Flak, based upon your suggestion of being able swap or not swap abilities from one class for another, here's what I did to the Spirit Warrior from the first Multiclass Archetype set. I think I may do similar to all the others, because it allows for very customizable multiclassing.
Spirit Animal (Su): A spirit warrior is infused with the primal form of a spirit animal. This spirit grants the spirit warrior certain skill check bonuses as shown on the table below. A spirit warrior’s spirit animal also determines the form he takes when using wild shape.
At 3rd level, a spirit warrior may gain an addition +1 bonus on checks to his related spirit animal skill in place of one increment bonus of trap sense. He may select to gain an additional +1 bonus to this skill check up to six times.
SPIRIT ANIMAL TABLE
Spirit Type Special Ability
Ape Gain a +3 bonus on Climb checks
Bear Gain a +3 bonus on Survival checks
Boar Gain a +3 bonus on Perception checks
Crocodile Gain a +3 bonus on Swim checks
Eagle Gain a +3 bonus on Perception checks.
Lion Gain a +3 bonus on Stealth checks
Serpent Gain a +3 bonus on Acrobatics checks
Tiger Gain a +3 bonus on Stealth checks
Wolf Gain a +3 bonus on Survival checks
Woodland Stride (Ex): At 2nd level, a spirit warrior may select the druid’s woodland stride in place of a rage power.
Wild Shape (Su): At 4th level, a spirit warrior may select one use per day of the druid’s wild shape ability in place of a rage power. A spirit warrior can only turn himself into a Medium animal of the same type as his animal spirit when he first selects the wild shape ability. This ability functions as beast shape I, but the effect lasts for 1 hour per 2 spirit warrior levels, or until he changes back. When the spirit warrior can wild shape twice per day, he can change into a Large form of his spirit animal. His wild shape now functions as beast shape II. When the spirit warrior can use wild shape four times per day, he can change into a Huge form of his spirit animal. His wild shape now functions as beast shape III.
Wild Rage (Ex): At 6th level, a spirit warrior may gain the ability to rage and wild shape simultaneously in place of a rage power. For each round the spirit warrior remains wild shaped while raging, he consumes two rounds of his rage ability instead of one. He may select wild rage only once.
Spirit Hybrid (Su): At 12th level, a spirit warrior may gain the ability to assume a humanoid hybrid form of his spirit animal whenever he wild shapes in place of a rage power. When in this form, the spirit warrior gains the senses, natural armor bonus, speed, natural attacks, and racial skill modifiers of his animal form. This also allows the spirit warrior to use ranged or melee weapons in addition to natural attacks during his wild shape. He may select spirit hybrid only once.
Dire Spirits: At 15th level, a spirit warrior can gain the ability to summon a number of dire or giant creatures of his spirit animal type once per day in place of a rage power or indomitable will. This ability functions as a summon nature’s ally spell of the appropriate level, and summons the following number of creatures as determined by the spirit warrior’s spirit animal: 2 dire apes, 1 dire bear, 2 dire boars, 1 dire crocodile, 2 giant eagles, 1 dire lion, 1 giant anaconda*, 1 dire tiger, or 2 dire wolves. He may select dire spirits only once. (*Bestiary 2)
Rage Powers: The following rage powers complement the spirit warrior multiclass archetype: animal fury, beast totem*, fearless rage, greater beast totem*, greater spirit totem*, knockback, knockdown*, lesser beast totem*, lesser spirit totem*, low-light vision, night vision, raging climber (ape, bear, serpent), raging leaper (ape, tiger, lion, wolf), raging swimmer (crocodile), scent, spirit totem*, strength surge, and terrifying howl. (*Advanced Player’s Guide)
Special: The spirit warrior qualifies for the Extra Rage and Extra Rage Power feats.
What do you think? Anyone else? What do you think of this sort of change to the archetypes?
I like it, obviously :)
Regarding the dire spirits ability, at that level I'm not sure how good some of the summons (Dire croc is CR9, the rest are iirc 7 or lower) summon once per day is. Is there a way to get it a little earlier and possibly make it scale with level (i.e. by eventually incresing the number of animals, adding the advanced template, some spirit-based template etc).
Apart from that, I think it's quite cool. I do wish rangers had an option that allowed some degree of the druid's wildshape, say instead of their bonus feats.
Regarding the dire spirits ability, at that level I'm not sure how good some of the summons (Dire croc is CR9, the rest are iirc 7 or lower) summon once per day is. Is there a way to get it a little earlier and possibly make it scale with level (i.e. by eventually incresing the number of animals, adding the advanced template, some spirit-based template etc).
Apart from that, I think it's quite cool. I do wish rangers had an option that allowed some degree of the druid's wildshape, say instead of their bonus feats.
My original thought was to let them summon a number of HD, scaled with level, that would let them summon both normal animals of their animal spirit type and/or dire versions, up to the allowed HD. Maybe I'll go back to that and see about reworking it to scale with level.
I've moved the "Spirit Hybrid" ability to 8th level, and "Dire Spirits" to 10th, and changed it to the following.
At 10th level, a spirit warrior may gain the ability to summon a number of normal, dire, or giant creatures of his spirit animal type once per day in place of a rage power. This ability functions as a summon nature’s ally spell of the appropriate level, and summons a number of the following creatures as determined by the spirit warrior’s spirit animal equal to his spirit warrior level: ape or dire ape; bear or dire bear; boar or dire boar; crocodile or dire crocodile; eagle or giant eagle; lion or dire lion; constrictor snake, venomous snake, emperor cobra*, or giant anaconda*; tiger or dire tiger; wolf or dire wolf.
At 14th level, a spirit warrior may add the advanced or giant template to a summoned animal. Doing so increases the creature’s equivalent HD by +1. He may select dire spirits only once. (*Bestiary 2)
This should allow for reasonable level scaling. At 10th, a bear spirit warrior could summon 2 bears, or 1 dire bear; at 20th, he could do 4 bears or 2 dire bears, or 2 bears and 1 dire bear.
For a 10th level serpent spirit warrior, he can summon 5 venomoous or 3 constrictors, or 1 emperor cobra plus other normal snake; at 20th he could summon a giant anaconda + an emperor cobra.
So, this sould be a balanced scalable ability, being they can only do so once per day.
Here's the final version of the Multiclass Archetpes for the Core Rulebook. I will now be working on the APG Archetypes and PRestige Archetypes.
Knight ErrantInspire Competence is not worth 3 challenges. I see he gets versatile...
Yea, I'm not sure where I want to go with the cavalier/bard multiclass. If anyone has suggestions, please give'm up.
Also, any help with the arcane fist would be good too.
Now, back to Knight Errant:
Flak, being that this multiclass seems lackluster and aimless, I decided to do up a cavalier/paladin multiclass instead. It's actually based on a specific Cavalier Order I designed for the novels I'm writing, so I made some changes and did some tweaking, and here's what I have. Name could change, any suggestions?
Radiant knights combine the riding skill and knightly expertise of a cavalier with the righteous power and divine eminence of a paladin. He can challenge or charge his enemies, train his mount to greater heights, grant resistance against fear, and smite those who oppose him in his divine calling.
Primary Class: Cavalier.
Secondary Class: Paladin.
Alignment: Lawful good or lawful neutral.
Hit Dice: d10.
Save Bonus: +2 Will.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Radiant knights may select three paladin skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cavalier class skills, and those he gains from his order. The radiant knight gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 4 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Radiant knights are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (light, medium, and heavy) and with shields (except tower shields).
Code of Conduct: A radiant knight must adhere to the guidelines presented in the paladin’s code of conduct, but apply them to both lawful good and lawful neutral alignments accordingly.
Signature Weapon: At 1st level, a radiant knight may select a signature weapon in place of tactician. The radiant knight must designate one type of knightly weapon, as noted below, with which he has trained unceasingly. Whenever he attacks with his signature weapon, he gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 bonus on damage rolls. The radiant knight also adds his Charisma modifier to any combat maneuver checks made with his signature weapon, and applies it to the his Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against that weapon.
A radiant knight must choose one of the following from the following as his signature weapon (GMs may add other weapons to this list): bastard sword, battleaxe, flail, greatsword, heavy flail, handaxe, heavy mace, heavy pick, lance, light mace, light pick, longspear, longsword, morningstar, spear, or warhammer.
Smite Evil (Su): At 4th level, a radiant knight may select to gain one daily use of smite evil in place of one daily use of challenge. Smite evil may be used with the any of the radiant knight’s charge abilities. The radiant knight may select smite evil up to four times.
