I am starting a kingmaker campaign this weekend, and as usual some of my players have asked a few questions that I'd like to receive more input before i make a ruling.
1) One of my players is thinking about running an alchemist, he came up with the idea of attaching a vial of inhaled poison(this is done outside of combat) to a concussion bomb. The intent is that when the bomb explodes it will also break the additional vial full of poison, filling a 10x10ft area with the toxic gas. I have already ruled that should I allow this it should not work with any fire/ lightning based bombs.My question : is this even allowable by RaW? is it over powered, and if so should i attach a negative to the attack because its not a normal bomb?
2)Another player wants to run a Synthesist summoner. The fluff is he is a tiefling who has a stronger tie to his infernal lineage and "summons" the power of hell into him. My question is regarding the summoner retaining his old proficiencies while he is fused, more specifically his ability to use weapons. The character wants to use the heirloom trait to be able to use a great sword. does this work? can they have a level one character wielding a two-handed weapon over their natural attacks?
Thank you
1)No, Bombs cannot be made before combat. They go inert after 1 round.
2)Indeed! The 'Eidolon' has no feats and skills, and takes on all of the abilities and gear of the summoner. Of course this means that the Summoner has to take combat feats if he wants to have them while summoned.
What might help you is to take your players character sheets, plunk down with the rulebooks used to make them, and read through the class rules for each one.
I know, it sounds like a lot of work, but it would help you get familiar with your players' class mechanics, which of course means you get to design more challenging encounters for them later on :)
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Regarding the vial-stuck-on-a-bomb: no, no, no. Duct taping a vial of poison to a bomb won't work for several reasons. For one, the damage from the bomb would technically just destroy the item. A vial of poison (or acid, etc.) is - technically - a single item. Even if the DM wants to rule the vial and the poison within as two seperate objects, the bomb's damage breaks through the vial and destroys the chemical reagents as well. Just like taking cover from a fireball by standing behind a paper wall.
For another, adhering an item to a weapon invalidates the weapon to a large degree. For example, I could not simply soverign glue a torch to my greatsword in order to deal extra fire damage. Nor could I tie several arrows together to multiply my bow damage.
Why not? If you've fused two objects together, you've created an improvized weapon. It no longer functions as intended: it has lost its aerodynamic potential, is unevenly weighted, and is not neccesarily designed to break on impact. At best, you would be taking the associated -8 nonproficiency penalty on all attack rolls, and dealing improvized weapon damage. Although I suppose the alchemist could overcome some of the drawbacks to this factor with his Throw Anything feat.
Unfortunately for him, the above arguments are completely irrelevant thanks to the fact that the Bomb class feature simply doesn't allow for this tactic at all. To quote the class feature in question:
"Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity."
The bombs do not exist prior to being thrown. It takes a standard action to create and throw one. In order to attach a vial of poison to his bomb, the alchemist would have to:
> Take a standard action to draw and create the bomb.
> Draw the acid vial as free action (if he has Quick Draw) or as a part of a move action.
> Draw the adhesive (I'm sure there's an alchemical substance out there that functions as an adhesive?). If using soverign glue, note that the glue takes one full round to take effect.
> Take a standard action to apply the adhesive to the bomb and vial.
But wait! Creating and THROWING the bomb is a single standard action. Even with Quick Draw, there's no time to draw or do anything else, let alone take two rounds worth of actions.
The moral of the story?
Science is not the enemy of reason. This doesn't work. : P
Thank you for feed back.
My concern with the Synthesist summoner was how it would incorporate iterate attacks with a weapon and natural attacks. I understand that all the natural attacks would be treated as secondary, however I was just unsure if he would be able to use the great sword while fused, seeing as a normal eidolon has to take an evolution in order to use martial weapons.
With regards to the alchemist cheapo-bomb this was based off of two different ideas the player presented to achieve the bomb. The first uses the combination of delayed bomb and Concussive bomb. Seeing as concussive bomb does sonic damage it should not destroy the poison in the vial attached, only the vial containing the poison, thus allowing the inhaled poison to act as normal and the delayed aspect gives them time to attach the poison vial. The second way was concerning the actual vial of catalyst used to make the bomb. This method revolved around the idea that you could attach the vial of poison( via duck tape or something)to the vial of catalyst, and when the alchemist used his ability to turn the catalyst vial into a bomb the poison would already be attached and thus throw-able. I understand that in this manor he would incur both a range penalty( 10ft Vs. normal) and an attack penalty for it being an improvised weapon. Is their something else i am missing? I am not really a fan of ether concept but he is very enthusiastic, so I am trying to find something I can use to disarm his argument without just saying I am the DM.
RE: Bombs
At this point, it sounds like a pretty creative interpretation of the rules. This can be a good thing! It could also be a bad thing. It sounds like the former though.
Bottom Line: Rules don't support it. In order to make it work you've got to do some design work. If you don't feel comfortable making such design decisions just tell your player "Sorry, the rules don't support it and I don't think I would make the correct design decision; so I'm going to have to say no." However if you're cool with it, and can make those design decisions so that you feel comfortable, make a ruling, write it down, and file it away. I think the Range penalty and Attack penalty are reasonable.
Also since there's no duck tape, you could make him use some amount of sovereign glue. At the very least, this is going to be expensive, hard to use, and situationally effective. If he still wants to use it after that, then he's earned it!
RE: Summoner
The rules certainly do support your Summoner player's idea. It will be somewhat tedious to find out exactly how the mechanics work, but here's an options: ask your player to figure it out and explain it to you. Make sure he backs up his explanation with actual rules, and that you agree with his interpretation. This way, neither of you will be confused about the rules.
I had to do exactly that when I rolled my Inquisitor/Monk(Zen Archer). My GM hadn't had much experience with Monks, so I dug up all the rulings on the mechanics and laid it out for him.
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Something like Poison Bomb, Lesser, make it available at 8th level have it replicate the effects of Stinking Cloud.
You mean like this:
Stink bomb*: The effects of the smoke created by an
alchemist’s bomb can duplicate the effects of stinking
cloud instead of fog cloud, filling an area equal to twice
the bomb’s splash radius for 1 round. An alchemist
must possess the smoke bomb discovery before
selecting this discovery.