Host's house, host's rules.
Really, all this is just the same sort of politeness that we all offer each other whether it's a game, a barbecue out back, watching sports, a social function, a party, anything, really. We're all socializing, just in different ways.
A game is no different.
^Quoted for veritas
I think the worse type of players are those that are uninterested in the game, and want to share that with everyone else, or players that try to railroad their own agenda. Sometimes that can be a reaction to what the DM does, but it really gets touchy when the player is your friend.
I definitely will use the idea InVinoVeritas mentioned about players acting out NPCs when someone splits from the party. I can only imagine the level of isolation the solo player will feel when the DM hands out NPCs to the other players at the table.
That would bring up warning bells with me.
A 12-year old has a classmate, who's 15?
That sounds like he's been kept back 2 years. Doesn't sound like someone who'd be good in an environment that requires paying attention, math, reading, writing and imagination.
He probably goofs off the same way in class, too.
They are not in the same class, really, but on the same school. They travel there together by train, because they all live near each other and they all go to school in the same city. That said, he probably does goof off in class. He did not give me the impression of being 15, more of being an intelligent 10- or 11-year old.
He actually said he could not help his behavior when I commented on it during the session. My daughter and her other friend decided to tell him he was not welcome anymore, and he answered: "But no one told me that I was doing anything wrong!" This confirmed all my suspicions about him, because I had given him warnings more than once during the session. He wanted to have another go at it, but my daughter plainly refused him. Good for her!I will continue with 2 players, and my daughter wants to take over the 3rd character. I told her she could run him in the background, but she said: "No, I want to roleplay him!" Which is great I think.
The strange thing is that the other kid (the 12-year old one) is diagnosed with ADHD. I never even noticed it while he was playing.
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The strange thing is that the other kid (the 12-year old one) is diagnosed with ADHD. I never even noticed it while he was playing.
Most kids that are diagnosed with ADHD don't have it. They just have shorter attention spans then grown-ups did when they were their age. Give an ADHD diagnosed child a video game and he will play it, non stop untill the end.
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The solution is veryu simple...turn off wireless and connect your laptop to the modem via a LAN cable. And say you've got only one. Or ban face/miniclip and other offending sites on your modem.
It would lead to confrontation - he'll resent anything that looks like a disciplinary action. We're all computer geeks so I can't really bluff technical problems or a lack of cords, and even if I successfully do so, he'll bring his own network cable.
He thinks he's justified in goofing off because his bull-in-china-shop characters are bored with intrigue. It's an issue of player taste - he insists he is interested and wants to continue attending the games (the real reasons, I suspect, are because all of his friends are there, and because he can't find another group), and then gets bored. He's also outnumbered as far as player tastes go. The other two players tend to take the long view and appreciate mysteries and conspiracies.
It would lead to confrontation
Which is what you don't want. What you do want is to talk to the guy and let him know that the computer is getting in the way.
He thinks he's justified in goofing off because his bull-in-china-shop characters are bored with intrigue. It's an issue of player taste - he insists he is interested and wants to continue attending the games (the real reasons, I suspect, are because all of his friends are there, and because he can't find another group)
If you have lots of intrigue and his character isn't involved, then yeah, his attention is gonna wane. Have you tried to create scenarios where his character would want to be involved?
You mention he's just there to hang out with friends. What's wrong with that? Aren't you his friend too?
He's also outnumbered as far as player tastes go. The other two players tend to take the long view and appreciate mysteries and conspiracies.
Have the other players taken issue with his play style? Sounds like your group needs to have a talk.
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He's also outnumbered as far as player tastes go. The other two players tend to take the long view and appreciate mysteries and conspiracies.
For a party with varied tastes it's difficult to keep half the player's from zoning out, while the other half is having the best session ever.