Aura of Courage (Su): At 9th level, a radiant knight may select the paladin’s aura of courage ability in place of greater tactician. This ability functions only while the cavalier is conscious, not if he is unconscious or dead.
Radiant Charge (Su): At 17th level, a radiant knight may select the radiant charge ability in place of master tactician. Whenever a mounted radiant knight charges a foe his movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity, for either him or his mount. In addition, if his target is also the target of his smite evil ability and the charge attack hits, the target must make a Will save or be blinded by divine radiance for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the radiant knight’s level. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the radiant knight’s level + the radiant knight’s Charisma modifier.
Celestial Mount (Su): At 14th level, a radiant knight’s mount gains the celestial template (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary) and becomes a magical beast for the purposes of determining which spells affect it.
Table 1–1: Radiant Knight
Base
Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Challenge 1/day, mount, order, signature weapon, tactician
2nd +2 +3 +0 +2 Order ability
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Cavalier’s charge
4th +4 +4 +1 +3 Challenge 2/day, expert trainer, smite evil
5th +5 +4 +1 +3 Banner
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +4 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +4 Challenge 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +4 Order ability
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +5 Aura of courage, greater tactician
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +5 Challenge 4/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +5 Mighty charge
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +6 Bonus feat, demanding challenge
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +6 Challenge 5/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +6 Celestial mount, greater banner
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +7 Order ability
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +7 Challenge 6/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +7 Master tactician, radiant charge
18th +18/+8/+13/+3 +11 +6 +8 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +8 Challenge 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +8 Supreme charge
Order of the Radiant Light
Multiclass cavaliers/paladins belong to the order of the radiant light and must dedicate themselves to the service of the faith of one of the deities of good, live a life of honor and valor, and ensure the freedoms of all who live within their purview.
Edicts: The radiant knight of valor must be of either lawful good or lawful neutral alignment, adhere to the strictures of the faith, punish the wicked, be just and honorable at all times, provide comfort and aid to those in need, protect the weak, defend the freedoms of all within their domain no matter their station, and shield them from the tyranny of those that seek to exploit them.
Challenge: Whenever a radiant knight issues a challenge, he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls made against the target of his challenge if the target makes an attack against a target other than the radiant knight. This bonus lasts for 1 minute. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the radiant knight possesses.
Skills: At 1st level, a radiant knight adds Knowledge (nobility) (Int) to his list of class skills. A radiant knight can make Knowledge (nobility) skill checks untrained. If he has ranks in the skill, he receives a bonus on the check equal to 1/2 his radiant knight level (minimum +1) when making attempts to identify military standards, family crests, or heraldry emblems or symbols.
Order Abilties: A radiant knight gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Calling (Ex): At 2nd level, the radiant knight can make a short prayer as a standard action, filling him with confidence in his abilities. At any point in the next minute, he can receive a competence bonus on an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check equal to his Charisma modifier. He must declare that he is using this bonus before the roll is made. The radiant knight can use this ability up to four times per day, once for each type of check or roll.
Stem the Tide (Ex): At 8th level, the radiant knight receives Stand Still as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. Instead of making a combat maneuver check to stop the creature from moving, a cavalier with this ability can elect to make a normal attack instead. If the attack hits and deals damage, the target must stop moving, just as if the radiant knight had made a successful combat maneuver check.
Divine Challenge (Ex): At 15th level, the radiant knight can make a divine challenge once per day. This functions like a normal challenge, but the radiant knight adds his Charisma bonus on all attack rolls and damage roles made against the target of his challenge, and gains a +2 sacred bonus to his armor class against any attacks the target makes against him. In addition, he receives a +4 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made to confirm critical hits against the target of his divine challenge.
Also, I posted a new thread specifically for APG multiclass suggestions Here
Excellent, it worked.
Maybe it's because you're not including the default cavalier abilities there, but I'm not getting a good sense of the give-and-take in this archetype. The tables in your PDFs do wonders for my comprehension >_> Also, you should probably specify the strength of the smite ability the radiant knight gets? Is paladin level = radiant knight level?
For arcane fist, I'll write up some suggestions in the next span of time. My main idea for fixing it involves making it a Magus/Monk instead of a Monk/Magus. We shall see.
EDIT: and I don't think a cavalier/bard is a bad idea at all... I'll think on it a bit and see if there isn't a way to make it more dynamic/interesting. Really i don't see why we can't make every combination interesting. ^___^
Maybe it's because you're not including the default cavalier abilities there, but I'm not getting a good sense of the give-and-take in this archetype. The tables in your PDFs do wonders for my comprehension >_> Also, you should probably specify the strength of the smite ability the radiant knight gets? Is paladin level = radiant knight level?
For arcane fist, I'll write up some suggestions in the next span of time. My main idea for fixing it involves making it a Magus/Monk instead of a Monk/Magus. We shall see.
EDIT: and I don't think a cavalier/bard is a bad idea at all... I'll think on it a bit and see if there isn't a way to make it more dynamic/interesting. Really i don't see why we can't make every combination interesting. ^___^
I agree, cav/bard would be great, it's finding the right flavor. I'd like to have all these feel like the Bone KNight does, but I have only so much brain power at a time. That's what the community is for.
I've added in the Advancement Table in the radiant knight above. Hate that they don't keep their tabs like on WORD. Smite here is = radiant knight level.
MAgus/Monk is fine, as long as it's an APG combo of somesort. I know some are more apt as secondary or primary classes, depending on the combo and build.
Okay, I 'get' the radiant knight now, thanks to the table (and to me being less tired now). I like it! Arcane fist time, be back in a bit.
Okay... arcane fist. I don't know if it's in line with your other multiclass archetypes, really, but I tried to do it the way I've done archetypes in the past, only more thorough. The base is the magus, I assumed we use his saves, spell progression, etc. Next I traded out proficiencies for unarmed strike, ac bonus, and fast movement, and then I did a bunch of other zany things. Details inside spoiler.
Advancement Chart
1. Martial sage, arcane pool, cantrips, spell combat, unarmed strike 1d6, ac bonus
2. Spellfist (with fists)
3. Magus Arcana, fast movement+10,
4. Arcane Ki (magic), AC+1, unarmed damage 1d8;
5. Bonus Feat, high jump
6. Magus Arcana, fast movement +20
7. Purity of body
8. Improved spell combat, AC +2, unarmed damage 1d10;
9. Magus Arcana, fast movement +30
10. Arcane Ki (lawful), sudden spellfist
11. Bonus Feat, diamond body
12. Magus Arcana, fast movement +40, AC +3, unarmed damage 2d6;
13. Diamond soul
14. Greater spell combat
15. Magus Arcana, fast movement +50
16. Arcane ki (adamantine), counterstrike, AC +4, unarmed damage 1d8;
17. Bonus feat, timeless body
18. Magus Arcana, fast movement +60
19. Empty body
20. Perfect Self, AC +5, unarmed damage 2d10
Alignment: Arcane fists must be lawful.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The arcane fist has the proficiencies of a monk. He cannot cast spells in any armor without suffering arcane spell failure chance.
Martial Sage: All magus abilities dependent upon Intelligence are now dependent upon Wisdom. This includes his spells per day, spell DCs, arcane pool size, etc. In addition, the arcane fist can prepare one fewer spell per spell level per day, and gains only 1 free spell in his spellbook at each level after first instead of 2. He can still add spells to his spellbook as normal. The arcane fist is treated as a monk for the purposes of determining the effects and uses per day of feats like Stunning Fist.
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the arcane fist adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a arcane fist gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four arcane fist levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the arcane fist is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Arcane Pool: As normal for a magus.
Cantrips: As normal for a magus.
Spell Combat: As normal for a magus.
Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, an arcane fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for an arcane fist striking unarmed. An arcane fist may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
Usually an arcane fist’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
An arcane fist’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
An arcane fist also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, with his damage scaling as he levels up.
Spellfist (Su): At 2nd level, whenever an arcane fist casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through his fist as part of a melee attack. Instead of a free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, the arcane fist can make a free melee attack with his fist (with base attack equal to his arcane fist level) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the arcane fist makes this attack in concert with spellcombat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This ability replaces spellstrike.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, an arcane fist gains a +10 foot enhancement bonus to his land speed. This bonus increases by +10 at 6th level, and every third level thereafter. An arcane fist in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Arcane Ki (Su): At 4th level, the arcane fist treats his arcane pool as a ki pool, and can spend points from it to activate any ki power he knows. He can still use it for everything for which he could use his arcane pool. If the arcane fist possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki or arcane pool, arcane fist levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of "arcane ki" points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The arcane fist can use "arcane ki" points from this pool to power the abilities of every class he possesses that grants a ki or arcane pool.
