast.
Anyway, I realize that the answer to my question is contingent on the sales of the Beginner Box, but I thought I'd float the idea and see what other customers thought about it. Is there a demand for a staged introduction to the game?
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If they've made it to level 6, are they truely beginners anymore?
:P
I kind of doubt it will happen. TSR split it's customer base in half when they created seperate product lines for AD&D and Basic D&D. I think Paizo's intention is that players graduate from the Beginner's Box to the Core Rules.
I do find it amusing that you're asking for a seperate product line for simplifed rules while in a different thread you are disagreeing with my opinion that Pathfinder is overly rules-heavy.
Heh...looking at the thread title, I thought you were going to ask: "When is the second printing of the Beginner Box coming out, so I can get a version with the errata incorporated?"
My two cents: I'm a pessimist by nature, so I'm not convinced that the Beginner Box will be a smash hit. And if it's not a smash hit, I suspect that there won't be an "Expert Box" in the works to follow it.
I asked SKR when the Expert box was coming out, and I think from his reaction, it would not be his first choice to work on. ;)
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Not an expert box, per se, but something that included some more rules (maybe to 10th), and four new classes, and a different map.
I guess we will have to see how the first one sells. I have high hopes. The entry barrier for PF is just too high.
If they've made it to level 6, are they truely beginners anymore?
:P
I kind of doubt it will happen. TSR split it's customer base in half when they created seperate product lines for AD&D and Basic D&D. I think Paizo's intention is that players graduate from the Beginner's Box to the Core Rules.
I do find it amusing that you're asking for a seperate product line for simplifed rules while in a different thread you are disagreeing with my opinion that Pathfinder is overly rules-heavy.
Um you mean you when D&D was at it's most popular?
Never got the whole 'split' your customer base thing. Who cares as long as they are buying from you. The only thing that makes this questionable is do they have enough people to continue to develope and write things for both APF and BPF. Otherwise I think they should put some thought into it.
My understanding of the Box is that it is a subset, not a different version of the game.
Therefore, my idea of expansions would be into additional subsets... making up more of the game but in discrete chunks.
If it turns out I am wrong and the basic box is something actually different from the CRB rules, then this idea is moot.
CEO
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Um you mean you when D&D was at it's most popular?
Never got the whole 'split' your customer base thing. Who cares as long as they are buying from you. The only thing that makes this questionable is do they have enough people to continue to develope and write things for both APF and BPF. Otherwise I think they should put some thought into it.
It may have been at it's most popular, but the splitting of the customer base is the #1 reason why TSR went out of business. It would take me a couple of hours to explain why this was the case, but as the person responsible at WotC for taking the old TSR data and analyzing it to see why they went belly up, the biggest cause that I found was splitting the customer base into segments. Whether it was D&D vs. AD&D. Or Forgotten Realms vs. Ravenloft vs. Greyhawk vs. Dragonlance vs. Birthright vs. Dark Sun vs. Planescape vs. Mystara vs. Al-Qadim vs. Spelljammer vs. Lanhkmar vs. any other setting book that they produced. Splitting the customer base means lower sales on any particular product which means lower profit margins which eventually means going belly up.
-Lisa
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One thing I'm curious about with the beginners box...do monster stat blocks differ greatly from the "normal" stat block in Pathfinder products or are they pretty much the same?
If they are pretty different, I could see "Beginner Box compatible" modules, using simplified stat blocks and rules, but other than that I don't expect we'll see much direct support for the BB (although we may see products that tangentially support it, like more pawns or flip mats).
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Um you mean you when D&D was at it's most popular?
Never got the whole 'split' your customer base thing. Who cares as long as they are buying from you. The only thing that makes this questionable is do they have enough people to continue to develope and write things for both APF and BPF. Otherwise I think they should put some thought into it.
It may have been at it's most popular, but the splitting of the customer base is the #1 reason why TSR went out of business. It would take me a couple of hours to explain why this was the case, but as the person responsible at WotC for taking the old TSR data and analyzing it to see why they went belly up, the biggest cause that I found was splitting the customer base into segments. Whether it was D&D vs. AD&D. Or Forgotten Realms vs. Ravenloft vs. Greyhawk vs. Dragonlance vs. Birthright vs. Dark Sun vs. Planescape vs. Mystara vs. Al-Qadim vs. Spelljammer vs. Lanhkmar vs. any other setting book that they produced. Splitting the customer base means lower sales on any particular product which means lower profit margins which eventually means going belly up.