I have used one remedy with fairly good results: please the disruptive player(s) early in the session. just give them a little bit of whatever they like so much, so their craving stops. The disruptive player will now smile at their 'achievement' for an hour, and you can have a more serious session with the rest of the players. everybody happy.that said, I hate the Charisma-is-my-dumpstat-so-it's-okay-if-my-character-is-rude type...No, it's not OK!! it's unWISe to be rude. even an unpleasant low-charisma character can realise that. besides, it's annoying for everyone else at the table.
also - please STFU about "uhm, what happened last time" especially after I emailed you the storyline just a few days before. Please show a little recognition for the amount of time that your GM spends in preparation for your entertainment!
also - please STFU about "uhm, what happened last time" especially after I emailed you the storyline just a few days before. Please show a little recognition for the amount of time that your GM spends in preparation for your entertainment!
Are you doing all of this "work" for you players, or because you enjoy it? If you're feeling unappreciated, stop playing.
What GM in their right mind would allow any alcohol on the gaming table?
Yeeeaaah, I pretty much start every session with a Kraken & Coke in hand, offer to mix-up drinks for any of my players who want one (age range is 21 to 35), and then we get down to business. Half-way through there's generally coffee+Bailey's for everyone.
Mind you, anyone who wants to smoke has to do so outside and not litter the ground with their cigarette butts. Illegal substances are not an issue — everyone knows I have zero-tolerance for such nonsense.
The only time anyone has ever gotten drunk was due to trying a new recipe I'd cooked up — they didn't believe me when I said it turned out really strong. That occurrence has never repeated itself (and the recipe has been corrected).
As far as annoyances...
The biggest one would have to be when people get into ultra-chatty mode and we end up spending half the session just talking about non-game-related topic. Usually that only happens when one particular popular and buxom player is in attendance, but lately she spends about 9 months of the year on-the-road so I guess it's to be expected...
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You mention he's just there to hang out with friends. What's wrong with that? Aren't you his friend too?
This comment sounds a little too accusatory to me.
@ Face: My group (anywhere from 5-9 players every meet) suffers the same techno-plague from time to time, though mostly its the girls that get bored (mostly during long combat rounds) and want to pull out a laptop/ipad/phone instead of paying attention.
I made it a point to tell everyone at the beginning of the game that if they ever got bored or didnt feel like playing anymore, they were still more than welcome to come and hang out while everyeone else played. So far, only one person has taken me up on it, and after a few months of just hanging out, she has rejoined the game, lol.
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f you have lots of intrigue and his character isn't involved, then yeah, his attention is gonna wane. Have you tried to create scenarios where his character would want to be involved?
You mention he's just there to hang out with friends. What's wrong with that? Aren't you his friend too?
I can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time, it seems. When I write material that entertains him, I just get the other two players zoning out. One of the other players complains about it to me.
It's a problem because he has other time to be with his friends, me included, that isn't game time. Game time is not time to talk about youtube memes, play flash games, or try to disrupt my intrigue story and get the party killed because he's feeling a little trigger or sword happy. The rest of us want to take the story seriously.
To put it another way, he likes zombie outbreak movies. I don't. I don't hang out with him when he's watching zombie movies and tell him they suck. Instead I just skip out on those events because my tastes differ.
I've even tried padding game night with an extra "banter hour" for everyone to mess around before the game, while I get my notes, dice, books, and soundtrack in line. We're still not covering much ground.
The biggest one would have to be when people get into ultra-chatty mode and we end up spending half the session just talking about non-game-related topic.
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Especially when I'd rather be gaming and they're talking about the most uninteresting things.
This comment sounds a little too accusatory to me.
You mention he's just there to hang out with friends. What's wrong with that? Aren't you his friend too?
Sometimes you have to take the high road, show your quality so to speak. If you have a player who isn't as invested as you would like, but whose presence was appreciated by everyone else at the table, then just roll with it. Is it really that uncomfortable for you? If the it is, then you have a bigger problem anyway.
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You mention he's just there to hang out with friends. What's wrong with that? Aren't you his friend too?