As long as the arcane fist has at least 1 point in his arcane ki pool, he can make a ki strike, as a monk. At 4th level, his ki strikes are magic weapons. At 10th level, his ki strikes are lawful weapons. At 16th level, his ki strikes are adamantine weapons. By spending 1 point from his arcane ki pool, an arcane fist can increase his speed by 20 feet for a round or give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. This is a swift action.
Finally, any time the arcane fist could select a magus arcana (at 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, or 18th levels, or upon taking the Extra Arcana feat), he may instead learn a ki power as a qinggong monk, using his arcane fist level as his monk level for the purposes of determining which powers he can select. This ability replaces spell recall.
Bonus Feat: As normal for a magus, except that at 5th level, the arcane fist adds the 1st-level monk bonus feat list, along with Stunning Fist, to his options. At 11th level, the arcane fist adds the 6th-level monk bonus feat list to his options. At 17th level, the arcane fist adds the 10th-level monk bonus feat list to his options. He need not meet the prerequisites for any of these feats to select them.
High Jump: At 5th level, the arcane fist receives high jump, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces knowledge pool.
Purity of Body: At 7th level, the arcane fist receives purity of body, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces medium armor.
Improved Spell Combat: As normal for a magus.
Sudden Spellfist: At 10th level, the arcane fist may combine his spellfist ability with a charge or spring attack action. He may not use spellfist when charging if he does not have a full-round action to use on his charge. This ability replaces fighter training.
Diamond Body: At 11th level, the arcane fist receives diamond body, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces improved spell recall.
Diamond Soul: At 13th level, the arcane fist receives diamond soul, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name, using the arcane fist's level as his monk level. This ability replaces heavy armor.
Timeless Body: At 17th level, the arcane fist receives timeless body, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name.
Empty Body: At 19th level, the arcane fist receives empty body, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces greater spell access.
Perfect Self: At 20th level, the arcane fist receives perfect self, which functions exactly like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces true magus.
Lemme know what you think :)
The Spirit Warrior looks just like what I was searching for. I would a barbarian "Berzerkir" character (a berserker who can transform in his totemic beast, as in the Edda Saga). I'll adjust it with the Serenity ability from Strategists and Tacticians (this fellow is a quiet and reasonable kind who suddenly becomes a lion in battle) and play it.
Too late to edit: I realized I'm missing a few ability types in there. Sudden spellfist I think should be Ex; all the others missing types should be whatever the original ability is (Ex or Su in most cases). Also my advancement chart says "Spellfist (with fists)"... should just be Spellfist. Derp.
And, while I'm at it, might as well knight errant...
Uses cavalier's saves, bab, hd, proficiencies, alignment restrictions.
Advancement Chart
1. Bardic performance, world traveler, challenge 1/day, order, fascinate, inspire courage +1
2. Order ability
3. Inspire competence +2, versatile performance
4. Challenge 2/day, mount
5. Banner, inspire courage +2
6. Gather crowd
7. Inspire competence +3, challenge 3/day
8. Order ability
9. Inspire greatness
10. Challenge 4/day, versatile performance
11. Inspire competence +4, inspire courage +3, jack-of-all-trades
12. Boastful song, sporting challenge
13. Challenge 5/day
14. Greater banner
15. Inspire competence +5, order ability
16. Challenge 6/day
17. Inspire courage +4, versatile performance
18. Righteous cause
19. Challenge 7/day, Inspire competence +6
20. Supreme Hubris
Bardic Performance: A knight errant gains this ability, which functions as the bard class feature of the same name, except that the knight errant can only use it on the following performances.
Fascinate (Su): At 1st level, a knight errant can use fascinate as a bard of his level. This ability, along with inspire courage, replaces tactician.
Inspire Courage (Su): At 1st level, a knight errant can use inspire courage as a bard of his level. The bonuses from this ability by +1 at 5th level, and every six levels thereafter.
Inspire Competence (Su): A knight errant of 3rd level or higher can use inspire competence as a bard of his level. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the knight errant has attained beyond 3rd (+3 at 7th, +4 at 11th, +5 at 15th, and +6 at 19th). This ability replaces cavalier's charge.
Gather Crowd (Ex): At 6th level, the knight errant is skilled at drawing an audience to his performances. If he is in a settlement or populated area, he can shout, sing, or otherwise make himself noticed in order to attract an audience to his impromptu stage. The size of the crowd depends on the local population, but typically is a number of people equal to 1/2 the knight errant’s class level × the result of the knight errant’s Perform check. The crowd gathers over the next 1d10 rounds. If the bard fails to engage the crowd (such as by performing, kissing babies, trying to use fascinate, and so on), it disperses over the next 1d10 rounds. This ability replaces the cavalier's 6th-level bonus feat.
Inspire Greatness (Su): A knight errant of 9th level or higher can use inspire greatness as a bard of his level. This ability replaces greater tactician.
Boastful Song (Su): A knight errant of 12th level or higher can begin this performance as a free action upon declaring his challenge. The target of his challenge must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the knight errant’s level + the knight errant’s Charisma modifier) or enter a rage, as the spell, for as long as the knight errant performs. Boastful song is an enchantment (compulsion), mind affecting, language-dependent ability and relies on audible components. This ability replaces demanding challenge.
Righteous Cause (Ex): At 18th level, the knight errant can lift a crowd's emotions and turn them toward a common purpose. First, he must gather and fascinate the crowd. Then he can use righteous cause. Fascinated creatures must make Will saves (DC 10 + 1/2 the knight errant’s level + the knight errant’s Charisma modifier) to resist. Those who fail are affected by mass suggestion of a plausible idea that lingers with them for one day. Typical uses of this ability are to spark rebellion, overthrow a king, build a beneficial structure such as an orphanage, or donate money to a cause. This ability replaces the cavalier's 18th-level bonus feat.
World Traveler (Ex): A knight errant gains a bonus equal to half his level on Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), and Linguistics checks. This ability replaces mount.
Challenge: As normal for a cavalier.
Order: As normal for a cavalier, including abilities at 2nd, 8th, and 15th levels.
Versatile Performance: At 3rd level, the knight errant receives versatile performance, as the bard ability of the same name. He selects an additional type of Perform to substitute at levels 10 and 17. This ability replaces master tactician.
Mount:[b] At 4th level, the knight errant receives mount, as the cavalier ability, using his knight errant level - 3 as his effective druid level for purposes of determining the strength of the mount. This ability replaces expert trainer.
[b]Banner: At 5th level, the knight errant receives banner, as the cavalier ability of the same name, except that instead of granting a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made as part of a charge, it grants a +2 morale bonus on Diplomacy skill checks. This bonus, along with the normal bonus on saving throws against fear, increases by +1 at 10th level and every five levels thereafter.
Jack-of-all-Trades (Ex): At 11th level, the knight errant can use any skill, even if the skill normally requires him to be trained. At 17th level, the knight errant considers all skills to be class skills. At 20th level, the knight errant can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed. This ability replaces mighty charge.
Sporting Challenge (Ex): A knight errant of 12th level or higher knows how to use his pride, sportsmanship, and multifaceted competence when competing with others outside of the battlefield. The knight errant may declare a creature as the target of a sporting challenge by expending one of his daily uses of challenge. Then the knight errant and his target begin their competition—for example: racing, arm wrestling, debate, performance—and the knight errant receives a bonus on all checks made as a part of this competition equal to his level. The knight errant receives the normal -2 penalty to his AC while using a sporting challenge, but his order's challenge effect is not invoked. This ability replaces the cavalier's 12th-level bonus feat.
Greater Banner (Ex): As normal for a cavalier.
Supreme Hubris (Ex): When using boastful song, all enemies within 30 feet are affected. The knight errant receives his challenge's bonus on damage against all enemies enraged by this ability, as well as whatever bonuses or effects his order grants his challenge. He receives his challenge's penalty to AC against all enemies when using supreme hubris. This ability replaces supreme charge.
OP: Definitely a GREAT idea. Something like this takes what Pazio has done with Archtypes and squared the number of possibilities.
** spoiler omitted **...
I shall take a look at the Knight Errant and Arcane Fist. Look good a first glance.
EDIT: If the arcane fist is still casting spells as a magus, I think there are too many swapped monk abilities, especially with being able to choose extra ones with swapping Magus Arcana. Still reading, But I really like what I see.
EDIT: If the arcane fist is still casting spells as a magus, I think there are too many swapped monk abilities, especially with being able to choose extra ones with swapping Magus Arcana. Still reading, But I really like what I see.
