Nice one cartmanbeck, but maybe add a note saying that the mystic rogue's minor/major magic rogue talents rely on Charisma instead of Intelligence? Does that make sense to anyone else?Maybe the Mystic Rogue should completely replace the Sorceror/Wizard spell list with the Cleric spell list for her Minor/Major Magic abilities? That would suggest using Charisma for all spells and spell-like abilities. Agreed?
You could. Or just use something similar to Flak's "Martial Sage" ability in the Arcane Fist to designate an Ability focus change. Or both. Since you are using Oracle as the base, yeah, I'd make it cleric spell list to keep it in flavor.
Oh no I wasn't trying to hurry you up on it, I just wanted to get feedback on the changes I made to it. :-DI know cartmanbeck. I've kept your original post info on my APG arcehtype worksheet, but just haven't gotten to it yet. I go where my inspiration goes. And by no means does that mean I'm ignoring you. Your mystic knave is on the list of "get to ASAP".Stuff...I think I've got a pretty good version of the Mystic Rogue written up. Here it is:
** spoiler omitted **...
I didn't realize you had made changes. I'll copy the new version and take a look.
Stuff...I think I've got a pretty good version of the Mystic Rogue written up. Here it is:
** spoiler omitted **...
I'm just wondering, to add/keep flavor of the relevatory nature of the archetype, woudl a unique class ability that grants the archetype a bonus on his sneak attack? Sort of a minor "true strike" insight bonust to sneak attack that scales with level, say a +1 at 4th, +1/4 levels to +5 at 20th? Just a thought. It is an oracle/seer related type benefit, a precongitive "see the future" bonus. ???
EDIT:
Elghinn, I'm coming up dry on the temple assassin thing; my problem is I have no idea what to swap out for the inquisitor as all his abilities already fit a temple assassin. I could see him losing his spellcasting for something, but he's already so ability-heavy. I'll keep thinking about it, but also...
Sword Dancer - Bard(P)/Magus(S) [UM: Spellblade Archetype] -- Abilities related to dance and the utilization of animate weaponry.Maybe I'll work on this one. There're some UM spells I want to turn into class features. Flavor coming to me. More later. :)
Yeah, that's the thing about this process. One has to be inspired on a particular archetype. I've been trying to figure out the Master of Constructs (MoC). Here's what I've got as a possible idea so far. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around things, so bear with me as I try to explain.
I thought, what powers golems exactly? Magic. Well, why can't we have "golems" powered by elementals? Summoners can summon things from other planes, currently it's an eidolon. We have the Summoner(P)/Wizard(S) Elementalist (choice of 5 elements).
There are a couple of ways to do this.
1) The MoC must construct a reliquary or vessel to house an elemental (or an elemental spirit) from their selected elemental plane. This vessel is in essence an inanimate shell for the elemental to empower once it comes to the Prime Material. It could be a suit of armor, a carved statue, some type of form that the MoC wants the elemental to assume while here. Sort of like how the summoner has control over the form of his eidolon.
We’d give the MoC the Golem Constructor arcane discovery at 1st level, and the crafting of this vessel would be in cost similar to that of what a bonded item would be. This elemental powered “animated object” would essentially be a minor golem, but without all the nifty powers/abilities. Those would come with levels of course.
The elemental inhabits this form, giving it life. I envisioned Dr. Krauss from Hellboy 2 who entered and took control of one of the Golden Army Clockworks. The MoC can then command it like an eidolon, and enhance it as he gains levels, much like the eidolon. It’ll be similar to an eidolon, but also with familiar special abilities like share spells, deliver touch spells, etc. Still need to work that all out. As levels increase, the elemental and reliquary would eventually become fused, creating a true golem. The opportunity to do so would depend upon type of elemental and end result golem. For example, it requires 16th level to create an iron golem, so the MoC can’t fuse the reliquary and elemental into a true iron golem until 16th eve, or perhaps 14th, being they are to Masters of Constructs after all. There should be some benefit to being this archetype. I realize this skips some of the requirements needed to actually create a golem, but the MoC has developed a way to by pass the usual methods, but gain the same end result. Plus, their form of “golem” is likely to be more intelligent too.
I think the appropriate element and golem types are thus:
Earth – stone golem, clay golem
Fire – clay golem, glass golem
Metal – iron golem, mithral golem, clockwork golem, adamantine golem
Water – ice golem, alchemical golem
Wood – wood golem, clay golem
However, I think we’ll limit it to the first golem type listed in each element.
2) The other option is to simply have the MoC craft the reliquary in the form he wants his “elemental construct” to appear. Then, when summoned, at 1st level, a MoC could have a 3-foot “bipedal wood golem” appear, then as he levels up, he enhances the form, increasing ability scores, immunities, etc, until he has the true golem form (archetype level-dependant), and even increase its power too. I’ll need to work out al the specifics. I think maybe this later idea is the simplest. It will only require some alteration to the eidolon system, changing the “eidolon” advancement table, adding more golem specific evolutions, etc. What do you think? Lots of work to do on it, but this is one I’d love to complete, since it’s a passion of sorts, the whole wizard/golemsmith combo.