-Lisa
So I guess there will be no Dark Sun or Eberron counterparts coming from Paizo either ;)
So I guess there will be no Dark Sun or Eberron counterparts coming from Paizo either ;)
I think they were smart to include all of those elements but keep it in the same setting.
I think a revised core rulebook would be more likely. Not a new edition, just a revision that is easier to learn from and makes some of the less clear rules better. Perhaps with references to the other products in the line. Like the excellent Shadowrun 20th anniversary edition that is essentially the same game as Shadowrun 4E, but with a super index that includes additional books.
So I guess there will be no Dark Sun or Eberron counterparts coming from Paizo either ;)I think they were smart to include all of those elements but keep it in the same setting.
Also smart to give 3PP a chance to plant their flag in those genres if they so desire. :)
One thing I'm curious about with the beginners box...do monster stat blocks differ greatly from the "normal" stat block in Pathfinder products or are they pretty much the same?
If they are pretty different, I could see "Beginner Box compatible" modules, using simplified stat blocks and rules, but other than that I don't expect we'll see much direct support for the BB (although we may see products that tangentially support it, like more pawns or flip mats).
The idea of the BB is that once you're familiar with using it, it's not a big jump to adapt full-game content for it. So if a full-game adventure talks about making AOOs in an encounter, a person just using the BB knows to ignore that (because the BB doesn't have rules for AOOs).
So, while the BB and Bestiary monster stat blocks don't look exactly the same, they still have entries for initiative, melee attack, saving throws, and so on.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I think the beginner box looks incredibly promising, not for the old guard like myself but for new players who like to grok a complete ruleset without having to weed the relevance out of the jungle that is the CRB.
I'm also a fan of expansive boardgames like Settlers of Catan.
While I was staring at an expansion set for Catan, the thought occurred to me: could a series of expansions to the beginner box gradually fill in the rules from the CRB for beginners?
I'm at a point where my girlfriend games with us occasionally, and she's caught on to the rules just fine but she feels intimidated by them. Who can blame her? I live and breath this game and I'm still daunted by the CRB sometimes. The board game box approach is considerably less intimidating than that beast.
Anyway, I realize that the answer to my question is contingent on the sales of the Beginner Box, but I thought I'd float the idea and see what other customers thought about it. Is there a demand for a staged introduction to the game?
There are a number of problems with that approach. First, right out of the gate, the maximum potential audience for this theoretical box 2 is, by definition, a subset of the audience for box 1, and box 3 would have an even smaller audience, and so on. For some products, that might be ok, but in order to hit the price point we have on the BB, we're taking a much slimmer margin than usual, and that makes it very hard to justify doing something similar that we know will be less successful.
Also, dividing our audience into several different groups that each understand different subsets of the rules may not be the wisest move, as a fractured audience is harder to support.
Ultimately, it's in our best interest to get people who have outgrown the Beginner Box to transition to the full Pathfinder RPG as soon as possible.
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The idea of the BB is that once you're familiar with using it, it's not a big jump to adapt full-game content for it. So if a full-game adventure talks about making AOOs in an encounter, a person just using the BB knows to ignore that (because the BB doesn't have rules for AOOs).
So, while the BB and Bestiary monster stat blocks don't look exactly the same, they still have entries for initiative, melee attack, saving throws, and so on.
In regards to AoO is there a mechanic in place to replace that or is it just omited entirly? I could be wrong but removing AoO's seems like something that would alter how the game works quite a bit.(By which I mean make it play a lot less like the normal core rules).
In regards to AoO is there a mechanic in place to replace that or is it just omited entirly? I could be wrong but removing AoO's seems like something that would alter how the game works quite a bit.(By which I mean make it play a lot less like the normal core rules).The idea of the BB is that once you're familiar with using it, it's not a big jump to adapt full-game content for it. So if a full-game adventure talks about making AOOs in an encounter, a person just using the BB knows to ignore that (because the BB doesn't have rules for AOOs).