Do note I reduced progression by 1 spell/level (so he caps out at 4/level/day) and extra ki abilities cost resources (feats/magus arcana); also, they add flexibility more than power, since you only have so many arcane/ki points. I feel a lot of the swapped monk abilities compensate for losing proficiencies, but yeah, looking forward to the rest of your analysis. :)
Since the Radiant Knight bends slightly the paladin alignment (LG or LN), maybe the Witch Knight (or as you want to call him) might be LB or NB...
** spoiler omitted **
Good Question. Anyone?
Oh I also have a question -- I've got a little site somewhere on the internets where I put all the homebrew stuff I've made/am making -- cool witchu if I put arcane fist / knight errant on there? Subject to change and all that stuff.
Oh I also have a question -- I've got a little site somewhere on the internets where I put all the homebrew stuff I've made/am making -- cool witchu if I put arcane fist / knight errant on there? Subject to change and all that stuff.
Sure. We're all working on this stuff anyways.
Okay... arcane fist. I don't know if it's in line with your other multiclass archetypes, really, but I tried to do it the way I've done archetypes in the past, only more thorough. The base is the magus, I assumed we use his saves, spell progression, etc. Next I traded out proficiencies for unarmed strike, ac bonus, and fast movement, and then I did a bunch of other zany things. Details inside spoiler.
** spoiler omitted **...
I reworked a few things, level wise, and here's what I came up with.
Arcane fists combine the mental and physical training of a monk with the spellcasting and combat techniques of a magus. He can make multiple unarmed attacks, fall extraordinary distances, cast arcane spells and infuse weapons with arcane energies.
Primary Class: Magus.
Secondary Class: Monk.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Arcane fists may select three monk skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal magus class skills. The arcane fist gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 2 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Arcane fists are proficient with the brass knuckles*, cestus*, club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear, and temple sword*. Arcane fists are not proficient with any armor or shields. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an arcane fist wearing armor or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. In addition, when wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, an arcane fist loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement. (*Advanced Player’s Guide)
Arcane Pool (Su): An arcane fist gains a reservoir of mystical arcane energy that he can draw upon to fuel his powers and enhance his weapons, including his unarmed strikes. This arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his arcane fist level (minimum 1) + his Wisdom modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the arcane fist prepares his spells. This is exactly like the magus ability of the same name.
Martial Sage: All magus abilities dependent upon Intelligence are now dependent upon Wisdom. This includes his spells per day, spell DCs, arcane pool size, etc. In addition, the arcane fist can prepare one fewer spell per spell level per day, and gains only 1 free spell in his spellbook at each level after first instead of 2. He can still add spells to his spellbook as normal. The arcane fist is treated as a monk of his archetype level for the purposes of determining the effects and uses per day of feats like Stunning Fist.
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the arcane fist adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD. In addition, a arcane fist gains a +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 6th level, and an additional +1 for every six arcane fist levels thereafter, up to a maximum of +3 at 18th level.
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the arcane fist is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield, or when he carries a medium or heavy load.
Unarmed Strike: An arcane fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. An arcane fist also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on the table above. This is exactly like the monk ability of the same name.
Spellfist (Su): At 2nd level, whenever an arcane fist casts a spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through his fist as part of a melee attack. Instead of a free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, the arcane fist can make a free melee attack with his fist as part of casting this spell, with a base attack equal to his arcane fist level. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal unarmed strike damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the arcane fist makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This ability replaces spellstrike.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 2nd level, an arcane fist gains a +10 foot enhancement bonus to his land speed. This bonus increases by +10 at 8th, 14th, and 20th level. An arcane fist wearing armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Arcane Ki (Su): At 4th level, the arcane fist arcane pool becomes infused with ki energy, and can now spend points from this pool to activate his ki powers in addition to any abilities previously activated by his arcane pool. As long as the arcane fist has at least 1 point in his arcane ki pool, he can make a ki strike, as a monk of an equivalent level. At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness.
In addition, by spending 1 point from his arcane ki pool, an arcane fist can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus, increase his speed by 20 feet for a round or give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. This is a swift action.
Slow Fall (Ex): At 4th level, an arcane fist may select the monk’s slow fall ability in place of spell recall. When first gaining this ability, he takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. This effective distance to fall increases by 10 feet every four levels to a maximum of 60 feet at 20th level. This is exactly like the monk ability of the same name.
Bonus Feat: At 5th level, an arcane fist may select a feat from the monk’s 1st-level bonus feat list, along with Stunning Fist, in place of his normal bonus feat even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 11th level, the arcane fist may select a feat from the monk’s 6th-level bonus feat list, and at 17th level from the monk’s 10th-level bonus feat list.
Ki Power (Su): At 6th level, an arcane fist may select a 4th level ki power (as listed below) in place of magus arcana, and additional ki powers at each such interval from any ki power list equal to his archetype level –3. For example, a 12th level arcane fist may select a ki power from the 4th–level, 6th–level, or 8th–level ki power lists in place of his 12th level magus arcana. Ki powers selected in this manner use his arcane fist level to determine their effects.
High Jump (Ex): At 7th level, an arcane fist may select the monk’s high jump ability or any other previously offered monk ability in place of medium armor. This is exactly like the monk ability of the same name.
Sudden Spellfist: At 10th level, an arcane fist gains the ability to combine his spellfist ability with a charge or spring attack action in place of fighter training. He may not use spellfist when charging if he does not have a full-round action to use on his charge.
Purity of Body (Ex): At 11th level, an arcane fist may select the monk’s purity of body ability or any other previously offered monk ability in place of improved spell recall. This is exactly like the monk ability of the same name.
Diamond Body (Su): At 13th level, an arcane fist the arcane fist may select the monk’s diamond body ability or any other previously offered monk ability in place of heavy armor. This is exactly like the monk ability of the same name.
Diamond Soul (Ex): At 19th level, an arcane fist the arcane fist may select the monk’s diamond soul or any other previously offered monk ability in place of greater spell access. This is exactly like the monk ability of the same name.
Magus Arcana: The following magus arcana complement the arcane fist multiclass archetype: arcane accuracy*, close range*, critical strike*, hasted assault*, maneuver mastery*, pool strike*, reflection*, and spell shield*. (*Ultimate Magic)
Table 1–1: Arcane Fist
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +2 +2 +2 Arcane pool, cantrips, martial sage, spell combat, 2 0 — — — — —
unarmed strike (1d4), AC bonus (+0)
2nd +1 +3 +2 +3 Spellfist, fast movement (+10 ft.) 3 1 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +3 +3 Magus arcana, arcane ki 3 2 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +3 +4 Arcane ki (magic), slow fall, spell recall, unarmed strike (1d6) 3 2 0 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +3 +4 Bonus feat (monk) 3 3 1 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +4 +5 Magus arcana, ki power, AC bonus (+1) 4 3 2 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +4 +5 Knowledge pool, medium armor, high jump 4 3 2 0 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +4 +6 Improved spell combat, fast movement (+20 ft.), 4 3 3 1 — — —
unarmed strike (1d8)
9th +6/+1 +6 +5 +6 Magus arcana 4 4 3 2 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +5 +7 Arcane ki (lawful), fighter training, sudden spellfist 4 4 3 2 0 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +5 +7 Bonus feat (monk), improved spell recall, purity of body 4 4 3 3 1 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +6 +8 Magus arcana, unarmed strike (1d10), AC bonus (+2) 4 4 4 3 2 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +6 +8 Heavy armor, diamond body 4 4 4 3 2 0 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +6 +9 Greater spell combat, fast movement (+30 ft.) 4 4 4 3 3 1 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +7 +9 Magus arcana 4 4 4 4 3 2 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +7 +10 Arcane ki (adamantine), counterstrike, unarmed strike (2d6) 4 4 4 4 3 2 0
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +7 +10 Bonus feat (monk) 4 4 4 4 3 3 1
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +8 +11 Magus arcana, AC bonus (+3) 4 4 4 4 4 3 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +8 +11 Greater spell access, diamond soul, 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +8 +12 True magus, fast movement (+40 ft.), unarmed strike (2d8) 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
I don’t think the arcane fist should have access to as many abilities as the Qinggong monk, nor necessarily the same ones. Perhaps a few appropriate monkish abilities, some appropriate spells, and some appropriate feats. I thinkwe should rework the lists to make them arcane fist specific.