Whenever you get these hammered out (love the arcane fist stuff, btw), maybe one of the archtypes can be a Magus/Gunslinger. Call it a Gun Magus, or Spellslinger. Can get some ideas from this Gun Magus PrC.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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STUFF...
RE: Rogue sneak bonus:
Sounds good to me, what would it replace? I don't want to go down the route of dropping Evasion... maybe it could be a new Rogue Talent that has Mystery as a prerequisite? Something like this?Mystic Precision - When the rogue is able to apply sneak attack damage to an enemy, she deals an extra +1 precision damage to the target. At 8th level, and every four levels after that, this extra damage increases by an additional +1. The rogue must be at least fourth level, and have the Mystery class ability to choose this talent.
I'd make "mystic precision" a revelation that's specifically available to the mystic knave, to keep things simple. This is in line with oracle archetypes in UM, and keeps the mystic precision on the oracle side of the divide (rather than saying "it's a rogue talent, but you need to be an oracle!"). My 2¢.
@Elghinn -- my thoughts on a 'summoner' construct lord was to introduce a demiplane or other minor extraplanar realm of 'clocks' or something -- the Clockworld Plane or something I don't even know. And thence the summoner could produce clockwork stuff that is both physically a 'construct' and thematically/magically mechanical in nature. Just bouncing that at you while I work on other things.
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I'd make "mystic precision" a revelation that's specifically available to the mystic knave, to keep things simple. This is in line with oracle archetypes in UM, and keeps the mystic precision on the oracle side of the divide (rather than saying "it's a rogue talent, but you need to be an oracle!"). My 2¢.
@Elghinn -- my thoughts on a 'summoner' construct lord was to introduce a demiplane or other minor extraplanar realm of 'clocks' or something -- the Clockworld Plane or something I don't even know. And thence the summoner could produce clockwork stuff that is both physically a 'construct' and thematically/magically mechanical in nature. Just bouncing that at you while I work on other things.
The only problem with it being an Revelation is that the Revelations you can choose are dictated by which Mystery you chose. We could come up with a new Mystery that includes that Revelation, but that runs the risk of having every person who might use this Archetype pick that Mystery. I think it's better as a Rogue Talent.
I'd make "mystic precision" a revelation that's specifically available to the mystic knave, to keep things simple. This is in line with oracle archetypes in UM, and keeps the mystic precision on the oracle side of the divide (rather than saying "it's a rogue talent, but you need to be an oracle!"). My 2¢.The only problem with it being an Revelation is that the Revelations you can choose are dictated by which Mystery you chose. We could come up with a new Mystery that includes that Revelation, but that runs the risk of having every person who might use this Archetype pick that Mystery. I think it's better as a Rogue Talent.
No, no, as I said, oracle archetypes often have archetype-specific revelations available. This could be like that.
(You don't need to make it 'forced' like the one in the example, necessarily.)
EDIT: also I think Elghinn's suggestion was an insight bonus on the attack roll when sneaking, not additional precision damage. //ok done kibitzhing
No, no, as I said, oracle archetypes often have archetype-specific revelations available. This could be like that...You don't need to make it 'forced' like the one in the example, necessarily.
Yeah, I'd make it a Mystic Rogue/Knave (whatever we end up calling the thing) specific revelation by adding it in here:
Revelations: Beginning at 1st level, a Mystic Rogue can choose one Revelation associated with her chosen Mystery, and adds mystic precision to his list of revealations available to him. Unless otherwise noted, the DC to save against the Revelation is 10 + ½ the Mystic Rogue level + her Charisma modifier. Levels in the Oracle class stack with this ability when determining the required level for a Revelation and any save DCs associated. The Mystic Rogue may choose another Revelation at level 6, and then at every six levels thereafter. This ability replaces the rogue abilities Trapfinding and Trap sense.
Now, do we want the +1 bonus to attack or damage? Just asking. I just thought it more in line to a "true strike" thing. I'm easy either way. I'm thinkning this beastie is almost done?
That's possible. I've been trying wrap things around the summoner and eidolon structures and my head REALLY hurts. I'm taking a break for something a bit easier, but that may be what we want. Then what is summoned is a clockwork construct, that could eventually gain elemental-based abilities, or glemesque qualities? We shall see.
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I'd make "mystic precision" a revelation that's specifically available to the mystic knave, to keep things simple. This is in line with oracle archetypes in UM, and keeps the mystic precision on the oracle side of the divide (rather than saying "it's a rogue talent, but you need to be an oracle!"). My 2¢.The only problem with it being an Revelation is that the Revelations you can choose are dictated by which Mystery you chose. We could come up with a new Mystery that includes that Revelation, but that runs the risk of having every person who might use this Archetype pick that Mystery. I think it's better as a Rogue Talent.No, no, as I said, oracle archetypes often have archetype-specific revelations available. This could be like that.