So, while the BB and Bestiary monster stat blocks don't look exactly the same, they still have entries for initiative, melee attack, saving throws, and so on.
I think you will find the play experience changes very little. I think my players only expose themselves to attacks of opportunity very rarely in game. Is the game play really changed that much if you can cast spells in melee or withdraw from combat easily?
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Contributor
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I think you will find the play experience changes very little. I think my players only expose themselves to attacks of opportunity very rarely in game. Is the game play really changed that much if you can cast spells in melee or withdraw from combat easily?In regards to AoO is there a mechanic in place to replace that or is it just omited entirly? I could be wrong but removing AoO's seems like something that would alter how the game works quite a bit.(By which I mean make it play a lot less like the normal core rules).The idea of the BB is that once you're familiar with using it, it's not a big jump to adapt full-game content for it. So if a full-game adventure talks about making AOOs in an encounter, a person just using the BB knows to ignore that (because the BB doesn't have rules for AOOs).
So, while the BB and Bestiary monster stat blocks don't look exactly the same, they still have entries for initiative, melee attack, saving throws, and so on.
I think it will certainly speed things up. It will also change tactical thinking for movement, as well as the value of reach and its application to larger creatures.
This is another example of how tightly-knit many aspects of the rules can be. A simple change has ripple-effects that touch on numerous, and often unexpected, areas of the game.
Still, as an intro to Pathfinder, I think AoO is a mechanic that can be removed and added back in later, along with all the related mechanics, feats, weapons, and creatures that rely on it.
I think that it would be fair to assume that once you know the BB well enough to recognise the tactical distinctions between playing with AoO and without, then you're more than ready to graduate to the full rules! :-D
My understanding of the purpose of the BB is that it is the rpg system equivalent of training wheels on a bicycle. You're not supposed to use the BB long-term, only just long enough to become ready to stop using it.
Under this reasoning, I doubt there'll be further BB expansions. In fact, it would be detrimental to produce more than a handful of BB oriented adventures either. The more support material BB has, the longer new players will stay with it instead of moving up to the 'big kids' rules. ;-) It would be the equivalent of if Pampers created a line of diapers for kids ages 3-6 years, then 7-12, 13-17, 18 and older, etc. :-)
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The idea of the BB is that once you're familiar with using it, it's not a big jump to adapt full-game content for it. So if a full-game adventure talks about making AOOs in an encounter, a person just using the BB knows to ignore that (because the BB doesn't have rules for AOOs).So, while the BB and Bestiary monster stat blocks don't look exactly the same, they still have entries for initiative, melee attack, saving throws, and so on.
Wait, so the Beginner Box just gets rid of the rules I don't understand anyway?
Smurf it, I'm just running Pathfinder Beginner Box for all my games now. My players will never know the difference.
Um you mean you when D&D was at it's most popular?
Never got the whole 'split' your customer base thing. Who cares as long as they are buying from you. The only thing that makes this questionable is do they have enough people to continue to develope and write things for both APF and BPF. Otherwise I think they should put some thought into it.
It may have been at it's most popular, but the splitting of the customer base is the #1 reason why TSR went out of business. It would take me a couple of hours to explain why this was the case, but as the person responsible at WotC for taking the old TSR data and analyzing it to see why they went belly up, the biggest cause that I found was splitting the customer base into segments. Whether it was D&D vs. AD&D. Or Forgotten Realms vs. Ravenloft vs. Greyhawk vs. Dragonlance vs. Birthright vs. Dark Sun vs. Planescape vs. Mystara vs. Al-Qadim vs. Spelljammer vs. Lanhkmar vs. any other setting book that they produced. Splitting the customer base means lower sales on any particular product which means lower profit margins which eventually means going belly up.
-Lisa
I thought it was due to some bad managment and it really dumb deal with B&N that did it in....also some of the products was very hit or miss back than.
Though yes spilting your market can be bad (though I think this idea should sometimes be rexamined....IE I think the trouble was not Basic D&D (which they actualy stopped producing before they started to get into trouble...but the endless campaign setting)...I'll bow to your superior knowledge here though.
But what if the BB box does not easily bring people up to PF? Would producing a BB2 box to hopefuly bridge those people be worth it? What rules are removed to make it simpler besides AoOs?