Hmm, I appreciate lowering the level of ki powers available to the arcane fist, but I'm not sure about the other nerfs. I feel like fast movement / AC bonus / unarmed strike stuff just barely makes up for weapon & armor proficiencies, and I don't see why they should be nerfed relative a normal monk. I also don't think medium/heavy armor should be presented as 'options' since the arcane fist doesn't even have light armor. In any event, it's cool that you seem to like what I did with spellfist, sudden spellfist, and the martial sage thing. I'm going to make a few builds—full magus, full monk, my arcane fist, your arcane fist—and see how they measure up to each other.
I like the idea of fine-tuning a ki power list for the arcane fist, but I also am very attracted to modularity, and the idea of just 'plugging in' the qinggong monk list is nice. We could maybe just restrict it to the spell-like ki powers to reflect the arcane fist's orientation.
Too late to edit: I realized I'm missing a few ability types in there. Sudden spellfist I think should be Ex; all the others missing types should be whatever the original ability is (Ex or Su in most cases). Also my advancement chart says "Spellfist (with fists)"... should just be Spellfist. Derp.
And, while I'm at it, might as well knight errant...
** spoiler omitted **...
I like it. I was wondering what you think about having a specific order for the knight errant, like I did for the bone knight. I think the Gather Crowd, Boastful Song, and Righteous cause would make great Order abilities.
As for Arcane Fist, I never thought about the losses he takes, such as loss of proficiencies, etc. I'll have to take a look at it again. Hey, tha's why we do these posts right? As for the pluggin into the Qinggong power list, that would make it easir. Perhaps we need to just make a short list of them that are most appropriate for the arcane fist, similar to how I list the complimentray rogue talents or rage powers for other archetypes? then that leaves it to the player, but suggests the appropriate favor by us.
Also, with the fast movement and AC nerfs I used, I see where you're coming from. However, I can't see them getting the highest unarmed strike damage, AC bonus, or fast movment, because they aren't single class monks. With the archetypes, there is some nerfing of the secondary class's abilities. What about a max +4 AC bonus and 50 feet fast movement. Nearly as good, but not as good as single class monk, due to his arcane training taking focus away from his monk training?
Re: Knight Errant order -- It doesn't make sense to me flavorwise that they'd have one order... the vibe I'm getting is more like, there are cavaliers of various orders, and they wander around and do stuff that's a bit more bardy/diplomatic/experiential than jousting tourneys. (Gather crowd and righteous cause, btw, are bardic performances from Ultimate Magic.)
Re: Arcane Fist -- The thing is, if he's getting 4/5 of the AC bonus and 5/6 of the fast movement -- he's still not getting that 1/5 or 1/6 of his armor proficiency. The way I see it he's losing ALL of his martial gear usability, so it makes sense to me that he'd gain ALL of the other class's compensation abilities. I'm definitely with you on reducing the power/number of monk abilities that the class gets, but I don't think having full AC/unarmed strike/movement bonuses will obsolete the monk in any way once we reach the right balance of other abilities. But yeah, it's definitely a work in progress and it's good to go back and forth like this! :)
Re: Knight Errant order ...
Sounds good, no "order" it is. I think we may want to include what orders compliment the archetype though.
I see your point. Much like the Kubudo warrior then. Then let's focus on the ki power lists, and keep the power/number of them a bit lower.
How's this as the final version of Knight Errant?
Knight errants combine the riding skill and knightly expertise of a cavalier with the bardic knowledge, performance, and bolstering abilities of a bard. He can inspire allies, charge his enemies, train his mount to greater heights, and perform a variety of skills meant to influence and confound others.
Primary Class: Cavalier.
Secondary Class: Bard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Save Bonus: +2 Reflex, +2 Will.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Knight errants may select three bard skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal cavalier class skills, one of which must be Perform. The knight errant gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 4 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Knight errants are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, medium armor, and with light shields.
Bardic Performance: A knight errant gains the bardic performance ability. A knight errant counts 1/2 his total knight errant level as his bard level for the purpose of determining the effects of his bardic performance abilities. This is exactly like the bard ability of the same name.
Fascinate (Su): At 1st level, a knight errant may select the fascinate bardic performance ability in place of tactician.
Inspire Courage (Su): At 1st level, a knight errant may select the inspire courage bardic performance ability also in place of tactician. This ability grants a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. These bonuses increase to +2 at 5th level, and an additional +1 every six levels thereafter to a maximum of +4 at 17th level.
Inspire Competence (Su): At 3rd level, a knight errant may select the inspire competence bardic performance ability in place of cavalier’s charge. This ability grants any ally within 30 feet and able to see and hear the knight errant a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as they continue to hear his performance. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels thereafter to a maximum of +6 at 19th level.
Gather Crowd (Ex): At 6th level, a knight errant may select to gain the skill to drawing an audience to his performances in place of his 6th level bonus feat. If in a settlement or populated area, a knight errant can shout, sing, or otherwise make himself noticed in order to attract an audience to his impromptu stage. The size of the crowd is typically equal to 1/2 the knight errant’s level × the knight errant’s Perform check result, but may also depend on the local population. The crowd gathers over the next 1d10 rounds. If the bard fails to engage the crowd (such as by performing, kissing babies, trying to use fascinate, and so on), it disperses over the next 1d10 rounds.
Inspire Greatness (Su):[i/] At 9th level, a knight errant may select the inspire greatness bardic performance ability in place of greater tactician.
[i]Boastful Song (Su): At 12th level, a knight errant may select to perform a boastful song as a free action upon declaring his challenge in place of 12th level bonus feat. The target of his challenge must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the knight errant’s level + the knight errant’s Charisma modifier) or enter a rage, as the spell, for as long as the knight errant performs. This is an enchantment (compulsion), mind affecting, language-dependent ability and relies on audible components.
Righteous Cause (Ex): At 18th level, a knight errant may select to gain the ability to lift a crowd's emotions and turn them toward a common purpose in place of his 18th level bonus feat. He must first use gather crowd and then fascinate them, as the performance abilities. Once this is achieved, he may then use righteous cause. Any fascinated creature must make a Will saves (DC 10 + 1/2 the knight errant’s level + the knight errant’s Charisma modifier) to avoid the effect. If a creature fails it is affected by a mass suggestion and a plausible idea becomes implanted into its mind which lingers with them for one full day. This ability is typically employed to spark a rebellion, overthrow a king, build a beneficial structure such as an orphanage, or donate money to a cause.
World Traveler (Ex): A knight errant gains a bonus equal to 1/2 his archetype level on Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), and Linguistics checks in place of mount.
Versatile Performance: At 3rd level, a knight errant may select the bard’s versatile performance in place of master tactician, and additional performances are selected at 10th and 17th level.
Mount: At 4th level, the knight errant gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle in place of expert trainer. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, but use has an equivalent druid level equal to his knight errant level –3 for purpose of determining the strength of the mount.
Banner: At 5th level, a knight errant’s banner grants a +2 morale bonus on Diplomacy skill checks and on saving throws against fear instead, and an additional +1 bonus every five levels thereafter to a maximum of +4 at 20th level. The knight errant loses the normal +1 morale bonus on attack rolls when making a charge as part of this ability.
Jack-of-all-Trades (Ex): At 11th level, a knight errant may select the bard’s jack-of-all-trades in place of mighty charge. At 17th level, the knight errant considers all skills to be class skills. At 20th level, the knight errant can take 10 on any skill check, even if it is not normally allowed to do so.
Sporting Challenge (Ex): At 12th level, a knight errant uses his pride, sportsmanship, and multifaceted competence to challenge others outside of the battlefield in place of demanding challenge. Whenever a knight errant declares a challenge, he challenges the target to a friendly competition, such as racing, arm wrestling, debate, or performance. The knight errant gains a bonus on all checks made as a part of this competition equal to his level, but receives the normal –2 penalty to his AC while using a sporting challenge. His order's challenge effect is not invoked.
Supreme Hubris (Ex): At 20th level, whenever a knight errant uses his boastful song, all enemies within 30 feet are affected. The knight errant gains all bonuses granted by his order challenge, as well as his challenges bonus on damage against all enemies who become enraged. He also receives the challenge penalty to his AC against all enemies while this ability is in effect. This ability replaces supreme charge.
Orders: The following orders complement the knight errrant multiclass archetype: Order of the Lion, Order of the Shield, and Order of the Sword.
Special: The knight errant qualifies for the Extra Performance, but is treated as having a bard level equal to 1/2 her knight errant level for level-dependent requirements.
I may have presented too strong a case for "options." What I originally meant was, if you want a multiclass archetype to have access to two kinds of options, they should be interchangeable (i.e. rogue talents & rage powers, or hexes & discoveries, etc.) a la magus aracana & hexes for the hexcrafter magus. I don't think it's necessarily a great idea for the core features of the multiclass archetype to be "options."