(You don't need to make it 'forced' like the one in the example, necessarily.)
EDIT: also I think Elghinn's suggestion was an insight bonus on the attack roll when sneaking, not additional precision damage. //ok done kibitzhing
Ah, good point. It would be something like this:
Mystic RogueRecommended Mysteries: Battle, Stone, Wind, Dark Tapestry
Revelations: A Mystic Rogue may choose to take the following Revelations in place of those dictated by her Mystery
Mystic Precision - Mystic Precision - When the Mystic Rogue is able to apply sneak attack damage to an attack, she deals an extra +1 precision damage to the target, thanks to a precognitive vision guiding her strike. At 8th level, and every four levels after that, this extra damage increases by an additional +1. The rogue must be at least fourth level to choose this Revelation.
:)
I'd vote for a to-hit bonus rather than a damage bonus. Sneak attack is already a damage bonus.
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@Elghinn -- yeah like I said, got a headache trying to figure it out. Ultimately I'm not sure if we want the lord of constructs to interface with the summoner. Summoner is extraplanar; constructs are built. Why not just make it a wizard archetype, without worrying about a second class? I can imagine a construct-flavored summoner, but -actually- making the eidolon/summoned monsters constructs renders many of the summoner's spells useless. I'm thinking this should either be a wizard archetype or its own base class. Or maybe a prestige class that a wizard/sorcerer/alchemist could enter... I dunno man. I like the _idea_ of planar constructs but as we've both found, **headache** Okay I'm going to force myself to stay away from this idea for a little bit. :P
Dotting for future reference/contemplation.
:)
I'd vote for a to-hit bonus rather than a damage bonus. Sneak attack is already a damage bonus.
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@Elghinn -- yeah like I said, got a headache trying to figure it out. Ultimately I'm not sure if we want the lord of constructs to interface with the summoner. Summoner is extraplanar; constructs are built. Why not just make it a wizard archetype, without worrying about a second class? I can imagine a construct-flavored summoner, but -actually- making the eidolon/summoned monsters constructs renders many of the summoner's spells useless. I'm thinking this should either be a wizard archetype or its own base class. Or maybe a prestige class that a wizard/sorcerer/alchemist could enter... I dunno man. I like the _idea_ of planar constructs but as we've both found, **headache** Okay I'm going to force myself to stay away from this idea for a little bit. :P
Sounds good. Perhaps I'll just Wizard or Sorcerer Prestige Archetype my Golemsmith PrC. That would take care of things pretty good.
Elghinn I decided to take a shot at the Living Song idea. This is not as easy as you make it seem. ;)
Is it possible I could email you a PDF of what I have soon? (I don't think this board has private messages.)
Are you not wanting to share with everyone? Just kidding. I'd prefer not to put my personal email up on the boards. You can just post it as a spoiler and I can copy/paste it into a Word doc. Or if you have a place to down load on the net you could put it there?
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Are you not wanting to share with everyone? Just kidding. I'd prefer not to put my personal email up on the boards. You can just post it as a spoiler and I can copy/paste it into a Word doc. Or if you have a place to down load on the net you could put it there?Elghinn I decided to take a shot at the Living Song idea. This is not as easy as you make it seem. ;)
Is it possible I could email you a PDF of what I have soon? (I don't think this board has private messages.)
Actually, you're right--I don't want to share half-finished/half-balanced stuff. But more importantly, this is formatted text and a formatted class table.
Maybe you can try to catch me on Pathfinder chat today? (Or tomorrow, if you're short on time?)
Are you not wanting to share with everyone? Just kidding. I'd prefer not to put my personal email up on the boards. You can just post it as a spoiler and I can copy/paste it into a Word doc. Or if you have a place to down load on the net you could put it there?Elghinn I decided to take a shot at the Living Song idea. This is not as easy as you make it seem. ;)
Is it possible I could email you a PDF of what I have soon? (I don't think this board has private messages.)
Actually, you're right--I don't want to share half-finished/half-balanced stuff. But more importantly, this is formatted text and a formatted class table.
Maybe you can try to catch me on Pathfinder chat today? (Or tomorrow, if you're short on time?)
Actually, I'll just use this as a contact for anyone in this thread. Most of you though seem fine with posting and tossing back and forth on the boards. If not, here it is.
elghinn.lightbringer@gmail.com
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Excellent work as usual Sir Lightbringer. There is a folder in my computer with your name on it. These remind me of a Dragon article from way back at the beginning of the 3E era that had some cool multi-class combos. I forget what issue that was in.
IIRC, the Star Wars d20 (NOT SAGA) Hero Guide had something along these lines but yours are better developed and presented.
Mu only suggestion would be to add the list of 1 for 1 ability trades into the pdf so all of these design stuff is in one place.