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Also, this "graduation from basic to full PF" sounds very elitist to me.
I didn't intend it that way. I just meant that that's probably what Paizo intends from this set, that players get their appitites whetted by levels 1-5, and pick up the Core Rules to continue play. I think levels 1-5 are certainly enough for most people to decide if the hobby is for them or not.
I am playing/GMing now since nearly 3 decades and in my humble experience its rather the opposite. Fewer and easier rules = more time to roleplay.
I completely agree. Hell, in another thread I'm being bashed around for daring to suggest that Pathfinder 2E might want to drastically cut back some of the codification. It seems that quite a few poeple want MORE rules, I guess they're hoping for a 900 page Core Rules book, akin to FATAL. :P
If you really feel that way, may I suggest the excellent Swords & Wizardry: Complete Rules from Frog God Games. Levels 1-20, 135 pages, and that includes 27 pages of monsters. I posted a fairly in-depth review. Really, the only thing I find lacking from the book is a wide variety of monsters (although it does pretty damned good for an embedded bestiary in such a small product). And this can be remedied with the Monster Book and upcoming Tome of Horrors (also from Frog God Games...preorder ends soon, and won't be reprinted). If you like retro systems, I think you'll like it.
Also, this "graduation from basic to full PF" sounds very elitist to me.So players of the Basic game are now second class players? Even more - this "graduation" means that they are no good roleplayers because they refuse to read and learn thousands of pages of unnecessary rule bloat?
I think you might be reading into those statements a little bit.
I doubt anyone here feels elitist about it, we all just want to get new players in the game.
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One major difference is that unlike your Beginner Box, AD&D was not an advanced version of D&D, it was essentially a very different game whose rules set had a large degree of incompatibility with it.
I dunno about VERY different. 0E, B/X, 1E, BECMI/RC, and 2E are all pretty compatible with each other. I'd say the difference between any two of those are no harder to iron out than the differences between 3.0, 3.5, and Pathfinder.
That is why it always makes me laugh when I see people claiming that 4e isn't "true D&D" because of how different it is from 3.X. 3.X was just as big of a departure from "retro" D&D as 4E was from 3.X.
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Paizo! Newborn Box! Get on it!
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I know. With my post I didnt of course mean you or someone specific, but by reading some posts in this or other threads it seems that in the Paizoforum there is a strong opinion by some, that a "real" (D&D?) rpg has to be a 1000p+ rule encyclopedia to be counted as full and that everything below this insane pagecount (like the basic box with 160p booklets) is just a "newbies or beginners game" with the goal of a later "graduation" into the "full game". This I strongly oppose.
Using a complex system and enjoying it is just one of many approaches to roleplaying. Systems like Savage Worlds, or BRP are very easy to play and learn and alot of excellent roleplayers and veterans are enjoying them. (not only casuals or newbies)
So in conclusio - one can say that rule complexity has nothing to do with veteran or newbie, only with personal preferences.
Pathfinder is not a rules lite game and a new player (which is what the "Beginners Box" is targeted for) can be intimidated by the complexity of the rules in the game. For Paizo to attract new players (and therefore customers) it makes sense to have a set that does exactly what you are opposing - introduce the basic concepts of the game for them to graduate into the full game later, not to split their market and have to support two different rules sets.
If a new player gets in and decides he likes role-playing, but doesn't like the more robust rulesets, he can look around and find rules lite systems. But there really can't be any mistaking of the Beginners Box for anything other than a gateway into the full Pathfinder RPG.
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I do see the OP's concern about transitioning to the CRB. I am 34 years old and a lawyer, and here I am 10 months after getting the CRB and I still feel like I'm absorbing its rules and subsystems. I very much doubt that my 10 year old self who got the Red Box would know where to begin in learning the CRB.
I love the CRB as a reference book, but as a pedagogical tool it's quite lacking. Previous iterations of D&D often included examples to show how the rules play out in action. The CRB and subsequent PFRPG rulebooks already presume an amount of experience and familiarity with the system on the part of the reader, and often don't provide an illustrative example when necessary. Or a visual representation of important concepts, such as a chart showing the difference between standard, move, and quick actions. For me, it was only after a few months working with the rules that I finally understood the significance of (Sp) versus (Su) in describing class abilities, or why designating a cool-sounding class ability as a "standard action" can vastly limit its effectiveness.