Also, the knight errant's bard level is 1/2 his level for the purposes of determining the effects of his performance? I'm not sure if this note does anything, mechanically, aside from lowering the DC of fascinate...
Also I notice you're making these notes that various archetypes 'qualify for Extra [class feature]'—but because the prerequisite for these feats is just having the class feature, I'm pretty sure you don't need that note either?
That said -- sounds fine to me. Glad you like how I threw it together. Those orders work great in my opinion. For whatever it's worth, here's a description I'd thought of for the knight errant that's maybe slightly more flavorful? Also since this archetype gives up charging abilities, and your text still mentions charging...
The knight errant is a wanderer who enjoys the sights and sounds of foreign places. Less dedicated to being a champion on the battlefield and more to refining his skills and strengthening his friendships, the knight errant is nonetheless committed to his order and honor. As he gains levels, his abilities as a bard, diplomat, and figurehead come to the fore. Where other cavaliers might solve all their problems by blindly charging their foes, the knight errant can use his knowledge of the world and its inhabitants to convince others to join his cause, rallying mobs or armies to serve his order at his side, all with a cocky arrogance befitting the far-striding champion.
Re: arcane fist ... I'll take a look at ki powers later this afternoon, and present a "version 3" of the archetype's class feature progression for your inspection.
This is fun ^_____^
Boastful challenge and Supreme Hubris are good to me, but where's the part on mount training? The Knight Errant's mount is weaker than a standard cavalier mount, right?
What about a "reciting battlepoem", like Cyrano de Bergerac? Or is that more "duelist's" than "knightly"?
Yeah the bit about training his mount to greater heights I think is holdover text from Elghinn's original knight errant.
..."options"...
...1/2 his level for the purposes of determining the effects of his performance...
The knight errant is a wanderer...Re: arcane fist ... I'll take a look at ki powers later this afternoon, and present a "version 3" of the archetype's class feature progression for your...
I will be replacing the knight errant description with yours above. Shall we remove the "1/2 bard level for the puprose of his bardic performance" and just make it equal to his archetype level? After all, they are suposed to be good at influencing others right?
As to the arcane fist, I had a thought. Since the spellfist is a "unique" ability to the arcane fist, I think there should be a bit more to the ability. We have sudden spellfist, which I think should go to 7th level to replace medium armor. I propose we add the following to replace heavy armor.
Ironbound Spellfist (Su): At 13th level, an arcane fist can apply the maximize spell metamagic feat to his spellfist a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier. Doing so does not alter the spell’s caster level in any way. This ability replaces heavy armor.
I also added in this, inplace of the slow fall ability to make it more acane in nature.
Feather Fall(Sp): At 2nd level, an arcane fist can use feather fall for a number of rounds per day equal to 1/2 his arcane fist level + his Wisdom modifier. These rounds need not be consecutive.
As to the "options" thing, I just feel with the multiclass archetypes, their should be an ability to really customize them to a player's wishes, allowing for a variety of different builds with little effort on our part.
That said, you have the option to select more abilities through magus arcana. With the other abilities becoming cemented into the archetype (which is only four: high jump, purity of body, diamond body, and diamond soul) there should still be enough optionability (I know, that's not a word) for players to customize enough differenced between build. So, I'm alright making those four permanent.
With my new proposable, the advancement table abilities would look like this:
1st Arcane pool, cantrips, martial sage, spell combat, unarmed strike (1d4), AC bonus (+0)
2nd Feather step, spellfist
3rd Magus arcana, fast movement (+10 ft.)
4th Arcane ki (magic), high jump, unarmed strike (1d6), AC bonus (+1)
5th Bonus feat (monk)
6th Magus arcana, ki power, fast movement (+20 ft.)
7th Knowledge pool, sudden spellfist
8th Improved spell combat, unarmed strike (1d8), AC bonus (+2)
9th Magus arcana, fast movement (+30 ft.)
10th Arcane ki (lawful), purity of body
11th Bonus feat (monk), diamond body
12th Magus arcana, fast movement (+40 ft.), unarmed strike (1d10), AC bonus (+3)
13th Ironbound spellfist
14th Greater spell combat
15th Magus arcana, fast movement (+50 ft.)
16th Arcane ki (adamantine), counterstrike, unarmed strike (2d6), AC bonus (+4)
17th Bonus feat (monk)
18th Magus arcana, fast movement (+60 ft.)
19th Diamond soul
20th True magus, unarmed strike (2d8), AC bonus (+5)
How's this as a short list for the arcane fist? I've simple made them at levels based on the magus arcana levels.
6th-Level Ki Powers
Acrobatic Steps (1 ki point)
Deny Death*, † (0 ki points)
feather step** (self only, 1 ki point)
hydraulic push** (1 ki point)
Ki Stand*, † (0 ki points)
Power Attack (1 ki point)
Quick Draw (1 ki point)
scorching ray (2 ki points)
Throw Anything (1 ki point)
true strike (self only, 1 ki point)
9th-Level Ki Powers
cloak of winds** (self only, 2 ki points)
gaseous form (self only, 1 ki point)
Heroic Recovery**, † (1 ki point)
hydraulic torrent ** (2 ki points)
Sidestep **, † (1 ki point)
Snatch Arrows† (1 ki point)
Spring Attack (1 ki point)
12th-Level Ki Powers
Gliding Steps*, † (1 ki point)
restoration (self only, 2 ki points)
silk to steel* (1 ki point)
Lunge (1 ki point)
Spider Step** (1 ki point)
Whirlwind Attack (2 ki points)
Improved Blind-Fight**, † (1 ki point)
wholeness of body (monk ability, level 7, 2 ki points)
15th-Level Ki Powers
Greater Bull Rush (2 ki points)
Greater Disarm (2 ki points)
abundant step (monk ability, 2 ki points)
Greater Feint (2 ki points)
Greater Sunder (2 ki points)
Step Up and Strike**, † (2 ki points)
Wind Stance (2 ki points)
Ki Throw** (2 ki points)
Cloud Step** (3 ki points)
Disarming Strike** (2 ki points)
18th-Level Ki Powers
battlemind link* (4 ki points)
Elemental Fists** (2 ki points)
quivering palm (monk ability, 2 ki points)
Improved Ki Throw** (2 ki points)
shadow walk (3 ki points)
Greater Blind-Fight**, † (2 ki points)
Penetrating Strike (2 ki points)
Knight errant bardic performance at knight errant class level = yes, in my opinion.
Ok... so: I think the arcane fist can just cast feather fall. I don't think he should receive a feather fall ability, nor slowfall really. As is it's an add-on, and one I don't think he needs. Also right now he's getting high jump 'for free' at 4th level (as I see it, arcane ki replaces spell recall). I would give it to him at 5th level (which is a kind of boring level for magi) and say it replaces knowledge pool. Knowledge pool will just spread the magus's ki thinner, and if he needs more spells in his spellbook he can buy them like any other wizard. I like high jump, purity of body, diamond body, and diamond soul being the 4 'concrete' monk abilities in the class.
Ironbound spellfist should also note that it doesn't increase the casting time, and that the arcane fist doesn't need to know the feat. Maybe like this, borrowing verbage from the Maximized Magic magus arcana...
• A number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier, when an arcane fist strikes an opponent with his spellfist, he can choose for the spell to deal damage as if it were modified by the Maximize Spell feat. This does not increase the casting time or the level of the spell.
The name, too -- why ironbound? How about 'deadly'?
On ki powers... list still seems kind of long. Maybe that's fine. I just feel it's a waste of space to present an exhaustive list like this. I dunno.
On options... sometimes they don't make sense. For instance, the knight errant shouldn't be able to get righteous cause if he didn't choose to get fascinate. I think such 'core' parts of an archetype should remain core. Options are good, obviously. You know I'm on board with that from our previous discussion of matrices and point-based systems and so on. Right now, though, we're trying to build easy multiclassing with strong flavor—and for that, some things shouldn't be optional. (IE.G. boneknight has to have undead bloodline.)
Getting close...
Oh, actually now that I think about it, timeless body makes way more sense as an arcane fist ability than diamond soul. Thoughts?
Last thing -- purity of body & diamond body are really close together. How about...
L7. purity of body (replacing medium armor)
L10. sudden spellfist (replacing fighter training)
L11. diamond body (replacing improved spell recall)
L13. ironbound spellfist (replacing heavy armor)
Okay I'm done nit-picking. Sorry if the back-and-forth annoys you, Elghinn, just seems like the more we chisel at it the finer the statue will be.
...stuff...