SM
Making progress on the sword dancer... just sayin'. Expect a draft sometime tomorrow.
stuff + "Mu only suggestion would be to add the list of 1 for 1 ability trades into the pdf so all of these design stuff is in one place."
Thank you, SM. I endeavor to do a good job. It's sort of scarey when I hear people have folders with my stuff in it. That means someone's actually paying attention. Now, are you talking about my "matrix" I use to swap abilities? Honestly, I created it, and trust me it's not perfect, but actully rarely refer to it. I suppose I use it subconsciously when swapping. Is that what you are refering to?
I also think the Mystic Precision revelation should be an insight bonus to attack, not damage.
Also:
the sorcerer/wizard spell list[/b] whenever she chooses the minor magic or major magic rogue talent."Is that what you wanted cartmanbeck, or is that a copy/paste left over like I so often do? I feel it should be just the cleric list, since it essentially is a divine magic-based multiclass archetype. Thoughts?Comments?
Now here's a far out question. As I've stated before in other posts, and my profile, I'm working on novels based on my 24-year old homebrew campaign setting. Would anyone be interested in reading any of it? I'd like to actually test it out on an audience that isn't...well, me or my friends. If not, that's fine, it's pretty tough to hurt my feelings.
Sure, hit me... flakfromthepfrpghomebrewforums@dotq.org
I also write and know how important reading/feedback can be :)
Sure, hit me... flakfromthepfrpghomebrewforums@dotq.org
I also write and know how important reading/feedback can be :)
I assume this is your blog or something, and you want me to send what I have to you? What do I do? Or would it be easier to justpost a chapter on my mediafire? Let me know, I'm going to bed. It's 11:30PM where I am.
I dunno, if you have files, email them to that address; if you have a DL link, email that to that address. It's an e-mail address. One of many.
I dunno, if you have files, email them to that address; if you have a DL link, email that to that address. It's an e-mail address. One of many.
Chapter 1 is on it's way. I checked out your website, I see you do some drawing along with writing. Me too.
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Just a quick look, I think the following could be equivalent buys/swaps:
1 rage power
1/- DR
1d6 channel energy
1 domain power
1/day wild shape
1 feat
+1 bravery
+1 armor training
+1 weapon training
+1 AC bonus
+1d6 lay on hands (heal or damage)
+2 favored enemy
+2 favored terrain
ranger exploits (evasion, imp. evasion)
1d6 sneak attack
+1 trap sense
1 rogue talent
1 sorcerer bloodline power
1 wizard school power
+1d6 bomb
1 discovery
1 order ability
+1 banner
1 revelation
+1 oracle curse
1 hex
This is what i was referring too. Something that groups the abilities together and lets you ballpark their power relative to each other.
I'm beginning to think to the Dead Shaman...
He's the medium of a tribe with the spirits of the dead, capable of casting terrible curses and animate corpses in battle, but he's also the tribe healer who counsels the chief (or is himself the chief) and delivers messages from the ancestors.
He must have the Bones mistery and the Undead bloodline; he must preferably have the Wasting curse; I'd give him some Ancestors-mistery-like revelation too, as the other oracle archetypes do, notably Wisdom of the Ancestors (communicating with dead) and/or Storm of Souls. He could swap bloodline powers with revelations, and his mistery spells would be a mix of oracle and sorcerer.
Pretty simple, as for now... has anyone some suggestions?
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Also:
the sorcerer/wizard spell list[/b] whenever she chooses the minor magic or major magic rogue talent."Is that what you wanted cartmanbeck, or is that a copy/paste left over like I so often do? I feel it should be just the cleric list, since it essentially is a divine magic-based multiclass archetype. Thoughts?Comments?
Yep, I've changed it to be cleric list only, and based on Charisma.
I'm beginning to think to the Dead Shaman...
He's the medium of a tribe with the spirits of the dead, capable of casting terrible curses and animate corpses in battle, but he's also the tribe healer who counsels the chief (or is himself the chief) and delivers messages from the ancestors.
He must have the Bones mistery and the Undead bloodline; he must preferably have the Wasting curse; I'd give him some Ancestors-mistery-like revelation too, as the other oracle archetypes do, notably Wisdom of the Ancestors (communicating with dead) and/or Storm of Souls. He could swap bloodline powers with revelations, and his mistery spells would be a mix of oracle and sorcerer.
Pretty simple, as for now... has anyone some suggestions?
If you're going to force a mystery or bloodline, I would force only one. Like, "He must select either the Bones mystery or the Undead bloodline." Make the language pretty so he can choose both, but forcing both would be kinda lame in my opinion.