Friendship has nothing to do with it. I have several friends who game, and i would *NEVER* have them at my table as players. I will gladly go out with them for a drink or a movies, but will never ever game with them again.
I do not like the concept of people coming to the game 'just to hang out'. If you want to just hang out, come on a different time, and hang out. Do not distract people who actualy want to play.
So, your friend thinks he is entitled. Tell him he is not. Simple really.
Face - I get what you're saying. You want this guy to respect Game time. Fair enough. Have you taken time to talk with your entire group about what they want in the game? If you include everyone in the conversation, no one should feel singled out.
Playing D&D is no different from any other social interaction; you gotta think about how your actions affect others.
So, your friend thinks he is entitled. Tell him he is not. Simple really.
No, it's really not that simple, unless you don't care what or how that person might feel after the conversation. You want the player to respect game time, try and respect them as well. In my experience, no one responds well to ultimatums.
One day those enemies (Rogues) laid a honey trap, they'd seen him act that way before. He walked into it and died.He accused me of being an 'arbitrary DM' and quit teh campaign and never played with me as a GM again (nor even with the players at the table for 'taking my side').
So, in other words: It worked better than you dared hope?
Getting useful feedback is always frustrating for me.
You'd get that less often if you took the advice you get to heart and become housetrained already.
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So, your friend thinks he is entitled. Tell him he is not. Simple really.No, it's really not that simple, unless you don't care what or how that person might feel after the conversation. You want the player to respect game time, try and respect them as well. In my experience, no one responds well to ultimatums.
For me it is. Its my fricking internet and if i say that facebooking and youtube is forbidden during session, he will respect that or not be in my game. If he doesn't well, he is disrespecting me, my home and my time. I have no respect for such people. And in order for me to respect you, you have to show me why should i. I do not grant respect to people off the top of my hat. They have to earn it.
If a player is distracting other players, is constantly bored and fiddles with gadgets, he is told to leave the game. Very simple. I will not be antagonistic or insulting. I will simply tell that player that our styles of gaming do not mesh, and that i think that he will find more fun in an another person's game.
And then i do not invite that player to the next sesion.
What GM in their right mind would allow any alcohol on the gaming table?
That would be me.
You can have alcohol without getting drunk. There are even legal limits (which are above "0.000000") of alcohol people are allowed to drive with. If someone is allowed to operate vehicles weighing over a ton at speeds of over 100kph with a bit of alcohol in their veins, I think they'll be able to handle roleplaying.
As long as you don't overdo it, it doesn't have to be bad.
And we had sessions where we combined benders with roleplaying sessions. Doesn't work for every type of campaign, of course, but for those campaigns it worked.
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What GM in their right mind would allow any alcohol on the gaming table?That would be me.
You can have alcohol without getting drunk. There are even legal limits (which are above "0.000000") of alcohol people are allowed to drive with. If someone is allowed to operate vehicles weighing over a ton at speeds of over 100kph with a bit of alcohol in their veins, I think they'll be able to handle roleplaying.
As long as you don't overdo it, it doesn't have to be bad.
And we had sessions where we combined benders with roleplaying sessions. Doesn't work for every type of campaign, of course, but for those campaigns it worked.
Well, the problem is that in Serbia, people do not know when to stop. I don't know why, but i guess it's in the collective genes of the nation. One beer is never one beer. That is why i flat out forbid drinking. Except for two guys for whom i know can hold a pint of vodka without anybody noticing. But they don't drink anyway, out of courtesy.
So, in other words: It worked better than you dared hope?
One day those enemies (Rogues) laid a honey trap, they'd seen him act that way before. He walked into it and died.He accused me of being an 'arbitrary DM' and quit teh campaign and never played with me as a GM again (nor even with the players at the table for 'taking my side').
Out-of-game issues, IMO, shouldn't be dealt with in-game consequences. Just say'n.
Hama - I don't know if it is your intention, but you come across as sort of tyrannical.