I can see why, with the CRB already running at 500+ pages, why these space-saving decisions were made, however.
Ultimately, it's in our best interest to get people who have outgrown the Beginner Box to transition to the full Pathfinder RPG as soon as possible.
If this is true, then I see the value of a downloadable PDF that transitions people from the Beginner Box to reading the full rules. A "reader's guide," so to speak.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Also, this "graduation from basic to full PF" sounds very elitist to me.So players of the Basic game are now second class players? Even more - this "graduation" means that they are no good roleplayers because they refuse to read and learn thousands of pages of unnecessary rule bloat?
I think you might be reading into those statements a little bit.
I doubt anyone here feels elitist about it, we all just want to get new players in the game.
My exact quote was "Ultimately, it's in our best interest to get people who have outgrown the Beginner Box to transition to the full Pathfinder RPG as soon as possible."
"Outgrown" could perhaps use some explanation:
We're designing the Beginner Box to have a *lot* of replay value. In addition to giving you the basic rules you need to play the Pathfinder RPG, the GM's book also contains a lot of advice about how to make up your own adventures—everything from how to make maps to the specific rules for environments. It's a game that some people will be able to use for a very long time, and it's even a game that some people will choose never to move on from at all, and that's absolutely fine.
But when players want to have more than three races and four classes for five levels, or when they want more spells, feats, equipment, and magic items, or when the GM wants more monsters with new abilities, or access to a wide variety of published adventures and Adventure Paths that go well above 5th level, that's when they'll have "outgrown" the Beginner's Box. At that point, the best place for them to go is the Core Rulebook, and their experience with the Beginner Box will make that book far less daunting than it is to a complete newbie.
There is a 10ish year old kid who shows up in one of my groups. He is better than some of the adults. He does not know all of the rules, but the rules are not as important as knowing what decisions to make*. You learn the rules as you.
*Charging into combat without any thought is a good way to die as an example.
PS:This also assumes you have someone explaining things to you as you play though.
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Note: Purposefully inflammatory comment to follow and meant entirely in jest.
My exact quote was "Ultimately, it's in our best interest to get people who have outgrown the Beginner Box to transition to the full Pathfinder RPG as soon as possible."
How many times has this been said, but replacing 'Beginner Box' with '4th Edition'?
Note: Purposefully inflammatory comment to follow and meant entirely in jest.
My exact quote was "Ultimately, it's in our best interest to get people who have outgrown the Beginner Box to transition to the full Pathfinder RPG as soon as possible."How many times has this been said, but replacing 'Beginner Box' with '4th Edition'?
You oughta bold that first part, I almost went for it.
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You oughta bold that first part, I almost went for it.Note: Purposefully inflammatory comment to follow and meant entirely in jest.
My exact quote was "Ultimately, it's in our best interest to get people who have outgrown the Beginner Box to transition to the full Pathfinder RPG as soon as possible."How many times has this been said, but replacing 'Beginner Box' with '4th Edition'?
I refuse to use emoticons, so when joking about things that I know will push buttons I figure it is safest to make it clear I'm just being snarky. I didn't think about my disclaimer not being so noticeable because of the quote.
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Chief Technical Officer
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My exact quote was "Ultimately, it's in our best interest to get people who have outgrown the Beginner Box to transition to the full Pathfinder RPG as soon as possible."
While I'm clarifying my own sentences, I might as well point out that, in addition to being in Paizo's best interest, it's really in the best interest of Pathfinder players at all levels, too. It's in the best interest of graduating Beginner Box players because it immediately opens up hundreds and hundreds of compatible products, and it's in the best interest of core RPG players because we won't have to divide our attention supporting multiple lines, and it's in the best interest of the community because, well, one large community is better than two small ones (in most ways, anyway).
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It all makes sense to me, and thanks for the analysis Paizofolk.
It strikes me as still possible that there might be demand for a second stepping stone, if the first is a smash hit. People might just want more maps, pawns, and basic rules.
But you'll have to see where it goes. Nothing else even remotely makes sense but to wait and see.
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It strikes me as still possible that there might be demand for a second stepping stone, if the first is a smash hit. People might just want more maps, pawns, and basic rules.