Just a quick look, I think the following could be equivalent buys/swaps:
1 rage power
1/- DR
1d6 channel energy
1 domain power
1/day wild shape
1 feat
+1 bravery
+1 armor training
+1 weapon training
+1 AC bonus
+1d6 lay on hands (heal or damage)
+2 favored enemy
+2 favored terrain
ranger exploits (evasion, imp. evasion)
1d6 sneak attack
+1 trap sense
1 rogue talent
1 sorcerer bloodline power
1 wizard school power
+1d6 bomb
1 discovery
1 order ability
+1 banner
1 revelation
+1 oracle curse
1 hexThis is what i was referring too. Something that groups the abilities together and lets you ballpark their power relative to each other.
I can do that.
Yep, I've changed it to be cleric list only, and based on Charisma.
Also:
the sorcerer/wizard spell list[/b] whenever she chooses the minor magic or major magic rogue talent."Is that what you wanted cartmanbeck, or is that a copy/paste left over like I so often do? I feel it should be just the cleric list, since it essentially is a divine magic-based multiclass archetype. Thoughts?Comments?
Thought so. I shall make that change.
*whistles innocently*
Advancement Chart
1. Bardic performance, bladethirst +1, cantrips, dance of swords
2. Blade performance
3. Magus arcana
4. Whirring dance
5. Bladethirst +2, bonus feat
6. Magus arcana
7. Knowledge dance, shield of blades
8. Improved dance of swords
9. Magus arcana
10. Bladethirst +3, fighter training
11. Bonus feat, mproved whirring dance
12. Magus arcana
13. Fortress of blades
14.
15. Bladethirst +4, greater dance of swords, magus arcana
16. Counterstrike
17. Bonus feat
18. Magus arcana
19. Greater blade performance
20. Blade thirst +5, true dancer
Spellcasting: The sword dancer learns a small repertoire of spells from the magus spell list, using the bard's spells known progression. He can cast these spells spontaneously, a number of times per day as a bard of his level, with bonus spells determined by his Charisma score. The save DC for a sword dancer's spell is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the sword dancer's Charisma bonus. Any spell a sword dancer casts has verbal and somatic components in addition to its normal components, unless the sword dancer uses the Silent Spell or Still Spell feats.
In addition, add the following to the magus's spell list:
0—ghost sound, lullaby
1st—chord of shards, dancing lantern, solid note, ventriloquism
2nd—allegro, distracting cacophony, distressing tone, ghostbane dirge, heroism, silence
3rd—arcane concordance, haunting choir, purging finale, reviving finale
4th—dance of a hundred cuts, discordant blast, heroic finale, shout, sonic thrust, virtuoso performance
5th—frozen note, shadowbard, song of discord
6th—dance of a thousand cuts, deadly finale, greater shout
Dance of Swords (Su): At 1st level, a sword dancer learns to integrate his attacks with a magical dance that accelerates his strokes and confounds his foes. To use this ability, the sword dancer must have one hand free and be able to move. As a full-round action, he can make a full attack, as two-weapon fighting, using his one weapon as both his mainhand and offhand weapon (so he makes all his strikes with one weapon, and one of them is considered 'offhand'). All attacks must be made against the same target. He is treated as possessing the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for the purposes of determining his penalty with these attacks. Because he is only using one weapon, if it is one-handed, he takes the normal penalty with his "offhand" attacks for using a one-handed weapon in his offhand.
Before he makes each attack, he must move 5 feet. This movement must be from one square adjacent to his target to another square adjacent to his target, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity from his target. Each time he moves he must move into a square he has not yet entered this turn. The sword dancer cannot use this ability if he is silenced or if his movement is hampered. He may make fewer than his maximum number of attacks, but his turn ends when he stops moving. If the only square into which the sword dancer could move to continue his routine is occupied by an ally, he instead moves 10 feet, through the ally's space. This ability replaces spell combat.
Bardic Performance: A sword dancer gains this ability, which functions as the bard class feature of the same name, except that the sword dancer has access to a more limited selection of performances.
Bladethirst (Su): At 1st level, a sword dancer can use bladethirst as an arcane duelist of his level, with the following difference: the enhancement bonus is +1 at 1st level, increasing by +1 for every 5 levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). This ability replaces arcane pool.
Blade Performance (Ex): As a free action when performing his dance of swords, the sword dancer may begin any bardic performance with an initiation of 1 standard action or less as a free action. Doing so expends one extra round of the sword dancer's daily bardic performance rounds. This ability replaces spellstrike.
Magus Arcana: The sword dancer may not select any magus arcana with effects dependent upon an arcane pool. Additionally, instead of selecting a magus arcana for which he qualifies, a sword dancer may learn one of the following bardic performances. Each has a minimum level the sword dancer must meet before selecting it. Once he knows the performance, he may use it as a bard of his level. Alternatively, he may learn any bardic masterpiece for which he meets the prerequisites, trading his magus arcana selection for it as though it were a feat.
Level 3: distraction, fascinate, inspiring blow
Level 6: inspire competence, inspire courage, satire, wordstrike
Level 12: dirge of doom, dramatic subtext, inspire greatness, suggestion
Level 18: dance of the dead, frightening tune, inspire heroics
Finally, the sword dancer has access to the following magus arcana.