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Nah, i am just bitter a little, because i have been burned by all kinds of horrible players who think they are a gift from god. So i have adopted a no-nonsense approach to my games. And i tell that to every new player when we begin gaming togehter.
-When we play, we play. No messing around.
-When we divert to chatter, mess around as much as you can.
-If you are bored, try not to annoy others and disrupt gameplay. Tell me after the session and offer advice/comments/worries. I am very accommodating when approached reasonably.
-No Gadgets, Internet crap and listening to music other then one i play for the mood on my computer.
-Respect your fellow player's time as much as yours, you are not more important then any other of us.
-Texting should be brought down to the bare minimum. Of course, if it is something important or urgent, i'm not going to be an a**hole about it.
-Shower before the session during summer months. Nobody likes to sit next to smelly people.
If a player cant accept most of this, he has no place at my table.
The strange thing is that the other kid (the 12-year old one) is diagnosed with ADHD. I never even noticed it while he was playing.Most kids that are diagnosed with ADHD don't have it. They just have shorter attention spans then grown-ups did when they were their age. Give an ADHD diagnosed child a video game and he will play it, non stop untill the end.
OT:
That's because a feature of some forms of ADD/ADHD is the desire to be constantly stimulated, which playing a video game provides. As opposed to say, sitting quietly for an hour and listening to someone talk--the stimulation factor ends very quickly. ADD/ADHD isn't the inability to complete any task--indeed, many persons with ADD/ADHD are able to achieve hyperfocus when doing certain tasks (usually those which require full kinesthetic involvement--using the hands, etc.--as well as being audially and visually stimulated, which a video game does splendidly).
I absolutely agree with you that many children are misdiagnosed with ADD/ADHD, but that is not a good example.
I am speaking as an adult with ADD (I have learned coping mechanisms without being medicated) and my very ability to be "distracted" (or to need to pay attention to multiple things at once, rather than focus on one thing for a long period of time) makes me a pretty dang good gamer. But my focus fades extremely quickly in other areas.
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So does mine...i can make miniatures, draw city maps or write stuff for hours. But if my mother tries to talk to me, i cannot sit in one place or listen for more then ten minutes. ADD? I don't think so. It's just that it is so much easier to devote your attention to something that is interesting to you.
Now, if you say you have ADD, you have it. I'm not trying to dispute that. But people shouldn't mistake lack of interest with ADD.
Don't chew the damn miniatures.
Don't show us your porn collection.
Don't get the name for your character from the first object you see:
Canuck.
Marlboro.
Sansui.
Are not names, Jeff. They are brands.
Don't pick your damn nose.
Don't even think of picking up one of my white dice.
Don't interrupt an NPC, out of character, to clarify a rules point.
TRY to play a character, and not a tactical amalgamation.
Yes. I have heard of Monty Python. Yes I get the reference. Now stop. Just stop.
No, you cannot play chaotic evil.
You sat on the paper scenery. Why would you DO that?
When somebody phones and asks what you are doing, 'oh nothin, what you doin?' is hardly an optimal response.
'My character is a beautiful blonde with big tits. She's a lesbian' does not fill me with anything but foreboding.
Really? You kill the merchant who is trying to sell you a magical item? Really?
Is there a weekend when you will remember your character sheet?
Yes, I am sure that MMA fighters do it all the time, but your character is not really geared toward fifteen foot flying kicks.
No they didn't. They did not. Did you perhaps forget that I am an historian?
wrote a bunch of funny (and true) stuff
Is it bad when the group refers to you as the "Paladin of Pr0n"?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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The biggest one would have to be when people get into ultra-chatty mode and we end up spending half the session just talking about non-game-related topic.
Seconded. I only have one night of the week to game. I can hang out and bullshit whenever. So when it's game night I want to game, not hang out and bullshit.
Also, nobody else gives a shit about SCA.
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What GM in their right mind would allow any alcohol on the gaming table?That would be me.