1) Knight errant bardic performance = archetype level (Done)
2) Feather fall is gone
3) High Jump to 5th, replacing knowledge pool (Done)
4) Deadly Spellfist (Su): At 13th level, whenever an arcane fist strikes an opponent with his spellfist, he can choose for the spell to deal damage as if it were modified by the Maximize Spell feat a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier. This does not increase the casting time or the level of the spell. This ability replaces heavy armor.
5) How about this for the lists?
Ki Power (Su): At 6th level, an arcane fist may select a ki power from the 4th–level list of powers as shown in the qinggong monk archetype (see Ultimate Magic) in place of a magus arcana. He may select additional ki powers from each subsequent list or those of a lower level each time he gains a magus arcana. Thus, at 9th level, he may select a ki power from the 6th–level list or lower, the 8th–level list or lower at 12th level, the 10th–level list or lower 15th level, and the 10th–level list or lower 18th level. Ki powers selected in this manner use his arcane fist level to determine their effects.
6) “The knight errant shouldn't be able to get righteous cause if he didn't choose to get fascinate. I think such 'core' parts of an archetype should remain core.”
I assume then that the bardic performance abilities should be concrete? I would agree, since they are supposed to be a “core” ability of the knight errant.
7) Yes, I think timeless body is more in flavor than diamond soul. Consider it changed.
8) Pertaining to ability level changes, I agree. Here’s what the advancement looks like now.
1st Arcane pool, cantrips, martial sage, spell combat, unarmed strike (1d4), AC bonus (+0)
2nd Spellfist
3rd Magus arcana, fast movement (+10 ft.)
4th Arcane ki (magic), unarmed strike (1d6), AC bonus (+1)
5th Bonus feat (monk), high jump
6th Magus arcana, ki power, fast movement (+20 ft.)
7th Purity of body
8th Improved spell combat, unarmed strike (1d8), AC bonus (+2)
9th Magus arcana, fast movement (+30 ft.)
10th Arcane ki (lawful), sudden spellfist
11th Bonus feat (monk), diamond body
12th Magus arcana, fast movement (+40 ft.), unarmed strike (1d10), AC bonus (+3)
13th Deadly spellfist
14th Greater spell combat
15th Magus arcana, fast movement (+50 ft.)
16th Arcane ki (adamantine), counterstrike, unarmed strike (2d6), AC bonus (+4)
17th Bonus feat (monk)
18th Magus arcana, fast movement (+60 ft.)
19th Timeless body
20th True magus, unarmed strike (2d8), AC bonus (+5)
9) “Okay I'm done nit-picking. Sorry if the back-and-forth annoys you, Elghinn, just seems like the more we chisel at it the finer the statue will be.”
That’s how we get the best results, Flak. I with you on that!! Keep it going!
Wheeeeee =)
Ki Power (Su): At 6th level, an arcane fist may select a ki power from the 4th–level list of powers as shown in the qinggong monk archetype (see Ultimate Magic) in place of a magus arcana. He may select additional ki powers from each subsequent list or those of a lower level each time he gains a magus arcana. Thus, at 9th level, he may select a ki power from the 6th–level list or lower, the 8th–level list or lower at 12th level, the 10th–level list or lower 15th level, and the 10th–level list or lower 18th level. Ki powers selected in this manner use his arcane fist level to determine their effects.
Nice, I like it. But I think you mean "the 10th-level list or lower at 15th level, and the 12th-level list or lower at 18th level." And we can tighten it up a bit like so: "Ki powers selected in this manner use the arcane fist's level to determine their effects."
Alrighty this is great. Knight errant is, for all intents and purposes, done; arcane fist is pretty much done as well.
Anything else you want/need my input on at this level, or should I go back to kibitzing on your creations? I'd be happy to churn out drafts of possible combinations if you like, and it seems the queue is long judging by the other thread.
Wheeeeee =)...
I shal fix those mistakes and place those two in my APG Final file.
I'm currently looking at the Lord of Constructs. I'm reading through the Golems in the Bestiaries, and what it takes to construct them My thoughts are making the "Master of Constructs" a Summoner(P)/Wizard Elementalist School(S). The archetype will be able to summon forth a "golem" instead of an eidolon, from a specific elemental plane. the Archetype can select one of the 5 elements (earth, fire, metal, water, wood) and that determines the type of golem he can summon, like so.
Elemental Schools
Earth – stone golem, flesh golem, carrion golem, glass golem
Fire – clay golem, glass golem, iron golem,
Metal – iron golem, mithral golem, clockwork golem, adamantine golem
Water – ice golem, alchemical golem
Wood – wood golemWe could reduce each elemet to only one type of golem, but that's for later. We need to come up with the abilities and advancements of the golem. I think we can just plaster the golem advancement on to the eidolon progression, more or less.
This way, we're not worrying about the character having to fund the construction of golems, but can pull them to his side from the elemental planes. Looking at the goelms again, such as the mithral and adamantine, I think we may want to restrict the golems to clay, stone, wood, iron, and ice. We'll see.
Also, I was looking at the shield golem under the Golem Intro in Bestiary 1. There's some interesting abilities or properties that may be good to incorporate. It's all pelimenary right now, but take a look and see what you can come up with.
Hope you get the flavor and direction I'm trying to go with. Good Luck!! Anyone else out there wanting to join us, be my guest.
Ultimate Magic has a big section on construction creation and modification. Worth a gander. I'll see if I can think up anything cool.
EDIT: golems are probably the wrong way to go about it. They imply too much power, and are each a unique stat block at varying CRs. We should probably have a 'generic' "construct companion" who follows animal companion or eidolon advancement (depending).
Ultimate Magic has a big section on construction creation and modification. Worth a gander. I'll see if I can think up anything cool.
EDIT: golems are probably the wrong way to go about it. They imply too much power, and are each a unique stat block at varying CRs. We should probably have a 'generic' "construct companion" who follows animal companion or eidolon advancement (depending).
Oooooooooooooooooo! Ahhhhhhhhhhh! I shall have to peruse. That may be what we're looking for to aid us.
Just to announce, I wish to focus on the following 5 APG multiclass archetypes for right now. Once we get these out of the way, we will move on to others. These currently hold some interest for me, Any help is welcome.
1) Lord of Constructs - Summoner(P) [UM: Broodmaster]/Wizard (S) [UM: Wood or Metal Elemental School] -- Abilities related to construct eidolons.)
2) Mad Biologist - Summoner(P)/Alchemist(S) where you replace the Summon Monster ability (which most people don't want to use anyway, since it replaces their Eidolon) with the Alchemist's Mutagen ability, but instead of it working on the Summoner, he can inject the Mutagens into the Eidolon to give them temporary but specific evolutions, or just a simple bonus to Str and Con. You could give a number of points per day equal to 1/2 the Mad Biologist's level. This would scale very effectively with level, and wouldn't make it too broken, I don't think.
I imagine using 2 points to add Fire damage to all the Eidolon's attacks for, say, the Mad Biologist level + Cha mod rounds. Then in the next battle, say your enemy can fly? You use a mutagen to give your Eidolon wings. The mutagens would still require 1 hour to create (so you can't make them on the spot) and only one can be active on the Eidolon at any given time.
What do you think?
3) Redeeming Sword (Paladin/Oracle): A "Joan of Arc" saint type, a spontaneous-casting paladin chosen unexpectedly by the gods to save/guide her people in times of distress.
4) Temple Assassin - Inquisitor(P)/Rogue(S) -- Abilities related to killing strategic targets of a faith.
5) Witchblade - Cavalier(P)/Witch(S): also Daimon Steed, Order of the Cauldron; perhaps the martial arm of a coven?
Currently I'm focusing on the Lord of Constructs idea. But we can bounce between the five if others have ideas. Of course names may be subject to change.
1. I tried figuring out how planes and constructs interact and I got a headache.
2. Interesting but I think it needs something mechanically different to differentiate its flavor from 'i'm a summoner, i create a shifty extraplanar being and buff it' -- which is pretty much what the summoner already does. Obviously 'mad biologist' has flavor, but this will be a tricky one in terms of balancing feel, mechanics, and that flavor.
3. I feel the paladin is already a Joan of Arc type. Oracle of battle is fine if you want to focus on the fighting side of a more casting-oriented approach; paladin is fine if you want to focus primarily on divine combat with spellcasting as an added benefit. If spontaneity matters so much, ask the GM to houserule your paladin as a spontaneous caster—but I really don't think this one merits an archetype. Feel free to prove me wrong though :)
4. For some reason I thought inquisitors were already temple assassins (that function is listed somewhere in the inquisitor's flavor, I'm sure, and there're a few archetypes in Ultimate Magic which facilitate it). That said, an inquisitor/rogue could still be a fun archetype to build. Maybe I'll look at that one next since the previous three are stumping me.