A Pathfinder Toolkit, which contains more maps and pawns, would be an awesome product for beginners and veterans alike.
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Chief Technical Officer
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It all makes sense to me, and thanks for the analysis Paizofolk.
It strikes me as still possible that there might be demand for a second stepping stone, if the first is a smash hit. People might just want more maps, pawns, and basic rules.
But you'll have to see where it goes. Nothing else even remotely makes sense but to wait and see.
I agree that we may find reason to justify a second stepping stone (as you put it). But each potential step is a step down a path we really don't want to go down, so any such concept will be considered *very* carefully, and always with a goal of connecting them to the Pathfinder RPG when they start looking for more.
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Also, in addition to the above replies, I thought the Beginner Box was aimed at solving the 'what do I start with' question that is currently so problematic with 4e. You go into a shop, there are all these rulebooks - what do you actually need to sit down and start playing? So the logic from that has to be - buy the Beginner Box, then you're ready to dive into the 'a la carte' menu of the full game. The moment you start introducing 'Beginners Box 2' or 'Further Beginners This Way' or 'Son of Beginner Box' you're taking people back to the head scratching and 'so what do I start with' point, and you've straightaway defeated one of your initial aims.
Surely there should only ever be one point of entry, and that shouldn't be open to confusion?
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Perhaps the "second step" would be tied in with one of Paizo's adventure paths?
I understand that Paizofolk must necessarily stay mum on these things, but when I noticed that one of the pieces of artwork for BB was supposed to be in Sandpoint (am I imagining this?), I immediately thought that Paizo planned to point new players to Rise of the Runelords as a "Hey! So, have you found out that you like PFRPG? Get a taste of what our entire line has to offer by jumping into one of our Adventure Paths!"
And this would coincide with a Pathfinder-compatible re-release of RotRL of course. :) And also, it doesn't hurt that the Jade Regent AP, which apparently also has its origins in Sandpoint, would begin at around the same time that BB comes out. Also, introducing people to a specific town in Golarion will also hook people into the official campaign setting as well.
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Something that would be neat is a full-to-basic "conversion guide" that helps people adapt the full game's content to the beginner rules if they wish to keep playing the "light" version.
I imagine it won't be very big - just don't include abilities that tie into advanced concepts of the game - but for stuff like the magus (for whom defensive casting and concentration checks are a thing) and the sorcerer (who gets bloodline powers that often pull in obscure rules about concealment and weather control), it'd be nice to have alternate ways for these abilities to work.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Hopefully, the beginners box will have a few pages at least on how to 'graduate' beyond the contents of the box. Not only just a general marketing overview of the other Pathfinder lines, but a set of specific recommendations (i.e., now that your players are 6th level, a great next adventure would be _______, which is designed for 6th level characters. It's set in _______ country, so you might also want to buy the companion book that details that region. You should also buy the Core Rulebook, and pay special attention to 4th level spells, the feats chapter and p. XXX, XXY, and YYY-ZZZ, which has information on attacks of opportunity and combat maneuvers, as they aren't included in the beginner's box rules.)
Hopefully a guided tour like this of the changes and a good entry point into products beyond the beginner's box will make the transition easier. Also, a new forum on the message board, maybe even a locked down one that only Paizo can post to and have a controlled series of posts that address specific questions about what's new in the Core Rulebook would be a good resource to create (or a separate webpage/FAQ area for that if the boards aren't the best way to go about it.)
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I am looking forward to the beginer box. I hope it will be a usful introductory tool.
Of course the core rule book is daunting and big. I could, say if I were to find myself needing to keep out a Cave Troll, like Boromir did in the Fellowship of the Ring movie, use both the core rule book, and perhaps the Ptolus book, another good book, to keep a door shut. I’m sure the weigh of these books alone would hold a cave troll back.
But I digress. Yes the Core book is big and daunting, but we have all learned by playing the game and making mistakes. So while I play and GM Pathfinder, and I do refer to the Core Rule book frequently, I am always finding something I didn’t know about before. Perhaps that’s why the game holds my interest. There is always something new.
So I do think an Introductory rule box sounds like a neat idea.
I would love to hear about what that group of 14 year olds did with the box and the game as they puzzled things out.