You can have alcohol without getting drunk. There are even legal limits (which are above "0.000000") of alcohol people are allowed to drive with. If someone is allowed to operate vehicles weighing over a ton at speeds of over 100kph with a bit of alcohol in their veins, I think they'll be able to handle roleplaying.
As long as you don't overdo it, it doesn't have to be bad.
Agreed!
I drink on many evenings, but I've only been drunk twice in my entire life. I don't plan to get drunk again. However, I drink a whiskey and cola before a game, when I am gaming in my home (though it's light on the whiskey and heavy on the cola) and it usually "takes the edge off" enough for me to stop griping about the newest minor inconvenience in my life and enjoy the game for what it is.
...it usually "takes the edge off" enough for me to stop griping about the newest minor inconvenience in my life and enjoy the game for what it is.
Exactly. Right now, the only day of the week on which everyone can meet is for a live game is Tuesdays. The first player shows up about 10-minutes before the end of my shift (I telecommute), and the rest usually roll-up at my place within the next 30-minutes.
As such, there's really no time to switch gears from work-mode to GM-mode without it still seeming like work. Ye olde rum n' Coke basically helps to kick-start my creative juices and relax me from whatever calamities I may have endured.
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...it usually "takes the edge off" enough for me to stop griping about the newest minor inconvenience in my life and enjoy the game for what it is.Exactly. Right now, the only day of the week on which everyone can meet is for a live game is Tuesdays. The first player shows up about 10-minutes before the end of my shift (I telecommute), and the rest usually roll-up at my place within the next 30-minutes.
As such, there's really no time to switch gears from work-mode to GM-mode without it still seeming like work. Ye olde rum n' Coke basically helps to kick-start my creative juices and relax me from whatever calamities I may have endured.
I go straight from work to an hour long commute to gaming, two nights a week, because one of the players has his weekend nights tied up by a food service job...and I work in an IT Help Desk, I need something to help me forget my work day lest I take out my computer-nerd rage on the poor players.
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Hm...never needed alcohol to release some steam...i have my wife for that, if there is time, or a nice cold glass of coke with ice...that puts me in wonderland.
But i understand your points. I have no problem with somebody having a drink before the session, to loosen the nerves. What i have a problem with is somebody bringing a bottle of scotch or beer to the session and then getting angry when i ask him not to drink during sessions.
Hm...never needed alcohol to release some steam...i have my wife for that, if there is time, or a nice cold glass of coke with ice...that puts me in wonderland.
But i understand your points. I have no problem with somebody having a drink before the session, to loosen the nerves. What i have a problem with is somebody bringing a bottle of scotch or beer to the session and then getting angry when i ask him not to drink during sessions.
As long as it's your house and you make it clear to him up front that you don't tolerate drinking nobody should have a problem with that. I wasn't a huge fan of your first post on the subject, since I'm fairly certain I'm in my right mind(if I wasn't, would I know?) but have no problem with people having a drink or three while playing, either at my house or when I run chat sessions. But as a rule for your house though I'm 100% behind you, if someone is a guest in your house you are free to tell them what they can or cannot bring to eat or drink. I am generally an accommodating host, I'd be embarrassed if I didn't have drinks of all kinds and food to offer, but I've never had a problem with people abusing that hospitality so in your situation I might have a completely different opinion.
I love it when Pick On CourtFool Day rolls around.
Most kids that are diagnosed with ADHD don't have it. They just have shorter attention spans then grown-ups did when they were their age. Give an ADHD diagnosed child a video game and he will play it, non stop untill the end.
Actually studies have shown that videogames help kids with ADD. It doesn't prove they don't have it. It just happens to stimulate a part of their brain that allows them to concentrate.
Edit: Nevermind, didn't read DeathQuaker's response.
Greg
Given there are a lot of threads full to the brim with unhappy comments about "Evil wrongbadfun GM's", how about the stoically silent GM fraternity come forward and share your woes.
Spend hours lovingly and painstakingly setting up a great story line, only to have players rolling dice aimlessly and asking when the killing starts?