5. Seems neat, but I don't like the idea of forcing a coven angle. I'm not entirely clear on the daimon steed flavor. Is this basically just going to be the plague bringer (already created), but mounted?
stuff
1) I see there is a lot of info on Constructs, so that will be one for me to slog through and work on at a later time.
2) Yeah.
3) I shall ponder and see what I can come up with.
4) I'll wait to see what you come up with.
5) The poster wanted the Cavalier/Witch, with a specific order (Order of the cauldron). The martail arm of a coven was my idea. I'll see if there is anything I could change. Maybe a Witch/Fighter or Fighter/Witch; or maybe a Ranger/Witch? Don't know. Maybe this should be a Magus/Witch? Not sure. My brain hurts right now.
So, looking at what is listed on the other thread, what do you suggest we should work on? What's got good flavor, development potential, and would evole into something bone knightesque or arcane fistesque?
For the Witchblade, I just liked the idea of a cavalier having a mount which is also his familiar^^ The specific order was just a suggestion, feel free to make any changes.
For the Mad Biologist: I have a feeling that he could pass potions to his eidolon too, and have extra extracts like those that I tried to give to my Beastbrewer Alchemist archetype (Awaken, Atavism etc.)
Thing is, Bardess, there's nothing really 'biological' about the summoner. The eidolon is just minor planar matter, as far as I know. Maybe a mad biologist would work better as an alchemist/druid? The druidic faith could pose a problem there, though. But for some reason I think of the mad biologist as trying to tinker with the physiology of his subject, and the summoner can just dictate the physiology of his eidolon every time he levels up.
Also, isn't your beastbrewer a mad biologist? Nothing wrong with that...
EDIT:
Elghinn, I'm coming up dry on the temple assassin thing; my problem is I have no idea what to swap out for the inquisitor as all his abilities already fit a temple assassin. I could see him losing his spellcasting for something, but he's already so ability-heavy. I'll keep thinking about it, but also...
Sword Dancer - Bard(P)/Magus(S) [UM: Spellblade Archetype] -- Abilities related to dance and the utilization of animate weaponry.
Maybe I'll work on this one. There're some UM spells I want to turn into class features. Flavor coming to me. More later. :)
Thing is, Bardess, there's nothing really 'biological' about the summoner. The eidolon is just minor planar matter, as far as I know. Maybe a mad biologist would work better as an alchemist/druid? The druidic faith could pose a problem there, though. But for some reason I think of the mad biologist as trying to tinker with the physiology of his subject, and the summoner can just dictate the physiology of his eidolon every time he levels up.
OK, I see the point. Maybe if we make the Evolution Guardian, then.
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Stuff...
I think I've got a pretty good version of the Mystic Rogue written up. Here it is:
Mystic Rogue
A Mystic Rogue uses the innate divine abilities granted to her from birth to aid her martial and skll-based abilities. She is both gifted and cursed with an Oracle’s strange visions and powers.
Primary Class: Rogue
Secondary Class: Oracle
Hit Dice: d8
Save Bonus: +2 Will
Skills: Mystic Rogues gain all of the class skills of a Rogue and may select three Oracle skills to add to her class skills. These can be chosen either from the base Oracle class skill list, or from the additional skills granted by the Mystic Rogue’s Mystery class feature.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mystic Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow and short sword. They are proficient with light armor and are not proficient with shields of any type.
Mystery: At first level, a Mystic Rogue chooses an Oracle Mystery. Once made, this choice cannot be changed. At fourth level, and every four levels thereafter, a Mystic Rogue learns to cast spells based on her Mystery. These are taken from the list of bonus spells given in the description of the mystery, and are learned in the same order as shown in the description of the mystery. These spells are divine in nature, and can be cast spontaneously once per day. The Mystic Rogue does NOT add all of the skills listed under her chosen Mystery to her class skill list (see Skills above). This ability replaces rogue talent at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th levels.
Innate Magic: The Mystic Rogue gains the Minor Magic rogue talent as a bonus at 1st level, choosing one 0-level spell from the Cleric spell list. This spell can be cast once per day. This qualifies her to choose the Major Magic rogue talent later.
Oracle’s Curse: At first level, a Mystic Rogue must choose one Oracle’s Curse. This functions exactly as the Oracle’s Curse class feature listed under the Oracle class, but the Mystic Rogue’s effective Oracle level is equal to ½ her Mystic Rogue level for determining its progression.
Revelations: Beginning at 1st level, a Mystic Rogue can choose one Revelation associated with her chosen Mystery. Unless otherwise noted, the DC to save against the Revelation is 10 + ½ the Mystic Rogue level + her Charisma modifier. Levels in the Oracle class stack with this ability when determining the required level for a Revelation and any save DCs associated. The Mystic Rogue may choose another Revelation at level 6, and then at every six levels thereafter. This ability replaces the rogue abilities Trapfinding and Trap sense.
Mystic Master Strike: At 20th level, a Mystic Rogue gains the Master Strike Rogue class ability, but in addition to the effects listed, anytime she deals sneak attack damage with a melee attack, she may choose to cast one of her Mystery Spells as a swift action. The spell must target the opponent she just dealt sneak attack damage to, and the spell affects that creature with no save and requires no additional attack roll. If the Mystic Rogue instead deals sneak attack damage with a ranged attack (including rays), the spell cast must be an area effect spell, and the area is centered on that opponent. The casting of this spell does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special: A Mystic Rogue qualifies for the Extra Revelation feat, and can choose spells from the Cleric spell list in addition to the Sorceror/Wizard spell list when she chooses the Minor Magic or Major Magic Rogue Talents.
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Class Abilities
1 0 0 2 2 Sneak Attack +1d6, Oracle’s Curse, Mystery, Revelation, Innate Magic
2 1 0 3 2 Evasion, Rogue Talent
3 2 1 3 3 Sneak Attack +2d6
4 3 1 4 3 Mystery Spell, Uncanny Dodge
5 3 1 4 3 Sneak Attack +3d6
6 4 2 5 4 Rogue Talent, Revelation
7 5 2 5 4 Sneak Attack +4d6
8 6 2 6 4 Mystery Spell, Improved Uncanny Dodge
9 6 3 6 5 Sneak Attack +5d6
10 7 3 7 5 Advanced Talents, Rogue Talent
11 8 3 7 5 Sneak Attack +6d6
12 9 4 8 6 Revelation
13 9 4 8 6 Sneak Attack +7d6
14 10 4 9 6 Rogue Talent
15 11 5 9 7 Sneak Attack +8d6
16 12 5 10 7 Rogue Talent
17 12 5 10 7 Sneak Attack +9d6
18 13 6 11 8 Revelation
19 14 6 11 8 Sneak Attack +10d6
20 15 6 12 8 Master Strike, Rogue Talent
ARGH I wish there was a Table formatter on here!
Nice one cartmanbeck, but maybe add a note saying that the mystic rogue's minor/major magic rogue talents rely on Charisma instead of Intelligence? Does that make sense to anyone else?
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Nice one cartmanbeck, but maybe add a note saying that the mystic rogue's minor/major magic rogue talents rely on Charisma instead of Intelligence? Does that make sense to anyone else?
That does make sense. I should specify that the Mystery Spells are based on Charisma also. Change noted on my master copy.
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Nice one cartmanbeck, but maybe add a note saying that the mystic rogue's minor/major magic rogue talents rely on Charisma instead of Intelligence? Does that make sense to anyone else?
Maybe the Mystic Rogue should completely replace the Sorceror/Wizard spell list with the Cleric spell list for her Minor/Major Magic abilities? That would suggest using Charisma for all spells and spell-like abilities. Agreed?
Stuff...I think I've got a pretty good version of the Mystic Rogue written up. Here it is:
** spoiler omitted **...
I know cartmanbeck. I've kept your original post info on my APG arcehtype worksheet, but just haven't gotten to it yet. I go where my inspiration goes. And by no means does that mean I'm ignoring you. Your mystic knave is on the list of "get to ASAP".
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I know cartmanbeck. I've kept your original post info on my APG arcehtype worksheet, but just haven't gotten to it yet. I go where my inspiration goes. And by no means does that mean I'm ignoring you. Your mystic knave is on the list of "get to ASAP".Stuff...I think I've got a pretty good version of the Mystic Rogue written up. Here it is:
** spoiler omitted **...
Oh no I wasn't trying to hurry you up on it, I just wanted to get feedback on the changes I made to it. :-D