Attack From All Sides (Ex): When using dance of swords, the sword dancer's target counts as being flanked by the sword dancer and any ally of the sword dancer's who attacks it in melee until the start of the sword dancer's next turn. The sword dancer must be at least 9th level before selecting this arcana.
Whirring Dance (Ex): At 4th level, the sword dancer gains partial concealment against the target of his dance of swords until the beginning of his next turn. This ability replaces spell recall.
Knowledge Dance (Su): At 7th level, the sword dancer gains this ability, which works like the magus's knowledge pool with the following differences. When regaining his spell slots for the day, the sword dancer may engage in a ritualistic performance which expends 4 rounds of his daily bardic performance. Doing so allows him to treat any one spell from his spell list as if it were in his spells known list for the day. He may do this a number of times per day up to his Charisma bonus. Regardless of how many spells he adds to his spells known for the day, his dance ritual lasts half an hour. This ability replaces knowledge pool.
Shield of Blades (Ex): At 7th level, when using dance of swords, the sword dancer gains a shield bonus to his AC against attacks made by his target until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus is equal to the number of attacks he made. This ability replaces medium armor.
Improved Dance of Swords (Su): At 8th level, the sword dancer is treated as possessing Improved Two-Weapon Fighting when using his dance of swords, allowing him to make an additional offhand attack using his base attack bonus -5. As before, all attacks must be made with the same weapon, against the same foe. This ability replaces improved spell combat.
Improved Whirring Dance (Su): At 11th level, the sword dancer gains total concealment against the target of his dance of swords until the beginning of his next turn. This ability replaces improved spell recall.
Fortress of Blades (Ex): At 13th level, the sword dancer's shield bonus to AC from shield of blades applies against all attacks. This ability replaces heavy armor.
Greater Dance of Swords (Su): At 15th level, the sword dancer is treated as possessing Greater Two-Weapon Fighting when using his dance of swords, allowing him to make an additional offhand attack using his base attack bonus -10. As before, all attacks must be made with the same weapon, against the same foe. This ability replaces improved spell combat.
Intense Blade Performance (Ex): At 19th level, the sword dancer may initiate two performances when benefitting from his blade performance ability. The same restrictions apply for the second performance, but it costs 0 rounds of bardic performance to start. At the end of the sword dancer's dance of swords, he must end one or the other of his performances. This ability replaces greater spell access.
True Dancer (Ex): At 20th level, the sword dancer takes no two-weapon fighting penalties when using dance of swords.
(Level 14 is empty because greater sword dance had to replace greater spell combat, but also needed to be at 15th level due to the magus's BAB progression.)
If you're going to force a mystery or bloodline, I would force only one. Like, "He must select either the Bones mystery or the Undead bloodline." Make the language pretty so he can choose both, but forcing both would be kinda lame in my opinion.
Um, actually I could give a limited choice in both. Like:
Mysteries: Ancestors, Bones or Dark Tapestry.Bloodlines: Aberrant, Abyssal, Accursed, Infernal
If you're going to force a mystery or bloodline, I would force only one. Like, "He must select either the Bones mystery or the Undead bloodline." Make the language pretty so he can choose both, but forcing both would be kinda lame in my opinion.Um, actually I could give a limited choice in both. Like:
Mysteries: Ancestors, Bones or Dark Tapestry.
Bloodlines: Aberrant, Abyssal, Accursed, Infernal
Nice!
Got it--I have another iteration or two before I send this though.
You can edit your new email addy out of the post above if you want to--I copy-pasted it. (I think you have an hour to do so.)
I have it. I have busy weekend, so I hope to take a look.
On another note, I'm glad to see others are taking a shot designing multiclass archetypes. Perhaps I'll post that list SM365 is wanting as a separate pdf. That way, everyone will have some concrete guidelines. Thanks to all who are joining me in this endeavor to hammer out the multiclassing issue. I think this is a really good way to solve the problem.
If you're going to force a mystery or bloodline, I would force only one. Like, "He must select either the Bones mystery or the Undead bloodline." Make the language pretty so he can choose both, but forcing both would be kinda lame in my opinion.Um, actually I could give a limited choice in both. Like:
Mysteries: Ancestors, Bones or Dark Tapestry.
Bloodlines: Aberrant, Abyssal, Accursed, Infernal
Exactly. This Is how I did the spellarbor in the first pdf, and it can be applied to the Mysteries too.
If allows for options but keeps the players within the flavor structure of the archetype.
So, from all our talking and bantering back and forth, here's what I've got cartmanbeck. I think myastic knave flows better than mystic rogue, but that's not too important.
A mystic knave uses the innate divine abilities granted her from birth to aid her martial and skill-based abilities. She is both gifted and cursed with an oracle’s strange visions and powers, and uses those to enhance her precision and stealth related exploits.