Players insist on taking CN (code for 'reserving the right to be a jackass at any/every opportunity) and then deciding not to bother helping the local village plot hook?
What happened to you?
Ahem...as the orginator of the thread the title atleast mirrors I have to say that thread is not full of horror stories of bad GMs posted as a player. I completely was posting that with my GM hat on in a attempt to get GMs to think before they do the things they just do blindly now.
Personaly I think too many GMs don't actualy improve anymore because the find the 'One True Style' for them and stick to it blindly...mostly because of a bad game they were in before or abuse from a douche player.
Personaly a GM should examine what they do after every session...and be open to new ideas and most of all be flexable.
Not that telling horror stories is uninteresting or not educational...and both threads of GM or player horror stories are fine...just setting the record straight about the thread that this thread title mirrors.
Sure and indeed my thread title mirrors yours, and equally this has been an illuminating and interesting experience.
Between the two threads lies a lot of points to consider and I think that each of us can see 'bits' in not just our threads, but the collective, bits of things we have seen/done in our own gaming lives.
It is true taht GM's need to evolve, that just makes sense.
Technology seems to crop up as a 'big issue' for gaming, but then the technology is something that can actually be embraced (for example) to make life easier and more fun.
Yeah the thread titles mirror, because when I saw yours I took it on face value, but that triggered the thought about the other end of the spectrum.
Anyhow, as I say, good posts in both.
Sure and indeed my thread title mirrors yours, and equally this has been an illuminating and interesting experience.
Between the two threads lies a lot of points to consider and I think that each of us can see 'bits' in not just our threads, but the collective, bits of things we have seen/done in our own gaming lives.
It is true taht GM's need to evolve, that just makes sense.
Technology seems to crop up as a 'big issue' for gaming, but then the technology is something that can actually be embraced (for example) to make life easier and more fun.
Yeah the thread titles mirror, because when I saw yours I took it on face value, but that triggered the thought about the other end of the spectrum.
Anyhow, as I say, good posts in both.
Oh I agree both are interesting and thoughtful. I'll even give my weight on two issue...
Beer at the game: I don't mind it in moderation personaly and will even have a beer during a game or two.. But if the host says no than I really don't need achole to enjoy the game. It would not make me upset to leave.
Tech: The problem I see is tech is a double edge sword in general. On the one side people use it to store characters sheets, store a ton of books on and keep track of things like init...etc. All of these things are great for gamers tools...
Unfortunaly it bring along a host of distraction. From text message...to comp. games...I even had one player put in a I phone(or itunes thingee) while the game was running because he was not immediately involved. He removed them when I asked him to turn it off no problem...but I was amazed( the guy was like half my age...damn kids and their toys).
The way is you have to lay down the rules. Personaly I believe in compromising...like save it for when you are not involved in going. But the group need to set rules...like a social contract almost and stick to them.
I run two different campaigns, one with adults and one with my teenage son and his friends. I personally don't mind a beer or two at my table with the adults (I rarely ever drink at all because of the battery of meds that I'm on) because we're all fairly responsible (heh) middle aged adults and game night is like our poker night to others. We laugh, we throw dice, we kill things, we interact with NPCs, we squabble over loot. We're just in it for fun. Besides, there are only a couple of the guys who drink anyway, and it's never more than a couple beers.
My son's group, however, is totally different. They know that in my youth I was an ethanol fueled bonehead, but we don't talk about it when we're together. In fact, we avoid talking about drinking and the like completely. Only one kid smokes, and that's rarely. He's also the only kid in the group who smokes pot, but he is strictly forbidden to show up at my house (game or not) baked. I'm not his dad (who smokes pot with him) so I can't dictate what he does in life, but in my house the front door works both ways. You act a fool and it gets shown to you. The other kids hassle him about it, too, so he's actually lightened up on it.
As long as everyone is enjoying the game, and the company of their friends, I don't care if they text, play hangman, drink, eat, chat or whatever.
My friends play to socialise, not to partake in how wonderful I am.