Primary Class: Rogue.
Secondary Class: Oracle.
Hit Dice: d8.
Save Bonus: +2 Will.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Mystic knaves may select three skills from either the oracle base skills or those listed on her mystery and add them to her class skills, in addition to the normal rogue class skills. The mystic knave gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 8 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mystic knaves are proficient with all simple weapons plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Mystery: At 1st level, a mystic knave chooses one mystery from the oracle class entry. Once made, this choice cannot be changed. At 4th level, a mystic knave gains her first mystery spell as derived from her list of mystery bonus spells in place of a rogue talent. She also gains subsequent bonus spells in place of additional rogue talents every four levels thereafter, up to and including her 6th–level mystery bonus spell. These spells are divine in nature, and may each be cast spontaneously once per day. A mystic knave’s caster level is equal to her archetype level. In addition, the mystic knave does not add all of her chosen mystery skills to her class skill list, as described above. This ability replaces rogue talent at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level.
Innate Magic: At 1st level, a mystic knave gains minor magic as a bonus rogue talent. This is exactly like the rogue talent of the same name, except that the mystic knave must select her 0-level spell from the cleric spell list instead of the wizard/sorcerer spell list. This qualifies her to select the major magic rogue talent. The mystic knave uses her Charisma score instead of her Intelligence score to determine the effects of any spells chosen for the minor magic or major magic rogue talent.
Oracle’s Curse (Ex): At 1st level, a mystic knave must choose one oracle’s curses. This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, but her effective oracle level is equal to 1/2 her mystic knave level for determining any level-dependent effects.
Revelations: Beginning at 1st level, a mystic knave may select one revelation associated with her chosen mystery. Unless otherwise noted, the DC to save against the revelation is 10 + 1/2 the mystic knave level + the mystic knave’s Charisma modifier. Levels in the oracle class stack with this ability when determining the required level for a revelation and any save DCs associated with it. The mystic knave may select an additional revelation at 6th level and every six levels thereafter. This ability replaces Trapfinding and Trap sense.
Mystic Master Strike: At 20th level, whenever the mystic knave deals sneak attack damage with a melee weapon, she may choose to cast one of her mystery spells as a swift action, in addition to selecting one of the normal master strike effects. The chosen spell must target the recipient of the sneak attack, who receives no save against its effects. If the mystic knave deals sneak attack damage with a ranged weapon (including ray type spells), the chosen spell must be an area effect spell, with the area centered on the target of her sneak attack. Casting this spell does not provoke any attacks of opportunity.
Mysteries: The following mysteries compliment the mystic knave multiclass archetype: battle, dark tapestry, stone, and wind.
Revelations: A mystic knave adds the following to her list of revelations dictated by her mystery
Mystic Precision - Whenever the mystic knave is able to make a sneak attack, she gains a +1 insight bonus to her attack roll, due to a precognitive vision guiding her strike. This insight bonus to sneak attacks increases by +1 at 8th level and every four levels thereafter. The mystic knave must be at least 4th level to select this revelation.
Rogue Talents: The following rogue talents complement the mystic knave multiclass archetype: distracting attack*, fast stealth, finesse rogue, hard to fool*, major magic, minor magic, offensive defense*, positioning attack*, resiliency, slow reactions, surprise attack, and weapon training. (*Advanced Player’s Guide)
Advanced Talents: The following advanced rogue talents complement the mystic knave archetype: another day*, defensive roll, dispelling attack, fast tumble*, improved evasion, redirect attack*, skill mastery, and thoughtful reexamining*. (*Advanced Player’s Guide)
Special: A mystic knave qualifies for the Extra Revelation feat. Also, she may select spells from the cleric spell list whenever she chooses the minor magic or major magic rogue talent.
Table 1–1: Battle Knave
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Sneak attack +1d6, innate magic, mystery, oracle’s curse, revelation
2nd +1 +0 +3 +2 Evasion, rogue talent
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Sneak attack +2d6,
4th +3 +1 +4 +3 Mystery spell, uncanny dodge
5th +3 +1 +4 +3 Sneak attack +3d6
6th +4 +2 +5 +4 Rogue talent, revelation
7th +5 +2 +5 +4 Sneak attack +4d6
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +4 Improved uncanny dodge, mystery spell
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +5 Sneak attack +5d6
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +5 Advanced talents, rogue talent
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +5 Sneak attack +6d6
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +6 Mystery spell, revelation
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +6 Sneak attack +7d6
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +6 Rogue talent
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +7 Sneak attack +8d6
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +7 Mystery spell
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +7 Sneak attack +9d6
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +8 Rogue talent, revelation
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +8 Sneak attack +10d6
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +8 Master strike, mystery spell
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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So, from all our talking and bantering back and forth, here's what I've got cartmanbeck. I think myastic knave flows better than mystic rogue, but that's not too important.
** spoiler omitted **...
Looks excellent! Your wording is so much better than mine for every description lol.
Looks excellent! Your wording is so much better than mine for every description lol.So, from all our talking and bantering back and forth, here's what I've got cartmanbeck. I think myastic knave flows better than mystic rogue, but that's not too important.
** spoiler omitted **...
LOL Then I shall paste it into my APG Archetype Final Doc. On to the next one.
Just wondering if my sword dancer got lost in the new post shuffle? Interested in your feedback, Elghinn. No rush obviously. I mostly wanted to make sure it hadn't been -too- inconspicuous.
Just wondering if my sword dancer got lost in the new post shuffle? Interested in your feedback, Elghinn. No rush obviously. I mostly wanted to make sure it hadn't been -too- inconspicuous.
Yes you did! Sorry! I'll take a look!
No worries :P
Also, 'true dancer' should say "This ability replaces true magus."
I know we're not into replacing the capstones of the primary class, but since the sword dancer doesn't have spell combat, I figured the best thing to do would be to present an equivalent ability. (One of the options with true magus is essentially to eliminate the TWF penalty when using spell combat, so this does the same thing for dance of swords.)
No worries :P
Also, 'true dancer' should say "This ability replaces true magus."
I know we're not into replacing the capstones of the primary class, but since the sword dancer doesn't have spell combat, I figured the best thing to do would be to present an equivalent ability. (One of the options with true magus is essentially to eliminate the TWF penalty when using spell combat, so this does the same thing for dance of swords.)
Going through your sword dancer, and I really like the flavor and flow.
Questions
1) What exactly are the sword dancer's bardic performances? I see bladethirst as the only one listed underneath the bardic performance entry. Is that it? I just want to make sure. I've also been doning some rewording of the entries to make them more clear and precise(hopefully).
EDIT: NEVER MIND, I just saw the Magus Arcana entry.
2) Bladethirst (Su): At 1st level, a sword dancer can use bladethirst as an arcane duelist of his level, with the following difference: the enhancement bonus is +1 at 1st level, increasing by +1 for every 5 levels thereafter (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). This ability also replaces arcane pool.
What is an arcane duelist, and where is the original ability found?
EDIT: nevermind, I found it on D20 PFSRD, the arcane duelist bard archetype.
Now the question is, do we want him to grant this bonus to others, or only to his own weapon?
3) "Level 14 is empty because greater sword dance had to replace greater spell combat, but also needed to be at 15th level due to the magus's BAB progression."
Yeah, unfortunately that happens, and it ruins the pretty look of the progression tables too. Oh well. We could alway come up with something very minor to put there?
Or, you could move bladethirst to 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter (2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, 18th), or keep it at 1st and have it increase at 4th and every 5 levels thereafter (9th, 14th, 19th).
I'll post the updated version once I get your answer.
Another question Flak,
For Knowledge Dance, does the ritual take 1/2 hour to perform, or do the selected spells gained from the ritual remain in the sword dancer's list of spells known for 1/2 hour? Need clarification.
Bladethirst @ 1, 5, 9, 13, 17 would work, I suppose. I don't see why he shouldn't be able to use it on others' weapons. Keeps it standard (and thusly modular).
Knowledge dance ritual is supposed to take 1/2 hour and last for the whole day. Sorry if my wording wasn't clear... I may have exhausted my cohesion on dance of swords, which was hard to phrase properly.
Anything else?
Glad you like it ... I wonder what the guy who proposed it will think :P
Whooooa just noticed something, why did you take heavy armor away from the knight errant?? That's a pretty big nerf/feat tax.
EDIT: ok I'm just going to belligerently ignore that nerf. :P
Here're the current versions of the knight errant and arcane fist, as of our last collaboration on them, with a few wording tweaks on my part to clarify some things.
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I'll do up sword dancer and post him as well once I see your feedback/edits. =)
This is fun.
Also, I'll be taking a look at your chapter soon. Got some work to do first, which I've been putting off way too long :\
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Sword Dancer
EDIT 2: ignore what I said about using weapon training prog (1,5,9,13,17) for bladethirst. It doesn't solve the problem! Hahahaha. I'd say keep it at 1/5/10/15/20 because that's the arcane pool enhancement progression. At 14th level, we can just... I dunno. What -can- we do????
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At 14th level, we can just... I dunno. What -can- we do????
Have you given the caster and weapon the ability to flank (for +2) yet? =)
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For those paying attention, the Living Song (Sorcerer/Bard), which I believe we resolved to rename to Living Refrain, is almost done. \o/
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P.S. Elghinn, how is the Lord of Constructs working out?
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These remind me of a Dragon article from way back at the beginning of the 3E era that had some cool multi-class combos. I forget what issue that was in.
You may be referring to Dragon #289, which featured:
The Martial Artist (Fighter/Monk)
The Monastic Defender (Monk/Sohei)
The Spirit Warrior (Fighter/Shaman)